Online banking using a smartphone…

[Mala591]

Yes, I do have an online current account (via a smartphone app) and it’s VERY convenient to use but there are so many horror stories about accounts being hacked that I’m seriously considering going back to a non-online account however inconvenient it might be.

What would YOU do?

[South West Claret.]

I don’t trust online banking for the exact reasons that you give, I make sure that the bank I’m with has a counter service ie (real human beings).

Never looked back.

[claret2018]

What happens if the bank itself gets hacked? You’re better off keeping your wealth in gold bullion, buried in a location only you know.

[Devils_Advocate]

Yes, I do have an online current account (via a smartphone app) and it’s VERY convenient to use but there are so many horror stories about accounts being hacked that I’m seriously considering going back to a non-online account however inconvenient it might be.

What would YOU do?

You've nothing to worry about

[mdd2]

What happens if the bank itself gets hacked? You’re better off keeping your wealth in gold bullion, buried in a location only you know.
Problem with that in my case is I would forget where I buried it.

[CleggHall]

Online banking so convenient for making transfers, paying bills etc.
Don’t tell me you are using a chequebook and snails’ mail!

[Big Vinny K]

Yes, I do have an online current account (via a smartphone app) and it’s VERY convenient to use but there are so many horror stories about accounts being hacked that I’m seriously considering going back to a non-online account however inconvenient it might be.

What would YOU do?

It’s up to what you feel comfortable with of course.
But it’s not just online banking where fraud is being originated.
Are you going to stop online shopping too ?
Scam emails ?
Do you use contactless and presumably you have debit and or credit cards ?

There are some new regulations shortly coming in around Banks and how they need to treat customers who have experienced fraud and lost money. The new regs are very much on our side as customers and without going into all the detail it’s come about because the regulator felt the banks were trying to get out of paying too many cases of fraud. Can’t remember the exact figures but think it was going to increase customer redress levels from banks from around 70% of all cases to 95% so it really is a big change in the industry.

But as said initially it really is what makes you feel comfortable - it’s your money not the Banks !

[IanMcL]

I love it!
My phone is my entire administration method nowadays.
Online banking is super brill. No matter where you are, your money at your fingertips!

[basil6345789]

What happens if the bank itself gets hacked? You’re better off keeping your wealth in gold bullion, buried in a location only you know.

Best to keep most of your savings in Building Societies, in ISA's, etc and a much smaller amount of working brass in the Current Account, methinks

[ClaretAndJew]

What happens if money becomes unusable due to a nuclear war?

[dsr]

My main criterion is that I have someone to talk to. I have had to deal with routine issues with Amazon and with Virgin recently, and the hopps you have to jump through to contact an anonymous human are irritating to say the least. But neither of those two organisations hold any of my money. My money is going to be where there is a physical location that I can go into and talk to the staff.

[bfcjg]

I have been out with people whose batteries have run out, what then ? I on-line bank at home only.

[Boss Hogg]

Agree with above. A human being is needed as back up. Without one when things go wrong it can be very frustrating. I always wonder what people do who pay with their phone if they lose their phone ? Do they take cards and wallet as back up and if so why not just pay with them.

[Loyalclaret]

Agree with above. A human being is needed as back up. Without one when things go wrong it can be very frustrating. I always wonder what people do who pay with their phone if they lose their phone ? Do they take cards and wallet as back up and if so why not just pay with them.

Probably the same as those who pay with cash who lose their wallet - struggle.

[Lowbankclaret]

The app I use has alerts for amounts being paid that you the user can set. It sends me a text within seconds of payments of amount limits I have set.
Couple of weeks ago I was in a shop in town and bought two items , unfortunately he only charged me for one. So we had to put the second one through again. The bank blocked the second payment as it was for the exact same amount, it blocked contactless. I had then to put the card in and use the pin. They then texted me within 5 minutes to check I had made the payments.

Personally I think online or apps allow you to check your account instantly anywhere, some even allow you to block your card instantly.

Most times I do an online payment to places like Amazon it makes me authorise the payment within the app before allowing the transaction.

