The most disappointing thing for me

[KRBFC]

I’ve said it many times but the most disappointing thing is we got promoted with an inverted fullback (Roberts), a high and wide full back (Maatsen), Cullen the deepest man at times collecting off the goalkeeper and filling in for the high full back. Inverted wingers, Gudmundsson not used wide but central. 4231 and we’d press high in packs and get after sides.

We get promoted and completely abandoned all of the above, we don’t press high in packs, we can’t keep the ball, there’s no patterns of play, no inverted full back, no possession unless knocking around the defence slowly.

I keep hearing pundits say we are going down being brave by sticking to what got us promoted, that’s so untrue…. We are going down cowardly, I think VK listened to many before a ball was kicked, those who said we couldn’t play that way at this level , he didn’t even give it a chance.

[KRBFC]

I’m still VK in, I believe he will learn from this season and put it right with time.

We should have stuck to our in depth VK system, 4231 inverted full back, high press possession and overloading the wide areas.

We didn’t recruit to play that way either.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Last season seems like a distant dream. Just doing away with all that was so good last season in order to accommodate the likes of Trafford and Amdouni has been criminal. As on other thread would not be shocked at all if he’s gone by Monday.

[taio]

Last season seems like a distant dream. Just doing away with all that was so good last season in order to accommodate the likes of Trafford and Amdouni has been criminal. As on other thread would not be shocked at all if he’s gone by Monday.

I'd be surprised if we could afford to get rid of him now. Not that I think we should. It's be a tough season with several baffling decisions though.

[jedi_master]

No idea what Kompany and Paces transfer strategy was and that has probably influenced the bizarre system we’ve adopted which has no clear pattern of play and is certainly not ‘attractive’ to watch anymore.

If we had signed Harwood-Bellis, Tella, Berge, Mattsen (or someone else) and a right back as opposed to the absolute mess we opted for we’d have definitely done better. People were constantly saying ‘Tella’s not worth this/that’ and calling for us to sign shite like Tresor. We could have signed those players and a right back for roughly a little less than what we spent and crucially retained our team spirit which was lost instantly. The decision making with players like Muric, Benson and Zaroury is even more heinous as we’ve not only killed their valuation but (likely) their affinity to the club and desire to help us get promoted again. Total mess.

[Swizzlestick]

We've abandoned everything. It's crazy. Without wishing to reignite a tired debate on this thread too, I do think it's partly to accommodate a keeper who doesn't have the skillset. There are many, many other issues. We're now just this odd vaguely pragmatic playing for percentages team using player with neither the attributes or work rate to play it. So it's shite to watch and utterly ineffective.

[ksrclaret]

We actually started at least trying to play something resembling last season's style. Then the manager realised he'd signed a load of lightweight fannies who couldn't be arsed to press (despite telling us he knew exactly how physical the PL is) and has since switched to the nothingness we see now that has resulted in even the most die hard Burnley fans giving up on the club.

[Tricky Trevor]

I’m still VK in, I believe he will learn from this season and put it right with time.

We should have stuck to our in depth VK system, 4231 inverted full back, high press possession and overloading the wide areas.

We didn’t recruit to play that way either.

We didn’t recruit to stay up. A shocking window that has produced 2 prospects, Koleosho and Odobert, and a decent signing in O’Shea. Magnificent shot stopper though he is I don’t think Trafford will ever be PL standard, far too many weaknesses in his game.

[Vegas Claret]

We didn’t recruit to stay up. A shocking window that has produced 2 prospects, Koleosho and Odobert, and a decent signing in O’Shea. Magnificent shot stopper though he is I don’t think Trafford will ever be PL standard, far too many weaknesses in his game.

he runs the risk of becoming the next Jack Butland if we aren't careful

[CoolClaret]

No - he tried it at the beginning of the Season, Cullen was filling in at fullback but our Keeper and also the centre half he signed couldn't play the short stuff at any sort of speed and we just got pressed to death. Then he changed.

At Spurs we saw a throwback to last season with Cullen splitting the centre halves picking the ball up - wonder what changed?

We actually started at least trying to play something resembling last season's style. Then the manager realised he'd signed a load of lightweight fannies who couldn't be arsed to press (despite telling us he knew exactly how physical the PL is) and has since switched to the nothingness we see now that has resulted in even the most die hard Burnley fans giving up on the club.

Yup.

[FCBurnley]

How many affairs do you allow your wife to have before you divorce her ?

