Q and A Sessions with VK

[Enola Gay]

Reading through this thread and others like it, what leaps the most immediately to mind is the Russian proverb about how someone who wants to beat a dog will always find a stick. Whining about no Q&As or complaining about Kompany's perceived lack of investment in the local scene are just extra verses in this season's song of woe and, as others have said above, wouldn't be issues if we were sitting in 10th place.

I'm as engaged with the club as a whole as I've been for years. That said, I don't like this team as much as I did last season's. After the last few Dyche seasons prior to the relegation one, watching a superannuated squad timewaste and s***house their way out of the Premier League had me at Cotterillesque levels of disinterest in watching any more of it. Kompany coming in felt like a much-needed complete restart for me, and the football he played with the team he assembled got me more enthused about matchdays than I'd been in a long time. Seeing that team start to dissolve in the summer and be marginalised thereafter has soured matchdays somewhat but favourite players have come and gone as long as I've been watching. You move on, you get over it. The rest of the Burnley-supporting experience is pretty much as-it-was for me.

I think part of the bigger problem is that while we did a tremendous amount of good stuff under the last owners, too many fans got overly fixated on 'how' we were doing stuff - plucky underdogs against the moneybags pedigrees, the idea/veneer/illusion/delete as applicable of all-in-it-together, small-town boys made good - almost to the point where it became as if not more important than the 'what' of staying in the Premier League and maybe improving the football, lowering the age of the squad, kicking on from 'finish 17th and dump the cups'.

Which is fine as long as the 'how' ensures that the 'what' keeps happening... but once it looked like it might stop working and we went down the road to changing it and ended up being more like other clubs, too many fans were more hung up on not being 'special' anymore and have subconconsciously taken that out on the new board. And now, on the manager.

[boatshed bill]

Certainly a buzzword, but I haven't seen anyone explain why they feel that way, what has changed to make them feel that way, or when this change took place.

They were "attached" enough celebrating promotion in the town centre.
I think they mean they are disappointed.

[NewClaret]

Reading through this thread and others like it, what leaps the most immediately to mind is the Russian proverb about how someone who wants to beat a dog will always find a stick. Whining about no Q&As or complaining about Kompany's perceived lack of investment in the local scene are just extra verses in this season's song of woe and, as others have said above, wouldn't be issues if we were sitting in 10th place.

I'm as engaged with the club as a whole as I've been for years. That said, I don't like this team as much as I did last season's. After the last few Dyche seasons prior to the relegation one, watching a superannuated squad timewaste and s***house their way out of the Premier League had me at Cotterillesque levels of disinterest in watching any more of it. Kompany coming in felt like a much-needed complete restart for me, and the football he played with the team he assembled got me more enthused about matchdays than I'd been in a long time. Seeing that team start to dissolve in the summer and be marginalised thereafter has soured matchdays somewhat but favourite players have come and gone as long as I've been watching. You move on, you get over it. The rest of the Burnley-supporting experience is pretty much as-it-was for me.

I think part of the bigger problem is that while we did a tremendous amount of good stuff under the last owners, too many fans got overly fixated on 'how' we were doing stuff - plucky underdogs against the moneybags pedigrees, the idea/veneer/illusion/delete as applicable of all-in-it-together, small-town boys made good - almost to the point where it became as if not more important than the 'what' of staying in the Premier League and maybe improving the football, lowering the age of the squad, kicking on from 'finish 17th and dump the cups'.

Which is fine as long as the 'how' ensures that the 'what' keeps happening... but once it looked like it might stop working and we went down the road to changing it and ended up being more like other clubs, too many fans were more hung up on not being 'special' anymore and have subconconsciously taken that out on the new board. And now, on the manager.

Brilliant post.

[Nori1958]

They were "attached" enough celebrating promotion in the town centre.
I think they mean they are disappointed.

I think we are all disappointed, surprised and a little fed up, which is normal for any fan of a team which is losing as many games as we are
When people start saying they now feel detached from the club, when the only thing that's changed are the results, is all a bit over the top for me.

[boyyanno]

This thread is a perfect example of how toxic this board has become at times.

Number of posters on the first page just laughing between themselves and mocking others for feeling how they do.

I'm not one to use the word detached and it doesn't describe my feelings, but you can disagree with somthing without invalidating someone or being a d**head about it. We're all responsible for making this place a decent one but it's spiralling massively at the moment.

[NewClaret]

To add to Enola Gay’s post:

It’s an interesting point about your enthusiasm for last year, shared by myself, and whether it set expectations too high this year.

