Shearer ...

[ElectroClaret]

...on MOTD
"From a defensive point of view, Burnley are miles off."

Can't really disagree.

[123EasyasBFC]

But the fail to mention that Ramsey was fouled but tried to be honest and stay on his feet, there’s no wonder players dive

[beddie]

Yes he was spot in with all his analysis of us. That’s been the story of our season so far.

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Shearer is spot on
Ramsey was not fouled
All 3 Liverpool goals were legitimate

[Goliath]

That was crap analysis though. Pundits fail to acknowledge that we've completely changed our style of play since last season.
And they hardly even touched on the obvious foul for the second goal.

[Belial]

He's said it several time this season as well (about us playing ourselves into trouble). Its just so obvious. Along with how awful we are at defending set pieces, which goes back to last season too

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Was not an obvious foul

[Goliath]

Was not an obvious foul

He's volleyed his shin and not got the ball. If he goes down its a foul which is a complete nonsense.
Var should have eradicated the need to go down for fouls but of course it hasn't

[Mark the Claret]

No foul.

[ElectroClaret]

Christ, Sheffield U like Real Madrid.

Nearly.

[123EasyasBFC]

Shearer is spot on
Ramsey was not fouled
All 3 Liverpool goals were legitimate

So booting your opponents shin after they intercept the ball from you isn’t a foul? The only reason it’s not a foul is because Ramsey tries to continue for the one two from Amdouni.

The Liverpool player dives to the floor trying to win a foul after he kicks ramseys shin, should be a foul and booking for simulation to

[BurnleyFC]

Was not an obvious foul

You’re right. It was blindingly obvious.

[Kilson810]

We can say it's a foul all we want, Ramsey was too honest, stayed on his feet and barely flinched.

No point being the only honest team in a league of 19 other clubs who aren't honest. There's no moral victory award.

[Goliath]

He didnt flinch because hes volleyed his shin pad. Maybe they should stop wearing them so they can be sure it hurts when they are fouled in future. Should help them go down quicker and get the free kicks.

[Kilson810]

Well I'd rather see a player go down and win a totally legitimate free kick than concede a goal.

[Goliath]

Well I'd rather see a player go down and win a totally legitimate free kick than concede a goal.

Tbf he probably would have done if he'd known what Amdouni was about to do. But thats another discussion entirely.

[Kilson810]

Tbf he probably would have done if he'd known what Amdouni was about to do. But thats another discussion entirely.

Very true but who can predict what goes on inside Amdouni's head at the minute!

[RammyClaret61]

Shearer is spot on
Ramsey was not fouled
All 3 Liverpool goals were legitimate

I’m beginning to think you have shares in VAR.

[Percy]

You know your doing bad if Shearer calls you out, must be like a black spot on the moon!

[South West Claret.]

...on MOTD
"From a defensive point of view, Burnley are miles off."

Can't really disagree.

50/50 I would say.

[oswyclaret]

Definite foul on Ramsey,but only if he went to ground holding his leg!

Var would have been used, but it would have gone Liverpools way anyway.

Wasn't that Ramey's only contribution yesterday?

[dougcollins]

Tbf he probably would have done if he'd known what Amdouni was about to do. But thats another discussion entirely.

Amdouni has probably contributed to as many conceded goals as Trafford.

[JohnMac]

Playing out from the back especially from teams with lesser talented players has increased the number of goals scored in the Premier League. Unfortunately these goals are mainly scored by the opposing side but the TV mob love it!

[Ilkley claret]

Liverpool are a footballing team, so to lose against them with 3 headed goals speaks volumes about our inability to defend our six yard box

[Culmclaret]

Let’s face it. We re total bobbins. Teams don’t have to play well or try particularly hard to beat us. Against teams other than the two who came up with us plus Fulham we’ve managed a princely two points. Just think about that. Awful recruitment and clueless management. We will be the first 100 points plus Championship winning team to be relegated. To fail to build on such a strong platform was an act of staggering ineptitude…and then to pretend we are ahead of schedule and there is some cunning project plan is just insulting.

[warksclaret]

Good pundits with lots of proper experience of playing and critiquing are like top consultants who companies bring in to tell them where they are going wrong. I personally include Shearer as one of the better ones, and what he said last night he has been saying since about the fifth game this season. Some of us need to smell the coffeee

[MrTopTier]

First goal weak by Trafford all on him nobody else.

