ARTICLE: Zaroury leaves for Hull in a Heartbeat

[NickBFC]

Really disappointing how things have worked out this season with Zaroury. I was convinced he would go on to become a top class PL player this season but for whatever reason hasn't been given a proper chance. Not easy playing one week then missing the next several. The way he controls and carries the ball is top quality, I hope he has an excellent few months with Hull then returns to us full of confidence ready for another crack.

[Foshiznik]

Me neither, one of the most entertaining and unplayable I've seen in a Burnley shirt, he's downturn in form must have something to do with vk, a player doesn't just lose it, like he did, also don't get the Benson situation, as much as some fan's saying he's been injured I'm not buying it, he's supposedly fit to be loaned out

Too many on this thread are being revisionists about their memories of last season. At times he was absolutely unplayable, particularly early on but like with almost all young players he wasn't consistent and didn't always make the best decisions. He needs game time to improve this aspect of his game and why not do that at a club where he will get the games rather than cameos here and there at Burnley.

[Andingle]

I thought he was excellent when he first came in and a breath of fresh air to have a player to get you up off your seat, which had been lacking in previous seasons.
But felt his form dipped for some reason on his return from the World Cup.

[Westleigh]

Sealed his own fate at Bournemouth

Didn’t Kompany play him in midfield against Bournemouth?

[Pearcey]

For pure footballing ability he’s our best winger for me. No idea why he hasn’t been used, even off the bench. Hope he performs for Hull like he did for us last season.

[Cirrus_Minor]

Really disappointing but very much part of one of the most disappointing seasons after the heights of last season. I have always believed that playing without the loan players from last season has made us to change our style and this has adversely affected Zaroury and possibly others who were so good before. Completely no idea what will happen at the end of the season.

[bfc-njr-2017]

We forget that Kompany is from the school of Pep. How many times have we seen Guardiola just bin off a big talent. Seems like Vinny is being as ruthless as Pep is to me.

Granted it’s a bit confusing and frustrating at the min. But, I’m so invested in Vinny, his play style is clear and the long-term vision for his teams and the club is so exciting.

[daveisaclaret]

Was his form poor in the second half of last season or did he have the best game of his life v Rovers, go and play in the World Cup 3rd place playoff and come back with unrealistic expectations from the fans?

You can't quibble with the decision to play Koleosho and Odobert ahead of him using hindsight. He must be wondering how on earth he's ended up at Hull with Mike Tresor ahead of him in the pecking order though.

[what_no_pies]

Hell of a head scratcher that VK opted to use two players last night who he knew would be leaving today

More appearances on their record grows their confidence, enhances their perceived status and inflates their future value.

[Stayingup]

Like Roberts, not be given a fair crack of the whip. Surely he's more about him than what Tresor has shown up to now.

[Targetman]

Sealed his own fate at Bournemouth

Utter rubbish!

[THEWELLERNUT70]

It's a tough one to take this and really ( for me anyway) brings into question our thinking/strategy where players are concerned. Zaroury ( again imo ) has offered more in his cameo's than Tresor has had in his multiple opportunities

[Roosterbooster]

I don't see the point in using two players like that when the management knew they were going out of the door a day later. Just don't get it.

Sorry. I was relying to the message from Stanbill05

I agree, using 2 players as subs who he probably knows are leaving the next day is bizarre

I'm not sure why Stanbill thinks playing someone for a few minutes in a game we will almost certainly lose has any bearing on a loan deal the following day. Its not going to affect the terms as far as I can tell, other than getting it called off because they are injured

[Roosterbooster]

In case he got injured?

Yeah I agree. Sorry I was replying to another message and CT was too fast for me

Either way. I'm gonna miss Anass. I know he hasn't featured much, but he gets me off my seat. His little cameos have been fun. The flick at Spurs. And the walk in the park at Salford where he ran things were great. I know he was poor at Bournemouth. But everyone was. I think he has so much potential. Great touch. Scores goals. Good delivery. He's just looked a little overawed at times this season. I really hope we see him back

[Stockbrokerbelt]

Lots of negativity around the manager & coaching team regarding Zaroury & Benson without any foundation & plenty of silly rumours, surely it’s up-to both of them to grab the shirt & make it theirs at the start of the season especially when players are signed in their positions? We have had 2 players that did step up on the left wing & have skinned prem defenders & scored goals.

