Belgium VAR
Belgium VAR
Genk have won an appeal against a VAR error in their game against Anderlecht, it will now be replayed.....we may have a fixture pile up this summer across the premier league
These 5 users liked this post: Dark Cloud bfcjg NewClaret Vegas Claret IanMcL
-
- Posts: 67902
- Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
- Been Liked: 32546 times
- Has Liked: 5279 times
- Location: Burnley
- Contact:
Re: Belgium VAR
That’s one hell of a concerning route to go down
-
- Posts: 13518
- Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
- Been Liked: 3115 times
- Has Liked: 3836 times
Re: Belgium VAR
It is, but justified in some cases, I think.
I actually think if this level of recourse existed VAR officials might think more carefully about some decisions.
In my view the Luton decision was a farce and VAR just didn’t apply the rules of the game. We’d have a good case on that one… although whether a replay would achieve a better result is a different question.
Re: Belgium VAR
It could lead to the end of VAR with any luck if clubs start appealing bad decisions and winning.
This user liked this post: NewClaret
-
- Posts: 9337
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:48 pm
- Been Liked: 4108 times
- Has Liked: 6591 times
- Location: Burnley
Re: Belgium VAR
With a bit of luck, the wronged teams in the PL will follow suit, with the end result being we go back to how things were before the cluster **** that is VAR destroyed our enjoyment of the game.
Unlikely though…. Far too many people and far too much money invested in it now.
Unlikely though…. Far too many people and far too much money invested in it now.
These 2 users liked this post: NewClaret Stproc
-
- Posts: 3604
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:05 am
- Been Liked: 2625 times
- Has Liked: 1 time
Re: Belgium VAR
Crazy that they’re doing this. Over a 23rd minute disallowed penalty over encroachment. Wouldn’t even make the top 20 bad VAR calls in our league.
Hopefully it sets a precedent and we see it happening in the Prem and Champions League, then everyone accepts it’s ludicrous and killing the game and we can bin the whole thing.
Hopefully it sets a precedent and we see it happening in the Prem and Champions League, then everyone accepts it’s ludicrous and killing the game and we can bin the whole thing.
These 3 users liked this post: bobinho Dark Cloud Foshiznik
-
- Posts: 4075
- Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:40 pm
- Been Liked: 1508 times
- Has Liked: 581 times
Re: Belgium VAR
Pretty astonishing decision. Liverpool’s VAR error with the Diaz goal was far worse than this so you wonder where this is going to lead.
Re: Belgium VAR
Get rid of VAR but keep the goal line technology only.
Let's go back to referees making the right decisions and sometimes the wrong decisions.
Let's go back to referees making the right decisions and sometimes the wrong decisions.
These 9 users liked this post: Shappie bobinho Whitgord Buxtonclaret AfloatinClaret bfcjg Dark Cloud aclaretinstevenage Goodclaret
-
- Posts: 30717
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
- Been Liked: 11060 times
- Has Liked: 5663 times
- Location: clue is in the title
Re: Belgium VAR
It's the complete opposite of concerning. As it stands I think we all know that they don't know how to operate it, it's also been proven by Bath University that the line drawing isn't fit for purpose (to a laughable degree). Until the technology catches up it's pointless. Congrats to those in Belgium, hope someone here decides to go down that route pronto. I nominate Wolves, they can have about 8 games replayed.
-
- Posts: 5900
- Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:40 pm
- Been Liked: 1772 times
- Has Liked: 359 times
- Location: The Banana Stand
Re: Belgium VAR
When we played in the Championship, I didn't miss it one bit.
I'm bored talking about it every week. I repeat here that ‘I don't know the rules anymore’ because there's a different outcome to the same decisions, and refs and pundits justify the decision after everyone agreed on the opposite outcome in a different game.
Let's have three years without it again and see how we get on.
I'm bored talking about it every week. I repeat here that ‘I don't know the rules anymore’ because there's a different outcome to the same decisions, and refs and pundits justify the decision after everyone agreed on the opposite outcome in a different game.
Let's have three years without it again and see how we get on.
These 7 users liked this post: RammyClaret61 ArmchairDetective longsidepies Buxtonclaret mkmel bfcjg Goodclaret
-
- Posts: 1229
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:16 am
- Been Liked: 404 times
- Has Liked: 374 times
Re: Belgium VAR
This Premier League season would never end. For the big clubs anyway. Not a chance we'd ever be given a replay.
Re: Belgium VAR
Of course we would. Every time we pick up a point.ArmchairDetective wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:16 amThis Premier League season would never end. For the big clubs anyway. Not a chance we'd ever be given a replay.