I think security has improved a lot over the years.

[Big Vinny K]

Security ironically tends to be better for the new start up banks than it does for the old traditional ones with rubbish legacy systems.
I use Chase and it’s without a doubt the best mobile app I have ever used (and I have used pretty much every Bank personal and business app).

[Neil]

Banks are closing branches at an alarming rate because they aren't really needed. My parents are in their mid seventies and bank online.

Security is pretty good on online banking on your phone and you should get an alert immediately if any unusual activity occurs on your account.
Most bank fraud comes from dodgy, fake call centres calling you and getting you to access your account while on the phone to them. You hear of these cases on tv shows all the time.

I did get my PayPal hacked a few years ago though. They knew it was a fraudulent transaction and told me that PayPal is very safe but if you use the same passwords for multiple accounts and one of them is hacked, they will try the password on every account you have from betting to amazon and everything else.

[SalisburyClaret]

You can make your online banking a lot safer by not using facebook etc
Why give hackers additional info about yourself

[ClaretAndJew]

Security ironically tends to be better for the new start up banks than it does for the old traditional ones with rubbish legacy systems.
I use Chase and it’s without a doubt the best mobile app I have ever used (and I have used pretty much every Bank personal and business app).

Chase is by far the best bank I have been with.

[Croydon Claret]

Given that I'm the team lead for the security layer of Lloyds Bank's online banking system then I guess I have to be in favour of it.

You shouldn't ever get hacked unless you've picked a guessable password or are reusing them. One major mistake that people make is reusing the same password across multiple sites. It just takes one of those not so secure sites to become compromised and somebody could have the password to your banking app.

Use a password management application e.g LastPass to generate random passwords for you. Never use anything that contains a dictionary word and don't think you're making your password secure by adding "!" at the end if forced to enter a special character. Everyone does that so it's a good starting point for hackers

Two factor authentication should help with ensuring your account's safety however there is a flaw in the plan - if somebody steals your phone then they also have access to that secondary authentication method. Somebody in the banking industry didn't think that through fully...

But overall if I'm happy it's secure then you should be.

[Westleigh]

Thi don’t like change in Burnley tha knows, Banking using iPad,or phone brilliant ,went into the bank last to draw a relatively small 5 figure some and the cheeky sod asked what I was doing ,also my sister inherited quite a large amount ( obviously hadn’t been laundered) again nosy bugger asking behind counter where it had come from.

[Mala591]

Chase is by far the best bank I have been with.

What is the current interest rate for a ‘standard/normal/everyday’ Chase savings account?

Thanks

[Devils_Advocate]

What is the current interest rate for a ‘standard/normal/everyday’ Chase savings account?

Thanks

Bank British

[Croydon Claret]

Thi don’t like change in Burnley tha knows, Banking using iPad,or phone brilliant ,went into the bank last to draw a relatively small 5 figure some and the cheeky sod asked what I was doing ,also my sister inherited quite a large amount ( obviously hadn’t been laundered) again nosy bugger asking behind counter where it had come from.

They have to ask you that if there's even the smallest amount of doubt.

It's a criminal offence under Anti Money Laundering regulations of the bank teller doesn't seek to alleviate any doubts, and nobody wants to take that risk.

We all have to watch incredibly boring videos every quarter to remind us of this, even those who don't deal with customers directly

[Claretprinter]

I recall reading an article on this where someones phone was stolen and they took the sim card out, inserted into their own phone to bypass the stolen phone biometrics and then accessing banking apps.

They said the best approach was to lock your sim card.

What this does is, if the sim card is put into a device, even back in the same device, it cannot work until the sim lock password is entered.

[Ptangyangkipperbang]

Thi don’t like change in Burnley tha knows, Banking using iPad,or phone brilliant ,went into the bank last to draw a relatively small 5 figure some and the cheeky sod asked what I was doing ,also my sister inherited quite a large amount ( obviously hadn’t been laundered) again nosy bugger asking behind counter where it had come from.