On reflection I personally doubt that we’ll ever be able to play that style and that football in the Premier League with the type of players we can afford/our budget. It may be an impossible task for Kompany to take on. But I for one am enjoying seeing this new youthful side take shape. If we can keep it together they might just prove me very wrong. Theres no certainty in that, which seems to scare a lot of people, while I find the lack of certainty part of the excitement. In that sense I’ve never really been more engaged with the club.

[JohnMcGreal]

It's hard to put my finger on but there is something strangely cold and distant about this team and I'm not really sure why.

Maybe it's the hangover from last season, but I just don't sense a strong team spirit amongst these players. They all look a bit thrown together and I don't get the impression they're willing to run through brick walls for each other, or for the manager, even.

We're also clearly lacking a few big personalities and leaders in the group.

I have to agree with others that completely revamping the team after their achievements last season was a major blunder. It wouldn't be a surprise if that's gone down like a lead balloon with the players and is a major cause of some of the issues we're seeing.

I'm not sure what the next steps are but I think it's going to be a very weird summer, whatever happens.

[edlass]

I wonder if what we are experiencing now is what some other teams have had for 10 even 20 years plus. Football has changed around us but we still had local owners a British manager and mostly British players. I think that's just how the chips fell and wasn't on purpose. Add to that the fighting/grinding style of a Dyche team for 10 years. We might have just been lucky. I think alot of other clubs have gone the other way since the turn of the century and are completely used to frequent manager changes and high player turnovers and styles.

I've felt something different since Kompany arrived but I'm not sure exactly what it is. At first I was just waiting for him to go to City. I think I enjoyed last season so much because we were the best and not because I had any deep connection to the players which is quite shallow I know but as a fan of Burnley I could say we were the best (of the rest).

[Clovius Boofus]

Cracking post from Enola Gay. And yes, the Russian proverb is bang on the money.

[forzagranata]

I think part of the bigger problem is that while we did a tremendous amount of good stuff under the last owners, too many fans got overly fixated on 'how' we were doing stuff - plucky underdogs against the moneybags pedigrees, the idea/veneer/illusion/delete as applicable of all-in-it-together, small-town boys made good - almost to the point where it became as if not more important than the 'what' of staying in the Premier League and maybe improving the football, lowering the age of the squad, kicking on from 'finish 17th and dump the cups'.

Which is fine as long as the 'how' ensures that the 'what' keeps happening... but once it looked like it might stop working and we went down the road to changing it and ended up being more like other clubs, too many fans were more hung up on not being 'special' anymore and have subconconsciously taken that out on the new board. And now, on the manager.

I think there is something in this - but would also add that what has been lost is not juts the perception of ourselves but more concretely, the sense of security that had been built up over years by Kilby and Garlick and Dyche.

For all the frustration over lack of investment in talent, there was the sense that the club was in safe hands and that we wouldn't again be facing the kind of financial dangers that we faced in the 1980's.

I don't feel there is that security in the club anymore and there is a danger that the gambles and experiments on the financial side end up coming back to bite us very badly indeed.

For fans that saw the club nearly go out of business - that factor shouldn't be under-estimated.

[boatshed bill]

Cracking post from Enola Gay. And yes, the Russian proverb is bang on the money.

Enhanced by the adjective "cotterillesque": should be added to the OED

[NewClaret]

Don’t disagree and it’s clear we’ve ****** up this season. What we’ll never know is what the atmosphere/feeling would be on here had we been more loyal to last seasons players and still found ourselves so far adrift in early February.

Completely agree with this, but also certain in my mind that if we were winning nobody would give two hoots about last years players and would be lauding Kompany and his signings as the next coming of JC and his disciples.

Instead the threads on here would be full of hysteria and fear that we were going to lose him to Chelsea when Poch gets sacked imminently and sell all our new hero’s to them.

[NewClaret]

Only time will tell how big a **** up we’ve made. Best case scenario is that this year is a blip on the road to far greater success. Worst case scenario of course is that we’re not even very good in the Championship and we’ve wasted a fortune.

On the team for next year, I personally have no doubts that this years team is levels above last years. Thats not to say I don’t love last years team - I think they’re all fantastic - but for instance I see Koleosho and Odobert > Zaroury, Berge > Cullen, O’Shea > THB, Foster > Barnes/Jay, Amdouni > Brownhill (in the 10 role) - poor as he’s been in front of goal he’s better in the 10 than Browny. Hopefully this Assignon will also be an improvement on Roberts/Vitinho.

Muric & Trafford is more difficult and I’d argue Muric would be better placed in the Championship because of his distribution. But that’s today’s Muric. Let’s not forget that for the first half of the season Muric had haters galore on here. Whoever we choose, they’ll be an improvement on the keeper we had for the first half of our Championship season.

