Heaton replacing Hart moment again?

[South West Claret.]

good point fidel.
our outfield players missing sitters, passing the ball directly to Liverpool players, overhitting crosses, wasting throw in's. Defenders half asleep when we are under pressure in our own area, but just lay it all at the feet of a young keeper !
He has inept players around him week after week, Very unfair to single him out in my humble opinion.

A/Resound .

[gtclaret]

It's not only Trafford costing us points although IMO Music is better.I think the inclusion of the three new players,plus Bayern, Taylor and Foster with Benson on the right will make us a better team,but nowhere near good enough for us to escape the drop now,only a top four team could manage that now

[what_no_pies]

Lots to like about Trafford but I don't think we'd have been as successful with him last season. We lose so much for not having Muric's excellence passing out from the back

[elwaclaret]

No idea, but even if he was, that is a signal for the players to get out of the way of Trafford, not a signal to stop marking the forwards. Not that anyone was marking Jota.

Obviously Trafford made the wrong choice, and his better choice would have been to stay on his line and hope to save the free header. But it's still not a great option.

If there is one thing that has exposed Trafford cruelly it is the zonal marking system. I’d have got rid of the zonal to give Trafford a sporting chance… or not play Trafford until he could stand up to a decent centre half running at him full pelt and stand his ground… catching not flapping at the ball.

[Foshiznik]

Lack of left back cover, Ekdal having the turning circle of a container ship, O'Shea's lack of awareness, Vitinho being skinned by opposing wingers most games, the manager's stubbornness not to try something/someone different, lack of marking at set pieces/corners, lack of a midfielder to take the game by the scruff of the neck or at least have the skill to take the ball under pressure whilst facing their own goal, Ramsay and Brownhill having the no first touch, the majority of outfield players having the unusual ability to find an opposition player more often than a team mate and set pieces continually being taken by a player who can't beat the first man, but we are definitely going down just because of our goalkeeper not being very good at catching high balls...

If only posters on here could look past their hatred for one player to see all of the flaws in our squad and be consistent eh?

[CoolClaret]

Lack of left back cover, Ekdal having the turning circle of a container ship, O'Shea's lack of awareness, Vitinho being skinned by opposing wingers most games, the manager's stubbornness not to try something/someone different, lack of marking at set pieces/corners, lack of a midfielder to take the game by the scruff of the neck or at least have the skill to take the ball under pressure whilst facing their own goal, Ramsay and Brownhill having the no first touch, the majority of outfield players having the unusual ability to find an opposition player more often than a team mate and set pieces continually being taken by a player who can't beat the first man, but we are definitely going down just because of our goalkeeper not being very good at catching high balls...

If only posters on here could look past their hatred for one player to see all of the flaws in our squad and be consistent eh?

Exactly - all of which, bar O'Shea (shown his worth) and Ramsey(not shown his worth, another point of contention) have had a period out of the side.

Now if only VK could show that same consistency, eh?

[Foshiznik]

Exactly - all of which, bar O'Shea (shown his worth) and Ramsey(not shown his worth, another point of contention) have had a period out of the side.

Now if only VK could show that same consistency, eh?

When did Brownhill, Amdouni, Gudmundsson, Ekdal, etc. get dropped solely due to their performance? The only person who has from memory was Roberts and even then Vitinho kept his place despite clearly being a worse option.

I think we can all agree that it would be nice to see Muric get his chance. I'd be surprised if anyone didn't think the same tbh, but i don't see how digging out the current keeper and ignoring all the other many flaws in the side makes that opinion stronger.

[CoolClaret]

When did Brownhill, Amdouni, Gudmundsson, Ekdal, etc. get dropped solely due to their performance? The only person who has from memory was Roberts and even then Vitinho kept his place despite clearly being a worse option.

I think we can all agree that it would be nice to see Muric get his chance. I'd be surprised if anyone didn't think the same tbh, but i don't see how digging out the current keeper and ignoring all the other many flaws in the side makes that opinion stronger.

All the players have had time out of the side, seemingly for minute things - not going to go through all of them but there has barely been a consistent XI which would suggest that's true and it's something many on here has alluded to.

So what do you want fans to do, just pretend it's all rosy? For a team on three wins I think it's been pretty tame in all honesty though - I think it could turn if there's a few more hairy moments at the Turf though this season, it was getting that way against Fulham and there's definitely been a shift in the mood of the fanbase as a whole.

