TRAFFORD (AGAIN)

[CoolClaret]

Only thing I'm justifying is the point you and the like are quick to dish out the vitriol for Trafford, when similar mistakes were made before and didnt result in folk screaming for Muric to 'get out of the club'

Totally different styles of play. One was high risk high reward - this is high risk no reward.

[Darthlaw]

If you believe that justifies your abuse of one of our players then that says more about you, than them

[CoolClaret]

If you believe that justifies your abuse of one of our players then that says more about you, than them

Not abused him - just said he isn't good enough. I hate being like this as well btw

[Westleigh]

Only thing I'm justifying is the point you and the like are quick to dish out the vitriol for Trafford, when similar mistakes were made before and didnt result in folk screaming for Muric to 'get out of the club'.

Thankfully on the games we don't hear such stuff and its restricted to those hiding behind their keyboard on here.

I think you and the like should count up how many mistakes Muric made in a season,and check who was in the team of the season,and count up how many mistakes Trafford makes .Trafford again marching in step and the other 10 marching out of step ,I don’t know why people like you come on this board trying to defend the indefensible week after week.

[Darthlaw]

I think you and the like should count up how many mistakes Muric made in a season,and check who was in the team of the season,and count up how many mistakes Trafford makes .Trafford again marching in step and the other 10 marching out of step ,I don’t know why people like you come on this board trying to defend the indefensible week after week.

I know you struggle with ascertaining the point so I'll make this clear for you.

I'm not defending Trafford, just pointing out how there is a distinct difference in the abuse he receives for similar errors others have made.

Im certainly not going to start totting up the errors Muric made against Blackpool, Watford and Sheffield U and start comparing it with errors made against PL opposition.

[Westleigh]

I know you struggle with ascertaining the point so I'll make this clear for you.

I'm not defending Trafford, just pointing out how there is a distinct difference in the abuse he receives for similar errors others have made.

Im certainly not going to start totting up the errors Muric made against Blackpool, Watford and Sheffield U and start comparing it with errors made against PL opposition.

I think if you look at your last few quotes today your criticising Muric as a way to defend Trafford .

[Pearcey]

I’d put BPF ahead of Trafford at the moment.

[Darthlaw]

I think if you look at your last few quotes today your criticising Muric as a way to defend Trafford .

You'll be able to quote them easily then, wont you?

Only mentions of Muric have been that he made the identical error Trafford did today. You know, the one where you said:

Well done Trafford get out of our club.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

England’s future number one let’s not forget.

[claptrappers_union]

Why would VK do this to a kid?

[ksrclaret]

Why would VK do this to a kid?

He doesn't have the slightest clue what he's doing or the harm he's doing.

[StayingDown4Ever]

Someone check on Nori please.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Someone check on Nori please.

Just on the phone with Jimbo

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

England’s future number one let’s not forget.

That release clause is going to be activated this summer mark my words!

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

That release clause is going to be activated this summer mark my words!

Shame it wasn’t activated 6 months ago.

[123EasyasBFC]

Trafford time wasting after about 17 minutes says it all about his confidence, he needs help from his ‘manager’ get him out the firing line.

Odobert also needs a few games out the side to

[Nori1958]

Someone check on Nori please.

Fine, other than reading your drivel

Please can you find me one post where I've said he's not been at fault for a goal, other than Luton.... Or where I've said he's better than Muric?

[BigJay]

I don't blame Trafford or the players, it's down to the sheer incompetence of VK and his coaching team. Trafford should never have started as no1 choice, Muric deserved the chance and it's been proving right through the season Trafford isn't ready physically and his confidence is shot. But here we are with Muric not having played a single minute, or an alternative GK brought in January. Its baffling and very concerning

[Venkys4eva]

We have been spoilt with some great keepers over the years but Trafford isn't one of them.

[Rileybobs]

Trafford clearly isn’t up to the Premier League yet. I think it is very likely that Muric also isn’t. That said, following a few fairly big mistakes in recent weeks he should be benched for our next game and maybe taken out of the firing line for the remainder of the season.

[StayingDown4Ever]

Fine, other than reading your drivel

Please can you find me one post where I've said he's not been at fault for a goal, other than Luton.... Or where I've said he's better than Muric?

Can you please admit Trafford is not up to it at this level?

[Pearcey]

Trafford clearly isn’t up to the Premier League yet. I think it is very likely that Muric also isn’t. That said, following a few fairly big mistakes in recent weeks he should be benched for our next game and maybe taken out of the firing line for the remainder of the season.

