REPORT: Last gasp goal wins unlikely point

[ClaretTony]

Burnley v Fulham report

See link
https://www.uptheclarets.com/last-gasp- ... kely-point

[CleggHall]

A sombre, realistic report - you do well to write them, thanks.

[FCBurnley]

A very accurate if unusually despondent report. You captured my feelings exactly

[bfcjg]

Summed a crap day up, we are like a twitching corpse.

[Nori1958]

A very accurate if unusually despondent report. You captured my feelings exactly

Very accurate in all areas, including to highlight the saves made to keep us in the game, wouldn't you agree?

[bumba]

Very accurate in all areas, including to highlight the saves made to keep us in the game, wouldn't you agree?

Saves any keeper would have made, wouldn't you agree?

[FCBurnley]

Very accurate in all areas, including to highlight the saves made to keep us in the game, wouldn't you agree?

CT marked Trafford a 5

[ClaretTony]

Saves any keeper would have made, wouldn't you agree?

I’d have said so but he made them. They had so many chances it was frightening.

[bfcjg]

Saddest aspect of yesterday for me was one of the grandchildren doesn't want to go on again, bit like grandad after yesterday but I have to cheer lead.

[ClaretTony]

Saddest aspect of yesterday for me was one of the grandchildren doesn't want to go on again, bit like grandad after yesterday but I have to cheer lead.

It’s draining. I never thought it would happen but my love and passion for BFC is nothing like it was.

[RVclaret]

I’d have said so but he made them. They had so many chances it was frightening.

Yet had an xG lower than us. Let’s stop with the dramatisation of everything eh?

[ClaretTony]

Yet had an xG lower than us. Let’s stop with the dramatisation of everything eh?

I’ll stick with using my eyes thanks and I’ve sat through two horrific performances this week.

[Goliath]

We were dreadful yesterday but I think people really should be giving them more credit for the fight back. Not going under there when the fans were getting on their back was a real show of character, im not having this idea that Fulham had loads of good chances, thats nonsense. There was nothing there that seriously challenged Trafford.
Coming back from 2-0 down in a Premier League game is always incredibly difficult with the quality in this league, it was exactly what we have cried out for all season, a show of fight. Lets hope we can see more of it, as long as Kompany doesn't play another absolutely ridiculous starting line up

[bfcjg]

It’s draining. I never thought it would happen but my love and passion for BFC is nothing like it was.

I think part of it is down to the feeling that we are a bit of an irritant for not buying in wholeheartedly to the project of shopping window football to get investors money back with interest, high merchandise and concourse prices and generally grating razzmatazz with sod all interest in our heritage.

[Wokingclaret]

Yet had an xG lower than us. Let’s stop with the dramatisation of everything eh?

But they did have the chances RV, no dramatisation there.

[bfcjg]

I just don't get this xg crap Fulham should have buried us. VK made a massive balls up with his selection and tactics, fortunately we dug our way out of a self inflcted pit.

[FCBurnley]

We were dreadful yesterday but I think people really should be giving them more credit for the fight back. Not going under there when the fans were getting on their back was a real show of character, im not having this idea that Fulham had loads of good chances, thats nonsense. There was nothing there that seriously challenged Trafford.
Coming back from 2-0 down in a Premier League game is always incredibly difficult with the quality in this league, it was exactly what we have cried out for all season, a show of fight. Lets hope we can see more of it, as long as Kompany doesn't play another absolutely ridiculous starting line up

Both our goals were thanks to awful errors from Fulham. Having said that both their goals were preventable

[Goliath]

I just don't get this xg crap Fulham should have buried us. VK made a massive balls up with his selection and tactics, fortunately we dug our way out of a self inflcted pit.

And deserve credit for doing so. These weren't lucky goals, the first took quality from Foster and then real desire and quality from Assignon and Foster. The second again showed quality from JBG and Odobert along with a desire to get in the right area from Fofana.

These things dont happen by luck and I feel like that should be acknowledged along with the poor performance for the first hour or so.

[RVclaret]

I just don't get this xg crap Fulham should have buried us. VK made a massive balls up with his selection and tactics, fortunately we dug our way out of a self inflcted pit.

It’s not really that hard to get. Fulham had 1.51 xG, we had 1.81. They had 15 shots to our 12. Hardly frightening amounts on either count. I watched the game too and despite them being better than us they didn’t create any chances you thought ‘how did he miss that’ or ‘we got away with that’.

[bumba]

I just don't get this xg crap Fulham should have buried us. VK made a massive balls up with his selection and tactics, fortunately we dug our way out of a self inflcted pit.

I get what your saying but I think we got to the top of the pit without getting out, yesterday was a must win. We've now got 15 meaningless games, it's outrageous.

[bumba]

I’d have said so but he made them. They had so many chances it was frightening.

