Q and A Sessions with VK

[Mixedkompany]

I recall these used to happen with SD and previous managers. Sometimes with Directors involved.
Is this something the new ownership have discontinued?
I think there are plenty of us who would like to understand transfer policy and player movement a little better. And other matters.
Or is this an example of the detachment that some supporters are feeling?

[agreenwood]

Occasionally Dyche would appear at some unofficial events and so a Q&A and you’d get the odd bit of info on here, but I don’t remember too many official Q&A sessions with either Dyche or the directors.

Towards the end, the main players on the previous board very rarely even did in-house media, never mind Q&As with fans.

ALK aren’t accessible beyond official channels, but they are no worse than the last board in that regard.

[Goliath]

I hardly see any community stuff with Kompany. Surely its part of the job. Its disappointed me a little bit tbh.

I remember Eddie Howe and Tindall being forced to serve fish and chips from a local chippy at one point whilst looking like they wished they could be literally anywhere else. That was amusing.

[claretonthecoast1882]

This detached feeling some have is weird.

Have any of those who feel detached ever explained what used to happen to make them feel attached ? Did they get special treatment ?

[RVclaret]

This detached feeling some have is weird.

Have any of those who feel detached ever explained what used to happen to make them feel attached ? Did they get special treatment ?

Seems like it’s the latest buzzword

[TheFamilyCat]

It's as if Kevin Long used to pop round for his tea every Thursday or something.

[NewClaret]

I hardly see any community stuff with Kompany. Surely its part of the job. Its disappointed me a little bit tbh.

I remember Eddie Howe and Tindall being forced to serve fish and chips from a local chippy at one point whilst looking like they wished they could be literally anywhere else. That was amusing.

So you’d like to see Kompany serve fish & chips looking unhappy about it?!

[Nori1958]

Seems like it’s the latest buzzword

Certainly a buzzword, but I haven't seen anyone explain why they feel that way, what has changed to make them feel that way, or when this change took place.

[TheFamilyCat]

Seems like it’s the latest buzzword

And sounds more melodramatic than "familiarity" which is what they probably mean.

We had a manager who, in the modern game had an almost unheard of length of tenure, plus players like Mee, Barnes, Tarkowski and Pope (Cork, Taylor and JBG are still here, btw). You could argue they were loyal and stuck with us but i don'trecall turning many offers down for them. Over time, they became synonymous with Burnley.

Nobody seemed to be complaining about "detatchment" when we were strolling to the Championship. Funny that.

[NewClaret]

This detached feeling some have is weird.

Have any of those who feel detached ever explained what used to happen to make them feel attached ? Did they get special treatment ?

I laugh and cringe in equal measure when someone says they’re “detached”.

Why? Because the club have let their favourite player go on loan or something. Or there has t been a recent manager Q&A, which I’m not sure there ever has been tbh.

Nope, it’s because we’re losing a lot. Next year we’ll be winning and they’ll feel all “attached” again.

Supporting a football team isn’t for everyone.

[CoolClaret]

I laugh and cringe in equal measure when someone says they’re “detached”.

Why? Because the club have let their favourite player go on loan or something. Or there has t been a recent manager Q&A, which I’m not sure there ever has been tbh.

Nope, it’s because we’re losing a lot. Next year we’ll be winning and they’ll feel all “attached” again.

Supporting a football team isn’t for everyone.

Losing with a massive turnover of players that haven't particularly done anything of note in a Claret shirt.

Then there's been some games where it has been really putrid, meandering purposeless play and looked like passengers - which is a far cry from last year (even in the cup defeats against United and City we really went for it).

Said it many a time but you have to ride the wave after promotion, rather than making so many changes.

Can scoff at it all you like but Dyche always used to talk about 'alignment' and how important it is. It's basically that repackaged / that angle

[NewClaret]

Losing with a massive turnover of players that haven't particularly done anything of note in a Claret shirt.

Then there's been some games where it has been really putrid, meandering purposeless play and looked like passengers - which is a far cry from last year (even in the cup defeats against United and City we really went for it).

Said it many a time but you have to ride the wave after promotion, rather than making so many changes.

Can scoff at it all you like but Dyche always used to talk about 'alignment' and how important it is. It's basically that repackaged / that angle

Is this your way of saying you’re feeling “detached”?

[elwaclaret]

Seems like it’s the latest buzzword

Not a word I have used, but I understand it. Burnley have always had favourite players and continuity across several seasons where fans got to knows players games and got a feel for the team. I’m the first to admit I could name teams from the seventies onward, even now. I’m not sure I could name all our first team squad without wracking my brain where I used to know who was likely to step up and how they would alter the team dynamic.