Agreed but that should’ve happened weeks ago. Kompany needs to drop him for Trafford’s and his own good now.

[CoolClaret]

Agreed but that should’ve happened weeks ago. Kompany needs to drop him for Trafford’s and his own good now.

Should never have started the season.

[StayingDown4Ever]

Should never have started the season.

Agreed. And should not start again.

[Rileybobs]

Should never have started the season.

I thought it seemed pretty obvious that we needed a new number one for this level, so I would say the mistake was signing Trafford as our number one rather than someone with more experience and ability, over potential.

[helmclaret]

Why was it obvious? Muric did absolutely nothing wrong to be dropped and deserved a chance.

[123EasyasBFC]

Trafford clearly isn’t up to the Premier League yet. I think it is very likely that Muric also isn’t. That said, following a few fairly big mistakes in recent weeks he should be benched for our next game and maybe taken out of the firing line for the remainder of the season.

Muric might well not be premier league level but he hasn’t been given the chance to show if he is or isn’t despite coming off being championship keeper of the season. Instead the club decided a keeper from league one was the one to take the club forward

[CoolClaret]

I thought it seemed pretty obvious that we needed a new number one for this level, so I would say the mistake was signing Trafford as our number one rather than someone with more experience and ability, over potential.

Massively disagree.

An instrumental part to our wonderful, line breaking passing football that has been abandoned. Supremely talented footballer.

[spt_claret]

As I said in the match thread I keep going through different emotions with Trafford. Critical, to critical but vaguely hopeful, to disappointed, to pitying. It's verging on anger now, it's not his fault and I keep telling myself that but this is not good enough.

He was a highly rated youngster who was an entirely unnecessary signing who cost more of our budget than we ought to spend on an unnecessary signing. But if we'd loaned him out to the championship with a view to the long term and integrating next year you could understand it at least even if you didn't think it was a priority.

As it is we've binned off our season, devalued Muric, and devalued Trafford too as well as possibly damaged his development. For what? The hope of an instant adaptation and presumably short term player flip at profit. Spits in the face of all the talk of The Model and a long term plan, this level of fast tracking isn't long term at all it's short term chancing and gambling.

I can't understand 90% of what's gone on since the summer. I have never seen any club or manager or team do such a 180 in momentum. 101 points to this, whiplash doesn't begin to describe it.

[Rileybobs]

Why was it obvious? Muric did absolutely nothing wrong to be dropped and deserved a chance.

It was obvious to me that Muric wasn’t good enough for the Premier League. But I don’t really want to turn this into a never ending back and forth so appreciate many people disagree, it’s just my opinion.

So for me the mistake wasn’t to sign a new goalkeeper, it was to make Trafford that signing.

[Rileybobs]

Massively disagree.

An instrumental part to our wonderful, line breaking passing football that has been abandoned. Supremely talented footballer.

Yes, absolutely no doubt he was instrumental in last season’s success, but that doesn’t really alter my point. Appreciate we don’t agree on this though which is fine.

[Im_not_Robbie_Blake]

Should we try to persuade Joe Hart to return?

[CoolClaret]

It was obvious to me that Muric wasn’t good enough for the Premier League. But I don’t really want to turn this into a never ending back and forth so appreciate many people disagree, it’s just my opinion.

So for me the mistake wasn’t to sign a new goalkeeper, it was to make Trafford that signing.

Can you at least appreciate that the work of a defensive sweeper keeper is very different to what we were accustomed to under Dyche and previous managers?

He was literally taking up positions 30-40 yard from goal regularly to recycle possession. Heck look at some of the mishaps that Manuel Neuer has had in a similar role in the Bundesliga.

Muric got way better at cutting that out and towards the end of the season was easily one of our top 3 best players, instrumental.

[Rileybobs]

Can you at least appreciate that the work of a defensive sweeper keeper is very different to what we were accustomed to under Dyche and previous managers?

He was literally taking up positions 30-40 yard from goal regularly to recycle possession. Heck look at some of the mishaps that Manuel Neuer has had in a similar role in the Bundesliga.

Muric got way better at cutting that out and towards the end of the season was easily one of our top 3 best players, instrumental.

Yes of course I can. My concern with Muric is I’ve seen him concede quite a number of goals that I would expect a goalkeeper to do better with - and that was in the Championship. So I was not surprised that we signed a keeper with better shot-stopping abilities. Obviously Trafford’s lack of experience and weaknesses in other areas somewhat mitigate that strength.

