Conscription

[JohnMac]

Completely impractical in this day and age in this Country. I served for a shade under 24 years with some bloody good and some not so good lads but they all at some point wanted to be there though.

How do you conscript an 18 year old IT wizard who makes £5k a month for example running his on line business and offer him a chance to get cold, wet, tired, physically challenged and possibly sent abroad to fight for something he has no interest in whatsoever as well as paying him far less.

Never mind the professional welfare state mob who couldn't be ars*d to turn up.

The days of Lord of the Manor influencing the peasantry are long gone and a return to conscription would probably be the trigger for civil unrest.

Add to this it includes young ladies as well as men.

[Funkydrummer]

John, if nobody fought, your IT wizard wouldn't have his job for very long I would suggest.

[CoolClaret]

It's rather ironic to hear British Boomers label Millennials as 'soft' for not wanting to potentially be conscripted, you know, the generation that had 0 major conflicts and every opportunity afforded to them.

See job postings wanting STEM grads - even Master's level offering salaries as low as 25K, inflation up, house prices through the roof and then you wonder why people may be a bit averse for wanting to get shelled fighting for this nation that's offered them?!?!

Pay soldiers good money and there'll be soldiers and good ones at that - not rocket science, is it?

Spend enough £££ on things way down on the list of priorities.

Massive respect to anyone that served btw - especially the poor sods that were conscripted back in the Two World Wars

[karatekid]

Won't happen.
didn't I hear this sort of stuff at the time of the Falklands tiff?

Tiff?

255 British soldiers died with another 770 injured. 649 Argentinian soldiers died.

Tiff?

[Damo]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when some of the limp wristed folk who can't get enough of the war in Ukraine, get a knock on the door to go and fight the Russians

[Jakubclaret]

Can you volunteer to stay in prison for a few months? You’ll be able to enjoy the cushy lifestyle and it’ll be an added bonus for us, everyone’s a winner.

Only if we can share the same cell & I'll even give you choice of bunk because the world wouldn't be the same for me without your scintillating conversation.

[ArmchairDetective]

I believe the latest figures showed that 25% of this nations population are not British. I can’t imagine any of them would be willing to fight a war for Britain

I think you're confusing nationality with ethnicity? The population of the UK is around 75% White British, leaving 25% not White British which I think you refer to. If you include British Asian, Black British, Mixed British etc then the population is around 85-90% British.

[mdd2]

See job postings wanting STEM grads - even Master's level offering salaries as low as 25K, inflation up, house prices through the roof and then you wonder why people may be a bit averse for wanting to get shelled fighting for this nation that's offered them?!?!

"ask not what can my country do for me, but what can I do for my country"
This country offers to its people more than it can afford hence the £2.7 trillion over spend largely from the banking crisis and Covid.
Our NHS and pensions are probably the 2 biggest drain on our resources not the armed forces where we spend very little compared with those two sacred cows.

[ArmchairDetective]

If we have to rely on the millenials of today to fight for the country we may as well throw the towel in now.

As a millennial I think I agree with you. I think many people of my generation have become disillusioned with the political and moral compass of the voting UK public, and the subsequent degradation of our generations' rights and opportunities. As a result I'm not sure that national pride is there in our generation. Couple that with a general stance of 'anti-war' in younger people that isn't exclusive to our country, and I'm not sure you'll see many people my age happily going to fight for a country which they feel has thrown them under the bus for their entire adult lives until you see scenes akin to Ukraine happening in our own back yard.

[evensteadiereddie]

An excellent post, Armchair.

[evensteadiereddie]

See job postings wanting STEM grads - even Master's level offering salaries as low as 25K, inflation up, house prices through the roof and then you wonder why people may be a bit averse for wanting to get shelled fighting for this nation that's offered them?!?!

"ask not what can my country do for me, but what can I do for my country"
This country offers to its people more than it can afford hence the £2.7 trillion over spend largely from the banking crisis and Covid.
Our NHS and pensions are probably the 2 biggest drain on our resources not the armed forces where we spend very little compared with those two sacred cows.

They are hardly a drain but, yes, quite right too that armed forces spending is relatively low.
The days of this plucky little island fending off all comers are long gone.

[bfcjg]

Hope we never have a world war or war involving the mass mobilisation of British people however if we did I'd worry about the attitude of a lot of young people who were brought up to believe everything should stop if it snows,you can't climb a tree until it has been risked assessed etc.

[AlargeClaret]

Not sure who is directly behind the almost hysterical and ludicrous headlines of the “ if Russia invade “ “ in the event of ww3” etc though looks to be a mix of inane Tory desperation allied to our poor army recruitment numbers .