It is all very different, and in all honesty I feel less invested or wanted by the club as a whole than ever before. I’m not crying about it, which on its own says a lot… but I except that in my fifties I am now being left behind and my type of support is not as important in this world of fast moving financial business.

I’m happy my youth was spent loving football matches and not doing constant equations over financial affairs that seems to have become the legacy of the post football manager generation and the modern view of supporting a ‘club,’ where players are seen as nothing but commodities (even if they always were by club officials).

[Goliath]

So you’d like to see Kompany serve fish & chips looking unhappy about it?!

They were two unrelated thoughts. But as far as ive seen he hasnt been out and about visiting schools etc and i dont think i saw him at the annual hospital visit although that might usually just be players.
I do think its important that he engages with the community in some form, its always been a part of the role.

[CoolClaret]

Is this your way of saying you’re feeling “detached”?

Not particularly 'my way', no.

For me - I just find a lot of the decisions baffling and not conducive to squad harmony/unity and I think it's fair in the results on the pitch.

Seen games like I've said where we've just been passengers and lots of sulking/heads down/defeated after 20 minutes - not the signs of a proper 'team'.

That did start to change and pickup sort of 6/7 games ago, sadly a bit tepid again against Luton, but we've got another opportunity to have another go at it.

[Mixedkompany]

I happen to be geographically detached in any case. Rarely get to many games these days but that should pick up next season.
I rely on media outlets and claret news. Which these days is more prevalent than ever.
There was certainly a ‘ one club’ mantra under Dyche that I felt was inclusive and positive. That’s what the media trots out to us and provides a philosophy we can choose to buy into or not. But it is nevertheless positive encouragement.
Q and A sessions would certainly appeal to me and provide a platform to get some clarity. Albeit the questions can be pre edited/selected. Even the media interviews and statements seem tame by comparison these days.
The annual player awards were perhaps a good example of positive attachment to the club. I attended a few and got to chat to several of the players. As did my son, aged around 16 at the time. It was for him quite a big deal, getting to meet premier league players and come away with a signed match ball. The player awards don’t seem to be around these days either.
These may be examples of people now feeling ‘ detached’ and I can understand that.
The last dinner I recall was an expensive affair in Manchester with VK a couple of years ago. I appreciate times change and the club is and has to be more commercial now. These may be examples of what people are feeling.

[dandeclaret]

A few potential insights on this.

1) Kompany doesn't do community stuff..... flip side, the Gary Neville interview, Bellamy Podcasts, Kompany himself - explains his work ethic and amount of time spent at the club working on football.... appears to be more than any managers around. If so, it leaves limited time

2) Q&A Sessions etc - don't really remember Dyche doing them in public, but there was the club produced Turf Moor programme that went out on Clarets Player that was a 45-60 minute show monthly (I think) , often with the current manager or current players, and the co-chairmen discussing the club, recent results etc. There's nothing like that any more is there?

3) Feeling of detachment and not mentioned during last season.... I did notice last season feedback about supporter club engagement being reduced, fan feedback sessions being cut and player boards disappearing, leading to a sense of frustration with loyal and long term fans of the club. The club has appointed a fan advisory board, but other than age / race / gender etc profile, I am not sure how they are collating and representing the views of fans - the mechanism for this was the supporters club meetings. Was the supporters club player of the year event still on? I don't remember personally if it happened..... but that might give some feeling of it.

4) Playing style. The crowd on the turf have always appeared to enjoy a faster tempo to the game, and that was prevalent last year in a completely modern style of play, along with some physical effort or exertion - Barnes pushing the keeper in the net seemed to get as many comments as him actually scoring, and we've always known Burnley fans love a runner - even if they're technically very limited.... the current playing staff are technically very good evidently, but don't always play at a high tempo, or with physicality - fans aren't used to it - it's not a long leap to it doesn't feel like Burnley

5) Turnover of players - this is a new way of operating for the club isn't it? Lots of players in, lots of players out, no real press interviews or much outside of match day ones - traditionally I think a segment of Burnley fans got to know players and their personalities, that's not happening as much now - it feels different.

starter for 10 on explaining it - whether you agree with it, whether you disagree with it, surely there's enough comment floating about on here / twitter / podcasts etc to understand the mechanics behind the feeling?