[CoolClaret]

Yes of course I can. My concern with Muric is I’ve seen him concede quite a number of goals that I would expect a goalkeeper to do better with - and that was in the Championship. So I was not surprised that we signed a keeper with better shot-stopping abilities. Obviously Trafford’s lack of experience and weaknesses in other areas somewhat mitigate that strength.

Yeah we'll always disagree then. Put two banks of four in front of him and a slightly lower block and you'd see more of them - made some clutch saves last season in key moments.

[bumba]

I'm still to see this amazing shot stopping ability of Traffords that so many Burnley fans have seen in action

[123EasyasBFC]

Yeah we'll always disagree then. Put two banks of four in front of him and a slightly lower block and you'd see more of them - made some clutch saves last season in key moments.

The save against pukki and the pen against akpom 2 that come to mind straight away

[CoolClaret]

The save against pukki and the pen against akpom 2 that come to mind straight away

There's loads. Think people just look at the negatives because he was so very different in what we had been used to.

[StayingDown4Ever]

I'm still to see this amazing shot stopping ability of Traffords that so many Burnley fans have seen in action

Agreed. I can’t ever recall thinking “how’s he saved that!?” like you sometimes do.

Some people in the match thread were putting things like “great save” on shots that were straight at him. Desperation from them in my opinion.

[steve1264b]

The guy is 20 in no other position would you flog a young lad.

Time to take him out.

[jlup1980]

I know you struggle with ascertaining the point so I'll make this clear for you.

I'm not defending Trafford, just pointing out how there is a distinct difference in the abuse he receives for similar errors others have made.

Im certainly not going to start totting up the errors Muric made against Blackpool, Watford and Sheffield U and start comparing it with errors made against PL opposition.

I think you're looking through slightly tinted specs Darthlaw.

We had fans wanting Muric gone after 10 games last season. The groans and moans could be heard from the stands every single time he took more than one touch of the ball. This was Burnley after all. We were used to Dyche-ball, not Total Football... just hoof the damn thing!! In particular, he was absolutely slated after the Blackpool and Sheff Utd games. He was not given an easy start by any means, but he improved, and by the end of the season he was a key part of the team and rightly the Championship keeper of the season. It should have been his shirt to lose but VK tossed him aside like a broken toy.

By comparison Trafford had an easy start from the fans. We knew the style was possession based, and knew that the goalkeeper was likely to be needed to help move the ball, so I don't think the fans were on his back early in the season at all. This was a learning curve after all, and we had a tough run of fixtures, so I think we all thought he'd improve. Unfortunately, with the exception of Brighton away, he's been abysmal all season and has looked every part a 21 year old goalkeeper. His confidence is gone and he looks like a rabbit in the headlights. Where was Nick Pope when he was 21? Tom Heaton? It's very rare for a goalkeeper of his age to be playing top flight football. He's just not ready.

Once mistakes start happening regularly, which they have, fans will show their frustrations. I'm not going to boo the lad, he's being let down badly by his Manager, but others will start to abuse him now. It's football, it happens. Kompany should be protecting him but he's throwing him in every week and waiting for the inevitable error. Look at how Brighton have managed Verbruggen this season. In for a few games, then out again. He's a highly rated goalkeeper playing in a far better side than ours, but they're managing him with caution. We've knocked Trafford back hugely this season and I really feel for him. Kompany is ruining the kid and ironically I suspect most of the vitriol is actually aimed at VK, not Trafford. It's just Trafford is the one on the pitch making the mistakes.

[Ric_C]

Saw a bit of Trafford last season and thought he looked "ok"

Was baffled when we were linked with him

Spat my brew out when I heard we'd signed him for 19 million. Thought it was a joke at the time and couldn't get my head round it

After about 5 appearances (maybe less) it was clear he wasn't up to this level and the whole defence and team was losing confidence as a result.

Quite why Muric hasn't been given a chance is anyone's guess. I actually enjoyed watching us for a change when muric played in the cup against spurs.

VK has totally lost the plot with this one I'm afraid

[spt_claret]

I think you're looking through slightly tinted specs Darthlaw.

We had fans wanting Muric gone after 10 games last season. The groans and moans could be heard from the stands every single time he took more than one touch of the ball. This was Burnley after all. We were used to Dyche-ball, not Total Football... just hoof the damn thing!! In particular, he was absolutely slated after the Blackpool and Sheff Utd games. He was not given an easy start by any means, but he improved, and by the end of the season he was a key part of the team and rightly the Championship keeper of the season. It should have been his shirt to lose but VK tossed him aside like a broken toy.