[Rileybobs]

Like I said in the matchday thread, the opening game against Man City which was supposedly going to be our worst performances of the season, was probably one of our best, and most similar in style to last season with the intensity of our game, particularly off the ball. Watching Odobert jog around today was appalling. A 19 year old playing professional football in the Premier League, literally jogging around the pitch. It’s completely inexcusable.

[Goody1975]

Our biggest issue was not recruiting a player in the centre of the park who could have protected the back four and allowed us to use the system in the opening post.

At the beginning of the season we'd lose the ball in the opponents half and almost immediately the opposition would have a chance on our goal due to the weakness in this area.

If we are copying City in their style of play we need to realise that their most important player isn't Haaland, De Bruyne or Foden but is infact Rodri, he allows them to play the way they do. They have coped at times without the other three but pretty sure they are at their most vulnerable when he is missing.

[KRBFC]

No - he tried it at the beginning of the Season, Cullen was filling in at fullback but our Keeper and also the centre half he signed couldn't play the short stuff at any sort of speed and we just got pressed to death. Then he changed.

At Spurs we saw a throwback to last season with Cullen splitting the centre halves picking the ball up - wonder what changed?




Yup.

We started the season at home to Man City playing 5 at the back. We were 5 at the back second half against Spurs too.

So much faffing around when we’d have learnt an awful lot more just taking the loss against City playing our way and moving on.

I agree with you about Cullen, best player against Spurs now he’s back on the bench for Brownhill who’s consistently been our worst player for quite a while imo.

[helmclaret]

I'd be surprised if we could afford to get rid of him now. Not that I think we should. It's be a tough season with several baffling decisions though.

I’d imagine they would agree to pay him until he gets another job.

[KRBFC]

We even went to the Etihad last season and high pressed the life out of them, City fans were booing because their keeper was holding the ball until we forced him to boot it long.

Fair enough we got pasted 6-0 in the end but I think most BFC fans were encouraged by our bravery and performance in the first half.

I felt if we played like that away at some of these lower sides (Palace Brentford Forest etc) we’d cause them all kind of problems.

We’ve gone from that to walking away from Selhurst Park without a shot on target in 104 minutes of football, not a shot at all for close to 60 minutes and I don’t think we even passed the halfway line for the first 30 minutes.

[Chester Perry]

I’d imagine they would agree to pay him until he gets another job.

Just be aware that if his new job pays less we would still have to pay the difference for the rest of his contract - and that goes for everyone else that would be potted with him, if it was to actually happen, which I doubt.

[helmclaret]

That Wharton played like he was having a kick an about with his mates in the park. Probably never had so much freedom to play.

[Goliath]

No - he tried it at the beginning of the Season, Cullen was filling in at fullback but our Keeper and also the centre half he signed couldn't play the short stuff at any sort of speed and we just got pressed to death. Then he changed.

Looking back, he had Cullen alongside Brownhill who we know doesnt want to receive the ball of his centre backs so it was all left to Cullen and he ended up getting swamped and losing his confidence. Not using Jack Cork has been the biggest mistake of the season. Brownhill should be used as a pressing number 10 like last season or sat on the bench.

[mdd2]

I doubt we would have had so few points with either Muric or Peacock Farrell goalkeeping
Instead send one on loan bench another and spend potential Tella money on another keeper who imo would be number 3 to Muriccand PeacockFarrell

[TsarBomba]

VK would never do this as it would be conceding the season is lost, but I’d be inclined to back him if he was to pick a team and system with one eye on next season.

At least then, the fans could see there was a semblance of a plan in place.

What is the point of playing Assignon knowing he won’t be here next season? There’s no point playing any of the OOC players, either.

I’d be reintegrating Cullen, and using the next 12 games to get back to doing what we did so well last year as pointed out by the OP.

We may get thumped, but it wouldn’t be any worse than it is now, and it may mitigate a little of the hangover.

The difficulty is how we reintegrate those players from last year that have been discarded. VK may have to show a bit of humility.

[Vegas Claret]

there are no patterns of play, what exactly are they doing during the week ?

[gawthorpe_view]

For me it was the body language at the line up prior to kick off.
Palace players were bouncing around, obviously up for the challenge ahead.
The Burnley team looked like the clocking in queue for the first day back at work after Christmas.

[Rileybobs]

For me it was the body language at the line up prior to kick off.
Palace players were bouncing around, obviously up for the challenge ahead.
The Burnley team looked like the clocking in queue for the first day back at work after Christmas.

It pretty much feels like we’ve lost the game before it starts and you wonder if the players actually feel this way too.

