Home before the final whistle

[claret2018]

Anyone who stayed until the end yesterday is a mug.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Anyone who stayed until the end yesterday is a mug.

The fan police won't like that

[Westleigh]

I love threads like this. You can almost smell the smugness of some super fans .

Best post of the season.

[pushpinpussy]

Its amazing how this season we have all these fairweather fans again. Please, do us a favour and just stay ay home. You all appall me.

[NewClaret]

We’ve got 8 years of premier league experience in the last 10 years…. Clubs have always had more expensive players, but in the main we’ve been competitive. This year, we’ve been totally uncompetitive all season.

Dyches teams were too much substance over style….. this team is totally style over substance…. There is no substance to it, the money spent on individuals has not created a team.

I agree with this to an extent, although I think the issue is more that we’ve bought players for a ‘style’ that we’ve Worked out we can’t play in this league. Which isn’t ideal, obviously, but I feel they’ll do well in the league below if we hold on to them.

[blatherwickstattoos]

This forum is brilliant after a defeat

[Westleigh]

Its amazing how this season we have all these fairweather fans again. Please, do us a favour and just stay ay home. You all appall me.

You can be as appalled as you want ,but it won’t make the players try harder or VK be less stubborn.

[burnleymik]

Only cowards leave early.

[burnleymik]

There are many good reasons for leaving early yesterday. Including showing the management, players and Board how disappointed we all were.

Then factor in the weather, the performance on the pitch and the fact that even the majority of our players didn't want to be there and it's quite easy to see why people decided enough was enough.

[NewClaret]

I would say we still have all the key players from last year.
No maatsen, no tella, basically no muric, basically no cullen as he doesn't look up to it.

This is a fair point but Maatsen and Tella were never our players and our record in developing them will no doubt help us sign other good players from top 6 sides in summer.

Muric is still ours but I take the point that he may now be massively disgruntled.

Cullen I see no issue with.

[Targetman]

Anyone who stayed until the end yesterday is a mug.

A bit ironic coming from a person who doesn't even go!

[StayingDown4Ever]

There are many good reasons for leaving early yesterday. Including showing the management, players and Board how disappointed we all were.

I see what you’re saying here. That said, if all those who went had waited for the whistle to join in with the boos at the end of the game, I’m not sure if that would have had a bigger impact on the management, players and board.

[NewClaret]

Only cowards leave early.

This’ll get you some stick

I religiously stay to the end and clap them off even when it’s a perverse form of self-torture. I could probably get in the SAS after this season.

In all honesty, makes me feel a lot better to give the lads my support. In honesty, I don’t see lack of effort, just a mismatch of ability.

[daveisaclaret]

Going to the football is a hobby and watching a full match when we're crap doesn't make you a special little boy.

I had to stay for family reasons (my dad is as weird as some of you) and it was really quite unpleasant.

[Rammy1968]

In my 52 years of watching Burnley I have never felt as disassociated with the team and club. I understand the model but the club have been very nieve coming up to the Prem and totally changing the team.

[Burnleyareback2]

The 2 guests sat next to Mr Pace left at about 80mins, thought that was pretty impressive.

[Jamesy]

The 2 guests sat next to Mr Pace left at about 80mins, thought that was pretty impressive.

Pace’s missus would have probably left her seat early and retired to the director’s lounge if he hadn’t been gripping her hand so tightly.

[Leisure]

I love threads like this. You can almost smell the smugness of some super fans .

How did you arrive at the conclusion that it's showing 'smugness' to support your team???

[Leisure]

Anyone who stayed until the end yesterday is a mug.

Or a 'supporter' of their team.

[RVclaret]

In my 52 years of watching Burnley I have never felt as disassociated with the team and club. I understand the model but the club have been very nieve coming up to the Prem and totally changing the team.

Interesting isn’t it, in my 24 years of watching Burnley, I’ve never felt as associated.

[Quickenthetempo]

The 2 guests sat next to Mr Pace left at about 80mins, thought that was pretty impressive.

Was one of them Malcolm Jenkins? The club have tweeted he was there yesterday.

[Targetman]

How did you arrive at the conclusion that it's showing 'smugness' to support your team???