The second goal was a real team effort, started near the halfway line. Berge actually puts his hands down to Indicate to Assignon to slow things down. The throw is taken quickly Berge goes back to O’Shea under pressure, who puts pressure Trafford under pressure, poor choice from Trafford, could have cleared his lines.
Instead plays a ball to Delcroix that puts him under pressure, another poor decision by Delcroix who chooses to play up the line instead of playing the ball out and getting back into shape. They get the ball back poor touch by Ramsey and the a poor ball to Amdouni who in turn loses the ball which leads to the cross and goal.

Third goal comes from a second phase of a set piece.

Only Forest conceded more from corners.

It is evident throughout the season that it is a weakness and yet here we are 2/3 of the way into the season, still not addressing it.

[warksclaret]

Amdouni has probably contributed to as many conceded goals as Trafford.

Probably the most talented insight right, No 10, or whatever you like to call him, since Robbie Blake. He consistently produces 10-15 minutes of brilliance then fades. For me he is an impact sub at best right now, particularly with Fofana joining us. Sadly he has scored 4 in 23 games, but as you say, has led to conceding more than this through poor control

[ClaretLoup]

Amdouni has probably contributed to as many conceded goals as Trafford.

Amdouni flinches for the cross in for number three and turns his body away from the ball. The idea when you are defending is to get in the way of the ball not avoid it. At corners they might as well put him on the half way line as he has no interest in heading a ball.

However he is not the only one, O'Shea for City's third was criminal, stand up and he blocks it.

Add in Ekdal and Al Dakhil cowering as Morris rises above them to head Luton's goal, Berge flinching for Fulham's first, turns his head away and the ball hits him, face the ball and he has the opportunity to nut it out.

Another reason this team are going down, too soft and not enough guts.

[claretspice]

I thought it was a bit OT from Shearer. He nails the first goal - straightforward Trafford error- and is mostly right about the second except he ignored the arguable goul on Ramsey and to my mind unfairly singled out Amdouni. Having watched a replay of the game last night, however, the implication of the analysis that those incidents were representative of the game seems to me wrong. I've seen Dyche teams go to Anfield and cough up far more clear chances than we did yesterday.

[Neil]

Definite foul on Ramsey,but only if he went to ground holding his leg!

Var would have been used, but it would have gone Liverpools way anyway.

Wasn't that Ramey's only contribution yesterday?

No, he also miscontrolled the ball when in on goal right before half time.
Most annoying thing about yesterday was Liverpool weren't at the races. The place was flat, they were missing players through injury and illness and were there for the taking.
Unfortunately we have this habit of conceding incredibly soft goals. All the opposition have to do is stay in the game and they will inevitably score out of nothing.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Let’s face it. We re total bobbins. Teams don’t have to play well or try particularly hard to beat us. Against teams other than the two who came up with us plus Fulham we’ve managed a princely two points. Just think about that. Awful recruitment and clueless management. We will be the first 100 points plus Championship winning team to be relegated. To fail to build on such a strong platform was an act of staggering ineptitude…and then to pretend we are ahead of schedule and there is some cunning project plan is just insulting.

Agree 100 per cent…The Emperor’s New Clothes springs to mind !

[ClaretLoup]

I thought it was a bit OT from Shearer. He nails the first goal - straightforward Trafford error-

OK maybe, but what about the queue of three unmarked players on the back post waiting to head it in, who is marking them? Answer = Nobody. Assignon, Brownhill and Amdouni all marking space. Shearer is right, absolute bobbins defending and a complete shambles all over the box. Doesn't matter if you play really well except for when the three goals go in, the fact is three goals went in due to poor marking, decision making, & loose control etc at the key moments. It doesn't help if you have Brian Jensen Mark 2 in the nets.

[Quickenthetempo]

I've seen Dyche teams go to Anfield and cough up far more clear chances than we did yesterday.

Yesterday's Liverpool side aren't anywhere near the level of when Mane and Salah were ripping us apart.

[Tricky Trevor]

The initial foul by Nunez on Trafford has hardly been mentioned. The shove in the back totally interfered with his clearance and we never got it away after that.
They were both fouls for me.

[claretspice]

Yesterday's Liverpool side aren't anywhere near the level of when Mane and Salah were ripping us apart.

They're not far behind though.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The person culpable is the set piece coach. They often spend so long on this the managers don’t hang around to watch it (not sure VK’s approach). How easy to say before the game “look James, TAA is world class on his delivery, they are so hard to read, if he floats in a back post corner, stay on your line”. Obvious no such conversation took place. I have similar concerns about the zonal marking and all our tall players getting caught near post.