These 2 users liked this post: ArmchairDetective spt_claret
-
- Posts: 797
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2022 11:28 pm
- Been Liked: 420 times
- Has Liked: 69 times
Re: Belgium VAR
If there was no VAR we'd still have drawn with Luton as the on field officials gave the goal.
We'd have beaten Forest though, and Foster wouldn't have been banned.
We'd have beaten Forest though, and Foster wouldn't have been banned.
-
- Posts: 18102
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:35 am
- Been Liked: 3875 times
- Has Liked: 2073 times
Re: Belgium VAR
Too be fair, Everton got to replay their game against Crystal Palace the other week after DCL got sent off, wrongly by VAR.
They even let Everton play the replay at Goodison as an apology gift.
They even let Everton play the replay at Goodison as an apology gift.
-
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:21 pm
- Been Liked: 196 times
- Has Liked: 407 times
Re: Belgium VAR
You have got trust the honesty and integrity of the referee and his assistants and do away with VAR.
Bad decisions will be made but honest human ones.
The game will flow as it was meant to, without waiting ages as to whether it was a goal, offside, foul, red card, handball, obstruction etc etc.
Also good talking points at the end of the game..good or bad.
Bad decisions will be made but honest human ones.
The game will flow as it was meant to, without waiting ages as to whether it was a goal, offside, foul, red card, handball, obstruction etc etc.
Also good talking points at the end of the game..good or bad.
These 3 users liked this post: AfloatinClaret mkmel Goodclaret
Re: Belgium VAR
It's not the VAR it is the application.
These 2 users liked this post: bumba spt_claret
-
- Posts: 1229
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:16 am
- Been Liked: 404 times
- Has Liked: 374 times
Re: Belgium VAR
I agree with the application. The way it was used in the 2018 world cup worked very well. Since then the Premier League has somehow taken it and made a right mess of it. No wonder people have theories about bias etc.
But football was far more fun without VAR. Second guessing whether you can celebrate a goal is not the football I know and love.
These 2 users liked this post: IanMcL Dark Cloud
Re: Belgium VAR
Yeah but without the safety net of VAR maybe the ref would been a big enough boy to make his own decision?distortiondave wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 8:23 amIf there was no VAR we'd still have drawn with Luton as the on field officials gave the goal.
We'd have beaten Forest though, and Foster wouldn't have been banned.
-
- Posts: 5900
- Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:40 pm
- Been Liked: 1772 times
- Has Liked: 359 times
- Location: The Banana Stand
Re: Belgium VAR
Goals bring ruled out because of the tiniest issues. Especially when none of the players complain frustrates me.
Re: Belgium VAR
I was in favour of VAR given how many times we had been on the wrong end of ref decisions (to suit those particular clubs). Sadly, the Prem has used it to ensure those same clubs prevail. Two bites of the cherry to ensure the 'prem' outcome.ArmchairDetective wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 9:39 amI agree with the application. The way it was used in the 2018 world cup worked very well. Since then the Premier League has somehow taken it and made a right mess of it. No wonder people have theories about bias etc.
But football was far more fun without VAR. Second guessing whether you can celebrate a goal is not the football I know and love.
These 2 users liked this post: aclaretinstevenage spt_claret
-
- Been Liked: 1 time
- Has Liked: 836 times
Re: Belgium VAR
Refereeing in football needs a radical rethink imo. Discussing decisions just takes over the whole game and you barely speak about the quality of players anymore.
Sheff united v West Ham was a prime example the other week, the whole game just boiled down to two refereeing decisions and that decided the outcome, not the quality of the players.
Sheff united v West Ham was a prime example the other week, the whole game just boiled down to two refereeing decisions and that decided the outcome, not the quality of the players.
Re: Belgium VAR
A referee in each half would work so they can.keep up with play,just let VAR decide on corners and throw ins.
-
- Posts: 67902
- Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
- Been Liked: 32546 times
- Has Liked: 5279 times
- Location: Burnley
- Contact:
Re: Belgium VAR
you are right on that game with two shocking decisions going in Sheffield United's favour right at the end but I'd hate the day when matches were replayed because of decisions made by referees.Kilson810 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 10:08 amRefereeing in football needs a radical rethink imo. Discussing decisions just takes over the whole game and you barely speak about the quality of players anymore.
Sheff united v West Ham was a prime example the other week, the whole game just boiled down to two refereeing decisions and that decided the outcome, not the quality of the players.
-
- Posts: 8155
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
- Been Liked: 3084 times
- Has Liked: 5066 times
- Location: Catterick N.Yorks
Re: Belgium VAR
Getting rid of VAR doesn't stop the bad decisions, it only makes it worse.