[Foshiznik]

All the players have had time out of the side, seemingly for minute things - not going to go through all of them but there has barely been a consistent XI which would suggest that's true and it's something many on here has alluded to.

So what do you want fans to do, just pretend it's all rosy? For a team on three wins I think it's been pretty tame in all honesty though - I think it could turn if there's a few more hairy moments at the Turf though this season, it was getting that way against Fulham and there's definitely been a shift in the mood of the fanbase as a whole.

Feel like a broken record at this point. No one has said everything is rosy and no one should be criticising our players performances. Just try being consistent and not abusive. It really shouldn't be hard given that most posters on here are middle aged men.

[CoolClaret]

Feel like a broken record at this point. No one has said everything is rosy and no one should be criticising our players performances. Just try being consistent and not abusive. It really shouldn't be hard given that most posters on here are middle aged men.

I don't condone abusing players, though I think that word is being used very liberally - certainly not seen much abuse.

Fans are going to get agitated though if results don't improve and certain players keep getting selected no matter what, surely you can see that?

[Foshiznik]

I don't condone abusing players, though I think that word is being used very liberally - certainly not seen much abuse.

Fans are going to get agitated though if results don't improve and certain players keep getting selected no matter what, surely you can see that?

Clearly we won't agree, if you haven't seen the abuse or at least the lack of consistent criticism on here so we might as well end the conversation here.

We all (should) want the club to win and emotions can cause us all to get carried away but if people want to get abusive towards one player and/or any poster who doesn't hold the same opinion they be dealt with. Maybe i am in the minority on that view, but i would hope not.

[Sleeping Cat]

Trafford in / Trafford out has become our very own culture war. Any opinion you disagree with isn't dealt with logically but based on the the side you sit on, irrelevant of the evidence there.

Trafford currently has 9% (24 votes) for MOM on the UTC home page, which is ridiculous in the context of that performance, but entirely believable based on the way some defend his selection.

Bringing outfield players & blaming them for dropping points is an interesting comparison. No one staunchly defends Amdouni like Trafford when people suggest dropping him, or criticise Ramsey and saying he should not start (he a young lad too), or maybe even when recently criticising the performances of Brownhill who finally got an assist from a corner this weekend and still has fewer votes than Trafford for MOM.

The whole conversation is skewed by a few on both sides who aren't interested in discussion.

[CoolClaret]

Trafford in / Trafford out has become our very own culture war. Any opinion you disagree with isn't dealt with logically but based on the the side you sit on, irrelevant of the evidence there.

Trafford currently has 9% (24 votes) for MOM on the UTC home page, which is ridiculous in the context of that performance, but entirely believable based on the way some defend his selection.

Bringing outfield players & blaming them for dropping points is an interesting comparison. No one staunchly defends Amdouni like Trafford when people suggest dropping him, or criticise Ramsey and saying he should not start (he a young lad too), or maybe even when recently criticising the performances of Brownhill who finally got an assist from a corner this weekend and still has fewer votes than Trafford for MOM.

The whole conversation is skewed by a few on both sides who aren't interested in discussion.

I think this is spot on and I thought the same after voting for Dara for MOTM.

[Big Vinny K]

Trafford in / Trafford out has become our very own culture war. Any opinion you disagree with isn't dealt with logically but based on the the side you sit on, irrelevant of the evidence there.

Trafford currently has 9% (24 votes) for MOM on the UTC home page, which is ridiculous in the context of that performance, but entirely believable based on the way some defend his selection.

Bringing outfield players & blaming them for dropping points is an interesting comparison. No one staunchly defends Amdouni like Trafford when people suggest dropping him, or criticise Ramsey and saying he should not start (he a young lad too), or maybe even when recently criticising the performances of Brownhill who finally got an assist from a corner this weekend and still has fewer votes than Trafford for MOM.

The whole conversation is skewed by a few on both sides who aren't interested in discussion.

That’s one way of looking at it.
Another way is that nobody tears into Amdouni, Ramsay or others like they tear into Trafford.

Just look at the number of different threads and posts there is on Trafford - more than any other player put together.

As for people defending Trafford I don’t see that many posters who are saying he has not made mistakes. I don’t see many posters who say that he should be in the team before Muric.

Most posters seem to be pretty balanced in their view. But what they do have an issue with is the the vitriol posted by some posters against one of our own players and the sheer amount of repetition of the same points over and over again.