[ClaretTony]

Lots of negativity around the manager & coaching team regarding Zaroury & Benson without any foundation & plenty of silly rumours, surely it’s up-to both of them to grab the shirt & make it theirs at the start of the season especially when players are signed in their positions? We have had 2 players that did step up on the left wing & have skinned prem defenders & scored goals.

Strange post but in terms of the two you refer to, Koleosho has scored once against Sheffield United. Both he and Odobert have had their good games but they've both had very ineffective games too. What baffles some is that Zaroury got one game at Bournemouth, played poorly, and that's been it. Benson, I've no idea, recently VK said he was playing in the under-21s getting minutes but he wasn't.

[Clive 1960]

Strange post but in terms of the two you refer to, Koleosho has scored once against Sheffield United. Both he and Odobert have had their good games but they've both had very ineffective games too. What baffles some is that Zaroury got one game at Bournemouth, played poorly, and that's been it. Benson, I've no idea, recently VK said he was playing in the under-21s getting minutes but he wasn't.

leaves a lot of questions but no answers unfortunately and i really have to ask is it football decisions or is there something else a miss..

[ClaretLoup]

For me Zaroury should have started ahead of Koleosho in the opening game vs Man City and the newbie wait for his chance. Instead he came on and got a red card for a really dumb challenge when the game was already lost, which made it even dumber.

Since then what few chances he has had he has spurned and vs Spurs in the Cup he seemed to view tracking back and defending as optional, but as with many of our other wide players apart from JBG, I don’t think he is alone in possessing that trait.

[bumba]

Lots of negativity around the manager & coaching team regarding Zaroury & Benson without any foundation & plenty of silly rumours, surely it’s up-to both of them to grab the shirt & make it theirs at the start of the season especially when players are signed in their positions? We have had 2 players that did step up on the left wing & have skinned prem defenders & scored goals.

Skinned!?
Odabert has scored a few good goals and is more of a goal threat than Koleosho who really struggles with his end product but both are also very inconsistent.
Both struggle defensively and both drift in and out of games.
Both will be top talents but there games should be hand picked at the moment.
Zaroury and Benson haven't been given the shirt to grab it with both hands, Zaroury started away at Bournemouth and that's it but he was involved in four goals against Salford.
With a run of games they'd both be more effective than any winger we currently have

[bobinho]

I really don’t see a way back for these players moving on loan, despite the fact we’ll be plying our trade at the lower level next season.

Try to imagine how they feel about how they’ve been managed this season, and then imagine them coming back.

I’m happy to trust VK and let him get on with things how he sees fit, and let’s be honest there are plenty on here who go on about how we should have no room for sentiment and those not good enough should be moved on, and as much as I agree with that, I’d prefer to have seen the players who got us promoted, the GOOD players who got us promoted, given a real chance at stepping up this season. I’m disappointed that didn’t happen. I imagine they are too, and that’s why I’d suggest, sadly, that they are done here.

[warksclaret]

Zaroury may well struggle to start regularly when you see the players Hull have recently brought in

[Big Vinny K]

Koleosho’s and Odabert’s performances seem to have been inflated by how bad some of our other players have played most weeks - especially the likes of Amdouni and Tresor who cost a lot of money.

In reality the statistics for both players are not great. That doesn’t mean they deserve criticism as both need time to develop and clearly have shown potential.

Even then if (and it’s a debatable if) we say Koleosho and Odobert deserve to start nearly every game as one of them have JBG and who ever else VK had tried on the right have been consistently poor. And again even if (even more debatable !!) we say the likes of JBG, Tresor deserve to start most games I simply cannot get my head round why Benson and Zaroury have hardly been used as substitutes especially when VK is regularly hooking starting wingers after 60 minutes.

