Muric - Surely has to start on Sunday ?

[Jamesy]

It's never a good idea to start a sentence 'Andy Townsend, Dean Saunders', but even so, I think most Burnley fans would agree that Trafford isn't up to scratch, and the same can be levelled against almost all of our players.

Why not? Two established former pros who have played at the highest level? They wouldn’t be talking football on the radio if they didn’t know their subject matter.
There is definitely an agenda on here around Talksport.

[Rileybobs]

Why not? Two established former pros who have played at the highest level? They wouldn’t be talking football on the radio if they didn’t know their subject matter.
There is definitely an agenda on here around Talksport.

Dean Saunders is an absolutely awful pundit, like seriously dreadful. No agenda around TalkSport, but the quality of output is quite mixed - including certain presenters making deliberately outrageous statements in order to get the public to phone in.

In any case, Kompany is also an established former pro who has played at the highest level.

[Nori1958]

Why not? Two established former pros who have played at the highest level? They wouldn’t be talking football on the radio if they didn’t know their subject matter.
There is definitely an agenda on here around Talksport.

Paul Merson, sky, thick as, but has made a living out of being a pundit.

[Jamesy]

Paul Merson, sky, thick as, but has made a living out of being a pundit.

I think your mission on this board is just to argue for arguing sake? You asked a poster earlier to name instances of where Trafford has been criticised in the media. Other people named critics of his.
Then, you use an example of someone I didn’t even mention? Just one person to support your futile arguing to defend Trafford.
You may as well do what infant school children do to pretend something isn’t really happening. Cup your ears tightly, shut your eyes tight, scream as loud as you can and keep pretending James Trafford is a good goalkeeper and Vincent Kompany has been right to pick him all season.

[Nori1958]

I think your mission on this board is just to argue for arguing sake? You asked a poster earlier to name instances of where Trafford has been criticised in the media. Other people named critics of his.
Then, you use an example of someone I didn’t even mention? Just one person to support your futile arguing to defend Trafford.
You may as well do what infant school children do to pretend something isn’t really happening. Cup your ears tightly, shut your eyes tight, scream as loud as you can and keep pretending James Trafford is a good goalkeeper and Vincent Kompany has been right to pick him all season.

The poster said ex footballers knew the subject matter and were good pundits, just pointing out not all ex footballers are, nothing to do with trafford
I'll challange you the same as I have others, who all failed. Find ONE POST Where I've said Trafford is a good goalkeeper, or is better than Muric... You've just been misled hook line and sinker by others posting rubbish.

[Jamesy]

The poster said ex footballers knew the subject matter and were good pundits, just pointing out not all ex footballers are, nothing to do with trafford
I'll challange you the same as I have others, who all failed. Find ONE POST Where I've said Trafford is a good goalkeeper, or is better than Muric... You've just been misled hook line and sinker by others posting rubbish.

I will accept the first part of your post but I won’t waste my energy trawling through your posts. Another challenge of yours was when you asked people to provide evidence where pundits said Trafford was poor? You haven’t acknowledged that many pundits actually did say he was poor. You have simply used an example of a pundit who you feel is not very good to discredit the evidence right in front of you.
Please don’t insult my intelligence by claiming I have been misled by other critics of Trafford who you say are posting rubbish.
Like I said earlier, I just think you argue for arguments sake without anything substantial to back your arguments up with.

[Jamesy]

Dean Saunders is an absolutely awful pundit, like seriously dreadful. No agenda around TalkSport, but the quality of output is quite mixed - including certain presenters making deliberately outrageous statements in order to get the public to phone in.

In any case, Kompany is also an established former pro who has played at the highest level.

Yeah and Kompany might be on Talksport in years to come with Saunders. Two ex pros who played at highest level and another thing in common….. failed football managers.

[taio]

Yeah and Kompany might be on Talksport in years to come with Saunders. Two ex pros who played at highest level and another thing in common….. failed football managers.

Futile argument

[Jamesy]

Futile argument

So is most of this thread.

[Nori1958]

I will accept the first part of your post but I won’t waste my energy trawling through your posts. Another challenge of yours was when you asked people to provide evidence where pundits said Trafford was poor? You haven’t acknowledged that many pundits actually did say he was poor. You have simply used an example of a pundit who you feel is not very good to discredit the evidence right in front of you.
Please don’t insult my intelligence by claiming I have been misled by other critics of Trafford who you say are posting rubbish.
Like I said earlier, I just think you argue for arguments sake without anything substantial to back your arguments up with.