[gawthorpe_view]

It pretty much feels like we’ve lost the game before it starts and you wonder if the players actually feel this way too.

Despite what Kompany said today I'm thinking they're pretty sure we're down already.

[Rileybobs]

Despite what Kompany said today I'm thinking they're pretty sure we're down already.

It doesn’t really bother me if they do know we’re down. But you would have thought that would almost take a weight off their shoulder yet the players don’t look like they’re enjoying playing at all.

[Andreshotboots]

The managers decision to bring the players back in for pre season ridiculously early doesn't seem to have done much good either.
Instead of us out running and out fighting teams due to superior fitness, we look, shattered and toothless.

[CoolClaret]

The managers decision to bring the players back in for pre season ridiculously early doesn't seem to have done much good either.
Instead of us out running and out fighting teams due to superior fitness, we look, shattered and toothless.

Sadly there's a lot of things that he's said and done now that's really backfired on him and made himself look a muppet. It's really sad considering where we were as a club in May 2023.

[AlargeClaret]

Dunno if I misjudged this (but watched a good stream )and I swear Odobert was just jogging around at times like in a pre season training match in the sun . I wanna see total desire even at 2/3-0 down , they should have collapsed with exhaustion at the end having given everything.

[matucana]

Despite what Kompany said today I'm thinking they're pretty sure we're down already.

and not prepared to risk injury that could prevent a move to another club with only eleven weeks of the season remaining . Could also apply to some of our longer term injuries that we have not seen for a while.

[Super Teds]

Most disappointing season I’ve ever seen in 30 years of watching. We’ve had worse players and obviously been lower in the pyramid but the apathy has been there for weeks maybe months. There’s no jeopardy going into games and the lack of so many things already mentioned means I find myself not that bothered what happens. Wasted opportunity doesn’t even come close to it for me. I still want VK to have a go at next season but this reminds me of playing youth football and losing 13-1 every week. That’s probably the most disappointing thing actually, it reminds me of my youth!

[Burnleyareback2]

I keep hearing pundits say we are going down being brave by sticking to what got us promoted, that’s so untrue…. We are going down cowardly, I think VK listened to many before a ball was kicked, those who said we couldn’t play that way at this level , he didn’t even give it a chance.
[/quote]

I wouldn’t declare myself a tactical expert but we are playing nothing like the formations last season. In most games I couldn’t even work out what formation we were playing.

Nothing but 4 4 2 this season.

[Carlos the Great]

Slightly bemused by VK pointing out that Trafford’s pass out to Brownhill changed the outcome of the game .:: we know ! And have you not been watching other games ? .. you are selecting him week in week out so own it VK /. It’s all on your watch

[BurnleyFC]

I’m thinking of giving up on games and going to watch training sessions instead, as I seem to recall Vinny explicitly saying early doors that he could already see the superior quality from the new guys.

[KRBFC]

I wouldn’t declare myself a tactical expert but we are playing nothing like the formations last season. In most games I couldn’t even work out what formation we were playing.

Nothing but 4 4 2 this season.

Exactly which is the most disappointing thing for me, I’d rather we actually did go down playing the same way that got us promoted.

[Carlos the Great]

I’m thinking of giving up on games and going to watch training sessions instead, as I seem to recall Vinny explicitly saying early doors that he could already see the superior quality from the new guys.

That’s a great idea .. let’s see what’s going on .. i wouldn’t be surprised if benny was dishing out the orange quarters at training

[Tricky Trevor]

It is starting to look like he’s lost the dressing room.
Lethargy is never pretty.

[boatshed bill]

Negativity.
It's no fffing good.

[Bin Ont Turf]

We aren't playing any different to last season, it's just that the quality of teams we're facing is higher.

The problem is that Vincent has cobbled together a bunch of really inexperienced players and asked them to be like his beloved Man City.

Which makes him clueless and us shite.

[KRBFC]

We aren't playing any different to last season, it's just that the quality of teams we're facing is higher.

We aren’t playing even remotely a similar system to last season though, I wish we were! One full back in midfield, one high and wide. High pressing. It’s all gone completely

[ClaretPete001]

I’ve said it many times but the most disappointing thing is we got promoted with an inverted fullback (Roberts), a high and wide full back (Maatsen), Cullen the deepest man at times collecting off the goalkeeper and filling in for the high full back. Inverted wingers, Gudmundsson not used wide but central. 4231 and we’d press high in packs and get after sides.