By comparison Trafford had an easy start from the fans. We knew the style was possession based, and knew that the goalkeeper was likely to be needed to help move the ball, so I don't think the fans were on his back early in the season at all. This was a learning curve after all, and we had a tough run of fixtures, so I think we all thought he'd improve. Unfortunately, with the exception of Brighton away, he's been abysmal all season and has looked every part a 21 year old goalkeeper. His confidence is gone and he looks like a rabbit in the headlights. Where was Nick Pope when he was 21? Tom Heaton? It's very rare for a goalkeeper of his age to be playing top flight football. He's just not ready.

Once mistakes start happening regularly, which they have, fans will show their frustrations. I'm not going to boo the lad, he's being let down badly by his Manager, but others will start to abuse him now. It's football, it happens. Kompany should be protecting him but he's throwing him in every week and waiting for the inevitable error. Look at how Brighton have managed Verbruggen this season. In for a few games, then out again. He's a highly rated goalkeeper playing in a far better side than ours, but they're managing him with caution. We've knocked Trafford back hugely this season and I really feel for him. Kompany is ruining the kid and ironically I suspect most of the vitriol is actually aimed at VK, not Trafford. It's just Trafford is the one on the pitch making the mistakes.

Absolutely spot on. First quarter of the season Muric scared me, heart in mouth liability stuff. Next quarter, he started to improve, hit miss but clear progression. Second half of the season, delightful maverick, I began to love the sheer audacity of some stuff he'd pull off.
Trafford...not really had that. People didn't get his signing or selection but cut him a lot of breaks even as he was very, very poor, costing more goals than Muric. Game week 16 (1/3 of the season) before he had that 2nd half against Brighton where he won us a point, was okay against Everton, solid against Fulham. Thought he'd began to hit that '2nd quarter progression' stride, but since then it's been a rapid backwards lurch. I've got mates or coworkers who support Palace, Arsenal, Liverpool and Wolves. They can't believe our keeper.
We're devaluing him as a saleable asset (ie screwing up 'the model') and probably damaging his growth as a player. It's criminal player mismanagement to keep doing this when the Championship Goalkeeper of the Year can't get a game.

[CoolClaret]

Saw a bit of Trafford last season and thought he looked "ok"

Was baffled when we were linked with him

Spat my brew out when I heard we'd signed him for 19 million. Thought it was a joke at the time and couldn't get my head round it

After about 5 appearances (maybe less) it was clear he wasn't up to this level and the whole defence and team was losing confidence as a result.

Quite why Muric hasn't been given a chance is anyone's guess. I actually enjoyed watching us for a change when muric played in the cup against spurs.

VK has totally lost the plot with this one I'm afraid

Exactly what my Bolton supporting mates said to me, utterly perplexing.

[Darthlaw]

I think you're looking through slightly tinted specs Darthlaw.

Just quoted this of what is an excellent post.

I still maintain Muric never received the vitriol Muric did (which is my only point here), particularly because the results in the Championship turned appropriately.

At the risk of the violin coming out, the issue of raise that JT needs the abuse (as I’ve quoted today) whilst sat at a higher tier of football, with a regularly changeable defence and attempting an almost impossible step up (before the previous points are taken into account).

In essence, the GK position is a headache but it’s BFC’s headache and, by association, the supporters headache. Just ask whether slating your GK is going to achieve anything positive, before you post.

If, after he is selected, folks think genuinely that asking JT to ‘get out of our club’ is going to achieve positive results then fair enough.

[clansman]

No one that saw him today could possibly justify his inclusion next week.

[Jamesy]

No one that saw him today could possibly justify his inclusion next week.

Apart from Vincent Kompany that is.

[123EasyasBFC]

Based on Trafford this season, he would struggle even more with the physicality of the championship next season

[spt_claret]

Just quoted this of what is an excellent post.

I still maintain Muric never received the vitriol Muric did (which is my only point here), particularly because the results in the Championship turned appropriately.

So did Muric's performances though. And the two are linked when we play so much through the keeper and try to build from the back with possession. Results picked up alongside Muric's performances, chicken & egg as to which drove which but it's undeniable that Muric by February was worlds apart from Muric in August. That's not happened here - and I really hate to get on Trafford's back so much, but it's just not changing.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Based on Trafford this season, he would struggle even more with the physicality of the championship next season

He’d struggle in any level of football from what I’ve seen so far. A calamity of a signing.