Makes no sense on a couple of fronts. Both were brilliant last year and deserved their new long term contracts. And secondly you are absolutely knocking their confidence levels as they are struggling to make even a 9 man bench.

[Rileybobs]

Isn't this, and the disconnect with Benson, not a sign of failure of our supposed transfer policy? Surely we could have moved them on for decent money in the summer, after both had been stand out players in the Championship. Now we have two players who know they aren't wanted here, and probably don't want to be here.

Edit - this is also another example of why more and more fans are becoming disconnected with the team.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Isn't this, and the disconnect with Benson, not a sign of failure of our supposed transfer policy? Surely we could have moved them on for decent money in the summer, after both had been stand out players in the Championship. Now we have two players who know they aren't wanted here, and probably don't want to be here.

Edit - this is also another example of why more and more fans are becoming disconnected with the team.

If we had turned down bids for them possibly, but even now teams only wanted the pair on loan.

[RVclaret]

Isn't this, and the disconnect with Benson not a sign of failure of our supposed transfer policy? Surely we could have moved them on for decent money in the summer, after both had been stand out players in the Championship. Now we have two players who know they aren't wanted here, and probably don't want to be here.

No, they helped get us promoted. Zaroury will highly likely be a key player next season. Not sure how we know he isn’t wanted here, surely rejecting Lille’s offer including a buy option suggests otherwise?

[elwaclaret]

Unlike others I feel most of the loan players have a long term future at the club, but that it has been identified players may develop quicker by working with other coaches and different ideas to give these young lads a more rounded football education and chance to bulk up while playing at a good level.

[Rileybobs]

If we had turned down bids for them possibly, but even now teams only wanted the pair on loan.

It's a different picture in January though. I'm sure in summer had we indicated Benson and Zaroury were both for sale we would have got decent transfer fees for the pair.

[Rileybobs]

No, they helped get us promoted. Zaroury will highly likely be a key player next season. Not sure how we know he isn’t wanted here, surely rejecting Lille’s offer including a buy option suggests otherwise?

Possibly, but it's not hard to imagine that Zaroury and Benson feel quite disenfranchised. They played a key part in winning promotion to the Premier League and have hardly featured, will they have the same appetite to do so again with the knowledge that they will probably not be wanted again?

I think it's only fair that questions are asked about how we've let it get to this point.

[spt_claret]

The biggest myth ever that keeps getting repeated on here, he was friggin brilliant the entire season.

Agreed. He was less directly productive but if you watched the games rather than going off the raw goal/assist stats you'd have seen that he was still playing well, teams were just becoming much more scared of him and trying to focus on stopping him. No coincidence Tella and Benson's form shot up when Zaroury's goal contributions dropped, teams focused on him switched off on Tella/Benny and that saw them start flying.
By the end we had teams trying to stop all 3, Bristol admitting to double-marking and drilling against Benson, teams trying to doublemark or kick Zaroury, trying to leave a few stoppers on Tella to slow him down. Benny was my favourite followed by Tella but Zaroury was a top player all year.
He had a stupid mistake against City and 1 bad start vs Bournemouth this season. Everyone acts like this is some unforgivable performance ignoring that everybody in the team, even our POTS Berge, has had 1 bad game or more.
Really don't like the thought of losing him and if I had my way it'd be Tresor, Redmond and probably Larsen off in the summer to let Zaroury & Benson back in.

[expoultryboy]

Hardly had any game time in comparison to Amdouni and even Tresor and they've not exactly pulled up trees .

[spt_claret]

I don't see the point in using two players like that when the management knew they were going out of the door a day later. Just don't get it.

There's a cynical streak in me that says it could be deliberate, knowing they wouldn't achieve much vs City of all teams. Throw them out when they've not much hope of impressing, if by a miracle they pull something off then the outgoing deal's terms might bump up a bit, if they don't which is more likely you can say "See they didn't impress, get shut".
I'd really rather not think that's what happened, and to be clear- I don't think it is, I think Kompany's decision was probably more a case of 'last chance to impress/might help sell the loan', but if you wanted to hang a player out to dry who's out of favour, throwing them on cold against City when weve already got absences would be a way to do it.