Of course you need spirit, confidence, work rate and a bit of luck to be champions. But usually quality prevails at the end of the day. If we can keep the majority of this team together.

The best bit is, ex-loanees aside, we still have all the Championship winning squad to come back in. We’ve not sold them. So we have that experience to call on.

[Holtyclaret]

Certainly a buzzword, but I haven't seen anyone explain why they feel that way, what has changed to make them feel that way, or when this change took place.

Fear of change would account for a lot.

[Elizabeth]

This thread is a perfect example of how toxic this board has become at times.

I think there has been some great points on this thread supporting the idea as to why many fans feel detached.
The offensive posts have come from those posters disagreeing with this idea and you are quite right they do this board a disservice . Even not so well disguised attacks on Claret Tony which are plainly a fool's way of getting back at him for reasons only known to themselves. I ignored responding to the ignorant attacks on me yesterday when I first used the word because of who posted them.
We all know who most of these posters are but there is more to it when reasonable posters like RV are dismissive. Sorry RV it's not a buzzword as you dismissed it as.
Its clearly an emotive issue

[NewClaret]

I think there is something in this - but would also add that what has been lost is not juts the perception of ourselves but more concretely, the sense of security that had been built up over years by Kilby and Garlick and Dyche.

For all the frustration over lack of investment in talent, there was the sense that the club was in safe hands and that we wouldn't again be facing the kind of financial dangers that we faced in the 1980's.

I don't feel there is that security in the club anymore and there is a danger that the gambles and experiments on the financial side end up coming back to bite us very badly indeed.

For fans that saw the club nearly go out of business - that factor shouldn't be under-estimated.

This is a good point and if I could level one criticism at Pace/ALK it would be that they’ve been less than transparent with fans on the finances/structure. My hope, perhaps optimistically, is they’re not as bad as we think. When you don’t really know though, anxieties will persist.

What I’d say though, is whatever sense of security we might’ve had previously, it was misplaced. Because however much financial security is built up it can be undone at the stroke of a signature on a leveraged buy out. So you’re never really as safe as you think you are.

[Rileybobs]

Enola Gay's post is a good one and I agree with a lot of it, but I don't think it's fair to level this explanation as to why all the fans who feel 'detached' do so, not that their post suggests that.

I think the previous way we went about business meant that we had a squad with a very low turnover of players. The downside to this was that things can, and did, go stale. But the upside is that the team felt like ours. Familiar faces who'd represented the club for a number of seasons, who generally gave everything for the shirt.

Can anyone name their favourite player any more? We've become a squad of interchangeable faces who wear the same shirts and I must admit to feeling more detached with this side than I ever did under Dyche. That said, last season was the opposite and most of those players were new signings, so obviously the results and performances play a significant part in people's feelings. Something was different though, the away game at Huddersfield was one of my favourite nights following Burnley, it was all so new and impromptu chants were invented there and then for our players.

Where are the player chants this season? We don't have any, so this feeling of detachment is obviously a real thing and not something to sneer about.

The dropping of Muric has upset a lot of people and this has brought about a lot of unjust resentment against Trafford. The loaning out of Zaroury and sidelining of Benson is also naturally going to upset a lot of people too.

I've waffled on a bit here without really thinking what I wanted to say, but something is just different and harder to get behind, regardless of the results. I still love and am hugely passionate about Burnley, my life revolves around it to a degree. I'm also not a naturally negative person but I just see us doing a lot of things wrong and I end up engaging with the people on here who are the opposite and will defend every decision the club makes.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The problem is the “security” under the old ownership was an illusion, but one we were happy to bathe in.

The fattening up of the balance sheet went towards their sale proceeds, none of us know if that was deliberate all the way through. But if they had taken the cash throughout their tenure the “feel” would have been very different.

The trouble is the fans now relate the riskier finances to the new owners, and that nervousness I think makes us all get very wobbly when we look like we may drop again. VK and the team bear the brunt of that, so they now get abuse, and it isn’t too strong a word, aimed at many players who to them aren’t smiling or running enough.

The worry I have is that a growing part of our fanbase are deciding they don’t want Premier League Kompany-ball. They are starting to complain about every little thing. I think that is an error, because the alternative is far worse. Facts are, we are part of the new American style razzamatazz Premier League, nauseating though much of it is, trying to play like the top teams like all clubs do now, or we decline and watch average players in front of average crowds. That’s the choice - the era of Dyche, Pulis, Allerdyce keeping clubs up on sweat and heroics alone, is over. The skillful players elsewhere are too good. Not sure all of us have grasped that yet.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Where are the player chants this season? We don't have any

I’n not sure that’s true.
Granted I’ve only been to a few away games but there were plenty of chants for Foster, Trafford, Amdouni, Koleosho to add to ones from previous seasons for Taylor, Vitinho etc and I’ve certainly heard them at home. On the odd occasion we are not getting spanked anyway.