I asked where I could see or hear those comments, what's wrong with that? I didn't say it wasn't said. I would have liked to have read an article.
I say others are posting rubbish when they say I support Trafford regardless, in that respect you have been misled, whether you like it or not.
I've explained why I exampled Merson... Nothing at all to do with Trafford, it was in response to the point ex footballers know what they are talking about.

Surely this board is for debate, just because people disagree with your points, doesn't mean it's an argument.

[jlup1980]

I've said this before, he lacks very basic qualities in a goalkeeper, thing's you learn and progress with early on, to have played even at u21 and league one level and still not have these basic elements of a goalkeeper is just crazy, and imo if he's not got them now he's not going to get them, a coach can help a player /goalkeeper progress but not if the basics are not there at this stage, yes as has been said many times Trafford is a decent shot stopper, but that's what he's there for. It's the first thing a keeper needs, but there's lot's more to being a goalkeeper, especially in arguably the best league in the world. So I agree will be the most disastrous and expensive signing at the club. However, hope I'm wrong and makes it for the sake of the club, and on a personal level.

He's an advert for one of the major flaws in the "Pep" style of football. In the under-age leagues goalkeepers won't be up against any teams that put real physical pressure on them anymore. It's all about keeping the ball on the floor and scoring the perfect goal. Unfortunately that leaves a huge gap in the development of goalkeepers. It's the opposite argument we used to have with Nick Pope. He was a terrific, old-fashioned goalkeeper. It didn't matter that he couldn't play out from the back. First and foremost you need to be a goalkeeper. If you can use your feet as well, that's a bonus. You need to be strong enough to hold your own and Trafford simply isn't yet... and we don't have 5 years to wait until he is!

[Guller Bull]

Surely this board is for debate, just because people disagree with your points, doesn't mean it's an argument.

I think this is part of the problem is that people see this board (and many others) as a place of debate, rather than a place of conversation, a place of information or fun. It's become about who can debate the longest and most vociferously rather than who can create conversation and human links,

[Tinribs]

Think if Trafford is on team sheet when announced at 12 tommorow,might just save my petrol and watch at home .never felt this way before but it’s becoming tedious now turning up and watching same players making sane mistakes game after game and yet their place in the team seems untouchable

[NL Claret]

Muric wasn't directly responsible for the Spurs goal though, Amdouni should have looked after the ball, instead he got caught napping again. Personally I want Muric back in the starting XI to take the pressure off JT as much as anything else.

We had just got away with one after a fast break from our corner, sensible and switched on keeper drops on the ball , takes his time to allow team to get their shape, especially when late in the game. Unfortunately after throwing out a very risk ball Muric next touch is to pick the ball out of the net.

[warksclaret]

There is something seriously wrong if a team that has gained just 13 points in 26 games and concedes 58 goals does not give their No 2 GK a short run. Bear in mind a number of goals have been down to indecisive goal keeping, along with some memorable gashes. I appreciate Trafford has made a number of saves for us but any keeper from the top three divisions, having been on the receiving end of a colossal amount of goal attempts against him during those 26 games, would also have made a good number of saves

He is a young man and should have been taken out of the firing line some time ago. By all means bring him back if Muric disappoints during a short run, but don't destroy Traffords confidence. For all of VK's brilliance last season there are some very obvious shortcomings in his management style that are really being amplified right now. He needs friends not enemies right now and is not helping himself

[Nori1958]

There is something seriously wrong if a team that has gained just 13 points in 26 games and concedes 58 goals does not give their No 2 GK a short run. Bear in mind a number of goals have been down to indecisive goal keeping, along with some memorable gashes. I appreciate Trafford has made a number of saves for us but any keeper from the top three divisions, having been on the receiving end of a colossal amount of goal attempts against him during those 26 games, would also have made a good number of saves

He is a young man and should have been taken out of the firing line some time ago. By all means bring him back if Muric disappoints during a short run, but don't destroy Traffords confidence. For all of VK's brilliance last season there are some very obvious shortcomings in his management style that are really being amplified right now. He needs friends not enemies right now and is not helping himself

This isn't praise for Trafford before anyone starts.
But on the confidence point... The coaching staff will know far better than us what his personality is like

Perhaps he's a very confident person, most goalkeepers are, and this season is making him stronger rather than draining his confidence?

[Carlos the Great]

I asked where I could see or hear those comments, what's wrong with that? I didn't say it wasn't said. I would have liked to have read an article.
I say others are posting rubbish when they say I support Trafford regardless, in that respect you have been misled, whether you like it or not.
I've explained why I exampled Merson... Nothing at all to do with Trafford, it was in response to the point ex footballers know what they are talking about.