[CoolClaret]

Some fans need to go and rewatch some of Anass' performances last season.

Kid is genuinely two footed and has a pearler of a cross, shot and pass with both feet.

I like Koleosho and Odobert - they all have differing skillsets - I don't think Koleosho or Odobert play that pass in behind to Amdouni that Anass did at Spurs, for example.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Zaroury was absolute class last season. Maybe he wasn’t ’as good’ after the World Cup due to the ridiculously high standards he had set but I still remember him taking full backs to pieces like at home to Preston.
Wingers who are genuinely two footed and can cross on the run are a rare find. Even more baffling that Tressor and Larson are deemed an upgrade on him by the manager and coaching staff.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The clue to Zaroury being overrated (but with huge potential) is last season when at home he had 5 goals 5 assists and away he had 2 goals 0 assists.

A mark of a good player is doing it away from home. He didn’t do it much last season in the league below (Sunderland away second half an exception) so the Premier League is likely too much for him right now. You have to take the game by the scruff of the neck in the PL and is he a bit undynamic for that?

We have to trust the manager. The worry I have isn’t if Zaroury isn’t ready for this league, but if Kompany is. But I’m sure he’ll be ready for it if he gets a second stab with us. He is such a quick learner.

[CoolClaret]

The clue to Zaroury being overrated (but with huge potential) is last season when at home he had 5 goals 5 assists and away he had 2 goals 0 assists.

A mark of a good player is doing it away from home. He didn’t do it much last season in the league below (Sunderland away second half an exception) so the Premier League is likely too much for him right now. You have to take the game by the scruff of the neck in the PL and is he a bit undynamic for that?

We have to trust the manager. The worry I have isn’t if Zaroury isn’t ready for this league, but if Kompany is. But I’m sure he’ll be ready for it if he gets a second stab with us. He is such a quick learner.

We really have to stop looking at football solely through the eyes of assists and what not.

It's absolutely mental, it's about playing a role on a team. If the team is winning and performing well as a unit then so what? Not everyone can put out superb numbers every other game, or you'd be winning 5-0 every week!

Anass last year, particularly in the second half of the season, was literally hugging the touchline and stretching the field laterally, which allowed Tella and others space to operate in the middle.

It's obviously a different level, but I've attached Ryan Gigg's stats during the United treble winning season.

Do you think he wasn't just as important in their success? Because I'm pretty damn sure Sir Alex and his teammates wouldn't have swapped him for anyone.

[DCWat]

From an outsider looking in, Hull look to be improving as a club. They appear pretty ambitious and the few times I’ve seen them, including last season, play a decent brand of football with some good technical players.

They’ve gone off the boil a bit of late, but still with a good chance of the play offs. Wouldn’t surprise me if they were challenging, next season (this season probably a step too far, although anything can happen in the Championship).

[Stockbrokerbelt]

Zaroury was absolute class last season. Maybe he wasn’t ’as good’ after the World Cup due to the ridiculously high standards he had set but I still remember him taking full backs to pieces like at home to Preston.
Wingers who are genuinely two footed and can cross on the run are a rare find. Even more baffling that Tressor and Larson are deemed an upgrade on him by the manager and coaching staff.

Exactly last season, prem is very different, don’t think I’m anti Zaroury infact I think he has massive potential & special but I trust our manager & coaching staff. They see them everyday & are professionals that played at the highest level.

[JohnMac]

Good luck to the lad but i have to say some of the transfers is mind boggling that how you give player's new contracts and freeze them out of the squad, I'm now starting to wonder who is making these decisions...

The longer remaining on the contract, the more money he can be sold for presumably. Maybe makes sense to extend some of the better players even if they are on the fringe, as long as the wages aren't silly.

