Mud analytics

[123EasyasBFC]

The situation wouldn’t sit right with me whether we were doing well or not.

Yep course it wouldn’t, nobody would bat an eye lid if we were comfortable

[Rileybobs]

Yep course it wouldn’t, nobody would bat an eye lid if we were comfortable

If you choose not to believe me then that’s up to you.

[Casper2]

‘Some are saying’ without anything to back it up.

It’s fair to mention league position because as I have just said there would be no talk about any of this if things were going well

How do you know this ?

[Blondeclaret]

I would have thought everyone should have concerns.

Everyone needs to.

[123EasyasBFC]

How do you know this ?

How do I know what?

[Casper2]

How do I know what?

It’s fair to mention league position because as I have just said there would be no talk about any of this if things were going well

You are just making things up

[agreenwood]

So much speculation, so few facts.

[123EasyasBFC]

It’s fair to mention league position because as I have just said there would be no talk about any of this if things were going well

You are just making things up

People are making up that we are using kompanys company without any concrete knowledge and then making up that it’s only been used this season.

As Chester mentioned he brought it up at the beginning on the season and nobody cared then but suddenly now when people don’t have anything else to moan about it’s being brought up.

There wasn’t a thread about it day after Luton away when we won early on in the season, this forum is 90% people making sh*te up

[FCBurnley]

I think VK should explain his part in MUD and what deal if any they have with our club ? I once had a manager I was interviewing ask me for a commission on player sales !!! Needless to say I said no and he didn’t get the job. I have also seen ex England internationals paid significant signing on fees ( 50k in cash 40 years ago ) so don’t think bad stuff doesn’t happen

[Casper2]

People are making up that we are using kompanys company without any concrete knowledge and then making up that it’s only been used this season.

As Chester mentioned he brought it up at the beginning on the season and nobody cared then but suddenly now when people don’t have anything else to moan about it’s being brought up.

There wasn’t a thread about it day after Luton away when we won early on in the season, this forum is 90% people making sh*te up

You included

[123EasyasBFC]

You included

My point has been proven that nobody hasn’t mentioned it until now, Lee Mooney was heavily involved last summer but nobody mentioned it then when we signed benson, zaroury and all the rest but now it’s a problem

[Rileybobs]

My point has been proven that nobody hasn’t mentioned it until now, Lee Mooney was heavily involved last summer but nobody mentioned it then when we signed benson, zaroury and all the rest but now it’s a problem

I’ve mentioned it on here before. I’ve also had spoken conversations about it.

[Casper2]

My point has been proven that nobody hasn’t mentioned it until now, Lee Mooney was heavily involved last summer but nobody mentioned it then when we signed benson, zaroury and all the rest but now it’s a problem

So your point hasn’t been proven and you are making things up , regardless of what you think , questions need answering.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

How do you know it’s a method at all? Nevermind, our soul method?

It’ll all come out in the wash

[boyyanno]

People are making up that we are using kompanys company without any concrete knowledge and then making up that it’s only been used this season.

As Chester mentioned he brought it up at the beginning on the season and nobody cared then but suddenly now when people don’t have anything else to moan about it’s being brought up.

There wasn’t a thread about it day after Luton away when we won early on in the season, this forum is 90% people making sh*te up

I think Chester said very few cared- not nobody. It's been mentioned on here before and I showed some concern as did some others. Ultimately its not like loads of people are showing concern now either, I think it's fair to say that the kind of people who do care about this will care no matter how the club is performing which is as it should be.

It doesn't invalidate anything just because it's been brought up while we are doing badly anyway does it? So why do you keep hiding behind that?

[123EasyasBFC]

So your point hasn’t been proven and you are making things up , regardless of what you think , questions need answering.

Questions don’t need answering at all

[NewClaret]

But this is a perfect example of how we've got it wrong isn't it?

You're lauding our business over Luton and yet they're doing better than us and arguably recruited better too. Why not ask who would you rather watch this season, Barkley and Townsend or Tresor and Amdouni?

There's a really bad mindset in modern football that flashy players are the best. It's mental when you look at the season we are currently having and then compare it to the workmanlike stuff under Dyche. We used to be substance over style but it feels like a lot only care about style over substance now. Ironically we're failing at both.

We’ve got it wrong, so far, yes.

My point is, if you don’t focus on the here and now, and you accept that this season has been ultimately unsuccessful for all three promoted teams, would you rather be:

- us, using data analytics to identify some really great young talent (even though some have been loans); or

- Sheffield/Luton, whose transfer strategy I don’t know a lot about but let’s say it’s more traditional and about signing ‘old pros’

???