[claretonthecoast1882]

I can recall Kompany meeting local students of different schools / colleges at least twice last year without really having to think too hard.

[Nori1958]

They were two unrelated thoughts. But as far as ive seen he hasnt been out and about visiting schools etc and i dont think i saw him at the annual hospital visit although that might usually just be players.
I do think its important that he engages with the community in some form, its always been a part of the role.

The players certainly do their bit in the community, hardly a week goes by without a picture of them doing something.
I don't think many managers get too involved, Dyche didn't do a lot, or those before him

[GetIntoEm]

Kompany does do community stuff. You're selectively forgetting it.

In terms of detachment I've had more conversations with ALK board members since they took over than the previous crowd (which was zero), they sloped straight into the bob Lord. Previous to that Teasdale was the last one up for a chat.

So in terms of fan interaction, the current crowd and night and day ahead of the previous ones.

I can only think some people had privileges with the previous owners that haven't continued and a bit bitter about it

[jrgbfc]

Some pretty stupid comments on here. Human beings aren't robots, surely it's normal for people to have different attitudes about things?
Plenty of reasons why people could feel fed up with it at the moment, from the pitch to the boardroom.

[dougcollins]

It's as if Kevin Long used to pop round for his tea every Thursday or something.

He did, but he tripped over the rug and scared the cat so I stopped him coming.

[Nori1958]

Some pretty stupid comments on here. Human beings aren't robots, surely it's normal for people to have different attitudes about things?
Plenty of reasons why people could feel fed up with it at the moment, from the pitch to the boardroom.

Fed up... I might understand, but detached?

[Mixedkompany]

Some good points from Dande there. What we are also seeing is the inevitable change from localism to a broader media outreach. We have American owners and investors. They know where the money is and they are spreading the word. Perfectly understandable. We could see the media evolution when the likes of Darren Bentley were moved on. He was relatable and a great guy. But he was ‘old’ Burnley at a time when a bigger commercial approach was developing. He helped me with a number of BFC things during his time, on a personal level. Things you couldn’t attain and connect with at the bigger clubs.
It feels different and it is different. Mission to Burnley certainly gets us out there but it doesn’t make me feel more ‘attached’.

[quoonbeatz]

Dismissing people saying they feel 'detached' as a buzzword is a bit, well, dismissive. Obviously people weren't saying that last season but not because we were winning. The club, the manager and the players did so much last season to get it together and bring everyone with them and even if we hadn't been so successful, it felt a lot like the start of something.

When you're riding the crest of the promotion wave, the one thing you don't do is rip it up and start again. Everybody knows that and it's that that has made it feel a bit like this is just a bunch of players playing for Burnley, rather than a team like we felt we had for the last 10 years.

I'm apathetic about the PL as it's not really a sporting competition anymore but we've practically bombed ourselves out of it this year by making glaringly obvious mistakes. Would our team from last year have done better? It's likely we'd still be down and around where we are because that's the size of the task but I think we'd have felt a bit more in it together.

[Goliath]

A few potential insights on this.

1) Kompany doesn't do community stuff..... flip side, the Gary Neville interview, Bellamy Podcasts, Kompany himself - explains his work ethic and amount of time spent at the club working on football.... appears to be more than any managers around. If so, it leaves limited time

2) Q&A Sessions etc - don't really remember Dyche doing them in public, but there was the club produced Turf Moor programme that went out on Clarets Player that was a 45-60 minute show monthly (I think) , often with the current manager or current players, and the co-chairmen discussing the club, recent results etc. There's nothing like that any more is there?

3) Feeling of detachment and not mentioned during last season.... I did notice last season feedback about supporter club engagement being reduced, fan feedback sessions being cut and player boards disappearing, leading to a sense of frustration with loyal and long term fans of the club. The club has appointed a fan advisory board, but other than age / race / gender etc profile, I am not sure how they are collating and representing the views of fans - the mechanism for this was the supporters club meetings. Was the supporters club player of the year event still on? I don't remember personally if it happened..... but that might give some feeling of it.

4) Playing style. The crowd on the turf have always appeared to enjoy a faster tempo to the game, and that was prevalent last year in a completely modern style of play, along with some physical effort or exertion - Barnes pushing the keeper in the net seemed to get as many comments as him actually scoring, and we've always known Burnley fans love a runner - even if they're technically very limited.... the current playing staff are technically very good evidently, but don't always play at a high tempo, or with physicality - fans aren't used to it - it's not a long leap to it doesn't feel like Burnley

5) Turnover of players - this is a new way of operating for the club isn't it? Lots of players in, lots of players out, no real press interviews or much outside of match day ones - traditionally I think a segment of Burnley fans got to know players and their personalities, that's not happening as much now - it feels different.

starter for 10 on explaining it - whether you agree with it, whether you disagree with it, surely there's enough comment floating about on here / twitter / podcasts etc to understand the mechanics behind the feeling?