I still largely use cash in my business and the grief I'm getting from my bank is unbelievable since last September I have had to provide documents for who I am and what I do and nothing seems to please them.Each time I show proof of things a short while later they ring me up and seem to find something else for me to show it's frustrating to say the least and I'm convinced they are doing their best to either go cashless which for my line of work is unethical and too costly or to force me to pack up what I'm doing.My own humble opinion a totally cashless society won't work

[Tricky Trevor]

Spread the load. Credit Union for saving and over the counter service, bank for online ease, separate credit card settled every month.
Bank and credit card with unique password security not connected with anything in your daily life.
Credit card in a secure wallet.
Nobody is safe in this crazy world but doing your best to protect yourself is a good start.

[Westleigh]

They have to ask you that if there's even the smallest amount of doubt.

It's a criminal offence under Anti Money Laundering regulations of the bank teller doesn't seek to alleviate any doubts, and nobody wants to take that risk.

We all have to watch incredibly boring videos every quarter to remind us of this, even those who don't deal with customers directly

My sister’s cheque had come from the solicitor though.

[Croydon Claret]

My sister’s cheque had come from the solicitor though.

Probably being over cautious then but you get the general idea.

Nobody wants to take the risk now. It's safer to ask what might be a silly question than risk a tap on the shoulder later

[Big Vinny K]

My sister’s cheque had come from the solicitor though.

Doesn’t matter.
Any “unusual” transaction has to be questioned.
And unusual is defined as out of character with normal transactions on an account - so the amount is one of the big factors here.

Can’t believe that the solicitor sent a cheque tbh !!

[Paul Waine]

It’s up to what you feel comfortable with of course.
But it’s not just online banking where fraud is being originated.
Are you going to stop online shopping too ?
Scam emails ?
Do you use contactless and presumably you have debit and or credit cards ?

There are some new regulations shortly coming in around Banks and how they need to treat customers who have experienced fraud and lost money. The new regs are very much on our side as customers and without going into all the detail it’s come about because the regulator felt the banks were trying to get out of paying too many cases of fraud. Can’t remember the exact figures but think it was going to increase customer redress levels from banks from around 70% of all cases to 95% so it really is a big change in the industry.

But as said initially it really is what makes you feel comfortable - it’s your money not the Banks !

Isn't the biggest change making the second bank that the scammers move the scammed money to also responsible for the account holder's loss? For a long time that's always been the missing link in cutting down on the "push payment" frauds. So, a lot more banks will have to be much more careful about how they verify customer identities. It should also slow down the transmission of money from one customer's bank account to another's without a number of checks on the way.

[Big Vinny K]

Isn't the biggest change making the second bank that the scammers move the scammed money to also responsible for the account holder's loss? For a long time that's always been the missing link in cutting down on the "push payment" frauds. So, a lot more banks will have to be much more careful about how they verify customer identities. It should also slow down the transmission of money from one customer's bank account to another's without a number of checks on the way.

Don’t know the full details as not in banking sector now Paul. Just heard an interesting feature on it on Radio 4 last week and it sounds like a big change for bank fraud teams.

Not sure if you have made any payments that have been referred to a bank fraud team recently but the scripts they are using have definitely escalated into the ludicrous territory now. They repeat a lot of stuff and you are asked to say out loud that you are aware that you will lose the money if the payment ends up being fraudulent.

What I understand the regulator is saying now is that’s not necessarily enough to exonerate banks in the future. It was fast becoming a get out and way of avoiding further investment in fraud systems and resource.
If the 95% of all cases is accurate then this will be a massive change….but as said I don’t know the detail of what changes Banks need to bring in and how they deal with fraud in the future.

[South West Claret.]

Don’t know the full details as not in banking sector now Paul. Just heard an interesting feature on it on Radio 4 last week and it sounds like a big change for bank fraud teams.

Not sure if you have made any payments that have been referred to a bank fraud team recently but the scripts they are using have definitely escalated into the ludicrous territory now. They repeat a lot of stuff and you are asked to say out loud that you are aware that you will lose the money if the payment ends up being fraudulent.