This is the guy who started a thread by calling the players cowards.
Just ignore him, he is seeking a bit of limelight!

[Jamesy]

Was one of them Malcolm Jenkins? The club have tweeted he was there yesterday.

Whooooo ?

[spt_claret]

Interesting isn’t it, in my 24 years of watching Burnley, I’ve never felt as associated.

I don't mean this as a trolling question, genuinely curious- how, and why, do you feel like this?
Because I'm also in the "completely detached, doesn't feel like my club" camp. And it's nothing to do with foreign players or a foreign owner, I'm not a Burnley local, I've felt for years we underused the overseas market, and back in the days of Stan I loved our overseas signings even if they were hit-miss.
The owners feel like they don't grasp the club, or it's connection to the fans or town to me (I might not live in the town but I do understand the importance of that link).
The players don't feel like they play for the shirt.
We don't seem to have much identity.
The chairman does a lot of nice PR shaking hands and talking positively, but has taken the Academy backwards for all his talk there and just made several decisions around the ground that seem more geared towards what he personally wants, than what fans want. Legends pictures are a microcosm for that.

So I'm not being confrontational when I ask this but sincerely, how do you feel more associated than ever?

[dandeclaret]

Interesting isn’t it, in my 24 years of watching Burnley, I’ve never felt as associated.

What are the elements that make you feel so associated? What are the values, morals, approaches etc that align with how you see football?

[Quickenthetempo]

Interesting isn’t it, in my 24 years of watching Burnley, I’ve never felt as associated.

Burnley football club is like the mobile phone at the minute.

It's making people from accross the world feel close, but them sat next to it in the same room, very distant.

[taio]

Interesting isn’t it, in my 24 years of watching Burnley, I’ve never felt as associated.

That's positive. And of course each to their own. But I guess you're in a small minority.

[Quickenthetempo]

Whooooo ?

https://twitter.com/BurnleyOfficial/sta ... jKtHg&s=19

[RVclaret]

So I'm not being confrontational when I ask this but sincerely, how do you feel more associated than ever?

What are the elements that make you feel so associated? What are the values, morals, approaches etc that align with how you see football?

Clear strategy & vision. Wanting this place to be a place young players want to come and develop. Good communication from the club (really liked Matt Williams on BBC Lancs) and chairman. Club documentary on Sky (could never have imagined this a decade ago) going into the behind the scenes. They are a few things. Compared to the past, this is a great time to be a Claret.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Clear strategy & vision. Wanting this place to be a place young players want to come and develop. Good communication from the club (really liked Matt Williams on BBC Lancs) and chairman. Club documentary on Sky (could never have imagined this a decade ago) going into the behind the scenes. They are a few things. Compared to the past, this is a great time to be a Claret.

This has to be a generational thing. You feel close because you see things on social media.

This doesn’t even feel like Burnley for me.

Everything I liked about the club is quickly being torn away to become a cheap American franchise

[dandeclaret]

Cool, that makes sense. From
My perspective I enjoyed the fact that the club didn’t buy into all of the myths about football… that you could only play one way, that you had to spend huge money on over valued footballers with questionable morals and attitudes, and I enjoyed that hard work, endeavour, talent and team spirit delivered results. Very much substance over style, but it was unique. Now we’re just another club gambling on being over broke on the hope of developing a
Mythical profitable talent pipeline and getting results. No club of Burnley’s size has done that in the top flight for a prolonged spell, and the championship and below are full
Of Icarus style clubs who flew too close to the sun.

[RVclaret]

This has to be a generational thing. You feel close because you see things on social media.

This doesn’t even feel like Burnley for me.

Everything I liked about the club is quickly being torn away to become a cheap American franchise

We’re the same age. You don’t go on games. I do.

[Newcastleclaret93]

We’re the same age. You don’t go on games. I do.

You’re 7 years younger than me.

I’ve been on 11 games this season until I decided sticking needles in my eyes was more fun

[daveisaclaret]

Clear strategy & vision. Wanting this place to be a place young players want to come and develop. Good communication from the club (really liked Matt Williams on BBC Lancs) and chairman. Club documentary on Sky (could never have imagined this a decade ago) going into the behind the scenes. They are a few things. Compared to the past, this is a great time to be a Claret.