Surely this board is for debate, just because people disagree with your points, doesn't mean it's an argument.

I suggest that after tomorrows game tune into Talk Sport and let’s listen to what people are saying … I’m not wanting Trafford to be hung out to dry but that’s VK fault for picking him every week … let’s hope he has a fantastic game but I’ve seen enough all season to know he is a weak link in this team and stifles play with his poor distribution ..

[Nori1958]

I suggest that after tomorrows game tune into Talk Sport and let’s listen to what people are saying … I’m not wanting Trafford to be hung out to dry but that’s VK fault for picking him every week … let’s hope he has a fantastic game but I’ve seen enough all season to know he is a weak link in this team and stifles play with his poor distribution ..

You're already suggesting we are losing tomorrow, but win or lose I won't be tuning into talksport, it'll be all about the derby

[Carlos the Great]

You're already suggesting we are losing tomorrow, but win or lose I won't be tuning into talksport, it'll be all about the derby

I’m hoping we will win tomorrow even though it will make little impact on our final position ,, Bournemouth like ourselves are on a poor run so it will be interesting to see how we fare ,, remember our championship team murdered Bournemouth last season in the cup ! ,,

[Blue Skies]

People who went to Genk and the Real Betis friendly called Trafford out there. We have gone into this this with JT in goal and it has backfired massively. We are better than 13 points but the confidence of the back 4 and the rest is down to VK not seeing what everyone else can. Embarrassing at best, stupid at worst.

[CoolClaret]

We had just got away with one after a fast break from our corner, sensible and switched on keeper drops on the ball , takes his time to allow team to get their shape, especially when late in the game. Unfortunately after throwing out a very risk ball Muric next touch is to pick the ball out of the net.

A young lad himself that's still learning, on another day we maybe go up the other end and score. Has that vision and impetus to make the team tick though, something Traff definitely doesn't have.

[boatshed bill]

Nori you know it’s damned near impossible to find old clips of what pundits have said especially in away games because most of the time they are foreign streams ,but surely you must have seen some of the TV pundits scratching their heads for VK continually picking him .

I don't think I've ever seen a pundit scratch his head.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

We had just got away with one after a fast break from our corner, sensible and switched on keeper drops on the ball , takes his time to allow team to get their shape, especially when late in the game. Unfortunately after throwing out a very risk ball Muric next touch is to pick the ball out of the net.

In all fairness though, it is clear VK has told the GKs to play like that, to start a quick counter. Amdouni failed to control an accurate ball.

[NL Claret]

A young lad himself that's still learning, on another day we maybe go up the other end and score. Has that vision and impetus to make the team tick though, something Traff definitely doesn't have.

Would Muric with his vision and impetus (based on a season in the championship including a game when he was subbed at HT and looked like he was having a panic attack in the 2nd half at Boro) have had made this sub standard PL team tick?

The answer is probably no.

For me, the fault comes in recruitment, if Muric wasn’t to be first choice , an experienced GK surely must have been able to be sourced for however much was spent on Trafford. Trafford seems to be getting full force for very poor all around the pitch recruitment. VK and the recruitment team must not have noticed that our previous PL success has happened with centre halves like Mee and Tarky, GKs like Pope and Heaton and a CF who will get you 10 a season like a Chris Wood.

[NL Claret]

In all fairness though, it is clear VK has told the GKs to play like that, to start a quick counter. Amdouni failed to control an accurate ball.

It’s not that clear to me, if it is though, VK the problem then? High risk tactics, experienced GK wouldn’t start a counter when most of team are out of position. Muric didn’t read the situation, Porro did. Hospital ball to Amdouni, I’m getting the feeling you don’t like Amdouni but you like Muric ? Pin the blame on Amdouni.

[CoolClaret]

Would Muric with his vision and impetus (based on a season in the championship including a game when he was subbed at HT and looked like he was having a panic attack in the 2nd half at Boro) have had made this sub standard PL team tick?

The answer is probably no.

For me, the fault comes in recruitment, if Muric wasn’t to be first choice , an experienced GK surely must have been able to be sourced for however much was spent on Trafford. Trafford seems to be getting full force for very poor all around the pitch recruitment. VK and the recruitment team must not have noticed that our previous PL success has happened with centre halves like Mee and Tarky, GKs like Pope and Heaton and a CF who will get you 10 a season like a Chris Wood.

What a strange question - no idea what you're on about panic attack? We won that game at Boro?
He was subbed when he was ill - not sure how many times that needs to be refuted though.

Thought we played well at Spurs and had the better chances. Posted numerous times but it's like watching two different teams for me.