Said a few times what a massive signing Barkley would’ve been for us and I’d definitely have preferred to watch him over Tresor/Amdouni. Berge is a closer call though who I think has been v good for us.

I am not arguing that we want a whole team of style over substance, not at all, we’ve obviously got that balance very wrong this year… but I’d massively prefer our recruitment strategy to that of the other two down with us so I don’t care at all whether we’re using MUD or not.

[123EasyasBFC]

I’ve mentioned it on here before. I’ve also had spoken conversations about it.

Spoken conversations yeah, bothered you last season did it?

[Blondeclaret]

People are making up that we are using kompanys company without any concrete knowledge and then making up that it’s only been used this season.

As Chester mentioned he brought it up at the beginning on the season and nobody cared then but suddenly now when people don’t have anything else to moan about it’s being brought up.

There wasn’t a thread about it day after Luton away when we won early on in the season, this forum is 90% people making sh*te up

The club previously used ISF which is a far superior system to Mud and is used by the majority of higher league clubs. It changed over to Mud Analytics in approximately August 2023.

[NewClaret]

It’ll all come out in the wash

According to CP, nothing to suggest they’re profiting in their recent accounts anyway. Let’s see what next year brings.

Bit of a pointless discussion when we neither know whether we use them at all or the terms if we do.

[CoolClaret]

I think Chester said very few cared- not nobody. It's been mentioned on here before and I showed some concern as did some others. Ultimately its not like loads of people are showing concern now either, I think it's fair to say that the kind of people who do care about this will care no matter how the club is performing which is as it should be.

It doesn't invalidate anything just because it's been brought up while we are doing badly anyway does it? So why do you keep hiding behind that?

I didn't see the initial report by CP - saw it much later on... but to steelman 123EasyasBFC'S point (and I mentioned this earlier in the season) then yes - even if we were doing well it'd be concerning; because we have so much tied in to one man that may go elsewhere, then what?

Seems very naive to me.

[Rileybobs]

Spoken conversations yeah, bothered you last season did it?

Yes, spoken conversation, like with my mouth, in the vicinity of another human’s ear. And yes, it bothered me as soon as I heard about it.

[Casper2]

Questions don’t need answering at all

Oh ok then , I forgot you were in charge.

[123EasyasBFC]

I think Chester said very few cared- not nobody. It's been mentioned on here before and I showed some concern as did some others. Ultimately its not like loads of people are showing concern now either, I think it's fair to say that the kind of people who do care about this will care no matter how the club is performing which is as it should be.

It doesn't invalidate anything just because it's been brought up while we are doing badly anyway does it? So why do you keep hiding behind that?

Who’s hiding behind anything, it’s all hearsay. The same guy Lee Mooney heavily involved last season and nobody cared about the way we recruited because the reason went right.
What is it you exactly care about? The is nothing whatsoever to show that kompany or his business has any financial gain for any of the signings made, caring about nothing and like I said earlier I’m sure it was first thing on your mind when we beat Luton or when we beat Fulham in December

[123EasyasBFC]

Yes, spoken conversation, like with my mouth, in the vicinity of another human’s ear. And yes, it bothered me as soon as I heard about it.

Course it did, you aren’t going to score any points you know

[boyyanno]

I didn't see the initial report by CP - saw it much later on... but to steelman 123EasyasBFC'S point (and I mentioned this earlier in the season) then yes - even if we were doing well it'd be concerning; because we have so much tied in to one man that may go elsewhere, then what?

Seems very naive to me.

I mean no disrespect to Chester here but if I remember rightly it was first brought up as part of finance discussions or somthing similar and I think it was easily missed as part of a wider discussion as opposed to people not caring. I think it's had one or two mentions since then but it's normally quickly shot down pretty quickly.

[blatherwickstattoos]

The club previously used ISF which is a far superior system to Mud and is used by the majority of higher league clubs. It changed over to Mud Analytics in approximately August 2023.

Now it’s getting interesting, worrying really. Can we sack kompanys company and still retain him as manager??

[CoolClaret]

I mean no disrespect to Chester here but if I remember rightly it was first brought up as part of finance discussions or somthing similar and I think it was easily missed as part of a wider discussion as opposed to people not caring. I think it's had one or two mentions since then but it's normally quickly shot down pretty quickly.

Precisely,

I missed it on there, I forgot which thread it was brought up on - presumably one about the recruitment 10 games or so into the season.

[CoolClaret]

Now it’s getting interesting, worrying really. Can we sack kompanys company and still retain him as manager??

Wouldn't go on at any other club imo.