This is funny as hell and the idea that anyone could actually believe it is like a cherry on top too.

[RVclaret]

You’re 7 years younger than me.

I’ve been on 11 games this season until I decided sticking needles in my eyes was more fun

I’m not, your username tells me we are the same age.

[spt_claret]

Clear strategy & vision. Wanting this place to be a place young players want to come and develop. Good communication from the club (really liked Matt Williams on BBC Lancs) and chairman. Club documentary on Sky (could never have imagined this a decade ago) going into the behind the scenes. They are a few things. Compared to the past, this is a great time to be a Claret.

See I just can't agree with any of that except 1 point- wanting to bring in young players (which we did well under Dyche until around 2019). How is this great compared to a past that saw multiple years of Prem stability, a European qualification, and at one point having 4 CURRENT England internationals in the squad at once (Heaton, Pope, Cork, Tarkowski) plus recent international Joe Hart? Having a starter for Belgium when they were world number 1, in the squad?

We had strategy and vision under Dyche, you might not have liked it but we had one, it achieved things, and it was only when the purse strings snapped shut to prep for the sale to ALK that it started to go wrong. We had longterm off-pitch strategy too, building up the training ground, and building the Academy from the brink of closure to Cat 1. That is long term vision in ACTION, not talk.
I fully disagree on good communication. We get frequent soundbites and handshakes in the fanzone. The finances are still entirely opaque with huge questions left unanswered about the takeover, loan debt, etc. The Academy's gone backwards and never been tangibly addressed. Fan complaints or concerns are often addressed via soundbite if at all. They're deeply unaccountable on tough issues, they make a lot of noise but only talk to favourable audiences.
The documentary was a nice watch but the big takeaway I had from it is one that everyone keeps overlooking- ALK let the spending get out of hand, overspent, and promotion became a necessity. That shows that the "ahead of schedule" talk, the "we had a plan for the finances with relegation" talk, the "we were prepping for 2-3 years down" talk, was tangibly untrue in practice, and that either they never really meant it, or they did, mismanaged their spending, then kept that talk up well after they'd become aware of the reality. That's an uncomfortable truth, but it's spelled out in the doc. We had to go up last year.
They're great at PR for their brand. They're great at getting the press to air/say nice things or not ask tough questions. That doesn't equal connectivity to me, that equals being media-savvy.

[blatherwickstattoos]

How did you arrive at the conclusion that it's showing 'smugness' to support your team???

The whole “look at me I stayed until the end” is childish and as though they think they are superior to a fan who decides to leave earlier. The majority of these so called fans won’t be singing or making any kind of atmosphere anyway. Might as well have had nobody there yesterday wouldn’t have made any kind of difference

[BabylonClaret]

Cool, that makes sense. From
My perspective I enjoyed the fact that the club didn’t buy into all of the myths about football… that you could only play one way, that you had to spend huge money on over valued footballers with questionable morals and attitudes, and I enjoyed that hard work, endeavour, talent and team spirit delivered results. Very much substance over style, but it was unique. Now we’re just another club gambling on being over broke on the hope of developing a
Mythical profitable talent pipeline and getting results. No club of Burnley’s size has done that in the top flight for a prolonged spell, and the championship and below are full
Of Icarus style clubs who flew too close to the sun.

Oof!

I have to say I dande, i think i agree. I am a bit worried over the future because unlike RV I'm not sure the clear strategy the owners have is going to work at our club. They need to dial it back a few notches and think about how you manage consistency in game where the fluid nature of it means stats and paper strength is just the start.

[RVclaret]

Finances were never discussed before apart from during Covid when Garlick was forced to comment, so not sure why or what they’d need to say.

Again, last season, when we were winning, there were no comments on disassociation or being detached. The club did an amazing job on the documentary and fans were over their heels in amazement in how good everything was.