The chances we concede week in week out is scary, Fulham should have buried us 1st half at their place too

[ClaretTony]

The chances we concede week in week out is scary, Fulham should have buried us 1st half at their place too

Very fortunate to come off at 0-0 down there at half time but then came out and scored and dominated the second half, in the end deserving to win.

[Westleigh]

Very accurate in all areas, including to highlight the saves made to keep us in the game, wouldn't you agree?

Saying that reminds me of a game at Sheff Wednesday ,Thomson had a nightmare and let 7 in ,but we mustn’t forget that he saved a penalty ,you can talk all day about his saves in the 2nd half ,but if he didn’t let the goals in in the first half we may have been in front not having to take risks ,so he wouldnt have to make those saves ,and I know that your one of his biggest fans Nori ,but as I said earlier just go back to 3-15 yesterday and look at all the supposedly fair minded fans who are saying it’s time for Trafford to be rested.

[Goliath]

Both our goals were thanks to awful errors from Fulham. Having said that both their goals were preventable

Errors dont just happen, they come from being put under pressure and being made to defend. Dyche's whole style was based on making defenders defend for that exact reason.
The mistakes happen because of desire and quality of cross from Assignon - What happens if Leno stays at home? Fofana still has a clear chance to score with a free header.
The second goal they are forced to defend by JBG putting a ball in behind them with urgency and quality which caught them out. What normally happens there is Brownhill takes a touch and then passes back or sideways, that was the difference. Think of how Dyche had Westwood sticking that blind round the corner pass in behind defences every week, that was the reason.

[Nori1958]

Saying that reminds me of a game at Sheff Wednesday ,Thomson had a nightmare and let 7 in ,but we mustn’t forget that he saved a penalty ,you can talk all day about his saves in the 2nd half ,but if he didn’t let the goals in in the first half we may have been in front not having to take risks ,so he wouldnt have to make those saves ,and I know that your one of his biggest fans Nori ,but as I said earlier just go back to 3-15 yesterday and look at all the supposedly fair minded fans who are saying it’s time for Trafford to be rested.

Not his biggest fan at all, you won't find a post where I have said he's had a good game or bad game.
What I argue against are the ridiculous comments blaming him for everything, the made up stats trying to show how bad he is, the lies and edited posts that posters do to try and prove they are right, the abusive names posters call him, or any poster who appears to back him.
If you're really bothered you'll find posts from last season where I say Muric wouldn't be the answer in the Premier league, but people are saying on here "look at the game at Everton, we played much better with Muric"... Remind me the score.... Or how many shots we had on target.... As said then and previously, the goalkeeper, whoever it may be is not the reason we are where we are.

[Mark the Claret]

It’s not really that hard to get. Fulham had 1.51 xG, we had 1.81. They had 15 shots to our 12. Hardly frightening amounts on either count. I watched the game too and despite them being better than us they didn’t create any chances you thought ‘how did he miss that’ or ‘we got away with that’.

How was our xG (useless stat, just like possession stat when you don't get out of your own half) higher than theirs when Trafford had to make more saves than their keeper?

[Vim Fuego]

A fair and honest report of what was another very poor home performance

[RVclaret]

How was our xG (useless stat, just like possession stat when you don't get out of your own half) higher than theirs when Trafford had to make more saves than their keeper?

He only had 2 more shots to save.

And you can’t really call xG useless if you don’t know how it’s used? It can’t be that useless given all professional football clubs at the highest level use it.

Fwiw xG measures the quality of a chance, not the quantity. Fofana’s two clear chances will give a higher expected goal because the chance was statistically scored far more times throughout history than a long range effort (for example).

[CrosspoolClarets]

Yet had an xG lower than us. Let’s stop with the dramatisation of everything eh?

Not on Understat it doesn’t. Fulham had higher xG in line with how the game went. And xG is distorted by the open goal Fofana had with his header which doesn’t really tell us the game’s flow. I’ve been praising us for much of the time since Everton but the last two home games have been very insipid, and the way the heads dropped yesterday was frightening. Unsurprising the added impetus given by the new guys (who aren’t scarred from the first 21 games) and the old heads (JBG) gave us the comeback. Unless these new guys turn out to be amazing it looks like the lack of experience will prove fatal.

I am sympathetic, both xG and goals across the whole division has risen sharply in the last 2 or 3 years, in short meaning sides have more firepower and it is hard to stop them. We’ve seen that a lot this season with errors punished brutally.

So I see why fans are depressed. I just get concerned nothing can keep us happy nowadays, now it is so hard to compete in this division. I tend to view it the other way, once we plummet down the leagues my many decades of season ticket support, and long drives for matches, will choose to come to an end, apart from sporadically, so I’m still enjoying it while I can.