[NewClaret]

Another great post Crosspool.

[NewClaret]

I’n not sure that’s true.
Granted I’ve only been to a few away games but there were plenty of chants for Foster, Trafford, Amdouni, Koleosho to add to ones from previous seasons for Taylor, Vitinho etc and I’ve certainly heard them at home. On the odd occasion we are not getting spanked anyway.

Agree with this. We have songs for the new players (in the main - we didn’t have them for them all last year).

We just don’t sing them because we don’t like singing when we’re not winning, generally.

[CoolClaret]

The problem is the “security” under the old ownership was an illusion, but one we were happy to bathe in.

The fattening up of the balance sheet went towards their sale proceeds, none of us know if that was deliberate all the way through. But if they had taken the cash throughout their tenure the “feel” would have been very different.

The trouble is the fans now relate the riskier finances to the new owners, and that nervousness I think makes us all get very wobbly when we look like we may drop again. VK and the team bear the brunt of that, so they now get abuse, and it isn’t too strong a word, aimed at many players who to them aren’t smiling or running enough.

The worry I have is that a growing part of our fanbase are deciding they don’t want Premier League Kompany-ball. They are starting to complain about every little thing. I think that is an error, because the alternative is far worse. Facts are, we are part of the new American style razzamatazz Premier League, nauseating though much of it is, trying to play like the top teams like all clubs do now, or we decline and watch average players in front of average crowds. That’s the choice - the era of Dyche, Pulis, Allerdyce keeping clubs up on sweat and heroics alone, is over. The skillful players elsewhere are too good. Not sure all of us have grasped that yet.

It really isn't an 'illusion' at all. It was factual

The rest of your post is confirmation bias.

Pulis and Allardyce also spent a fair amount of cash - particularly Allardyce and he had some extremely talented players at his disposal in some of his teams; JayJay Okotcha, Anelka, Campo just to name three.

[forzagranata]

The problem is the “security” under the old ownership was an illusion, but one we were happy to bathe in.

The fattening up of the balance sheet went towards their sale proceeds, none of us know if that was deliberate all the way through. But if they had taken the cash throughout their tenure the “feel” would have been very different.

The trouble is the fans now relate the riskier finances to the new owners, and that nervousness I think makes us all get very wobbly when we look like we may drop again. VK and the team bear the brunt of that, so they now get abuse, and it isn’t too strong a word, aimed at many players who to them aren’t smiling or running enough.

The worry I have is that a growing part of our fanbase are deciding they don’t want Premier League Kompany-ball. They are starting to complain about every little thing. I think that is an error, because the alternative is far worse. Facts are, we are part of the new American style razzamatazz Premier League, nauseating though much of it is, trying to play like the top teams like all clubs do now, or we decline and watch average players in front of average crowds. That’s the choice - the era of Dyche, Pulis, Allerdyce keeping clubs up on sweat and heroics alone, is over. The skillful players elsewhere are too good. Not sure all of us have grasped that yet.

The security wasn't an illusion at all. There was no risk of the club collapsing into financial chaos/administration/bankruptcy under the previous regimes. That risk is now there. Its not an immediate risk but the red flags are there for all to see. You can argue, reasonably, that the risks needed to be taken in order to compete at a PL level - but they are risks nonetheless.

Ask fans of other teams, or other neutral observers, what they think of the risks to a club that has been bought with a leveraged takeover with piles of debt loaded on to the club. What they think of a club whose finances are reliant on loans and debt and who spend over 100 million on transfers but look likely to be relegated. A club with an ownership that has little or no background in running a major football club and an inexperienced manager with a huge amount of power over transfers.

The risk isn't palpable yet because we got promoted and we are in the Premier League. But if we keep making mistakes in the transfer market and don't bounce back for another year of PL cash, the dangers will be much closer.

This is all part of the uneasiness that of course is amplified by the miserable results on the field from a team that doesn't really look or feel like a team but a collection of 'new hires'.

[boatshed bill]

The problem is the “security” under the old ownership was an illusion, but one we were happy to bathe in.

The fattening up of the balance sheet went towards their sale proceeds, none of us know if that was deliberate all the way through. But if they had taken the cash throughout their tenure the “feel” would have been very different.

