Assisted dying

[Venkys4eva]

Textbook example of how to refute allocations of being a nutjob

Thank you, people like you have to stoop to insults when they are wrong its the facebook/twitter mentality

[daveisaclaret]

Thank you, people like you have to stoop to insults when they are wrong its the facebook/twitter mentality

I'm insulting you specifically because you think none of us have gender and people are identifying as carrots

[HahaYeah]

It should never be an option for someone who is depressed.

It should be an option for anyone who doesn't want to die in agony.

[GetIntoEm]

Rather be dead than in a care home having seen family go down that route.

Sign me up

[Colburn_Claret]

I would say it depends on the individual person and their competence to make the decision.
I don't think it should be granted to anybody who isn't suffering great pain, being bored is no reason to top yourself, or even generally feeling sorry for yourself.

[Carlos the Great]

I personally don’t like situations where governments who I have no faith in at all are making decisions based on factors about my family and in a way micro managing everything … I’m fairly sure the likes of Boris Johnson when he was in power with his rules for the masses and rules for himself and his cronies would do what’s best for his family and would use assisted dying if he thought best option

[dsr]

I personally don’t like situations where governments who I have no faith in at all are making decisions based on factors about my family and in a way micro managing everything … I’m fairly sure the likes of Boris Johnson when he was in power with his rules for the masses and rules for himself and his cronies would do what’s best for his family and would use assisted dying if he thought best option

That's the big scary thing for me. When elderly and not-very-well people start thinking about what's best for the family, they may and will (in their down moments) think it best for their family if they pop off and save the family the bother of looking after them, and also give them a bigger inheritance. Some families will encourage them in this thinking.

We need to think about the terminally ill who are dying in pain, but we also need to think about the not-terminally ill who are vulnerable to be "encouraged" to go before their time.

[Carlos the Great]

I am currently reading an alternative view to dying written by Dr Bruce Greyson who has studied : near death experiences over the past 40 years with patients … He is constantly probing his own findings with probable fathomable reasonings ,, in a way trying to discredit his own work . it’s a very compelling read even for a non believer like myself that possibly we are an energy that could continue after death even if it’s not a man in the sky with a white fluffy beard

[TomtheClaret]

So sorry to hear that Lowbank. I hope everyone in this awful situation finds peace.
I think with the right safeguards in place this has to be in place. Having seen both my father and father in law, die from cancer, its a option I'm sure both would have taken. Its not just life that is ultimately taken, but dignity in time leading up to death!

[Elbarad]

I should have given credit to the nutjobs who think it will end up like Logan's Run, fair point

Well he could have said it was going to end up like Soylent Green. Would even fit in with the Climate concerns.

[boatshed bill]

Like the dignatas clinics that started by assisting the terminally ill to die who are now assisting 29 year olds with mild depression and anxiety to end their lives. Next it will be those who have very minor ailments. Everything snowballs, just look at the equality act. A very well meaning piece of legislation thats snowballed into us all having no gender and being able to identify as a carrot.

I believe anyone should have the right to end their life at any time, and in a dignified manner.

[what_no_pies]

We describe it as being the humane thing to do when it's any other living creature.

[AlargeClaret]

As long as the illness is “ physical” and terminal and the patient completely able to make that decision it’s hard to argue against it ( with strict “ policing “) Is there a man alive who hasn’t had a close friend , family member etc go through hell, pain and suffering as their lives ebbed away . End of life care can be almost beyond horrific ( through nobody’s fault )

A 70 yr old can marry a kid with a full school yr left
We can sign up for the army at 17
We can identify as a dog
Blokes with a hairy arse and a big knob can put a frock on legally be a woman .

Yet ending your own life when ( for eg) you’re riddled with cancer, bedridden or screaming in agony begging to die … is illegal.. Defy’s belief .