Not sure about the first point. He or even his coaching staff cant spare an hour or 2 to go and visit a few schools meet some locals etc. Just for contrxt im not one of those that really agrees with the feeling detached thing, but i do think the close link to the town is rapidly disappearing. Players, manager and chairman all play a role in this.
I remember Danny Ings bring particularly proactive with this kind of thing, he was fantastic on and off the pitch.

[HitchinClaret]

Kompany does do community stuff. You're selectively forgetting it.

In terms of detachment I've had more conversations with ALK board members since they took over than the previous crowd (which was zero), they sloped straight into the bob Lord. Previous to that Teasdale was the last one up for a chat.

So in terms of fan interaction, the current crowd and night and day ahead of the previous ones.

I can only think some people had privileges with the previous owners that haven't continued and a bit bitter about it

Nail on the head for a lot of the griping I think
"I can only think some people had privileges with the previous owners that haven't continued and a bit bitter about it"

[ClaretTony]

3) Feeling of detachment and not mentioned during last season.... I did notice last season feedback about supporter club engagement being reduced, fan feedback sessions being cut and player boards disappearing, leading to a sense of frustration with loyal and long term fans of the club. The club has appointed a fan advisory board, but other than age / race / gender etc profile, I am not sure how they are collating and representing the views of fans - the mechanism for this was the supporters club meetings. Was the supporters club player of the year event still on? I don't remember personally if it happened..... but that might give some feeling of it.

I can comment on some of this. Supporter club engagement has not been reduced but withdrawn. We asked for some support in promoting the foodbank collections but were told by Russell Ball that the community has nothing to do with the football club. They were not prepared or interested in offering any support. We did have a meeting with some senior community staff during last season and they said it had become very, very difficult at best to get support from the club.

Supporters Club Player of the Year Event - no go I'm afraid. Ball said no to it and then the club announced there was an only opportunity to meet VK and the players but you had to travel to Manchester and pay £200 for a ticket.

It's a shame because the supporters club have done so much good work alongside the club over the years. I hate to think what a certain Mr Beecroft would make now of the situation.

[ClaretTony]

Kompany does do community stuff. You're selectively forgetting it.

In terms of detachment I've had more conversations with ALK board members since they took over than the previous crowd (which was zero), they sloped straight into the bob Lord. Previous to that Teasdale was the last one up for a chat.

So in terms of fan interaction, the current crowd and night and day ahead of the previous ones.

I can only think some people had privileges with the previous owners that haven't continued and a bit bitter about it

I do know that Kompany does community stuff and still does a lot in Manchester.

But I don't think you can have any understanding of what fan interaction and fan engagement means given your comments. For the most recent twenty years or so, under the Kilby board and beyond, it was excellent, with much of the communication at the club coming from the CEO.

[Goliath]

I can comment on some of this. Supporter club engagement has not been reduced but withdrawn. We asked for some support in promoting the foodbank collections but were told by Russell Ball that the community has nothing to do with the football club. They were not prepared or interested in offering any support. We did have a meeting with some senior community staff during last season and they said it had become very, very difficult at best to get support from the club.

Supporters Club Player of the Year Event - no go I'm afraid. Ball said no to it and then the club announced there was an only opportunity to meet VK and the players but you had to travel to Manchester and pay £200 for a ticket.

It's a shame because the supporters club have done so much good work alongside the club over the years. I hate to think what a certain Mr Beecroft would make now of the situation.

All of this is poor but i genuinely think the event being in Manchester was a disgrace.

[Goliath]

I do know that Kompany does community stuff and still does a lot in Manchester.

But I don't think you can have any understanding of what fan interaction and fan engagement means given your comments. For the most recent twenty years or so, under the Kilby board and beyond, it was excellent, with much of the communication at the club coming from the CEO.

What community stuff is he doing, not saying he doesn't i just haven't seen any. Is it not shown in the local media or on the club website?

[forzagranata]

I think it all comes down to another over-used word 'identity'.