Does anybody on this board seriously have any doubts over certain posters views on Trafford ? So why do they feel the need to continuously post criticism about him and apportion so much of the blame for our results this season on one individual ? It’s clear to most of us that the vast majority of the team, the manager, the coaches and the board are having an extremely poor season - not just our goalkeeper.

[Sleeping Cat]

As for people defending Trafford I don’t see that many posters who are saying he has not made mistakes. I don’t see many posters who say that he should be in the team before Muric.

24 people have voted for him in the MOM vote against Liverpool. They might not be saying he has not made a mistake, but they are ignoring them for whatever reason.

[Swizzlestick]

Trafford is going to get more attention than, say, Amdouni because he occupies a critical position on the pitch, arguably the most critical, and it’s coming across to some, certainly myself anyway, that it’s weakened us as a team, both in terms of the tactical style Kompany was developingand as a general physical presence from crosses and set pieces.

Some of the contributions do stray into jibes against Trafford himself, which aren’t helpful, but neither are policing or attempting to silence any fair criticism. It’s not the lad’s fault, I think most realise that, but it’s surely clear he isn’t ready. It’s another expensive foray into the transfer market that hasn’t worked.

[Big Vinny K]

24 people have voted for him in the MOM vote against Liverpool. They might not be saying he has not made a mistake, but they are ignoring them for whatever reason.

As you say they are not saying he has not made mistakes. Neither are they necessarily ignoring them either.

It’s a ratings thread - if people think he was Burnley’s best player on Saturday then that’s their opinion.

Does not mean they believe he’s had a good season or that they think he should be in the team before Muric.

As said if you read the many many Trafford threads not many posters are blindly defending him.
And even the few who do defend him are not opening new topics every day or week or posting several hundred posts on Trafford like the ones who are tearing into him.

[Big Vinny K]

Trafford is going to get more attention than, say, Amdouni because he occupies a critical position on the pitch, arguably the most critical, and it’s coming across to some, certainly myself anyway, that it’s weakened us as a team, both in terms of the tactical style Kompany was developingand as a general physical presence from crosses and set pieces.

Some of the contributions do stray into jibes against Trafford himself, which aren’t helpful, but neither are policing or attempting to silence any fair criticism. It’s not the lad’s fault, I think most realise that, but it’s surely clear he isn’t ready. It’s another expensive foray into the transfer market that hasn’t worked.

I agree he’s weakened us as a team. And like you say it’s in a critical position.
But the team in general is weaker and the defence and midfield who are supposed to help a keeper definitely are.

And of course when players like Amdouni frivolously give the ball away in dangerous positions every week in this league that will often lead to a goal or a chance which creates a set piece - which Trafford will probably get the blame for because we can see that is a weak point for him and the rest of our team (as I am sure it would be for Muric too)

[ksrclaret]

I think it's too late for a Heaton/ Hart moment, unfortunately. The time for that was October or November, but that's not to say that Muric shouldn't come in on a point of principle, although I think just about Burnley fan has given up on sensible team selections being made this season.

On Trafford, he's a 21 year old kid who's been asked to sink or swim this season by his manager in the choppiest of waters. He's probably just about kept his above water up until now but there is a real risk that this begins to unravel in quite an unpleasant fashion I think. Some fans clearly have it in for him and the slightest hint of a mistake will only add to the hatred he receives.

I can well understand the criticism of his mistakes and it's as clear as day that's he's not ready for PL football, but I think some fans take their frustrations with the manager out on Trafford because he's seen as the symbol of his egotism and inability to see the obvious.

[Sleeping Cat]

I think it's less Hart/Heaton & more Grant/Beast.

[equinox]

Heaton was better than Hart.

If we're going to get any positives from this miserable season then let's at least look after the future.

Good lad is Trafford, you wouldn't catch this kid running up £18k bar bills.

[Swizzlestick]

Heaton was better than Hart.

If we're going to get any positives from this miserable season then let's at least look after the future.

Good lad is Trafford, you wouldn't catch this kid running up £18k bar bills.

You carry on throwing a young lad in at the deep end to see if he can sink or swim, that promising future can be derailed a little if he starts to struggle and you do nothing about that.

As long as the player does the business on the pitch and stays out of trouble, I couldn't care less if they run up £50k bar bills.