[RVclaret]

Not on Understat it doesn’t. Fulham had higher xG in line with how the game went. And xG is distorted by the open goal Fofana had with his header which doesn’t really tell us the game’s flow. I’ve been praising us for much of the time since Everton but the last two home games have been very insipid, and the way the heads dropped yesterday was frightening.

Interesting, and one of the limitations / annoyances with xG is the different models. I was looking at Fbref which I believe is powered by Opta? Agree on the other points but that’s kinda the point of xG, to tell us what the quality of the chance(s) were, so if it’s an open goal then great, it was a well created chance!

[Vegas Claret]

Absolutely spot on about yesterday, it was pretty abject to put it nicely. Not sure about the no positives from the Man City game though, scored away at the best team on the planet, drew a half with them, Fofano was excellent, Ali-D got his first goal.

[mikeS]

Thought Trafford kept us in the game. He made some very good stops. This was One game we could have won if we would only stop messing around passing along the back. Both our goals came from fast pacy breaks forward diwn the left flank. We lined up at kick off with six on the centre line with three on the left and started well attacking diwn the left before fading out of the game for well over an hour.
Tactically we were all over the shop until the subs changed the game for us. Flam fans must have wondered how they only got a point.

[Westleigh]

Not his biggest fan at all, you won't find a post where I have said he's had a good game or bad game.
What I argue against are the ridiculous comments blaming him for everything, the made up stats trying to show how bad he is, the lies and edited posts that posters do to try and prove they are right, the abusive names posters call him, or any poster who appears to back him.
If you're really bothered you'll find posts from last season where I say Muric wouldn't be the answer in the Premier league, but people are saying on here "look at the game at Everton, we played much better with Muric"... Remind me the score.... Or how many shots we had on target.... As said then and previously, the goalkeeper, whoever it may be is not the reason we are where we are.

I think the thing that riles most fans is that VK has tried every single player in the squad to come up with a winning combination,every single one of them apart from Trafford has been dropped/rested ,even Sean Dyche had a light bulb moment when finally decided that Joe Hart even though an ex England keeper was costing us points by not commanding his area.

[ClaretTony]

Absolutely spot on about yesterday, it was pretty abject to put it nicely. Not sure about the no positives from the Man City game though, scored away at the best team on the planet, drew a half with them, Fofano was excellent, Ali-D got his first goal.

We didn’t compete at City. It was horrendous.

[Vegas Claret]

We didn’t compete at City. It was horrendous.

we got beat 3-1, we got beat 6-0 there last season. Not sure how anyone can't find a single positive from the game. Each to their own

[Nori1958]

I think the thing that riles most fans is that VK has tried every single player in the squad to come up with a winning combination,every single one of them apart from Trafford has been dropped/rested ,even Sean Dyche had a light bulb moment when finally decided that Joe Hart even though an ex England keeper was costing us points by not commanding his area.

First thing, it's not most fans, it might seem like it on here at times, but it's the same ones.

The difference with Hart being replaced was that there was a proven player at this level ready to come in. That's not the case here, the decision was made in the summer that Muric was not going to be number one, it's just some on here Carnt quite grasp that.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Interesting, and one of the limitations / annoyances with xG is the different models. I was looking at Fbref which I believe is powered by Opta? Agree on the other points but that’s kinda the point of xG, to tell us what the quality of the chance(s) were, so if it’s an open goal then great, it was a well created chance!

I think FbRef is the better regarded one, but I like Understat letting me click on the position on the pitch of each chance. But even on FbRef it lists all the shots and between 47 minutes and the 92nd minute equaliser there were only 2 Burnley shots, Brownhill’s waste well over the bar and that Fofana open goal.

It was that seeming lack of urgency (caused in my view by heads dropping and tempo slowing) that I think is making a lot of us fed up, which I sympathise with. I think he needs to emphasise tempo when behind, teams leading find it easy to sit back on it if we are passing it back to Trafford all the time.

[Foshiznik]

I think the thing that riles most fans is that VK has tried every single player in the squad to come up with a winning combination,every single one of them apart from Trafford has been dropped/rested ,even Sean Dyche had a light bulb moment when finally decided that Joe Hart even though an ex England keeper was costing us points by not commanding his area.

More revisionism… Hart was dropped after Pope came back from injury. It wasn’t as if Hart was number one choice all along then they changed when he wasn’t quite at it.

I really genuinely don’t get how a Burnley fan can hate a Burnley player so much. I get not favouring them, but the amount of over criticism to literally every goal and attaching unfair blame to Trafford for them is weirdly obsessive. Maybe it’s the way of the modern football fan. Just find it bizarre not to want every player who is in a Burnley shirt to do well.

[ClaretTony]

we got beat 3-1, we got beat 6-0 there last season. Not sure how anyone can't find a single positive from the game. Each to their own

I sat through it and I thought we offered much more in the cup tie last season. We didn’t even compete last week and thankfully City declared. It was dire to watch.