What I understand the regulator is saying now is that’s not necessarily enough to exonerate banks in the future. It was fast becoming a get out and way of avoiding further investment in fraud systems and resource.
If the 95% of all cases is accurate then this will be a massive change….but as said I don’t know the detail of what changes Banks need to bring in and how they deal with fraud in the future.

Don’t get any of that stuff with the co-op you know

[Westleigh]

Doesn’t matter.
Any “unusual” transaction has to be questioned.
And unusual is defined as out of character with normal transactions on an account - so the amount is one of the big factors here.

Can’t believe that the solicitor sent a cheque tbh !!

I’m presuming it would be from her solicitor,she definitely physically put something in the bank,and it wasn’t 1/2 mill in used bank notes.

[Big Vinny K]

Don’t get any of that stuff with the co-op you know

You 100% do !!
That’s the bank I was referring to.

Of course you need to get one of your payments referred to the fraud team first to have to go through this. 99.9% of all payments don’t get referred.

[Croydon Claret]

You 100% do !!
That’s the bank I was referring to.

Of course you need to get one of your payments referred to the fraud team first to have to go through this. 99.9% of all payments don’t get referred.

I went to a Crystal Palace match with the Chairman of Co Op bank a couple of weeks ago

I could have challenged him on his fraud processes if I'd known

[Big Vinny K]

I went to a Crystal Palace match with the Chairman of Co Op bank a couple of weeks ago

I could have challenged him on his fraud processes if I'd known

As long as you didn’t go there with the ex chairman Paul
Flowers that’s ok !!!
If you don’t know Flowers then just be careful with your google search

[California Colner]

I’ve had no complaints with my on line bank
Any fees that get charged by other institutions I get back.
The only thing you can’t do is put cash into your account
But who has cash given to them nowadays, so that hasn’t been a problem. The bank is Charles Schwab

[Croydon Claret]

As long as you didn’t go there with the ex chairman Paul
Flowers that’s ok !!!
If you don’t know Flowers then just be careful with your google search

Wow. His Wiki page makes for some interesting reading

Current Chairman is my next door neighbour's brother

[Paul Waine]

Not sure if you have made any payments that have been referred to a bank fraud team recently but the scripts they are using have definitely escalated into the ludicrous territory now. They repeat a lot of stuff and you are asked to say out loud that you are aware that you will lose the money if the payment ends up being fraudulent.

Every payment I make is either through banking app or credit card. For a long time now the app always asks "reason for payment" and "has someone asked you to make this payment." App also notifies me every time I set up a new payee - and removes any payee I've not paid for a few months, so they again become a new payee. Credit card asks me very frequently to complete 2 factor verification. Also, frequently requires chip and pin rather than contactless for small amounts. Credit card hardly ever works contactless when I'm travelling abroad.

I love all the better security. It keeps us all safer.

[Jakubclaret]

Every payment I make is either through banking app or credit card. For a long time now the app always asks "reason for payment" and "has someone asked you to make this payment." App also notifies me every time I set up a new payee - and removes any payee I've not paid for a few months, so they again become a new payee. Credit card asks me very frequently to complete 2 factor verification. Also, frequently requires chip and pin rather than contactless for small amounts. Credit card hardly ever works contactless when I'm travelling abroad.

I love all the better security. It keeps us all safer.

That's been a standard thing for years well it is with barclays & before you send/submit you tick the box to agree that you are liable if it is a fraudulent purchase/transaction. As soon as the box is ticked there's no come back they are effectively waivering responsibility if it goes sh1t shaped. It's basic security measures that have been in existence for a long while.

[Big Vinny K]

Every payment I make is either through banking app or credit card. For a long time now the app always asks "reason for payment" and "has someone asked you to make this payment." App also notifies me every time I set up a new payee - and removes any payee I've not paid for a few months, so they again become a new payee. Credit card asks me very frequently to complete 2 factor verification. Also, frequently requires chip and pin rather than contactless for small amounts. Credit card hardly ever works contactless when I'm travelling abroad.