Whatever people thought of it towards the end of the Dyche era, there was a clear identity to the club in that time. We were hard-working, united, grounded, battlers, who didn't care what people thought about us and were proud of over-achieving. We had players we knew well and had grown to respect/like/appreciate.

We've had 37 new signings since VK took over - and we've got to the stage, after 18 months, when some of the 'new faces' are already leaving. It feels like there is a revolving door. It is hard to build identity and attachment with that level of turnover.

Off the field, we had a well-established identity as a club with local owners and a board that lived within its means and tried to run a tight ship. We now have Americans owners who have decided to gamble with taking out large loans and who believe they can make a significant profit from a high turnover of player trading.

Its been an incredibly rapid and radical series of changes and so its not surprising that many feel we have lost our identity as a club - because we have.

[NewClaret]

Dismissing people saying they feel 'detached' as a buzzword is a bit, well, dismissive. Obviously people weren't saying that last season but not because we were winning. The club, the manager and the players did so much last season to get it together and bring everyone with them and even if we hadn't been so successful, it felt a lot like the start of something.

When you're riding the crest of the promotion wave, the one thing you don't do is rip it up and start again. Everybody knows that and it's that that has made it feel a bit like this is just a bunch of players playing for Burnley, rather than a team like we felt we had for the last 10 years.

I'm apathetic about the PL as it's not really a sporting competition anymore but we've practically bombed ourselves out of it this year by making glaringly obvious mistakes. Would our team from last year have done better? It's likely we'd still be down and around where we are because that's the size of the task but I think we'd have felt a bit more in it together.

To pick up on those couple of points in bold, what you’re saying is that if the exact same circumstances were true but we were winning this season, everyone would feel “attached”. Hence by definition the cause of “detachment” isn’t the circumstances but the outcome (not winning).

Clearly it’s much easier to bring everyone with them when you’re winning. Kompany can’t be doing three big cheers to the away end after a loss. Tbh, I don’t see too much they’re doing from this season to last. The difference is the results.

To your last point, I completely dispute that; if last years team were getting hammered like we are this year we would be having it all on here - that ALK should have strengthened x position or y position, that they’d failed to invest, completely clueless to think a Champ team could compete without strengthening, that they’re money-grabbing scoundrels trying to screw the club over by banking a years PL revenue and disappearing off back to America, etc. There would be absolutely no sense of “we’re all in this together” at all.

[ClaretTony]

What community stuff is he doing, not saying he doesn't i just haven't seen any. Is it not shown in the local media or on the club website?

Mainly homeless charities in Manchester I think

[NewClaret]

What community stuff is he doing, not saying he doesn't i just haven't seen any. Is it not shown in the local media or on the club website?

To be fair as well, by all accounts - from many different sources - he works incredibly hard and long hours.

Community/charity work is commendable but I’d say I’d like his focus 100% on the team and forthcoming games for now.

[Big Vinny K]

I think it all comes down to another over-used word 'identity'.

Whatever people thought of it towards the end of the Dyche era, there was a clear identity to the club in that time. We were hard-working, united, grounded, battlers, who didn't care what people thought about us and were proud of over-achieving. We had players we knew well and had grown to respect/like/appreciate.

We've had 37 new signings since VK took over - and we've got to the stage, after 18 months, when some of the 'new faces' are already leaving. It feels like there is a revolving door. It is hard to build identity and attachment with that level of turnover.

Off the field, we had a well-established identity as a club with local owners and a board that lived within its means and tried to run a tight ship. We now have Americans owners who have decided to gamble with taking out large loans and who believe they can make a significant profit from a high turnover of player trading.

Its been an incredibly rapid and radical series of changes and so its not surprising that many feel we have lost our identity as a club - because we have.

Completely agree that “identity” is massively overused in football these days - and especially in the Premier League where it’s now largely meaningless.

I think under Dyche we were definitely known for certain things. Depending on which way the wind blew or more importantly how we were doing the things that were associated with us were either negative (hoof ball, 4-4-2, old fashioned style etc) or positive attributes (gritty, determined, proper defenders, direct etc)

But the truth is that over that long period Dyche was in charge our style of play changed depending on the players we had at our disposal and which league we were in. We played cracking football at times and struggled at others.

If VK is here as long as Dyche we will also become known for certain things - and already we have had the negative and positive spin on it.

Which club in the PL now has any kind of real “identity” ?
Just look at the owners of the individual clubs - which set of supporters could relate to any of them or feel connected in any way. Of course Liverpool feel connected to Klopp but watch them moan about their American owners when the team are not doing well.