[Carlos the Great]

As long as the illness is “ physical” and terminal and the patient completely able to make that decision it’s hard to argue against it ( with strict “ policing “) Is there a man alive who hasn’t had a close friend , family member etc go through hell, pain and suffering as their lives ebbed away . End of life care can be almost beyond horrific ( through nobody’s fault )

A 70 yr old can marry a kid with a full school yr left
We can sign up for the army at 17
We can identify as a dog
Blokes with a hairy arse and a big knob can put a frock on legally be a woman .

Yet ending your own life when ( for eg) you’re riddled with cancer, bedridden or screaming in agony begging to die … is illegal.. Defy’s belief .

When you put it like that ,,, it’s hard to argue with

[Claretforever]

I am definitely in favour for those who are terminal or where their life has been altered so much by unfortunate events. I’ve seen too many people close to me die of cancer now, and those final days and few weeks are the hardest to see, let alone go through, I’m sure. They often just want to end it easily.

So I don’t see it as shortening life like I’ve seen some people mention before, usually religious people, I see it as shortening death.

[claret59]

So what we are advocating here in the majority of opinion is not a National Health Service but a National Death Service. Would all those in favour of Assisted Dying think the same if it was renamed Assisted Killing or State Sanctioned Killing ? Like many. others I have seen one of my parents in great discomfort and pain at the end of her life and it crossed my mind that I could end it for her with a NHS pillow pressed hard against her face for just a couple of minutes. Kill my own Mother? The thought was too horrible to contemplate and neither could I expect anyone else to do it for me.
I was reading in the paper how a man horribly stabbed to death with multiple knife wounds his former girlfriend and her new boyfriend. Was he sentenced to death too ? Of course not. We are too civilised a country to allow such a thing. He lives on but we are taking it upon ourselves to adopt a culture of death for the innocent but exclude murderers , rapists et al.
I remember the so called @Liverpool Pathway and 'Do not resuscitate' as being akin to assisted dying. ' These soon fell into disrepute despite the best intentions with patients being starved to death and dehydrated to death.

[Tufty]

My Dad said he'd shoot himself before going into a care home. He went into a care home. He lost the ability to walk and go to the toilet by himself. His day involved being dressed then wheeled to a window for 8 hours. On a visit I asked him if I had a pill that you could take to end all this would you take it. He shrugged his shoulders and said..."Well, no one wants to die ". He was 92.

You'd be surprised how the bar can be continually lowered.

[Carlos the Great]

The bar being lowered in the pecking order is one thing but being in so much pain that life is hanging on by a thread and distressing to other family members to see is another

[Claretforever]

So what we are advocating here in the majority of opinion is not a National Health Service but a National Death Service. Would all those in favour of Assisted Dying think the same if it was renamed Assisted Killing or State Sanctioned Killing ? Like many. others I have seen one of my parents in great discomfort and pain at the end of her life and it crossed my mind that I could end it for her with a NHS pillow pressed hard against her face for just a couple of minutes. Kill my own Mother? The thought was too horrible to contemplate and neither could I expect anyone else to do it for me.
I was reading in the paper how a man horribly stabbed to death with multiple knife wounds his former girlfriend and her new boyfriend. Was he sentenced to death too ? Of course not. We are too civilised a country to allow such a thing. He lives on but we are taking it upon ourselves to adopt a culture of death for the innocent but exclude murderers , rapists et al.
I remember the so called @Liverpool Pathway and 'Do not resuscitate' as being akin to assisted dying. ' These soon fell into disrepute despite the best intentions with patients being starved to death and dehydrated to death.

If you don’t believe the Liverpool Pathway is still happening then you’re not watching closely enough!

It is absolutely still happening in all but name I’d say. I’ve been there with three family members in recent years where we’ve had to get quite angry to get water and those cylindrical swabs so that we can hydrate them, and the change when they got just water was remarkable, adding days to their life.

Call it assisted killing all you want for me, my stance is the same, especially so when they are of sound mind when making the decision.