We get promoted and completely abandoned all of the above, we don’t press high in packs, we can’t keep the ball, there’s no patterns of play, no inverted full back, no possession unless knocking around the defence slowly.

I keep hearing pundits say we are going down being brave by sticking to what got us promoted, that’s so untrue…. We are going down cowardly, I think VK listened to many before a ball was kicked, those who said we couldn’t play that way at this level , he didn’t even give it a chance.

I'm not sure this is true. This is the team that started against City

1Trafford
14Roberts
Al Dakhil
2O'Shea
5Beyer
22da Silva
30Koleosho
16Berge
24Cullen
17Foster
25Amdouni

It feels a long time ago now and to be honest I can't remember much of it other than I thought it was a decent performance given the circumstances. But with the benefit of hindsight it looks very unbalanced. Some people saw it as a 5-4-1 but you could also argue it to be a 4-2-5, which is exactly how City play.

Bayer stepping up to join Cullen and Berge pushed further forward, which he was in the early parts of the season.

I'm not saying that is how it panned out but it definitely looked like a high pressing 4-3-3 to my eyes but you can see from the formation that the intention might have been a City like 4-2-5.

The problem was City scored 3, Villa scored 4, Spurs 5, Chelsea 4 and even Brentford 3.

If my memory serves me, the noticeable shift to 4-4-2 came in the Bournemouth game after the Brentford pasting. We returned to a double pivot. The older players were brought back in and we looked to have solved the issue. However, we haven't got midfield player good enough to play in a 4-4-2.

So, he did start off as a City Lite type approach but we weren't good enough, particularly, Cullen left on his own in midfield and then Bayer got injured.

I agree we should go back to a 4-2-3-1 but I think VK started with very lofty ambitions and we weren't good enough. I don't think he reacted to criticism - quite the opposite.

I'm now of the opinion that even if his Mrs asked him to load the dishwasher he wouldn't do it. On reflection he'd probably give Amdouni a bell and ask him to do it, which probably explains why all the cutlery ended up in the tumble dryer.

[Ric_C]

I can't remember a time at Burnley where both the manager and board have made so many mistakes in a short period of time

mistake 1: The players from last season earned the right to be tested in the prem, not giving them game time this season has been criminal. Specifically Cullen, Muric, Benson and Zaroury

mistake 2: Buying a rookie GK who can't play out from the back, therefore causing a catastrophic knock on effect, so as it has ended up us changing our whole style of play.

mistake 3: Not going all out on buying the players from last season who the fans fell in love with. THB, Tella (I know we tried for Maatsen)

mistake 4: Over reliance on buying youth in the most unforgiving league in the world. Hardly any of our signings have Premier League experience

mistake 5: Not addressing key areas. Both fullbacks, a physical defensive mid, and a top tier striker were requirements. We signed none in the summer

mistake 6: Buying too many players, therefore making most of last seasons squad unhappy with lack of game time

mistake 7: buying way too many wingers, all who are lightweight

mistake 8: extreme stubbornness from VK in not changing things up and giving the likes of Muric and Benson a go, when it is glaringly obvious it would give everyone a boost.

What is really annoying is that we knew even before Middlesbrough that we were going up, so we have had a LOT of time to plan for this. We should have been way ahead of Luton in terms of preparation.

Such an utterly bizarre season.

[Colburn_Claret]

It seems like a lifetime away, but last season was so good.
Those of us lucky to be old enough, were comparing them to the 72 team, which was a joy.
We weren't just the best team in the league, we were head and shoulders above the rest. Regularly dominating teams supposed to be our biggest rivals. Leicester are spoken of this season as far too good for the championship, they've lost 6 games already, we only lost 3 all season.

It begs the question what the hell happened?
Obviously it's more than 1 thing, a culmination of many errors, and many misfortunes, but even so, to go from being so good to being so bad, takes some doing. And we are definitely rank at the minute.

Mistakes in recruitment, and team selection are clear, but the biggest failing of all is VKs inability, or unwillingness, to make the changes. The pre match/post match conferences are a bore loads of confidence/loads of excuses. As fans I think we would rather hear the painful truth, than be fed a load of bullshit, but that's what we are getting.

At the end of the day we all have opinions in where it went wrong, but instead of concentrating on that we should be focused on how we can put it right. It isn't about saving this season, that's long been a lost cause, but how we can prepare, and lift, the players for next season. I think we have about our most talented squad in 30 years, lacking in certain departments, but talented. My fear is that if we don't resolve some of our failings this season, that next season will be a write off before a ball is kicked.