Unpopular opinions

[superdimitri]

Admittedly we've been very poor but I do think if we were to replay each game results would be different and we have also been very unlucky, especially if you consider the inconsistencies of some decisions together with injuries.

I think Kompany gets criticism for not changing enough, but all good managers tend to stick with their own system. It was the same with Dyche. If we didn't get the injuries we did and we were able to develop consistent partnerships then things would also be different. A solid defence needs to see little change, not new players coming in and changing all the time.

I've also mentioned it before in a past thread but I also agree with Kompany in the sense that to stand a chance of staying up we did need a big rebuild. I don't buy the opinion that last years team would have done better this season. The gap is too large and the type of football we play means a higher pedigree is needed to stay up compared to our tenure under Dyche and Lutons style.

Sure, there's far more depth to each point. The policy of signing so many wingers is strange but I also know from last season that Kompany uses flair players as weapons to try and change games and the more we have of those the more options we have.

To end with a bang, I believe Trafford is a better keeper than Muric. Muric would have looked just as bad if not worse in goal this season.

I'm a firm supporter of Kompany and still think it will pay off in the long term. Like Vizeh has said he wants to see us as a club that keeps managers and gives them a chance. Not just another Leeds or Watford.

Does anyone else share these points or am in complete cloud-cooko-land?

[Vegas Claret]

I just think a lot of the new players have let him down, they haven't lived up to what they thought they would deliver. I'm genuinely really looking forward to next season though, the Championship is head and shoulders the best league about if you aren't owned by a Billionaire or a country

[CoolClaret]

The team is a disjointed mess with a total lack of belief and unity.

Edwards has Luton performing to their max ability; can you say the same about Vincent here?... because ultimately, that's what the job of the manager is.

[Nori1958]

The team is a disjointed mess with a total lack of belief and unity.

Edwards has Luton performing to their max ability; can you say the same about Vincent here?... because ultimately, that's what the job of the manager is.

If their max ability gets them one place above us, with probably the same end result come May, then they are not that much better, are they?

[Hibsclaret]

I agree with the op. Many fans wanted a change of style at the end of the Dyche era and playing a possession based game in the premier league with an inexperienced and regularly changed team is the reason we haven’t been good enough.

We now have a younger squad with the ability to improve. We lost a game on Saturday with 75% possession and have clearly improved throughout the season gradually. We have been poor in both boxes and I think this can be mitigated to an extent by the loss of our best striker and best defenders.

[dandeclaret]

If their max ability gets them one place above us, with probably the same end result come May, then they are not that much better, are they?

Team who finished 21 points behind Burnley, spent 20% of what Burnley did and currently have almost 50% more points this season, suggests one team is progressing and one is regressing? Does that matter?

Burnley have acquired talented individuals, Luton have improved their team.

[dandeclaret]

This point in needing a big rebuild and the team not being good enough….

Burnley finished 10 points clear of Sheff United and 21 points clear of Luton. Sheffield United lost their 2 best players, and didn’t really add that much…. They still have the same points as Burnley. Luton added to their team, but kept the core team broadly the same…. They’re 7 points or nearly 50% better than Burnley this season.

Remind me how that rebuild has taken the club forwards?

[Nori1958]

Team who finished 21 points behind Burnley, spent 20% of what Burnley did and currently have almost 50% more points this season, suggests one team is progressing and one is regressing? Does that matter?

Burnley have acquired talented individuals, Luton have improved their team.

I know who I'd back to be more successful next season, and it wouldn't be luton.

[Jakubclaret]

Team who finished 21 points behind Burnley, spent 20% of what Burnley did and currently have almost 50% more points this season, suggests one team is progressing and one is regressing? Does that matter?

Burnley have acquired talented individuals, Luton have improved their team.

I think that's overboard with talented individuals we've seen glimpses here & there without any real consistency & overall they have looked out of their depth that said times on their side & there's plenty of scope for improvement whether that materialises is another thing. Burnley have acquired potential promise.

[expoultryboy]

Partly agree with the op , last seasons squad definitely needed improving . The problem is that when a system isn't working , you change it and try something else ( 3 in midfield NOT 2 ) . This has been the problem with both Kompany and Dyche , both successful but stubborn.