Clubs like Man City try and create an artificial identity through their Spanish PR and marketing teams !!

Football in general has never been more disconnected from the fans - the Premier League is identified by one single thing only…..money.

[quoonbeatz]

To pick up on those couple of points in bold, what you’re saying is that if the exact same circumstances were true but we were winning this season, everyone would feel “attached”. Hence by definition the cause of “detachment” isn’t the circumstances but the outcome (not winning).

Clearly it’s much easier to bring everyone with them when you’re winning. Kompany can’t be doing three big cheers to the away end after a loss. Tbh, I don’t see too much they’re doing from this season to last. The difference is the results.

To your last point, I completely dispute that; if last years team were getting hammered like we are this year we would be having it all on here - that ALK should have strengthened x position or y position, that they’d failed to invest, completely clueless to think a Champ team could compete without strengthening, that they’re money-grabbing scoundrels trying to screw the club over by banking a years PL revenue and disappearing off back to America, etc. There would be absolutely no sense of “we’re all in this together” at all.

You've spectacularly misunderstood what I'm saying, judging by this odd reply. Did you misread the first bit you bolded? Was last season your first season?

The latter years under Dyche were an absolute grind but, and I only speak for myself, I felt there was more of a connection with the team and the club. We certainly weren't winning then.

I'm certainly not arsed about Kompany doing 3 cheers to the fans, it's cringey enough when weve won. I'm not that arsed about the owners either & I wasn't that arsed with the previous lot; I'm a football fan, not a business fan.

The point remains that when you're on a high, you build on it slowly, you don't tear it up. That team last season had something special together and changing too much too soon has has a significantly detrimental effect. The players from last season will have felt that and so have a lot of fans.

[CoolClaret]

To pick up on those couple of points in bold, what you’re saying is that if the exact same circumstances were true but we were winning this season, everyone would feel “attached”. Hence by definition the cause of “detachment” isn’t the circumstances but the outcome (not winning).

Clearly it’s much easier to bring everyone with them when you’re winning. Kompany can’t be doing three big cheers to the away end after a loss. Tbh, I don’t see too much they’re doing from this season to last. The difference is the results.

To your last point, I completely dispute that; if last years team were getting hammered like we are this year we would be having it all on here - that ALK should have strengthened x position or y position, that they’d failed to invest, completely clueless to think a Champ team could compete without strengthening, that they’re money-grabbing scoundrels trying to screw the club over by banking a years PL revenue and disappearing off back to America, etc. There would be absolutely no sense of “we’re all in this together” at all.

It's not though - I have highlighted reasons why previously.

The applicaiton has been very poor at times, heads dropping after going a goal behind - it's that sort of thing.

It's not the losing aspect at all. Heck, we lost at Ewood and at home against The Fiddlers in 2009/10 but the first half of the season loss felt so much different than the one in the second half after Coyle left - the away game was **** to lose like but the players battled and gave it their all.
(one example off the top of my head)

There's a lot more nuance to it than you and others are suggesting, football is certainly more complex than plonk 11 good players together and get results, there's a lot of dynamics involved in cultivating a team.

[CoolClaret]

You've spectacularly misunderstood what I'm saying, judging by this odd reply. Did you misread the first bit you bolded? Was last season your first season?

The latter years under Dyche were an absolute grind but, and I only speak for myself, I felt there was more of a connection with the team and the club. We certainly weren't winning then.

I'm certainly not arsed about Kompany doing 3 cheers to the fans, it's cringey enough when weve won. I'm not that arsed about the owners either & I wasn't that arsed with the previous lot; I'm a football fan, not a business fan.

The point remains that when you're on a high, you build on it slowly, you don't tear it up. That team last season had something special together and changing too much too soon has has a significantly detrimental effect. The players from last season will have felt that and so have a lot of fans.

It's literally this simple.

[agreenwood]

The flip side to all this of course is that if you went back 2-3 years on here, there was also a sense of apathy and detachment towards the team and the old board.

“Stale” was the “buzzword” back then.

Similar in post ITV-Digital Stan day, much of Cotterill’s reign, Law’s time and a lot of Howe’s stint.

Things always seem shitter when the team aren’t doing well.

[CoolClaret]

The flip side to all this of course is that if you went back 2-3 years on here, there was also a sense of apathy and detachment towards the team and the old board.

“Stale” was the “buzzword” back then.

Similar in post ITV-Digital Stan day, much of Cotterill’s reign, Law’s time and a lot of Howe’s stint.