But in open play our defending was outstanding and so was the goalkeeping.

[Fretters]

Shearer's spot on. It's a shame we're no longer managed by a centre half.

Oh, wait...

[CoolClaret]

Let’s face it. We re total bobbins. Teams don’t have to play well or try particularly hard to beat us. Against teams other than the two who came up with us plus Fulham we’ve managed a princely two points. Just think about that. Awful recruitment and clueless management. We will be the first 100 points plus Championship winning team to be relegated. To fail to build on such a strong platform was an act of staggering ineptitude…and then to pretend we are ahead of schedule and there is some cunning project plan is just insulting.

This.

All I want is some realism and something that isn't platitudes and ******** from the manager/club.

[claretspice]

OK maybe, but what about the queue of three unmarked players on the back post waiting to head it in, who is marking them? Answer = Nobody. Assignon, Brownhill and Amdouni all marking space. Shearer is right, absolute bobbins defending and a complete shambles all over the box. Doesn't matter if you play really well except for when the three goals go in, the fact is three goals went in due to poor marking, decision making, & loose control etc at the key moments. It doesn't help if you have Brian Jensen Mark 2 in the nets.

Indeed. Shearer pointed out the general lack of authority beyond Trafford, and in particular the lack of decent blocking (this rather than marking because we dont mark man for man, because it would be a succession of mismatches). That has been a recurring theme on corner goals this season (Everton and Fulham last week a prime example) and is one reason that Trafford has been unfairly criticised recently. There's a lack of aggression generally in our set piece defending.

[JohnDearyMe]

Indeed. Shearer pointed out the general lack of authority beyond Trafford, and in particular the lack of decent blocking (this rather than marking because we dont mark man for man, because it would be a succession of mismatches). That has been a recurring theme on corner goals this season (Everton and Fulham last week a prime example) and is one reason that Trafford has been unfairly criticised recently. There's a lack of aggression generally in our set piece defending.

Fully agree. Which makes the signing of our rookie keeper all the more baffling. Given his lack of authority he needs a far more solid back line in front of him

[ClaretLoup]

. That has been a recurring theme on corner goals this season (Everton and Fulham last week a prime example) and is one reason that Trafford has been unfairly criticised recently.

One of Trafford's problems that he has been rightly criticised for is decision making. He has developed a nasty habit of vacating his net and making it easy for the forward to score. As on Saturday, the goals aren't entirely his fault, but he ends up in no man's land too many times, three times recently, Luton goal (Ok he was fouled but he was never going to get there after hesitating, tiptoeing out then trying to jump from a standing position,) the second Fulham goal and the obvious one vs Liverpool. Further back there are others like the goal at Bournemouth. Shay Given did an excellent appraisal on the paucity of some his technique earlier in the season, problems any decent goal-keeping coach or player himself ought to be able to rectify.

At the very highest level there are question marks not only with regard to the manager but also the calibre of his backroom staff as well.

[claretspice]

One of Trafford's problems that he has been rightly criticised for is decision making. He has developed a nasty habit of vacating his net and making it easy for the forward to score. As on Saturday, the goals aren't entirely his fault, but he ends up in no man's land too many times, three times recently, Luton goal (Ok he was fouled but he was never going to get there after hesitating, tiptoeing out then trying to jump from a standing position,) the second Fulham goal and the obvious one vs Liverpool. Further back there are others like the goal at Bournemouth. Shay Given did an excellent appraisal on the paucity of some his technique earlier in the season, problems any decent goal-keeping coach or player himself ought to be able to rectify.

At the very highest level there are question marks not only with regard to the manager but also the calibre of his backroom staff as well.

Don't agree with you regarding the Luton goal. That was a straightforward case of a keeper being fouled just as he was bracing to jump. Sure, he was caught in no man's land for Fulham's second but in his mitigation I suspect he was as surprised as the rest of us that a speculative punt caught our defence out so comprehensively and allowed a 1v1 chance.

Trafford has made mistakes this season. No question. He was probably the wrong keeper for what we needed this season. But he's also become a lightening rod for broader failings which are leaving him exposed too often.

[Blondeclaret]

...on MOTD
"From a defensive point of view, Burnley are miles off."

Can't really disagree.

Well I think he was spot on! Burnley’s problems have always been defending in the box, and the amount of goals scored against them from headers confirms this. But now it seems they also have issues in both boxes.

[agreenwood]

Shearer’s right, but it’s hardly news.

I actually think defending in the PL generally this season is poor. It’s probably an art that’s being lost a little bit.