The trouble is the fans now relate the riskier finances to the new owners, and that nervousness I think makes us all get very wobbly when we look like we may drop again. VK and the team bear the brunt of that, so they now get abuse, and it isn’t too strong a word, aimed at many players who to them aren’t smiling or running enough.

The worry I have is that a growing part of our fanbase are deciding they don’t want Premier League Kompany-ball. They are starting to complain about every little thing. I think that is an error, because the alternative is far worse. Facts are, we are part of the new American style razzamatazz Premier League, nauseating though much of it is, trying to play like the top teams like all clubs do now, or we decline and watch average players in front of average crowds. That’s the choice - the era of Dyche, Pulis, Allerdyce keeping clubs up on sweat and heroics alone, is over. The skillful players elsewhere are too good. Not sure all of us have grasped that yet.

Our fans (well a fair proportion) want PL football almost to the point where nothing else would be acceptable.
So they should at least try to embrace the new model.

[Vim Fuego]

an illusion

Eh ??? It was an absolute reality how well we did under previous ownership and how secure we were

[Jellybean]

I normally lap up anything to do with the club, videos of training, interviews with players, behind the scenes stuff. I've not got past the first episode of the documentary. Hearing some fat cat talking about making lots of money has stuck in my mind and I didn't feel like I was watching a programme about my club.

It's been a horrendous season, just as we get used to a team it's changed, just as we get a great player he gets injured, players who got us off our seats last season just left to rot not even in the reserves because we no longer have reserves. VAR not helping at all Changes to the food and drink offer, prices increased yet again, minor but all contributing factors to lessening the joy of match days. Massive increase in mascot packages prices me out from treating my child and trying to ensure fan for life status.

No personable videos of players, I guess last season it was easier when the going was so good and we had the likes of Tella and Barnes, but all I see now is these strangers rocking up and playing in our shirt.

It's bizarre really and as others have said hard to put a finger on the deflation, as I accepted relegation months ago so it's not that. Maybe if we win tomorrow things might be brighter!

[NewClaret]

Eh ??? It was an absolute reality how well we did under previous ownership and how secure we were

The illusion was that, at the stroke of a pen, the very same people who built up such ‘security’ could undo it all by agreeing to a leveraged buy out. Which we all know they did, and I think factually used the ‘dry powder’ everyone felt provided said security, to fund part of it.

[boatshed bill]

The illusion was that, at the stroke of a pen, the very same people who built up such ‘security’ could undo it all by agreeing to a leveraged buy out. Which we all know they did, and I think factually used the ‘dry powder’ everyone felt provided said security, to fund part of it.

Did you want Mike Garlick out?

[NewClaret]

Did you want Mike Garlick out?

No, not at all.

I thought he was unnecessarily cautious. I argued on here vehemently in the summer pre-takeover we should invest £20m of our ‘dry powder’ in players. That being able to fund a much bigger spend it being only x% of total fees. I argued if we wanted to keep the slush funds we should raise it as debt, and speculate.

I was shot down, told nobody would ever lend to us, and we needed the £50-£80m we’d accumulated to protect against relegation. Few short months later, someone did lend us £65m and £37m of the pot was used to buy the owners shares, not protect against relegation.

Despite my frustrations though, I was never Garlick out but I think he ultimately duped us all. Nor was I Dyche out, despite the playing style in the last year.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The security wasn't an illusion at all. There was no risk of the club collapsing into financial chaos/administration/bankruptcy under the previous regimes. That risk is now there. Its not an immediate risk but the red flags are there for all to see. You can argue, reasonably, that the risks needed to be taken in order to compete at a PL level - but they are risks nonetheless.

Ask fans of other teams, or other neutral observers, what they think of the risks to a club that has been bought with a leveraged takeover with piles of debt loaded on to the club. What they think of a club whose finances are reliant on loans and debt and who spend over 100 million on transfers but look likely to be relegated. A club with an ownership that has little or no background in running a major football club and an inexperienced manager with a huge amount of power over transfers.

The risk isn't palpable yet because we got promoted and we are in the Premier League. But if we keep making mistakes in the transfer market and don't bounce back for another year of PL cash, the dangers will be much closer.

This is all part of the uneasiness that of course is amplified by the miserable results on the field from a team that doesn't really look or feel like a team but a collection of 'new hires'.

This reply is for the half a dozen or so replies to my post but Forza has done the best reply so I’ll specifically address that one.

I agree with large parts of the above, and I agree with large parts of your podcast (although everyone was bloody miserable today ). I agree with the bit about the transfer mistakes with too much trust put on an inexperienced manager (albeit despite that inexperience he is impressive and pleasant enough with, as he says, a similar DNA to Burnley, that I’d like him to continue long term).