I really do believe VK has got significant control that isn't afforded to other managers and the cynic in me suggests he got more upon signing his new deal.

[blatherwickstattoos]

Wouldn't go on at any other club imo.

I really do believe VK has got significant control that isn't afforded to other managers and the cynic in me suggests he got more upon signing his new deal.

The way the American contingent hung on every word he said in the mission to Burnley has me believe the same too.

[boyyanno]

Who’s hiding behind anything, it’s all hearsay. The same guy Lee Mooney heavily involved last season and nobody cared about the way we recruited because the reason went right.
What is it you exactly care about? The is nothing whatsoever to show that kompany or his business has any financial gain for any of the signings made, caring about nothing and like I said earlier I’m sure it was first thing on your mind when we beat Luton or when we beat Fulham in December

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about but you are a very confused individual.

I can't see anywhere where any of the people your engaging with has suggested anything nefarious about the connection, about the transfers, about Kompany- Can you please point this out?

I don't understand what problem you've got with someone saying they aren't comfortable about there being a conflict of interest?

Serious question but you know what one is don't you? You know it's not a good thing I assume?

[blatherwickstattoos]

So this mud recruitment agency had no dealings in the signings we made last season ??? But of all the signings from August 2023 , is there any proof of this ? Just so we can put to bed “we weren’t bothered when we were doing well” etc etc.

[123EasyasBFC]

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about but you are a very confused individual.

I can't see anywhere where any of the people your engaging with has suggested anything nefarious about the connection, about the transfers, about Kompany- Can you please point this out?

I don't understand what problem you've got with someone saying they aren't comfortable about there being a conflict of interest?

Serious question but you know what one is don't you? You know it's not a good thing I assume?

Riley literally explained about a player signed using his analytics company playing more minutes to up their value by playing them into form which could have financial gain for kompany if sold.

People can say they aren’t comfortable, it’s just time timing of the concerns, it hasn’t been a running thread throughout the season about people’s concerns when they apparently heard it moved over in August, only bothers them now in march. No thread questioning it in January when the window was open.

[123EasyasBFC]

So this mud recruitment agency had no dealings in the signings we made last season ??? But of all the signings from August 2023 , is there any proof of this ? Just so we can put to bed “we weren’t bothered when we were doing well” etc etc.

All the signings from August 2023 hahaha, hardly think kompany needed to use his own business to sign players like Delcroix and Larsen that he has previously managed

[boyyanno]

Precisely,

I missed it on there, I forgot which thread it was brought up on - presumably one about the recruitment 10 games or so into the season.

Yeah just had a look back and it was first on the signings thread, then the KV (Belgium takeover) and then the normal takeover one. And not that it surprises me but quite a few people showed concerns, but unsurprisingly they were shouted down by RV and his merry men (including 123 easybfc above) saying anyone who showed concerns was not a proper fan and no one had mentioned it before.

So so much for 123easybfcs act

[123EasyasBFC]

So this mud recruitment agency had no dealings in the signings we made last season ??? But of all the signings from August 2023 , is there any proof of this ? Just so we can put to bed “we weren’t bothered when we were doing well” etc etc.

Lee Mooney and kompany at the club last season whatever system they used it was still the same people making the signings

[blatherwickstattoos]

All the signings from August 2023 hahaha, hardly think kompany needed to use his own business to sign players like Delcroix and Larsen that he has previously managed

I think you’re missing the point in this debate. No idea why you’re being so defensive about it all but I hope you prove me right and there’s absolutely no conflict of interest.

[boyyanno]

Riley literally explained about a player signed using his analytics company playing more minutes to up their value by playing them into form which could have financial gain for kompany if sold.

People can say they aren’t comfortable, it’s just time timing of the concerns, it hasn’t been a running thread throughout the season about people’s concerns when they apparently heard it moved over in August, only bothers them now in march. No thread questioning it in January when the window was open.

Riley gave you an example of why this conflict of interest exists- he didn't give you an example of what he thinks Kompany has done/is doing

[Rileybobs]

Riley literally explained about a player signed using his analytics company playing more minutes to up their value by playing them into form which could have financial gain for kompany if sold.

People can say they aren’t comfortable, it’s just time timing of the concerns, it hasn’t been a running thread throughout the season about people’s concerns when they apparently heard it moved over in August, only bothers them now in march. No thread questioning it in January when the window was open.

Except for this thread questioning it in January when the window was open.