[Lowbankclaret]

So what we are advocating here in the majority of opinion is not a National Health Service but a National Death Service. Would all those in favour of Assisted Dying think the same if it was renamed Assisted Killing or State Sanctioned Killing ? Like many. others I have seen one of my parents in great discomfort and pain at the end of her life and it crossed my mind that I could end it for her with a NHS pillow pressed hard against her face for just a couple of minutes. Kill my own Mother? The thought was too horrible to contemplate and neither could I expect anyone else to do it for me.
I was reading in the paper how a man horribly stabbed to death with multiple knife wounds his former girlfriend and her new boyfriend. Was he sentenced to death too ? Of course not. We are too civilised a country to allow such a thing. He lives on but we are taking it upon ourselves to adopt a culture of death for the innocent but exclude murderers , rapists et al.
I remember the so called @Liverpool Pathway and 'Do not resuscitate' as being akin to assisted dying. ' These soon fell into disrepute despite the best intentions with patients being starved to death and dehydrated to death.

Just saying, I did ask how the carers would know my mum has a DNR in place.
Reply was they don’t, they only need to remember the 3 that don’t.

[Lowbankclaret]

So sorry to hear that Lowbank. I hope everyone in this awful situation finds peace.
I think with the right safeguards in place this has to be in place. Having seen both my father and father in law, die from cancer, its a option I'm sure both would have taken. Its not just life that is ultimately taken, but dignity in time leading up to death!

Thank you.

[dsr]

This is really two different types of scenario. One, someone in the last few days of life and suffering badly; two, someone who may have a year, two years, ten years, even fifty years to live. The first scenario shouldn't be used to justify the second.

[ClaretDiver]

Just saying, I did ask how the carers would know my mum has a DNR in place.
Reply was they don’t, they only need to remember the 3 that don’t.

So sorry to hear of your situation Lowbank.

DNAR’s are a big part of my job in transporting patients to and from appointments, care homes etc. we have to be very alert to the fact and ask whether the patient has a DNAR in place and it usually handed to us in a yellow envelope. It is usually on our notes that there is one in place. In these situations (and I have been in one) if a patient goes into cardiac arrest etc then we have to let them die, horrible….

Like many on here I do feel there is a place for assisted dying BUT it must come with many caveats

[Lowbankclaret]

Went to see Mum today.
She has cellulitis and is on antibiotics.
Currently bed bound.
Opening statement when I went in.
“I am fing fed up with this , I would just rather be dead”
Then added “ why cannot just have cancer to finish me off.”

Now I think I am strong person, but I did have a minute when I got back to my car and few tears.
The care she gets is 5 star, but she has had enough and it’s only going to get worse, with no options for her.


Mentally she is as sharpe as ever, went up on Sunday with daughter and BF. They are in final year of uni. Even struggling to talk she was telling BF why page 3 para 2 he made it so difficult for the marker to give him marks as he waffled.
That’s what makes it so difficult, still as sharp as she ever was.

[johnnyjones]

Having watched a couple family members go through the final stages of cancer with no chance of recovery, taking that last few weeks of pain away for everybody would have been a blessing

[Lowbankclaret]

Like the dignatas clinics that started by assisting the terminally ill to die who are now assisting 29 year olds with mild depression and anxiety to end their lives. Next it will be those who have very minor ailments. Everything snowballs, just look at the equality act. A very well meaning piece of legislation thats snowballed into us all having no gender and being able to identify as a carrot.

Having helped my Mum fill in the application, dignitas do not just let you book in next Thursday to check out.
They check your medication and if they think it can be adjusted and your quality of life will improve. They send you home, hence wasting about £6000. You have to pay up front.

There are several hoops to jump through, and to be fair my Mum left it too late. She could not get there now.

[Lowbankclaret]

Having watched a couple family members go through the final stages of cancer with no chance of recovery, taking that last few weeks of pain away for everybody would have been a blessing

My step dad the same, I remember the undertaker saying to my Mum should we say died peacefully surrounded by family. She declined saying he died in agony.

[mdd2]

An appropriately applied end of life pathway should offer those at the end of life a good death
No one put on that pathway who is not going to die will die on an end of life pathway. Those on the pathway who rally can be taken off it too