Things always seem shitter when the team aren’t doing well.

It isn't a binary choice between 'stale' and 'detached' by the way; that just highlights the problems at that particular time, which were evident for everyone to see.

[jedi_master]

You've spectacularly misunderstood what I'm saying, judging by this odd reply. Did you misread the first bit you bolded? Was last season your first season?

The latter years under Dyche were an absolute grind but, and I only speak for myself, I felt there was more of a connection with the team and the club. We certainly weren't winning then.

I'm certainly not arsed about Kompany doing 3 cheers to the fans, it's cringey enough when weve won. I'm not that arsed about the owners either & I wasn't that arsed with the previous lot; I'm a football fan, not a business fan.

The point remains that when you're on a high, you build on it slowly, you don't tear it up. That team last season had something special together and changing too much too soon has has a significantly detrimental effect. The players from last season will have felt that and so have a lot of fans.

All of this is absolutely spot on. We just needed evolution, not revolution.

I’m still onboard the Kompany train even if I’m not certain of where the destination is. I believe we will bounce back straight away - the key will be what we do next time we’re in the PL. The same mistakes cannot be made by the manager and the board as they have absolutely messed up with their transfer strategy. Spectacularly.

[Goliath]

Mainly homeless charities in Manchester I think

Ok, think he was involved in this before he joined the club and thats commendable but again this is Manchester related. Just my opinion but i do think he needs to be showing his face in the town a lot more often than he does, what an inspiration for kids that would be to have a Premier League winner talking to them. It really needn't take away from his managerial work, thats a kop out. Two or three hours during international breaks should be very doable.

[claretgimmer]

Not a word I have used, but I understand it. Burnley have always had favourite players and continuity across several seasons where fans got to knows players games and got a feel for the team. I’m the first to admit I could name teams from the seventies onward, even now. I’m not sure I could name all our first team squad without wracking my brain where I used to know who was likely to step up and how they would alter the team dynamic.

It is all very different, and in all honesty I feel less invested or wanted by the club as a whole than ever before. I’m not crying about it, which on its own says a lot… but I except that in my fifties I am now being left behind and my type of support is not as important in this world of fast moving financial business.

I’m happy my youth was spent loving football matches and not doing constant equations over financial affairs that seems to have become the legacy of the post football manager generation and the modern view of supporting a ‘club,’ where players are seen as nothing but commodities (even if they always were by club officials).

Couldn`t have put it better, but obviously some people don`t see it the same way so we must be some sort of pariahs in football terms

PS been going on the Turf since early 60`s so the winning/losing suggestion, well you know what to do with that argument.

[Nori1958]

I can comment on some of this. Supporter club engagement has not been reduced but withdrawn. We asked for some support in promoting the foodbank collections but were told by Russell Ball that the community has nothing to do with the football club. They were not prepared or interested in offering any support. We did have a meeting with some senior community staff during last season and they said it had become very, very difficult at best to get support from the club.

Supporters Club Player of the Year Event - no go I'm afraid. Ball said no to it and then the club announced there was an only opportunity to meet VK and the players but you had to travel to Manchester and pay £200 for a ticket.

It's a shame because the supporters club have done so much good work alongside the club over the years. I hate to think what a certain Mr Beecroft would make now of the situation.

If the club don't want supporters clubs doing these events and collections at the club, could they not arrange to hold them away from the ground. Food collections points on the way to the ground, or in the local pubs. Player of the year event could be held elsewhere, or would the club ban the players from attending?

Perhaps these ideas have been looked into and are not feasible, I haven't seen it reported.

[taio]

If the club don't want supporters clubs doing these events and collections at the club, could they not arrange to hold them away from the ground. Food collections points on the way to the ground, or in the local pubs. Player of the year event could be held elsewhere, or would the club ban the players from attending?

Perhaps these ideas have been looked into and are not feasible, I haven't seen it reported.

No way the players would turn up to an alternative event

[agreenwood]

It isn't a binary choice between 'stale' and 'detached' by the way; that just highlights the problems at that particular time, which were evident for everyone to see.

No, but I think plenty of people were feeling fed up and losing interest. Not sure if that’s the exact definition of “detached”, but it’s in the same territory.

I’ve certainly felt that way plenty of times over the years, then change comes and I’m engaged again - never more so than last year when it felt so fresh and exciting.

I guess you could say what’s different this season is how quickly the atmosphere around the club has changed, but I think that’s more to do with how much this season has shocked people. I don’t think even the most pessimistic of fans envisaged us having won only 3 of the first 22 games.