[claretspice]

My own view is that three things can all be true:

1. Zaroury was terrific last season, contributed loads and showed huge potential (and I agree that his contribution outweighed his stats because he increasingly played a role in stretching teams and creating the space, and playing the initial passes, that allowed others to do the killer stuff)

2. Our recruitment in wide and attacking roles has been a bit of a jumbled mess since the end of last season and Zaroury appears to be a victim of that and so has had surprisingly few chances this season - even if it was always quite likely he'd be in and out of a team at this level at his stage in development.

3. At this stage in the season given the number of options we have in his position, a loan to the Championship is a sensible step and is probably to our benefit next season. There's no reason to suggest it means he will be sold, but he's played relatively few senior games before his breakthrough with us last season and so does still have plenty to learn about the "business" side of the game.

I think it's about that simple. I think there are some overreaction as a result.

[CoolClaret]

My own view is that three things can all be true:

1. Zaroury was terrific last season, contributed loads and showed huge potential (and I agree that his contribution outweighed his stats because he increasingly played a role in stretching teams and creating the space, and playing the initial passes, that allowed others to do the killer stuff)

2. Our recruitment in wide and attacking roles has been a bit of a jumbled mess since the end of last season and Zaroury appears to be a victim of that and so has had surprisingly few chances this season;

3. At this stage in the season given the number of options we have in his position, a loan to the Championship is a sensible step and is probably to our benefit next season. There's no reason to suggest it means he will be sold, but he's played relatively few senior games before his breakthrough with us last season and so does still have plenty to learn about the "business" side of the game.

I think it's about that simple.

I can go with that - though I do think having Zaroury play more of a role and allocating funds elsewhere would have been more sensible for the team as a collective.

[claretspice]

I can go with that - though I do think having Zaroury play more of a role and allocating funds elsewhere would have been more sensible for the team as a collective.

I think that can be (and is) true as well. We made mistakes last summer. But we are where we are and have to manage the players and squad we have now as best we can. We do that in the here and now, not by wishing about what we might have done last summer. Upgrades at full back and perhaps more ballast in midfield would have been preferable to perhaps 2 of the wide players we ended up signing. But we didn't do that and here we are.

[CoolClaret]

I think that can be (and is) true as well. We made mistakes last summer. But we are where we are and have to manage the players and squad we have now as best we can. We do that in the here and now, not by wishing about what we might have done last summer. Upgrades at full back and perhaps more ballast in midfield would have been preferable to perhaps 2 of the wide players we ended up signing. But we didn't do that and here we are.

We are - but that sentiment will linger and either grow or vanish depending on how the season ends & the following season or two.

[spt_claret]

We really have to stop looking at football solely through the eyes of assists and what not.

It's absolutely mental, it's about playing a role on a team. If the team is winning and performing well as a unit then so what? Not everyone can put out superb numbers every other game, or you'd be winning 5-0 every week!

Anass last year, particularly in the second half of the season, was literally hugging the touchline and stretching the field laterally, which allowed Tella and others space to operate in the middle.

It's obviously a different level, but I've attached Ryan Gigg's stats during the United treble winning season.

Do you think he wasn't just as important in their success? Because I'm pretty damn sure Sir Alex and his teammates wouldn't have swapped him for anyone.

I slightly disagree in that Zaroury's a more attack-oriented player with a focus on goal contributions, an attacking winger rather than a wide playmaker, but I do agree overall that his output tailing off (which yes represents a dip in 'form' in terms of his own personal goal contributions) is more reasonably explained by his shift in focus to be a link player as teams identified and focused on him as a threat to prioritise- which they visibly did- and this in turn gave Tella, Benson etc. more licence to do damage. Doesn't entirely explain why his output didn't pick back up as much after teams then refocused to contain Tella/Benny instead, but overall I agree with your broader points. But brace yourself for "How can you seriously be comparing Anass Zaroury to Ryan Giggs?" from the usual suspects.

[KlyBfc]

The biggest myth ever that keeps getting repeated on here, he was friggin brilliant the entire season.

Agreed. The nonsense he was poor after the World Cup and so superior before it drives me insane. If that was the case he’d have only had 3 and a half good games all season.