[boatshed bill]

What a strange question - no idea what you're on about panic attack? We won that game at Boro?
He was subbed when he was ill - not sure how many times that needs to be refuted though.

Ill or lost his bottle? I reckon VK covered for him by saying he was ill.

[NL Claret]

What a strange question - no idea what you're on about panic attack? We won that game at Boro?
He was subbed when he was ill - not sure how many times that needs to be refuted though.

Thought we played well at Spurs and had the better chances. Posted numerous times but it's like watching two different teams for me.

Not strange at all, Muric got loads of stick on here for been fragile yet now his stock is rising. Perhaps Muric is another player who gets better the longer he doesn’t play?

Correct , we won at Boro however you seem to be forgetting that in the 2nd half he was clutching his chest and looked like he was going to throw up.

We played well at Spurs? Almost fell asleep in the first half.

[CoolClaret]

Not strange at all, Muric got loads of stick on here for been fragile yet now his stock is rising. Perhaps Muric is another player who gets better the longer he doesn’t play?

Correct , we won at Boro however you seem to be forgetting that in the 2nd half he was clutching his chest and looked like he was going to throw up.

We played well at Spurs? Almost fell asleep in the first half.

Not really - had some shaky moments early on no doubt then went from strength to strength. Integral part of our team and came up with some really big saves in big moments for us.

No idea what you're trying to get at that he was clutching his chest.

[CoolClaret]

Ill or lost his bottle? I reckon VK covered for him by saying he was ill.

Must be why he kept playing him every game after then eh

[mdd2]

Vk clearly sees something we all don’t. It’s bizarre that he keeps picking this league 1 kid over muric. Muric and benson start Sunday and he’s learning, if they don’t he’s clearly too stubborn to be a top level manager.

[NL Claret]

Not really - had some shaky moments early on no doubt then went from strength to strength. Integral part of our team and came up with some really big saves in big moments for us.

No idea what you're trying to get at that he was clutching his chest.

“Muric was holding his chest earlier too. Now coughing his guts upnand holding his chest again. Hope he is okay.“

“Muric is having an absolute stinker tonight“



Here’s quotes from off here during the Boro game, what I’m trying to get at is…….I don’t think Muric is as good as he is getting made out to be, I don’t think he would cope in the PL.

[Jamesy]

“Muric was holding his chest earlier too. Now coughing his guts upnand holding his chest again. Hope he is okay.“

“Muric is having an absolute stinker tonight“



Here’s quotes from off here during the Boro game, what I’m trying to get at is…….I don’t think Muric is as good as he is getting made out to be, I don’t think he would cope in the PL.

It doesn’t matter whether you or I, or the world and his wife think he would cope in the Premier League. He isn’t going to get a chance, so it’s irrelevant really.

[CoolClaret]

“Muric was holding his chest earlier too. Now coughing his guts upnand holding his chest again. Hope he is okay.“

“Muric is having an absolute stinker tonight“



Here’s quotes from off here during the Boro game, what I’m trying to get at is…….I don’t think Muric is as good as he is getting made out to be, I don’t think he would cope in the PL.

No idea what you're trying to get at. Bloke is potentially ill in a crunch game we won and that means he isn't good enough?

Strange.

I think he's a massive talent that was going from strength to strength.

[NL Claret]

It doesn’t matter whether you or I, or the world and his wife think he would cope in the Premier League. He isn’t going to get a chance, so it’s irrelevant really.

99% of the posts on here are irrelevant really

[Jamesy]

99% of the posts on here are irrelevant really

You are wrong. 100% are irrelevant. In fact there was no point even posting on this thread because the stubborn one with the big ego isn’t going to deviate from his bold mission to relegation project.

[boatshed bill]

Must be why he kept playing him every game after then eh

No, it will be because we had no-one better.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

It’s not that clear to me, if it is though, VK the problem then? High risk tactics, experienced GK wouldn’t start a counter when most of team are out of position. Muric didn’t read the situation, Porro did. Hospital ball to Amdouni, I’m getting the feeling you don’t like Amdouni but you like Muric ? Pin the blame on Amdouni.

VK is part of the problems we are having this season most definitely, we aren't learning as a team and the manager is part of that.

I never said Muric was an experienced GK or even a perfect GK, he makes mistakes just like every other player, I just think that:

A) Amdouni could and should have dealt with that ball.
B) If it was Muric's fault, then a mistake made months ago is a weird reason not to select a player, especially when the player selected ahead of him had made worse mistakes between then and now.
C) JT needs rotating out of the team for his own long-term development. I genuinely think he will develop into a great GK.