I love all the better security. It keeps us all safer.

Yep mine does all that too. Verification of payees as also been a good development for the industry

But on top of this all major banks will have a fraud monitoring system which sits beyond all the extra payment security, 2FA etc.

The fraud systems are basically rules based monitoring system which will throw out certain payments and hold these until you contact the bank. Sometimes this will be by way of confirming the payment is ok to go by text message but a lot of the time it involves ringing the fraud teams and going through a whole series of questions about the payment and why it is being made and confirming you are happy for the money to be sent and that you understand that you would lose the money if this ended up being a scam / fraudulent transaction. It’s all recorded too so it can be used if it does end up being fraudulent and you contact the bank to reclaim your money.

These payments are usually bigger transactions but the systems allow you to write different rules for different types of accounts, individual customers etc etc. So it’s not a case of all payments of day £10k or above to a new payee get held for all customers.
There’s also some clever rules incorporated based on historical scammers behaviours (but this is always an ongoing progress as the scammers come up with new things). One of these for example is somebody setting up a new payee and making a couple of small payments of a few quid and then following it up with a bigger payment - many fraud systems will detect this pattern and allow the smaller payments through and hold the bigger one.

Around 20 years ago I led a piece of work in building one of these unusual transaction monitoring systems for the bank fraud team and it’s still basically the same thing in use today (but with many new rules and new things to consider)

[Big Vinny K]

As soon as the box is ticked there's no come back they are effectively waivering responsibility if it goes sh1t shaped.

That’s incorrect.
I don’t want to get in a debate with you so please don’t reply to me. I’ve vowed to try and ignore you from now.
I’m only replying now because I would not want anyone to believe what you have posted and not try and reclaim monies from their bank if they got scammed.

[Croydon Claret]

We know what each individual customer's typical usage pattern is. The vast majority just logon to look at their account balance and that's it.

I won't say what systems are in place but anything outside of your norm will not go unnoticed

[Westleigh]

I presume banks work like credit card comps,I bought an iPhone off Smart Cellular and it cost £320,as soon as I got it I found a fault ,send it back and 6 weeks later no phone or money back ,got onto my credit card comp ,they refunded the full amount and never spoke to a person.

[Big Vinny K]

He just could not help himself could he
He’d be dangerous if he had half a brain - luckily he hasn’t even got that.

[Jakubclaret]

Yes banks just fall over & are happy to refund customers when they are being scammed & don't have any mechanisms in place to protect the customer & themselves from fraud.

[ClaretAndJew]

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt- ... and-fraud/

"Getting your money back
Your bank should refund any money stolen from you as a result of fraud and identity theft. They should do this as soon as possible - ideally by the end of the next working day after you report the problem."

[DCWat]

Yes banks just fall over & are happy to refund customers when they are being scammed & don't have any mechanisms in place to protect the customer & themselves from fraud.

Are you talking about a section 75? This, as far as I understand it, isn’t actually a refund, but a ‘clawback’ from the seller, actioned by the bank.

I’m not sure that anyone has suggested that banks happily refund customers they deem to be committing fraud.

Whenever the situation has arisen (unusual or high transaction(s)). I’ve always been impressed by how on the ball my bank seems to be. Firstly with blocking the transaction and secondly by proceeding with it once the appropriate checks have been undertaken.

[Jakubclaret]

Are you talking about a section 75? This, as far as I understand it, isn’t actually a refund, but a ‘clawback’ from the seller, actioned by the bank.

I’m not sure that anyone has suggested that banks happily refund customers they deem to be committing fraud.

Whenever the situation has arisen (unusual or high transaction(s)). I’ve always been impressed by how on the ball my bank seems to be. Firstly with blocking the transaction and secondly by proceeding with it once the appropriate checks have been undertaken.

Yes of course me as well & long may that continue. Refund or whichever way you choose to describe it, means to me something has been taken & as been replaced. Like I said I would not be confident trying to get my money back if I'd ticked that box. I'm surprised I'm having to argue something which should be common sense.