While RUS will never ever be our friends , they’re not really our “enemy” per se . They’ve no intention of ever invading NATO countries , though they always wanted UKR “ back. There’s a real feel to this of “ The West /US” trying to justify a new gargantuan funding exercise due to the failure of UKR/NATO to kick RUS out of UKR and end a possible long war of stalemate attrition .

[TheFamilyCat]

A dad's army led by Tommy Robinson.

[winsomeyen]

I would donate my conscription to Charlie,Andrew and Hewitts lad,they must have hundreds of medals between them.

[Kilson810]

Just done 12 years in the military so no thanks to any more!

I will let the politicians send their kids in the first wave and I'll keep an eye on the country whilst they are gone.

[mikeS]

The rise in dictatorships - China, Russia, North Korea - across the globe is worrying to say the least. You have to wonder why Americans would vote another one in this November after the carnage he caused last time.

[Bordeauxclaret]

The good news is I’m pretty sure you can still avoid being called up by claiming you have a bone spur.

[evensteadiereddie]

Hope we never have a world war or war involving the mass mobilisation of British people however if we did I'd worry about the attitude of a lot of young people who were brought up to believe everything should stop if it snows,you can't climb a tree until it has been risked assessed etc.

That's not true though, is it?
I think what's more likely is that the kids you mention, quite rightly, would say why the hell should they do what some self serving conniving bunch of politicians recommend?

[getbennyon]

The rise in dictatorships - China, Russia, North Korea - across the globe is worrying to say the least. You have to wonder why Americans would vote another one in this November after the carnage he caused last time.

The same thing in this country, although unlike Russia/China our uniparty system despises its own. There will be military conflict on our soil but it's too late to stop the enemy as they are already here.

[Shaggy]

The rise in dictatorships - China, Russia, North Korea - across the globe is worrying to say the least. You have to wonder why Americans would vote another one in this November after the carnage he caused last time.

Strange when you speak to any American they all agree DT done a good job last time. I mean you only have to look at the carnage the Biden Admin has caused since. The establishment detest him and are throwing as much nonsense as they can at him yet it’s only making him stronger.

[RicardoMontalban]

Strange when you speak to any American they all agree DT done a good job last time. I mean you only have to look at the carnage the Biden Admin has caused since. The establishment detest him and are throwing as much nonsense as they can at him yet it’s only making him stronger.

All Americans.

Let’s get this right, DT has a significant level of support for sure, and he has a stranglehold on the GOP at least, but the country is more divided than at any time since the 1860’s and there is just as much opposition and revulsion to him.

Sweeping comments like yours just come across as a kool-aid overdose.

[Swizzlestick]

Only if we can share the same cell & I'll even give you choice of bunk because the world wouldn't be the same for me without your scintillating conversation.

Same cell? Take me to the Tower, please.

[bfcjg]

That's not true though, is it?
I think what's more likely is that the kids you mention, quite rightly, would say why the hell should they do what some self serving conniving bunch of politicians recommend?

I've relations who teach, I've kids and grandkids, I've done numerous projects in numerous schools, the H&S red-tape is stifling, it's one of the main gripes.
It's not the kids fault .

[South West Claret.]

This subject seems to be plastered all over the press this morning so please file under Tabloid cobbles

[Pearcey]

It’s quite interesting reading some of these comments. I served for 26 years and loved it. The only time I’d don a uniform again would be in a Dads Army scenario where we were expecting an invasion. I believe that most people from any generation would want to stick up for themselves and their families.

Also, the forces are full of youngsters who are more than up for it. A generation that are IT savvy is a good thing moving forward.

However, national service would be a terrible idea.

[boatshed bill]

Yes, I appreciate that. And they were needlessly killed due to an arguement over a small bunch of rocks.

My post was really more about the suggestion of conscription.

[KRBFC]

I work in Frankfurt for a video game company split into two main parts, one in Frankfurt and one in Kyiv. Quite a lot of my colleagues over in Ukraine avoided joining the fighting because it isn't mandatory conscription (yet) and they were aware enough of their own physicalities to understand that they likely wouldn't be much help or might even get in the way, but quite a few of them actually volunteered (and some still do) with the territorial defense forces.

Some of the **** they've told me would make your blood run cold, but each and every one of them said they felt they made the right choice because of the "enemy at the gates" element of it. It's pretty surreal seeing a colleague, who you've known for a few years and only met over Zoom calls, joining a call and instead of wearing their trademark t-shirt and hoodie they're wearing urban camo fatigues.

I don't know how I'd react in that situation, I like to think I'd avoid fighting altogether, but then if the "enemy at the gates" comes knocking I think that's only a choice you'll ever know if you're capable of making it in the heat of the moment.

Sure as hell wouldn't do it willingly for the Tories though...

Pretty cowardly to run from your country.