The bit where I think the non financial people get into a muddle is this argument (which is wrong) about financial security.

You say there was no risk under the old owners, I’d say there was every risk. In hindsight. We can see they were determined to get a big return on their investment (as is their right). They chose the method of the buy out (leveraged). The seller has the power in that instance to pick and choose. What would have happened if Dyche had taken us down earlier? And not got us back up? Hindsight suggests a sharp exit, getting what sale proceeds they could (again, as is their right). We would have been in the doo-doo.

So I see it that the old regime were living on a wing and a prayer, got lucky (by Dyche’s brilliance) and got rich (er). Very different to Kilby who genuinely seemed to put the club ahead of himself. Now, there is risk, sure, but it is risk that at least offers us something as customers to enjoy. In the past it was Dyche we have to thank, now there is proper and meaningful investment that is at least as important as the manager, more so probably. But, as I said earlier, it is harder and harder now to stay up using little investment (I still doubt Luton but if they do it, it will be just once). We have no choice but to embrace this method. It is our last chance to play with the elite in our lifetimes.

[CoolClaret]

So I see it that the old regime were living on a wing and a prayer, got lucky (by Dyche’s brilliance) and got rich (er). Very different to Kilby who genuinely seemed to put the club ahead of himself. Now, there is risk, sure, but it is risk that at least offers us something as customers to enjoy. In the past it was Dyche we have to thank, now there is proper and meaningful investment that is at least as important as the manager, more so probably. But, as I said earlier, it is harder and harder now to stay up using little investment (I still doubt Luton but if they do it, it will be just once). We have no choice but to embrace this method. It is our last chance to play with the elite in our lifetimes.

Interviewing multiple candidates and taking a bloke that had been fired from Watford and certainly wasn't the biggest name, after being impressed by his vision and methodology (Well documented this btw) and then sticking with him and rewarding him with multiple long term contracts is quite the opposite of being 'lucky' - it's just making good business decisions.

Again, your post opens with textbook confirmation bias, then I have no idea what the end point is - no one can make such a prediction. Our current method certainly isn't the only way to skin a cat; there'll be other unfancied teams in the future that have success with a different method.

[Goliath]

Im not one to moan about us missing Tella and THb, i think both were a tad overrated on the pitch but I think a lot of the supposed detachment this season stems from their loss.

Tellas personality was contagious, he played with a smile on his face and he seemed to love playing for Burnley, THB was a leader and was another that loved playing for us and really engaged with the fans after games etc.

With those 2 plus Barnes gone and other crowd favourites Muric, Benson and Zaroury sidelined and replaced by players who have yet to build any link to the fans and to be honest have shown little interest in doing so, then it leaves us with a sense of detachment. This is why Brownhill, Cork, Rodriguez and Taylor are vital to this squad. In fact id probably say Taylor is now one of the biggest crowd favourites, which no offence to Taylor who is a solid left back, is a sad state of affairs.

The only remedy to this is winning games, then we see players smiling and interacting with fans. We've won one game at home all season so the opportunity just hasn't been there.

[Taffy on the wing]

It's hard to put my finger on but there is something strangely cold and distant about this team and I'm not really sure why.

Maybe it's the hangover from last season, but I just don't sense a strong team spirit amongst these players. They all look a bit thrown together and I don't get the impression they're willing to run through brick walls for each other, or for the manager, even.

We're also clearly lacking a few big personalities and leaders in the group.

I have to agree with others that completely revamping the team after their achievements last season was a major blunder. It wouldn't be a surprise if that's gone down like a lead balloon with the players and is a major cause of some of the issues we're seeing.

I'm not sure what the next steps are but I think it's going to be a very weird summer, whatever happens.

Ashley Barnes is a massive miss!.....also Tella & Maatson.....plus others.
We've not had a settled "TEAM" right from the start...there's been no chance for cohesion.
I think we have signed some wonderful players & am really looking forward to our team developing into something super-exciting & soon.

[Swizzlestick]

The GK change is a huge problem for me, but let’s not get into that again. Just too soon and Muric deserved a chance. We’ve not been helped by a steady run of injuries in terms of team stability. Borussia Moenchengladbach fans talked about how injury prone Beyer is, and so it’s proved. Taylor is now out, Berge out for crucial games particularly Luton, Koleosho who looked like he was about to be really effective out for the season and Foster’s problems really curtailed us.

[Jakubclaret]

Ashley Barnes is a massive miss!.....also Tella & Maatson.....plus others.
We've not had a settled "TEAM" right from the start...there's been no chance for cohesion.
I think we have signed some wonderful players & am really looking forward to our team developing into something super-exciting & soon.