Swansea (h)
Reading (h)
Sunderland (a) second half
Blackburn (h)

[claretspice]

I slightly disagree in that Zaroury's a more attack-oriented player with a focus on goal contributions, an attacking winger rather than a wide playmaker, but I do agree overall that his output tailing off (which yes represents a dip in 'form' in terms of his own personal goal contributions) is more reasonably explained by teams identifying and focusing on him as a threat to prioritise- which they visibly did- and this gave Tella, Benson etc. more licence to do damage. Doesn't entirely explain why his output didn't pick back up as much after teams then refocused to contain Tella/Benny instead, but overall I agree with your broader points. But brace yourself for "How can you seriously be comparing Anass Zaroury to Ryan Giggs?" from the usual suspects.

I'm not sure this entirely true. Whilst his pure wing play was hugely exciting and dangerous, as the season wore on and teams focused on stopping him, it was his weight and intelligence of attacking pass in the build up which became most impressive. He mastered the 'pep pass' - sliding the ball from the touchline into the inside channel for a runner to get onto and pull back.

[CoolClaret]

I slightly disagree in that Zaroury's a more attack-oriented player with a focus on goal contributions, an attacking winger rather than a wide playmaker, but I do agree overall that his output tailing off (which yes represents a dip in 'form' in terms of his own personal goal contributions) is more reasonably explained by his shift in focus to be a link player as teams identified and focused on him as a threat to prioritise- which they visibly did- and this in turn gave Tella, Benson etc. more licence to do damage. Doesn't entirely explain why his output didn't pick back up as much after teams then refocused to contain Tella/Benny instead, but overall I agree with your broader points. But brace yourself for "How can you seriously be comparing Anass Zaroury to Ryan Giggs?" from the usual suspects.

Well you know that re Giggs is coming - I wasn't particularly alluding that they play the same role btw, more that 'a team is about the collective'

To me Zarourys role definitely changed as the season went on, with Maatsen coming inside he took up a wider position and really hugged the touchline.. .Earlier in the season he was coming inside a lot more with Maatsen overlapping.

I'm not sure this entirely true. Whilst his pure wing play was hugely exciting and dangerous, as the season wore on and teams focused on stopping him, it was his weight and intelligence of attacking pass in the build up which became most impressive. He mastered the 'pep pass' - sliding the ball from the touchline into the inside channel for a runner to get onto and pull back.

Yep. Exactly this.

[spt_claret]

I'm not sure this entirely true. Whilst his pure wing play was hugely exciting and dangerous, as the season wore on and teams focused on stopping him, it was his weight and intelligence of attacking pass in the build up which became most impressive. He mastered the 'pep pass' - sliding the ball from the touchline into the inside channel for a runner to get onto and pull back.

Sorry, yes I realised I hadn't actually finished writing out my thoughts before I hit send - edited the post since but you're correct. I feel his role changed slightly to more of a link man after teams identified him as a key goal contributor so worked to shut him down. That gave other players a bit more room, his own playstyle adapting also gave them a bit more room. He seemed to be a lot less inclined to cut in and shoot, from memory, compared to earlier in the season, or to whip a cross in, but as you say would sit on the ball and slip it short to Maatsen, Brownhill, etc., or cut it back to someone else on the inner left channel if he had gone outside. But I do think he had a lull soon after the WC because teams focused on stopping his personal goal threat, and the change in his style was a response to that counter to his play, if that makes sense?

[CoolClaret]

I think what is fair to say is that social media, highlights, FIFA, FM, FOTMOB, SofaScore hyper analysis etc etc has completely distorted a lot of viewers' opinions on football or what makes a footballer.

It's really not as simple as some like to make out.

[ClaretFelix]

Personally think its a ridiculous decision to have ignored him all season and ship him out. We finally have a quick, robust striker who isn't bad in the air who could get on the end of the kind of crosses Zaroury put in last season.

He was criticised by many for his end product in not finding a man but if you look at where the balls were put, they were crying out for a clinical striker to get in amongst the keeper and defenders and get some kind of effort on goal

[Terry Cochrane]

It is not beyond the possibility that Hull may replace us in the Prem. Signed a few decent players inc Ryan Giles.