I’m not an over-emotional supporter like many, I appreciate there and highs and lows in football, more so when I chose to support Burnley. This allows me to see through the poor season it’s been, not get over-emotional and reactionary cause we are losing and have a sense of perspective on where we are at and what we are doing. It would be great if the fan base stayed unified through this and support our young manager and team.

[Neil]

Cool, that makes sense. From
My perspective I enjoyed the fact that the club didn’t buy into all of the myths about football… that you could only play one way, that you had to spend huge money on over valued footballers with questionable morals and attitudes, and I enjoyed that hard work, endeavour, talent and team spirit delivered results. Very much substance over style, but it was unique. Now we’re just another club gambling on being over broke on the hope of developing a
Mythical profitable talent pipeline and getting results. No club of Burnley’s size has done that in the top flight for a prolonged spell, and the championship and below are full
Of Icarus style clubs who flew too close to the sun.

Indeed. Last year was exciting because we "gambled" on the likes of Benson, Zaroury and even Cullen from memory in the £3-4 million bracket.

We had a clear way of playing and it looked very much like we were aiming to combine, as you put it, style and substance.

The playing style has evaporated and he's tried to repeat last year's formula but with £15 million players rather than 3-4.

Obviously it hasn't worked this time. It was.never likely to work as you can't shoehorn that many players into a coherent 11. (Look at Chelsea)

I remember that banner a few years ago, Burnley FC, built not bought, and it gave me a sense of pride which I'd use in our defense when debating with fans of other teams.

Now we are Derby, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Coventry etc etc.

[AGENT_CLARET]

Its amazing how this season we have all these fairweather fans again. Please, do us a favour and just stay ay home. You all appall me.

Fairweather or not, six month's a fan or sixty year's a fan, all fan's are allowed to voice an opinion about the crap on display this season, also in my opinion the "you all appall me" quote is a little attention seeking on your behalf

[spt_claret]

Cool, that makes sense. From
My perspective I enjoyed the fact that the club didn’t buy into all of the myths about football… that you could only play one way, that you had to spend huge money on over valued footballers with questionable morals and attitudes, and I enjoyed that hard work, endeavour, talent and team spirit delivered results. Very much substance over style, but it was unique. Now we’re just another club gambling on being over broke on the hope of developing a
Mythical profitable talent pipeline and getting results. No club of Burnley’s size has done that in the top flight for a prolonged spell, and the championship and below are full
Of Icarus style clubs who flew too close to the sun.

100%.
I thought we had a very admirable ethos, and a brand identity that could have been capitalised on that didn't have to be pigeonholed as "dour insular Brexitball". We could have been a modern throwback- a manager with traditional values about hard work and honesty and fair play, but a forward thinking mindset in terms of his use of analytics, empathy & man management of troubled players, and basically just served as an ambassador club for every type of fan around the world who feels the rush for money and fame has gotten in the way of the game, who likes the sport and players but doesn't like prima donna culture around some players, doesn't like the diving, cheating, buy to win mentality etc. That's not Little Englander, that's universal. There's absolutely a huge untapped market for that type of fan Stateside, a big issue Americans have with football is the lack of physicality, the playacting, and the entitled soft-act culture a lot of players have now. We could have very easily marketed ourselves to an American audience, or Europe, or further afield if we recruited smart. Hard workers who do things the right way can be found all over the world, as can people who value that. We had a legitimately unique brand identity, it was our own fault that we never capitalised on it.

The minute 'anti-football' was a tag used by Chelsea against us, the club should have been merchandising that, owning and embracing it. Anti-football in the modern overpaid diva sense. Anti-football, pro-footie.
I'm not a fan of charity-marketing that businesses or celebs like to use, where they make a big show of their brand on being how charitable or socially generous they are. Rashford getting paid to be the face of campaigns comes to mind- yes he did good work, but he got money and attention for it. But, that said, we missed opportunities there. Not just our community links, but more specific things like Dyche helping out Keith Treacy, or other players who've been supported through hardship. Relies on them being ready and willing to talk publicly, not everyone can be as brave as Dele Alli, but that would have done wonders to dispel the 'crude narrowminded hoofball' tag we got stuck with.
We never owned our brand or used it. That's probably part on Dyche not wanting cameras on the training ground too much but also on the club- Dyche grinning in the snow should have been the sort of thing we used as our image regularly.
We then seemed to get so self conscious at the media stick (especially after incidents like the Man City plane) that we threw everything into looking like the opposite. Which just makes it look like the critics were right- we never defended our image properly.