VAR has provided proof that the only way to stop bad decisions is to get rid of the referees that make them.
They have a difficult job, made harder by a bunch of cheating players. And close calls will always create disagreement, but for those blatantly obvious bad calls there has to be a price for the incompetent.
VAR has provided proof that the only way to stop bad decisions is to get rid of the referees that make them.
They have a difficult job, made harder by a bunch of cheating players. And close calls will always create disagreement, but for those blatantly obvious bad calls there has to be a price for the incompetent.
-
- Posts: 1314
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:02 am
- Been Liked: 269 times
- Has Liked: 161 times
Re: Belgium VAR
How would the financing of these replayed games work?
Seems unfair the clubs and supporters having all the expense of having the game replayed. If the costs were met by the FA for VAR errors we would soon see them getting things right at the time of the initial review.
Seems unfair the clubs and supporters having all the expense of having the game replayed. If the costs were met by the FA for VAR errors we would soon see them getting things right at the time of the initial review.
-
- Been Liked: 1 time
- Has Liked: 836 times
Re: Belgium VAR
Yeah that would be shocking for fans. We need a real in-depth look at how we referee professional matches with radical changes imo. Look at other sports, see what they do right and wrong and learn from it.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 10:34 amyou are right on that game with two shocking decisions going in Sheffield United's favour right at the end but I'd hate the day when matches were replayed because of decisions made by referees.
Games are worth millions of pounds and ultimately they rest on the opinions of one ref out in the middle doing the best that they can. VAR doesn't help them nearly enough.
Re: Belgium VAR
I also agree a large part of the problem is about how it's being applied.
You only need to listen to the audio footage they release to be able to identify issues with it. They carry a bias in to every decision. The clear and obvious thing needs doing away with first in my opinion, if it's not the correct decision then it's clear and obvious. There should be independent people inside reviewing the footage, and they should all be of the same rank (so there can be no "rank" pulling).
I'd also give power back to the officials on the pitch to some degree, I'd ask them to review the footage again for another look as opposed to saying, "that's handball send him off". I'd even ask him to review the odd one that I thought was correct, just so the ref knows he can stick with his decision and doesn't need to overturn somthing just because VAR have asked for a relook.
It needs some big changes but the reality is having a team of people review the footage and report the correct interpretation of the rules should not be half as hard as we are making it imo.
You only need to listen to the audio footage they release to be able to identify issues with it. They carry a bias in to every decision. The clear and obvious thing needs doing away with first in my opinion, if it's not the correct decision then it's clear and obvious. There should be independent people inside reviewing the footage, and they should all be of the same rank (so there can be no "rank" pulling).
I'd also give power back to the officials on the pitch to some degree, I'd ask them to review the footage again for another look as opposed to saying, "that's handball send him off". I'd even ask him to review the odd one that I thought was correct, just so the ref knows he can stick with his decision and doesn't need to overturn somthing just because VAR have asked for a relook.
It needs some big changes but the reality is having a team of people review the footage and report the correct interpretation of the rules should not be half as hard as we are making it imo.
-
- Posts: 1076
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:44 pm
- Been Liked: 543 times
- Has Liked: 1514 times
Re: Belgium VAR
VAR has to go. It has drained the enjoyment of attending live PL games now. The celebration of your team scoring a goal is (in my opinion) one of the main reasons you go to a game. That euphoria has been taken away for 90% of goals.
I was all in favour of it as I thought we, Burnley, would gain that lost advantage of being a small team. Arsenal throwing balls in to our net would be a thing of the past. Arsenal players throwing themselves on the floor to win pens was going to disappear. The live, on field decisions were so frustrating but the now 5 or 6 minute delays in still getting to the wrong decision is far more frustrating and leads to the possibility/accusation of corruptness of the ref's.
Get VAR in the bin.
I was all in favour of it as I thought we, Burnley, would gain that lost advantage of being a small team. Arsenal throwing balls in to our net would be a thing of the past. Arsenal players throwing themselves on the floor to win pens was going to disappear. The live, on field decisions were so frustrating but the now 5 or 6 minute delays in still getting to the wrong decision is far more frustrating and leads to the possibility/accusation of corruptness of the ref's.
Get VAR in the bin.
-
- Posts: 30717
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
- Been Liked: 11060 times
- Has Liked: 5663 times
- Location: clue is in the title
Re: Belgium VAR
It's been proved by Bath University that they cannot draw the lines accurately. They also cannot draw the lines accurately - why do they draw the lines on where the player 'could' be offside but NEVER bother looking at the accuracy of when the player plays the ball. It's complete and utter made up bullshit and needs ditching until it's accurate for at least the line drawing.