By your own argument though you must not like Muric, since you're pinning the blame on him.

[dougcollins]

Saunders is on a level with Le Tissier for me.

[NL Claret]

VK is part of the problems we are having this season most definitely, we aren't learning as a team and the manager is part of that.

I never said Muric was an experienced GK or even a perfect GK, he makes mistakes just like every other player, I just think that:

A) Amdouni could and should have dealt with that ball.
B) If it was Muric's fault, then a mistake made months ago is a weird reason not to select a player, especially when the player selected ahead of him had made worse mistakes between then and now.
C) JT needs rotating out of the team for his own long-term development. I genuinely think he will develop into a great GK.

By your own argument though you must not like Muric, since you're pinning the blame on him.

I don’t like or dislike players, don’t have my favourites, I think what I’m trying to say that this current shambles of a team would benefit much if Muric was in goal

[Vim Fuego]

I'm prepared to up the stakes on previous discussion - I read that Elton Welsby was baffled

Seems like Muric won't start tomorrow. The door has been slammed shut

[Poulton-le-Claret]

I don’t like or dislike players, don’t have my favourites, I think what I’m trying to say that this current shambles of a team would benefit much if Muric was in goal

Well let's just hope whatever line up we have tomorrow wins!

[Carlos the Great]

We had just got away with one after a fast break from our corner, sensible and switched on keeper drops on the ball , takes his time to allow team to get their shape, especially when late in the game. Unfortunately after throwing out a very risk ball Muric next touch is to pick the ball out of the net.

I’ve watched it numerous times and I think Muric quick pass was right to his feet .. it wasn’t a suicide pass and was way out of the area .. if a player who cost 18 million can’t control a ball to his feet I think he needs changing … let’s be honest the spurs strike was a worldly as well .. it was a fantastic strike he won’t score a better goal than that

[BigJay]

Too late now, our seasons gone. Would have been better for Traffords development if Muric started the season as first choice and Trafford eased in, a bit like how Brighton have managed Verbruggen in. The polar opposite has happened and yet we're all scratching our heads wondering why Muric hasn't been given any chance and not knowing whether he is good enough for this level or not. Its not Traffords fault, its borderline managerial incompetence if, as many of us suspect, Trafford was brought in with guarantees of playing week in week out as No1. We will probably never know. As for today and the rest of the season, I suspect Trafford plays every game, barring injury.

[Carlos the Great]

I’m not sure how you can guarantee a goalkeeper that he will play every week ,, especially one who has only played in division 1 ,, if your good enough you will start is the only guarantee he would have got from me

[burnleymik]

Going off yesterday's presser VK isn't going to drop the young players going through the bad patches as he thinks it will teach them hard lessons and help them in the future. The BXP article specifically mentioned Trafford, Amdouni and Odobert.

I understand his point, but you also have to make it clear that there is competition for places. Under performing players need to be dropped, for the sake of the whole squad. What message does it send to those not currently in the first eleven?

Given that info I don't expect any unforced changes today and for me that is a big mistake if he makes it.

[taio]

If we get beat today without any changes, I fear there will be a significantly different tone at the Turf today, and Kompany would be leaving himself wide open.

[NL Claret]

I’ve watched it numerous times and I think Muric quick pass was right to his feet .. it wasn’t a suicide pass and was way out of the area .. if a player who cost 18 million can’t control a ball to his feet I think he needs changing … let’s be honest the spurs strike was a worldly as well .. it was a fantastic strike he won’t score a better goal than that

You've watched numerous.times and only think it was right to his feet? Amdouni 's transfer fee gone up as well? What is it with utc and transfer fees?

You are not getting it about the spurs goal, never mind.

[Carlos the Great]

You've watched numerous.times and only think it was right to his feet? Amdouni 's transfer fee gone up as well? What is it with utc and transfer fees?

You are not getting it about the spurs goal, never mind.

I’ve just watched the highlights again of that game … and what is clearly apparent is we looked a premier league team in that game creating problems all over the pitch for a very good spurs team Compare that with what we are watching now is massively different maybe due to a loss of confidence

[CoolClaret]

I’ve just watched the highlights again of that game … and what is clearly apparent is we looked a premier league team in that game creating problems all over the pitch for a very good spurs team Compare that with what we are watching now is massively different maybe due to a loss of confidence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud_61KGbDEk

Cracking save by our best goalkeeper at 00:56 as well

If you look on SofaScore/FOTmob at the players' average positions in that game vs the league games you'll notice that the players are a lot more spread out over the pitch.

Wonder why