Last season I had hopes that even if we had moved much more in line with trends we'd keep that, as we still had a sense of identity creeping through. I posted that we felt like Ted Lasso at times. I was feeling disconnected with a lot of off-the-pitch goings on, but connected to the team in spite of other changes. Can't say the same now, and it's not about results- I felt connected to Dyche's teams even when it was bad, felt connected every prior relegation. I even felt connected during Cotterill's winless streak as dull as it was. It's a feeling you can't always explain or quantify.

[dandeclaret]

Finances were never discussed before apart from during Covid when Garlick was forced to comment, so not sure why or what they’d need to say.

Again, last season, when we were winning, there were no comments on disassociation or being detached. The club did an amazing job on the documentary and fans were over their heels in amazement in how good everything was.

I’m not an over-emotional supporter like many, I appreciate there and highs and lows in football, more so when I chose to support Burnley. This allows me to see through the poor season it’s been, not get over-emotional and reactionary cause we are losing and have a sense of perspective on where we are at and what we are doing. It would be great if the fan base stayed unified through this and support our young manager and team.

Just to be clear on a couple of points in this

1) there were prolonged discussions on finances only after the financial profile changed. The reason they weren’t discussed in Garlick’s time is because the club was debt free, and the accounts were clear and easy to understand.

2) There was supporter club in particular comments about being disconnected from the club, the player board removal and lack of honesty around that was raised a number of times, the abolishment of communication with supporters clubs, the difficulties with the food bank and community elements, were all there.

So let’s stop the airbrushing of them… you can absolutely have an opinion on the importance of them, and whether you find them valuable at Burnley football club, but let’s not pretend they weren’t there.

[Burnley Ace]

Jumping in here and I apologise in advance if I go off topic.

Imagine a line up of -
Muric
Roberts THB(£15m) Beyer Maatsen (£20m at start of window)
Cullen Brownhill
Berge (£12m)
Tella (£18m) Foster Koleosho (£3m)

That team absolutely wipes the floor with the current crop, keeps the majority of the team from last season and still has the likes of Benson, Zaroury, Jay, JBG, Cork for the experience and impact off the bench. Not to mention the considerable amount of money saved on the likes of Trafford, Ramsay, Tresor, Amdouni. If it didn’t work, at least we could then look back and say the team that got us there aren’t good enough, and in January we could have tweaked it a little, as opposed to the complete rebuild we endured in the summer, again.

The difficulty for me is the lack of consistency/transition from last season. The money we have spent, together with the performances on the pitch, added to the lack of loyalty shown in the players that got us here, it really feels to me that we are on a knife edge of spiralling out of control.

Assignon - who knows if he’ll stay
Esteve - probably won’t play in Champ next season
Taylor - probably leaves
Berge - deserves to stay in Prem
Ramsay - maybe has a clause he goes back to Villa on relegation, similar to Archer at Sheff Utd
Amdouni - won’t play in Champ
Odobert - our only profitable asset at present
Koleosho - if he gets fit before the end of the season could be sold for profit
Foster - as much as I rate him, he could move

Take all of them out of the team, we’re left with the majority of last seasons team. What’s to say those remaining will ‘play’ for VK again next year?

‘Look lads, I know you got us up last time we were in this division, I need you all to put another massive shift in, get us promoted again, then you’ll be on the bench again the following season in the Prem’

I would be seriously p!ssed off if I was Muric, Roberts, Cork, Cullen, Benson, Zaroury etc. None have had the minutes they deserve this season for getting us here and we can’t rely on them simply coming back in next season.

As for yesterdays game, I knew we wouldn’t get anything, hence I decided for a day out with the family instead, it’s the manner in which the goals are conceded and the lack of fight in this team.

For the rest of the season I’d be picking an 11 for the championship next season and get them gelling.