This user liked this post: Rick_Muller
Re: Belgium VAR
I don't think that being on or off by a toenail/big nose/long hair etc is in the spirit of the game. I am in favour of torso only and wouldn't object to clear daylight to be offside, as that would mean more goals and eradicate the 'when did it leave the passers boot' rubbish.Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 3:08 pmIt's been proved by Bath University that they cannot draw the lines accurately. They also cannot draw the lines accurately - why do they draw the lines on where the player 'could' be offside but NEVER bother looking at the accuracy of when the player plays the ball. It's complete and utter made up bullshit and needs ditching until it's accurate for at least the line drawing.
-
- Posts: 30717
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
- Been Liked: 11060 times
- Has Liked: 5663 times
- Location: clue is in the title
Re: Belgium VAR
Daylight for me, Id rather see games finish 13-13 than 0-0IanMcL wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:18 amI don't think that being on or off by a toenail/big nose/long hair etc is in the spirit of the game. I am in favour of torso only and wouldn't object to clear daylight to be offside, as that would mean more goals and eradicate the 'when did it leave the passers boot' rubbish.
Re: Belgium VAR
The difficulty with offside is that its determination is black or white. You are either offside or you are not. Whatever rule you apply to determine that will still need to be measured and it’s the accuracy of the measurement system that is the problem. So, if it’s an armpit, a toenail or daylight, it still needs to be checked, but the system at the moment is not fit for purpose and takes too long. It needs to be automated, but not sure we have reliable enough technology to achieve that yet. The only bit that is perhaps not so black and white is when it comes to determining if a player was interfering with play, which I think should just be scrapped. If a player is on the pitch then they are interfering with play.
-
- Posts: 2114
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:23 pm
- Been Liked: 1164 times
- Has Liked: 94 times
- Location: your mum
Re: Belgium VAR
So if a winger crosses from the byline he is interfering with play when the striker heads it in?kaptin1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 10:11 amThe difficulty with offside is that its determination is black or white. You are either offside or you are not. Whatever rule you apply to determine that will still need to be measured and it’s the accuracy of the measurement system that is the problem. So, if it’s an armpit, a toenail or daylight, it still needs to be checked, but the system at the moment is not fit for purpose and takes too long. It needs to be automated, but not sure we have reliable enough technology to achieve that yet. The only bit that is perhaps not so black and white is when it comes to determining if a player was interfering with play, which I think should just be scrapped. If a player is on the pitch then they are interfering with play.
-
- Posts: 875
- Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:32 pm
- Been Liked: 311 times
- Has Liked: 199 times
Re: Belgium VAR
This is one of UTC’s best ever threads , so many true and accurate comments, just hope that common sense eventually prevails for the good of the game we love.
Re: Belgium VAR
If he crosses the byline he’s not on the pitchdaveisaclaret wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 10:14 amSo if a winger crosses from the byline he is interfering with play when the striker heads it in?
Re: Belgium VAR
I agree completely, this toenail stuff is spoiling games and can't be 100% accurate so goals are actually being disallowed that should stand. It's fair for all clubs that's the only plus point.Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 5:13 amDaylight for me, Id rather see games finish 13-13 than 0-0
Personally when the lines are drawn there should be at least a green line of grass between the two lines to say he's offside but it takes too much time, I'd like them just to show a freeze frame and if he's clearly off disallow and move on if not allow the goal to stand so we get more goals and faster decisions
Re: Belgium VAR
I disagree. Offside law states…”An attacking player may step or stay off the field of play not to be involved in active play. If the player re-enters from the goal line and becomes involved in play before the next stoppage in play, or the defending team has played the ball towards the halfway line and it is outside its penalty area, the player shall be considered to be positioned on the goal line for the purposes of offside. A player who deliberately leaves the field of play and re-enters without the referee’s permission and is not penalised for offside and gains an advantage, must be cautioned.”
-
- Posts: 16902
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
- Been Liked: 6967 times
- Has Liked: 1484 times
- Location: Leeds
Re: Belgium VAR
Yes, so the player is offside but will be considered not to be involved in play.
Re: Belgium VAR
I said if he crosses the byline he is not on the pitch. He is not. I accept he is technically still in an offside position but it is not an offside offence unless he comes back on and takes part in play. My original point was about interfering with play while on the pitch. The OP questioned if a player crosses the byline when the striker heads it in is he interfering with play? I should have just answered “no”.