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... &start=100

[123EasyasBFC]

Yeah just had a look back and it was first on the signings thread, then the KV (Belgium takeover) and then the normal takeover one. And not that it surprises me but quite a few people showed concerns, but unsurprisingly they were shouted down by RV and his merry men (including 123 easybfc above) saying anyone who showed concerns was not a proper fan and no one had mentioned it before.

So so much for 123easybfcs act

Can you show me where I shouted people down in the KV takeover thread, don’t throw shade on me without backing it up, I haven’t never ever commented on someone being a proper fan.

[blatherwickstattoos]

As for no previous thread… I found out about it today. This morning. So that’s why I’ve not started a thread before this. Hope that clears up your confusion about a few things .

[Rileybobs]

Riley literally explained about a player signed using his analytics company playing more minutes to up their value by playing them into form which could have financial gain for kompany if sold.

People can say they aren’t comfortable, it’s just time timing of the concerns, it hasn’t been a running thread throughout the season about people’s concerns when they apparently heard it moved over in August, only bothers them now in march. No thread questioning it in January when the window was open.

I didn’t say there was anything nefarious about the connection, I pointed out an obvious conflict of interest.

[CoolClaret]

As for no previous thread… I found out about it today. This morning. So that’s why I’ve not started a thread before this. Hope that clears up your confusion about a few things .

Exactly, it's hardly widespread.

Infact, it's the sort of thing if you mentioned it to the average fan they'd think you were spouting some sort of conspiratorial nonsense, because it does (at face value) sound it.

[123EasyasBFC]

Except for this thread questioning it in January when the window was open.

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... &start=100

That isn’t a thread about it? That’s a mini discussion on ‘tonight’s football thread’ you started on 30th Jan, didn’t concern you enough earlier on to mention it in a stand alone thread?

[123EasyasBFC]

Riley gave you an example of why this conflict of interest exists- he didn't give you an example of what he thinks Kompany has done/is doing

I didn’t say he thinks personally kompany is doing it but it still relates to transfers as you asked

[Rileybobs]

That isn’t a thread about it? That’s a mini discussion on ‘tonight’s football thread’ you started on 30th Jan, didn’t concern you enough earlier on to mention it in a stand alone thread?

So there was a thread in January when the transfer window was open where this was questioned. Cheers.

[blatherwickstattoos]

Time will tell I guess lads and lasses . Just found it a bit weird when I found out about it all. UTC

[123EasyasBFC]

I think you’re missing the point in this debate. No idea why you’re being so defensive about it all but I hope you prove me right and there’s absolutely no conflict of interest.

Regardless of the kompany being used it’s the same two people this season as last season, kompany and Mooney

[123EasyasBFC]

So there was a thread in January when the transfer window was open where this was questioned. Cheers.

Was there a thread created about mud analytics in January during the window where you raised your concerns?

[CrosspoolClarets]

Here’s a thought…

We’re going down. So are Sheffield United and barring any points deductions saving them, so are Luton.

Let’s assume they don’t use any data analysis in their recruitment.

I’m left wondering, as a fan, which of those three clubs would I be more excited about watching next year?

Burnley with an analytics system that’s brought us Foster, Benson, Zaroury, Tella, Maatsen, Koleosho, Odobert, Assingnon, Esteve, Beyer, etc, etc… or Luton & Sheffield United?

Theres not even a question in it for me.

You’re right, implying that the players we are getting from our analytics exceed that of others. It did last year, it probably did this year too (vs Championship clubs and the two we came up with). Money helps of course.

When I invest in companies I invest in people and study them carefully - the ones involved in Mud seem very good, Mooney etc. So I don’t see a problem. It is a partnership that is exciting and all top clubs have partnerships nowadays. I’d be far more concerned if it were an agency, that would be a clear conflict. This seems to be analytics which is fine.

Any errors this season aren’t the analytics - most are fine players, far better than Luton or Sheffield have I believe, and we will show it next season, though Luton have found some extra wins from somewhere. It was the judgement not to layer it alongside experience and not to prioritise other skillsets or other positions. That is on Kompany. Heck, when I think of the players we missed, most of them are wingers too - Bakayoko, Palmer, Lukebakio etc. No blame on Mud as far as I can see it. They’ll just say who the good players are and how they complement each other. As I’ve posted many times though, he deserves a 2nd chance after the huge joys of last season that we will remember for a lifetime.

As for him having 11 directorships (I think, looking on Companies House) I don’t see any evidence he isn’t putting the hours in at the Turf, quite the reverse, so nothing to see here either, and we are lucky to have him (whether having so much going on leads to mental fatigue and impaired judgement, well, that is a decision the club have to make - I don’t know how he does it, even with all the team of advisors he’ll have. The man must be a machine. I like him.)