You'll have a long wait for something that will never happen it's already widely acknowledged that the model is to develop & sell so on that basis as fast as something is assembled it will be dismantled. The team we have now will look far different in the championship & it wants to. The model discourages long term cohesion because different players will be coming & going often.

[Dyched]

I laugh and cringe in equal measure when someone says they’re “detached”.

Why? Because the club have let their favourite player go on loan or something. Or there has t been a recent manager Q&A, which I’m not sure there ever has been tbh.

Nope, it’s because we’re losing a lot. Next year we’ll be winning and they’ll feel all “attached” again.

Supporting a football team isn’t for everyone.

You know you’re just being a bit silly now.

No one can argue against a different “feel” to when we had our 1st PL season with Dyche. Players who earn’t the right to play. Yes they weren’t good enough but they tried. They cherished it knowing if it wasn’t for Dyche, Burnley and what they achieved the would probably never play in that league bar 2 or 3 of them. Everyone of them gave 100% each and every game.

I don’t like it wether it’s us or another team when a promotion winning team is ripped apart. It doesn’t do anyone any good and rarely ends well. Fans remember the feeling what players gave them over and over last season (Tella, Benson) to name just 2. Big moments, wonder goals to win games. They’ve been replaced with players that obviously aren’t good enough now but we’ve been told they’ve “potential”. That’s obviously frustrating for fans. We didn’t out play teams in the championship and create and take clear cut chances week after week. Yet VK thinks we will this season in the PL. Why? Why leave a guy on the bench that can, pull something out the blue and possibly win a game. That’s what fans are frustrated at. Same selections, same tactics, uninspired, crazy, stupid substitutions. With Dyche we had a leader not just on the pitch but off it. With VK he’s like an out of depth prime minister who’s lost which is clear to see.

[Nori1958]

You know you’re just being a bit silly now.

No one can argue against a different “feel” to when we had our 1st PL season with Dyche. Players who earn’t the right to play. Yes they weren’t good enough but they tried. They cherished it knowing if it wasn’t for Dyche, Burnley and what they achieved the would probably never play in that league bar 2 or 3 of them. Everyone of them gave 100% each and every game.

I don’t like it wether it’s us or another team when a promotion winning team is ripped apart. It doesn’t do anyone any good and rarely ends well. Fans remember the feeling what players gave them over and over last season (Tella, Benson) to name just 2. Big moments, wonder goals to win games. They’ve been replaced with players that obviously aren’t good enough now but we’ve been told they’ve “potential”. That’s obviously frustrating for fans. We didn’t out play teams in the championship and create and take clear cut chances week after week. Yet VK thinks we will this season in the PL. Why? Why leave a guy on the bench that can, pull something out the blue and possibly win a game. That’s what fans are frustrated at. Same selections, same tactics, uninspired, crazy, stupid substitutions. With Dyche we had a leader not just on the pitch but off it. With VK he’s like an out of depth prime minister who’s lost which is clear to see.

I get people are not happy with team selection, transfers etc, but is detached the correct word?....is it not just annoyance, frustration etc.....why would the wrong substitution make anyone feel detached from the club?

[dandeclaret]

I get people are not happy with team selection, transfers etc, but is detached the correct word?....is it not just annoyance, frustration etc.....why would the wrong substitution make anyone feel detached from the club?

there's plenty of examples on the previous pages explaining the detachment. People seem to want to keep bringing it back to purely on field stuff - that's not what those who say they feel detached are saying - they've given examples of on field, off field and their relationships with the club in various areas - be that identity, community, ownership profile etc.

As I said previously, you can agree with it, or disagree with it, but there's no mysticism to the things that are causing it.

[Nori1958]

there's plenty of examples on the previous pages explaining the detachment. People seem to want to keep bringing it back to purely on field stuff - that's not what those who say they feel detached are saying - they've given examples of on field, off field and their relationships with the club in various areas - be that identity, community, ownership profile etc.

As I said previously, you can agree with it, or disagree with it, but there's no mysticism to the things that are causing it.

The reason it keeps coming back to on field stuff is that this is the only example many have given

I can understand supporters groups feeling more detached from the club as they seem to have been pushed aside, but for the average match attending fan nothing has changed from last season other than the on field stuff

[NewClaret]

You know you’re just being a bit silly now.

No one can argue against a different “feel” to when we had our 1st PL season with Dyche. Players who earn’t the right to play. Yes they weren’t good enough but they tried. They cherished it knowing if it wasn’t for Dyche, Burnley and what they achieved the would probably never play in that league bar 2 or 3 of them. Everyone of them gave 100% each and every game.