I’m sat watching the West Ham vs Arsenal game and some of the early defending from the former has been **** poor. How does tiny Trossard drift on between West Ham’s giant centre halves for a free header for example? Then 4 really **** goals to concede on a par with anything we did yesterday. This is an expensively assembled dour David Moyes defence averaging the best part of conceding 2 goals a game this season.

It’s evidenced through the rise in goals scored in the PL over the last half a decade. All of the highest goal scoring years in the PL are from recent history. Is the attacking better or the defending getting worse?

I actually think our bigger problem is at the other end. We don’t score enough, so too much focus is on our defence. Yesterday was a prime example. We miss 3-4 gilt edged chances and all the analysis from Shearer is on our defensive frailties.

Not many sides come up and have solid defences. The sides who stay up are the ones who score goals. For all the plaudits Luton have had for being fiercely competitive this season, their defensive record isn’t much better than ours. They score more goals and important times. We miss too many chances at important times.

[ClaretLoup]

Shearer’s right, but it’s hardly news.

I actually think our bigger problem is at the other end. We don’t score enough, so too much focus is on our defence. Yesterday was a prime example. We miss 3-4 gilt edged chances and all the analysis from Shearer is on our defensive frailties.

Not sure I agree with this. The first season Burnley went down under Dyche we conceded 53 goals and the season they stayed up 55 whilst scoring 25 and then 39 respectively. So scoring more goals kept them up, but so did having a much tighter defence than they have at the moment which is performing at Owen Coyle/Brian Laws levels. At the moment Burnley are on course to hit that 39 goal mark, which in the past was enough to keep them up, but won't be this season if they keep conceding at the same rate so Shearer is right to focus on defensive frailties. Burnley have scored seven goals in the last five games and got two points to show for it.

[agreenwood]

Not sure I agree with this. The first season Burnley went down under Dyche we conceded 53 goals and the season they stayed up 55 whilst scoring 25 and then 39 respectively. So scoring more goals kept them up, but so did having a much tighter defence than they have at the moment which is performing at Owen Coyle/Brian Laws levels. At the moment Burnley are on course to hit that 39 goal mark, which in the past was enough to keep them up, but won't be this season if they keep conceding at the same rate so Shearer is right to focus on defensive frailties. Burnley have scored seven goals in the last five games and got two points to show for it.

Dyche was (and still is) an outlier I think. Outside of the top 6, Everton are the only side barely conceding over a goal a game. Even the Liverpool defence looked ropey when tested yesterday.

Luton are billed as the new equivalent to those promoted Dyche teams in the way they play, but it’s not born out through the stats. Their defensive record is far worse than even the relegated Dyche team of 14/15. What Luton seem to have a knack of doing is scoring goals that count.

I just think our inability is to score puts all the focus on our defence, which has been poor, but isn’t necessarily significantly worse than some of our rivals. They are more equipped to pick up points because they score goals.

[basil6345789]

The Captain should always be the Centre Half, who should make sure that his lads always "mark their man".

[claretspice]

Dyche was (and still is) an outlier I think. Outside of the top 6, Everton are the only side barely conceding over a goal a game. Even the Liverpool defence looked ropey when tested yesterday.

Luton are billed as the new equivalent to those promoted Dyche teams in the way they play, but it’s not born out through the stats. Their defensive record is far worse than even the relegated Dyche team of 14/15. What Luton seem to have a knack of doing is scoring goals that count.

I just think our inability is to score puts all the focus on our defence, which has been poor, but isn’t necessarily significantly worse than some of our rivals. They are more equipped to pick up points because they score goals.

Certainly conceding 9 goals across games at Arsenal, City and Liverpool doesn't feel a particularly outlier compared to performances and outcomes under Dyche.

[agreenwood]

In the first 9 games (up to Brentford away) we conceded 23 goals at a rate of 2.6 goals per game. We've conceded 27 in the following 15 games at a rate of 1.8 goals per game. Whilst 1.8 goals per game is obviously nothing to crow about and we still make plenty of mistakes, there's been an improvement in the last 2/3rds of the fixtures we've played so far. I haven't looked, but I suspect if you look at the rate of goals conceded by most of our relegation rivals over the last 15-16 games, our defence won't statistically be any worse. Even taking the season as a whole, 7 other clubs have conceded 40 goals or over this season. Statistically we're not miles out on our own.

We just don't score enough to give ourselves a chance and it compounds the fact that, like a lot of teams in the bottom half, we have defensive frailties.