[Ampth7]

Personally, upon watching our performances in recent weeks, we look very low on confidence, which is understandable, but it has made us way too passive especially when defending.
Prior to us conceding yesterday’s goals, which were both awful goals to concede, we had very much conceded overall possession and control of the game which isn’t meant to be our DNA way of playing.
For 80 minutes yesterday we looked very much like a side waiting to be put out of its misery, but credit to them for somehow snatching a point. However, we seem to be following the same script every week - start well, concede a s**t goal or three, game over with some intermittent decent play in between. We have simply got to stop conceding crap goals at the first sign of an opposition attack which has killed us all season long, and this is the most frustrating thing for me.

[Westleigh]

First thing, it's not most fans, it might seem like it on here at times, but it's the same ones.

The difference with Hart being replaced was that there was a proven player at this level ready to come in. That's not the case here, the decision was made in the summer that Muric was not going to be number one, it's just some on here Carnt quite grasp that.

Saying it was decided he would be number one is like a player signing if he’s guaranteed a game ,you can’t run a team like that if a guy’s guaranteed to play ,also as a previously said ,read the posts from 3-15 yesterday by fans who probably don’t post as much as us and they’re lots of now saying JT isn’t good enough,& I may be sad but I counted around 40 posts for yesterday’s game player ratings and Trafford averaged 5 points ,your getting like the mum who thinks all the parades marching out off step apart from her son, I love CT to post a survey to see how many fans think JT should be rested but your probably say it was a vendetta and an agenda,unfortunately we’ve been down this road many times and VK is sleepwalking his way back to the Championship.

[Vegas Claret]

I sat through it and I thought we offered much more in the cup tie last season. We didn’t even compete last week and thankfully City declared. It was dire to watch.

yes first 30 mins last season we were very good and probably should have taken the lead (through Tella from memory). I still don't think you can't find a single positive from Weds though

[bumba]

First thing, it's not most fans, it might seem like it on here at times, but it's the same ones.

The difference with Hart being replaced was that there was a proven player at this level ready to come in. That's not the case here, the decision was made in the summer that Muric was not going to be number one, it's just some on here Carnt quite grasp that.

A large chunk of fans singing Muric yesterday at half time, was that just the fans off here?
Listen whilst your at the match I can't remember the last time I spoke to a fan that said Trafford should keep his place even fans I know that stuck by him and said give him a chance are now fed up saying we need a change.
It is now by some distance a minority that defend him and VK for that matter too.

[FCBurnley]

They said Trafford is 6 foot 6 Is that correct ? He doesn’t look that big on tv unless some of the other players are 6-10. If he is 6-6 then he should have no problem commanding his area

[Westleigh]

More revisionism… Hart was dropped after Pope came back from injury. It wasn’t as if Hart was number one choice all along then they changed when he wasn’t quite at it.

I really genuinely don’t get how a Burnley fan can hate a Burnley player so much. I get not favouring them, but the amount of over criticism to literally every goal and attaching unfair blame to Trafford for them is weirdly obsessive. Maybe it’s the way of the modern football fan. Just find it bizarre not to want every player who is in a Burnley shirt to do well.

I refer you to Nori’s post saying it was decided at the beginning of the season that JT would be the no 1 keeper,how can you manage a team when your guaranteeing a guy a game ,as Chris Wood said about being in the comfort zone ,Kompany’s that stubborn he doesn’t want to lose face.

[ksrclaret]

Absolutely spot on with the report. Sad to read really and the apathy around the club at the moment is striking.

The sooner this period of our history comes to an end the better. Draining is absolutely the right word.

Our only identity is passivity.

[FCBurnley]

Trafford is listed as 6-6 (1.97) on Wiki but 6-3 (1-92) on other sites Big difference

[Pearcey]

It’s draining. I never thought it would happen but my love and passion for BFC is nothing like it was.

Me and my Dad are feeling the same way which is a crying shame. Something needs to change because it’s utterly miserable to witness how poor we are.

[Nori1958]

A large chunk of fans singing Muric yesterday at half time, was that just the fans off here?
Listen whilst your at the match I can't remember the last time I spoke to a fan that said Trafford should keep his place even fans I know that stuck by him and said give him a chance are now fed up saying we need a change.
It is now by some distance a minority that defend him and VK for that matter too.

A large chunk? Or the kids near the tunnel? It certainly wasn't heard where I sit, granted it's about as far away from that area as I could possibly get.

Only the minority of fans defend the manager? What a strange world you live in

[ksrclaret]

I think part of it is down to the feeling that we are a bit of an irritant for not buying in wholeheartedly to the project of shopping window football to get investors money back with interest, high merchandise and concourse prices and generally grating razzmatazz with sod all interest in our heritage.

Couldn't agree more.