I don’t like it wether it’s us or another team when a promotion winning team is ripped apart. It doesn’t do anyone any good and rarely ends well. Fans remember the feeling what players gave them over and over last season (Tella, Benson) to name just 2. Big moments, wonder goals to win games. They’ve been replaced with players that obviously aren’t good enough now but we’ve been told they’ve “potential”. That’s obviously frustrating for fans. We didn’t out play teams in the championship and create and take clear cut chances week after week. Yet VK thinks we will this season in the PL. Why? Why leave a guy on the bench that can, pull something out the blue and possibly win a game. That’s what fans are frustrated at. Same selections, same tactics, uninspired, crazy, stupid substitutions. With Dyche we had a leader not just on the pitch but off it. With VK he’s like an out of depth prime minister who’s lost which is clear to see.

Not really, I am rarely silly on purpose

With respect, and I’m not being a ****head here as I appreciate your well-written response, but it all just comes across to me as “my favourite players aren’t playing any more, so I’m mad about it”. Which I just can’t get on board with tbh. That’s not to say I didn’t love last years team, I’m just not personally so attached to them, maybe because:

* nearly all of them were new, replacing older players who had been here years but because we were winning people overlook that Maatsen displaced Charlie, for example. Now Charlie is back most are criticising no LB was purchased, despite other posts on here saying he’s a ‘fan favourite’ now due to his longevity :s :s In short, everyone got behind that team from the off, without any such sense of detachment from the old side, because it was winning.

* 30-odd % were loans anyway. I never saw Tella, THB or Maatsen as Burnley players - because they weren’t - and really if fans became attached to a loan player it is NOT the clubs fault. At least one didn’t want to join anyway. They were here to develop their careers. Forever grateful to them, but they weren’t ‘our’ players. I find it really quite strange and disappointing actually that some fans seem to support them more than some players who actually wanted to sign permanently with us. Yes, those replacements might not look world beaters in this league but we’ve not seen them in the league below so may very well actually turn out to be better players for us (Ramsey was stand-out for Boro, for example).

Then there’s my view that of last years team, a lot are are actually playing which is overlooked: Roberts, Al Dakhil, Beyer, Brownhill, Charlie (bit part last year), Cullen, Jay have played. Ekdal playing now too. That’s 8 players all getting game time, yet I’d argue nearly all of those have received absolute pelters on here for their performances on here.

Lost count of the times I see Brownhill isn’t good enough, Jay is past it, Roberts not Prem level, Beyer can’t defend, Al Dakhil needs dropping, etc, etc. They’re all dug out when we lose - old or new.

That leaves Muric, Benson & Zaroury that it really boils down to where this sense of detachment comes from. Really? 3 players.

FWIW, I agree about Muric, Benson has been injured at least in part & at the start of the season, and Anass has been pretty poor when he has been given chances.

So for me it boils down to one player I’d really like to have seen start, plus more of Benson off the bench. I can’t get myself too worked up about that to feel detached. Especially since I believe Kompany has forgotten more about football than I’ll ever know and has all the data and training performances as additional data points in which to make decisions. I trust him to make the right ones and why wouldn’t I? He took us up last year.

Re: subs - I’m not saying he’s got them all right. Not at all. And I’m not a fan of Tresor in the slightest. But in the main I’ve not felt he’s made terrible mistakes. Even the Luton ones I could tell what he was trying to do and it very nearly worked bar an awful VAR decision. We always used to deride Dyche for lack of subs/no plan b too.

In summary - it’ll be interesting to see if next year, the same players, subs, etc reignite fans sense of attachment when winning more often. Although I would prefer they start that today.

[Mixedkompany]

There seems to me an over simplification here.
Some people are saying if we win then we will feel more attached to the club/manager/ team. If we lose then it’s the opposite.
That’s not the situation at all. At least not for me.
For the reasons many people have stated there is a feeling of detachment or less association with the club. There certainly is for me. It’s the new identity and philosophy. The commercial approach but not by any means just a lack of VK Q and A sessions. That’s just one thing that’s different and there are many others.
The approach of the board and VK is revolutionary in the context of what we have experienced over recent years. I think something new was needed. And it appears so do many others. However, I do feel it’s been very immediate and extreme. If it works I will be delighted but if it fails then I’m concerned about the finances and how far we may fall. The playing style and collection of saleable assets is one thing but the feeling of detachment comes from many of the changes others have noted on the PR and media side. We did need improvement and evolution but for a community club I think it’s gone too far.