Roberts, Cork, Cullen and probably Muric aren’t good enough, THB - no other Prem club came in for him and Tella is as unproven at this level as any of our signings

[spt_claret]

Finances were never discussed before apart from during Covid when Garlick was forced to comment, so not sure why or what they’d need to say.

Again, last season, when we were winning, there were no comments on disassociation or being detached. The club did an amazing job on the documentary and fans were over their heels in amazement in how good everything was.

I’m not an over-emotional supporter like many, I appreciate there and highs and lows in football, more so when I chose to support Burnley. This allows me to see through the poor season it’s been, not get over-emotional and reactionary cause we are losing and have a sense of perspective on where we are at and what we are doing. It would be great if the fan base stayed unified through this and support our young manager and team.

They ought to be discussed because accounts aren't being filed, companies might be struck off involved in the ownership or takeover having never even filed accounts, and all we really know is- the club is in debt, but not to who, or how much, or what the terms are. It's wildly different to under Garlick- Garlick's communication on finances was limited because it was all transparent, it was all plain to see in the annual accounts. We didn't spend much, we ran at marginal profit, we had cash in the bank. Wholly different.
There absolutely were people who felt disconnected with off-pitch happenings, myself included. On-pitch yes, I felt connected. But whenever people mentioned off-pitch discontent they were called boo boys always looking for the negatives and to just shut up and enjoy the football. Or told "You dont own the club, Pace does, you have no business questioning or caring". It's constant from some- you have discontent when things are good on pitch, you're a negative boo boy. Discontent when things are bad on the pitch? "Youve been waiting for this, you were quiet when we were winning" etc. It's just not true, you can hold more than one idea in your mind at once, about more than 1 aspect of the club.

[Leisure]

The whole “look at me I stayed until the end” is childish and as though they think they are superior to a fan who decides to leave earlier.

Don't see why you would consider it childish for people who stayed on to the end to say so, especially on a thread in which other people appear to relish telling everyone that they didn't stay. As I posted earlier, everyone has a right to leave early if they want but then why the need to seemingly brag about it? Weird

[burnleymik]

I’m not an over-emotional supporter like many, I appreciate there and highs and lows in football, more so when I chose to support Burnley. This allows me to see through the poor season it’s been, not get over-emotional and reactionary cause we are losing and have a sense of perspective on where we are at and what we are doing. It would be great if the fan base stayed unified through this and support our young manager and team.

I think there would be many more people with you if we could actually see improvements on the pitch. It's not just about a poor season, I wouldn't have a problem with a poor season if it looked like the young lads were improving and the team getting better. If we could see unity and cohesion, especially given the number of poor VAR decisions we have had, it would have unified us, as a fan base.

The problem is we know that no matter how bad VAR has been, it wouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things because of the performance on the pitch. Watching the players body language alone you can see that something isn't quite right. I genuinely don't think this is a problem VK can now fix, without drastic change and there has been no sign of him being prepared to do that all season.

[taio]

Finances were never discussed before apart from during Covid when Garlick was forced to comment, so not sure why or what they’d need to say.

Again, last season, when we were winning, there were no comments on disassociation or being detached. The club did an amazing job on the documentary and fans were over their heels in amazement in how good everything was.

I’m not an over-emotional supporter like many, I appreciate there and highs and lows in football, more so when I chose to support Burnley. This allows me to see through the poor season it’s been, not get over-emotional and reactionary cause we are losing and have a sense of perspective on where we are at and what we are doing. It would be great if the fan base stayed unified through this and support our young manager and team.

The financial context is hugely different, which is why under the current model there is more scrutiny. There were concerns last season for sure.

[Burnleyareback2]

Was one of them Malcolm Jenkins? The club have tweeted he was there yesterday.

No idea who they were but certainly not Malcolm Jenkins.

Saw that tweet- don’t ever recall hearing he was an investor in the club.

[CoolClaret]

The minute 'anti-football' was a tag used by Chelsea against us, the club should have been merchandising that, owning and embracing it. Anti-football in the modern overpaid diva sense. Anti-football, pro-footie.

God how good would that have been.

Christ I really miss what we were four seasons or so back - just another club now, sadly.