[daveisaclaret]

What's really scary imo is that the conscription story is obviously a lot of confected nonsense made up by someone who wanted attention, the OP points that out, and still the majority treat it like a legitimate proposal. Where is your media literacy and your critical thinking?

[Pearcey]

What's really scary imo is that the conscription story is obviously a lot of confected nonsense made up by someone who wanted attention, the OP points that out, and still the majority treat it like a legitimate proposal. Where is your media literacy and your critical thinking?

I think most are aware of that aren’t they? It’s a hypothetical question that people are responding to.

[daveisaclaret]

I think most are aware of that aren’t they? It’s a hypothetical question that people are responding to.

Maybe I'm being too literal but I think all of the posting about it not being possible/practical and about why conscription is wrong are not answers to a hypothetical.

[TheFamilyCat]

I think most are aware of that aren’t they? It’s a hypothetical question that people are responding to.

So it's not happening? I've just been down to Boyce's to get kitted out.

[JohnMac]

MSN has started feeding in what will happen to you if you refuse to comply with Conscription. Amazing how much influence the media will
impart on the gullible.

[jedi_master]

In the utterly hypothetical situation unfolding, I think as a married 37 year old Dad of a 6 year old girl, I would judge based on the situation. If we were legitimately being invaded or there was a fundamental risk to my families safety, then yes - I would do what was asked of me as long as the likes of Sunak, Starmer, Cleverley, Schapps, Prince William, Tyson Fury, Ant, Dec, Simon Cowell and Trent Alexander-Arnold were doing the same (my banter is assuming there was no age cap - I believe it went up to 51 by the end of WW2 after initially being 40?).

If this was to go to foreign shores to fend off the Russians (i.e, in Poland, or whatever)? Nah, you're alright. Judge me as you please.

[aggi]

Strange when you speak to any American they all agree DT done a good job last time. I mean you only have to look at the carnage the Biden Admin has caused since. The establishment detest him and are throwing as much nonsense as they can at him yet it’s only making him stronger.

Spoiler: Shaggy has not spoken to many, if any, Americans about this.

[BigGaz]

I think you are looking at this wrong not necessarily about your country although yes that would be a factor, it would be mostly about protecting your Family surely? Not sure it will ever happen but the initial conscription would be people who are still on regular reserve there must be several thousand I finished my 22 years in 2013 I am into my 50s and I am still getting my reserves liability letter for example.

Hypothetically if we were to get to conscription of Civilians who have never served before I am not sure people will have decision to make it is likely to be enforced.

It's a fair point, but the first choice I would lean towards when considering how to protect my family would be getting us all out of the country. Preferably somewhere warm and safe, but would take anywhere safe.

[elwaclaret]

The rise in dictatorships - China, Russia, North Korea - across the globe is worrying to say the least. You have to wonder why Americans would vote another one in this November after the carnage he caused last time.

America has history: protectionism has been a vote winner in the states. The island mentality is visible on the build up to both World Wars… NOT OUR WAR, it’s Europe’s War used to stay out of both World Wars… until the realisation finally hits home that America cannot survive as an Island of democracy, eventually when Europe is dealt with and they need help… there is no one left to help.

Wishful thinking has never made a good defence. Why the call for conscription… because of generations of politicians have taken defence for granted. Now with Europe splintering and America more interested in walling themselves in; the rise of nationalism has developed into modern imperialism… among a generation where history has been rubbished as a necessary subject, leading to vast levels of ignorance about how these things snowball, has created the perfect storm where dictators feel empowered and free to indulge their lust for ever increasing power.

If the world does not wake up and fails to deal with this in the next couple of years we will continue on the current path to the third world war.

[Hipper]

The comments that initiated this debate seems to be by a soon to be retired army General:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ght-russia

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... ry-service

Generally, the closer Europeans are to Russia the more likely they have some form of military service.

Poland is expanding its armed forces and is discussing conscription - it may have enacted a law on the subject according to this source:

https://bnnbreaking.com/politics/poland ... in-europe/

People that think Russia will stop if they succeed in Ukraine need to look at history, notably how WW2 came about. We may have a nuclear deterrent but how far does someone go before you threaten and then actually use it.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... ng-ukraine

Falklands: I reckon we are in a better position to defend the Falklands then we were in 1982 and Argentina, though slowly re-arming, is in a worse one. I doubt they are capable of invading the Falklands and if they attempt it it would be a disaster for them.

Finally it is right that defence people should assess the threats to the UK and make proposals, no matter how awkward, to try to mitigate those threats. This General though should not have done it in public.

[Sutton-Claret]

Sorry Sutton but it wasn’t that long ago that the millennials well probably just before that were fighting bravely in Afghanistan and Iraq. I have heard this type of comment a lot over the years about several generations including my own but when push came to shove the right people stood up to be counted.