-
- Posts: 2114
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:23 pm
- Been Liked: 1164 times
- Has Liked: 94 times
- Location: your mum
Re: Belgium VAR
I think you have misread what I said.
-
- Posts: 16902
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
- Been Liked: 6967 times
- Has Liked: 1484 times
- Location: Leeds
Re: Belgium VAR
He said if a player crossed from the byline not crossed the byline. No worries though, I thought you were suggesting that a player could just cross the byline to avoid being offside which isn’t quite the case as we’ve established.kaptin1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:46 pmI said if he crosses the byline he is not on the pitch. He is not. I accept he is technically still in an offside position but it is not an offside offence unless he comes back on and takes part in play. My original point was about interfering with play while on the pitch. The OP questioned if a player crosses the byline when the striker heads it in is he interfering with play? I should have just answered “no”.
-
- Posts: 2546
- Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:18 pm
- Been Liked: 723 times
- Has Liked: 2035 times
- Location: Computer matrix, IP not found- current code: 00101110100101001100100 1011101010100010101101010100100
Re: Belgium VAR
The main reason i was pro-VAR was because i was sick of the "homer" referees and all the 50/50 calls being given against the small clubs and for the big 6. However, having seen VAR used successfully in other sports and international football competitions, i can't believe the Premier League and PGMOL have managed to make VAR as bad as it is and still make it possible for the big club bias. In fact, i'd say it's worse now.
This user liked this post: spt_claret
-
- Posts: 7313
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
- Been Liked: 1827 times
- Has Liked: 3965 times
Re: Belgium VAR
With respect I think that that was a very naive view.
I discussed this with the person I sit next to at the time. He shared your same view.
I always thought that VAR would b used as a tool to favour the elite clubs, and I also correctly predicted that the media would love it, since it adds an extra layer of controversy to add to the debate and analysis.
I'm not happy to have been proved correct.
-
- Posts: 1941
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:52 pm
- Been Liked: 745 times
- Has Liked: 463 times
Re: Belgium VAR
Not what will happen in the Prem. They'll move the goalposts on the process just like they did with VAR- pre-VAR analysis showed that with VAR Burnley would see one of the biggest swings in decisions/points gained, very next season and somehow it's as bad for us if not worse.bobinho wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:42 pmWith a bit of luck, the wronged teams in the PL will follow suit, with the end result being we go back to how things were before the cluster **** that is VAR destroyed our enjoyment of the game.
Unlikely though…. Far too many people and far too much money invested in it now.
The big teams will win appeals the small teams won't, it'll go from refs looking for any 2nd excuse to overturn a decision for the wrong side, to any 2nd excuse to overturn a result for the wrong side.
But I'm sure I'll be called a crazy conspiracy theorist for applying the basic rule of 'follow the money'.
-
- Posts: 2546
- Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:18 pm
- Been Liked: 723 times
- Has Liked: 2035 times
- Location: Computer matrix, IP not found- current code: 00101110100101001100100 1011101010100010101101010100100
Re: Belgium VAR
Probably was naive but having seen the use of VAR in other sports and successfully at either the World Cup or euros the summer/s before I believed it would just be used to reverse those dodgy decisions. I never could have envisaged it being used to find fault in every single penalty call or non-call and leading to ridiculous reversalsnil_desperandum wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 10:41 amWith respect I think that that was a very naive view.
I discussed this with the person I sit next to at the time. He shared your same view.
I always thought that VAR would b used as a tool to favour the elite clubs, and I also correctly predicted that the media would love it, since it adds an extra layer of controversy to add to the debate and analysis.
I'm not happy to have been proved correct.
This user liked this post: nil_desperandum
Re: Belgium VAR
VAR needs binning in the FA Cup to start with.
How you can have all PL cup ties using VAR and others not is crazy.
How you can have all PL cup ties using VAR and others not is crazy.
-
- Posts: 9337
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:48 pm
- Been Liked: 4108 times
- Has Liked: 6591 times
- Location: Burnley
Re: Belgium VAR
Not by me you won’t….spt_claret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 11:04 amNot what will happen in the Prem. They'll move the goalposts on the process just like they did with VAR- pre-VAR analysis showed that with VAR Burnley would see one of the biggest swings in decisions/points gained, very next season and somehow it's as bad for us if not worse.
The big teams will win appeals the small teams won't, it'll go from refs looking for any 2nd excuse to overturn a decision for the wrong side, to any 2nd excuse to overturn a result for the wrong side.
But I'm sure I'll be called a crazy conspiracy theorist for applying the basic rule of 'follow the money'.