Had we been doing better on the pitch I doubt most would be worried too much about the number of Q&A’s VK was doing or the extent to which ALK engage with fans. I appreciate that kind of thing is important to some people, but I think most are generally happy when the team is doing well and they can afford to attend matches.

[CoolClaret]

No, but I think plenty of people were feeling fed up and losing interest. Not sure if that’s the exact definition of “detached”, but it’s in the same territory.

I’ve certainly felt that way plenty of times over the years, then change comes and I’m engaged again - never more so than last year when it felt so fresh and exciting.

I guess you could say what’s different this season is how quickly the atmosphere around the club has changed, but I think that’s more to do with how much this season has shocked people. I don’t think even the most pessimistic of fans envisaged us having won only 3 of the first 22 games.

Had we been doing better on the pitch I doubt most would be worried too much about the number of Q&A’s VK was doing or the extent to which ALK engage with fans. I appreciate that kind of thing is important to some people, but I think most are generally happy when the team is doing well and they can afford to attend matches.

Agreed in parts - I'm not that fussed about VK doing Q&As etc in all honesty - though him referencing last season a lot whilst simultaneously discarding a lot of that team is a bit hypocritical.

My entire point on this and has been throughout the season is that there's just more to building a team and succeeding than plonking good players together and expecting it to work.

Maybe reign in on the objective-data-first-at-all-times approach, and maybe leaning a bit more into the subjective-feeling approach.

There's a reason we have historically punched up well above our weight for large parts of our History - and that's fostering a togetherness and a team that fights for the manager, each other and for the fans.

[NewClaret]

You've spectacularly misunderstood what I'm saying, judging by this odd reply. Did you misread the first bit you bolded? Was last season your first season?

The latter years under Dyche were an absolute grind but, and I only speak for myself, I felt there was more of a connection with the team and the club. We certainly weren't winning then.

I'm certainly not arsed about Kompany doing 3 cheers to the fans, it's cringey enough when weve won. I'm not that arsed about the owners either & I wasn't that arsed with the previous lot; I'm a football fan, not a business fan.

The point remains that when you're on a high, you build on it slowly, you don't tear it up. That team last season had something special together and changing too much too soon has has a significantly detrimental effect. The players from last season will have felt that and so have a lot of fans.

Sorry, I did misread the first line and therefore what you were saying.

Fair point re: your personal experience of when Dyche was managing and we were losing/relegated. Although two points I’d make there is that the notion of disconnection was also being discussed on here then, despite the team being familiar. Then we started winning (with a completely new team) and it all went away. Now we’re losing it’s being discussed again. I think it’s very much linked to the results, primarily.

I’m not disputing that mistakes have been made, particularly that I’d have started more of the old team and allowed the newer players to earn their places. Frankly I don’t think it’d have been long before we were calling for changes though.

I’d add that a much overlooked point for me is that 3x of last season were loans and never Burnley players. Then at least two started (Cullen, Roberts) but were dropped due to poor performances, so the minimum changes needed was 5. Then even the most ardent fans of Zaroury must accept Koleosho/Odobert are better… so 6… then obviously no Barnesy (another correct decision, however much I love him) and Foster has been good (so 7 changes vs last year).

Beyer, Brownhill & Charlie play, leaving the keeper (won’t go there). So in all, I’m not quite I’d have managed any of the circumstances Kompany has faced any differently. And I think to say arbitrarily “too many changes” without evaluating the circumstances for each position is wrong.

[agreenwood]

Agreed in parts - I'm not that fussed about VK doing Q&As etc in all honesty - though him referencing last season a lot whilst simultaneously discarding a lot of that team is a bit hypocritical.

My entire point on this and has been throughout the season is that there's just more to building a team and succeeding than plonking good players together and expecting it to work.

Maybe reign in on the objective-data-first-at-all-times approach, and maybe leaning a bit more into the subjective-feeling approach.

There's a reason we have historically punched up well above our weight for large parts of our History - and that's fostering a togetherness and a team that fights for the manager, each other and for the fans.

Don’t disagree and it’s clear we’ve ****** up this season. What we’ll never know is what the atmosphere/feeling would be on here had we been more loyal to last seasons players and still found ourselves so far adrift in early February.

Only time will tell how big a **** up we’ve made. Best case scenario is that this year is a blip on the road to far greater success. Worst case scenario of course is that we’re not even very good in the Championship and we’ve wasted a fortune.