I'm talking about the ones who get offended for using the wrong pronouns

[elwaclaret]

The comments that initiated this debate seems to be by a soon to be retired army General:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ght-russia

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... ry-service

Generally, the closer Europeans are to Russia the more likely they have some form of military service.

Poland is expanding its armed forces and is discussing conscription - it may have enacted a law on the subject according to this source:

https://bnnbreaking.com/politics/poland ... in-europe/

People that think Russia will stop if they succeed in Ukraine need to look at history, notably how WW2 came about. We may have a nuclear deterrent but how far does someone go before you threaten and then actually use it.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... ng-ukraine

Falklands: I reckon we are in a better position to defend the Falklands then we were in 1982 and Argentina, though slowly re-arming, is in a worse one. I doubt they are capable of invading the Falklands and if they attempt it it would be a disaster for them.

Finally it is right that defence people should assess the threats to the UK and make proposals, no matter how awkward, to try to mitigate those threats. This General though should not have done it in public.

Fully agree this has suddenly broke the surface and public knowledge… but discussions about this have been going on for years in Humanities departments… and History departments have stressed imperialism and the rise of nationalism. The politicians (most have studied history) hate bad news seeping out, so have been closing Humanities departments and rubbishing their outputs for the last twenty years

[Andreshotboots]

I'd assume considering this PC, inclusive World we now live in that fighting age females will also be called up and required to fight?

[elwaclaret]

I'd assume considering this PC, inclusive World we now live in that fighting age females will also be called up and required to fight?

I think you are being optimistic assuming there will be a fighting age, let alone questioning if women will be expected to be ready to fight. It is pretty certain unless the world wakes up there will be no where to hide from this.

[Paul Waine]

The comments that initiated this debate seems to be by a soon to be retired army General:

This General though should not have done it in public.

As I understand it, the General wasn't making the speech in public. However, his speech was leaked and press were very keen to get access to the event where he was going to speak.

About 10 years ago I was involved in an "Energy Risk" conference in London. In addition to presentations on energy price risk, credit risk, operational risk, climate change we had a speaker who would speak about more "geopolitical risks." He was a retired senior military officer, saw service in Falklands, worked in MoD before retiring. One of the people the media/BBC etc go to for a quote on occasions. He spoke about Russia, China, North Korea and what those countries were doing. I think Russia had already invaded Crimea. He said Putin wouldn't stop there. He spoke about China building influence across much of Africa and South America and, of course, China's ambitions re Taiwan. The conference had a broad spread of energy people and nationalities attending, including Chinese energy companies (PetroIneos, for example, Grangemouth is 50% Chinese) and Russian (Gazprom). I found it pretty scary stuff, most of the people at the conference knew each other as friends.

So far as I remember, none of his presentation was picked up by the media 10 years ago.

[Anonymous Claret]

What's really scary imo is that the conscription story is obviously a lot of confected nonsense made up by someone who wanted attention, the OP points that out, and still the majority treat it like a legitimate proposal. Where is your media literacy and your critical thinking?

Did you miss the bits where the OP asked people what their sentiment on the idea was or where he asked how people would react if conscription was brought in?

In the OP's initial statement when he asked what 'people's sentiment was' I presumed that he meant sentiment on conscription and not on the self seeking lunatic who proposed the idea. If the OP meant the latter it wasn't very clear in the opening post

The OP then shares a little of his own personal experience along with his 'hypothetical' personal thoughts about why he would rather rot in jail than be conscripted.

He then asks how people of conscription age would react if conscription was brought in.

It's a message board where people share their thoughts and opinions, especially after the OP has asked for feedback from the board. Conscription is a subject that divides a lot of people's opinion which is why there have been many responses to the OP and the questions that he asked.

I

[daveisaclaret]

Did you miss the bits where the OP asked people what their sentiment on the idea was or where he asked how people would react if conscription was brought in?

Nope

[Anonymous Claret]

Nope

What did you expect then?

[elwaclaret]

It's a fair point, but the first choice I would lean towards when considering how to protect my family would be getting us all out of the country. Preferably somewhere warm and safe, but would take anywhere safe.

Good luck finding somewhere safe when the East, far East and Africa unite against the West and democracy…

[daveisaclaret]

What did you expect then?

I expected the many interesting posts from people giving their views on conscription, and I think it is silly that there are also posts which treat this as a genuine suggestion/possibility. I thought I had been pretty clear about it.

[elwaclaret]

I expected the many interesting posts from people giving their views on conscription, and I think it is silly that there are also posts which treat this as a genuine suggestion/possibility. I thought I had been pretty clear about it.

I think you need to look around at what is happening in the world, it is unlikely Britain will be given much choice about ‘joining in’

[alboclaret]

If we have to rely on the millenials of today to fight for the country we may as well throw the towel in now.

Pure ignorance.