[aggi]

I just think a lot of the new players have let him down, they haven't lived up to what they thought they would deliver. I'm genuinely really looking forward to next season though, the Championship is head and shoulders the best league about if you aren't owned by a Billionaire or a country

I think it's more a matter of Kompany has let the new players down. He's chopped and changed and generally fielded teams with minimal experience.

Rather than slowly bringing players in to a settled team he's tried to make all the changes at once with predictable results.

It doesn't look like he's learnt this yet though. We needed someone like Craig Dawson in that transfer window, not more of the same with Esteve.

[dandeclaret]

I know who I'd back to be more successful next season, and it wouldn't be luton.

And who would you have backed to be more successful this season?

[Jamesy]

I know who I'd back to be more successful next season, and it wouldn't be luton.
[/quote

You wouldn’t put your money on just yet though. Especially as Luton could be in a division above us at the start of next season?

[CoolClaret]

If their max ability gets them one place above us, with probably the same end result come May, then they are not that much better, are they?

They were never meant to be - that's the point.

They were in League One three years ago and play in a 11K capacity tinshed filled with a team (Barkley,Lokonga aside) of journeymen.

Luton will be using their premier league money to really invest in their long-term future, we've chosen to speculate ours.

Two remotely different situations.

One James Trafford probably gets full redevelopment of the Bob Lord / Cricketfield end - I know what'd be better for setting BFC up for the next 20-30 years

[Nori1958]

And who would you have backed to be more successful this season?

Burnley. Luton have been very fortunate with Ross Barkley, he's played more games than he has in any other season. Had they lost him for as many games as we have Foster, or had Foster had the run of games Barkley has it might have been a lot different

[Woodleyclaret]

Injuries to Koleosho,Foster,Taylor,Beyer and failure to play Benson, Cork, Zaroury and Jayrod have imo been all a major factor.

[Nori1958]

I probably would, if they were in the premier league I'd back them for relegation, and us for promotion from the championship, hence we would be more successful, in my opinion

[Clive 1960]

when you play in the big league you need a few experienced heads in the side we have to many young lad's who look like lost school boy's when we go behind, not there fault they were thrown in at the deep end..

[ElectroClaret]

Admittedly we've been very poor but I do think if we were to replay each game results would be different....

I really don't think they would, because the problem is he isn't learning from
the bad performances.

[Nori1958]

Injuries to Koleosho,Foster,Taylor,Beyer and failure to play Benson, Cork, Zaroury and Jayrod have imo been all a major factor.

I'd agree with the injuries being a major factor, those you've mention as not playing not so much.

[dandeclaret]

Burnley. Luton have been very fortunate with Ross Barkley, he's played more games than he has in any other season. Had they lost him for as many games as we have Foster, or had Foster had the run of games Barkley has it might have been a lot different

I cannot agree with the amount of impact you are putting down to good fortune. Burnley’s team was better last year, Burnley way outspent Luton…. But it’s Luton who have a team who look organised, work hard and have some belief in their ability.

[Swizzlestick]

Injuries to Koleosho,Foster,Taylor,Beyer and failure to play Benson, Cork, Zaroury and Jayrod have imo been all a major factor.

Worth pointing out that Hull benched Zaroury last night.

[Nori1958]

I cannot agree with the amount of impact you are putting down to good fortune. Burnley’s team was better last year, Burnley way outspent Luton…. But it’s Luton who have a team who look organised, work hard and have some belief in their ability.

Somebody, injury prone who suddenly plays more than he ever has, must be good fortune
A team losing their main striker for two long periods of time must be bad fortune.

Had those two scenarios been reversed the results would have been different

[Swizzlestick]

To be fair, Luton have been without their main defender and captain for a large part of the season after the pretty traumatic incident at Bournemouth. They’ve outperformed expectations, we…haven’t.

[Dark Cloud]

1. I don't want us to become a "sacking club" as it achieves absolutely nothing (see numerous examples, too many to mention!) and especially after what he did last season I'm ok sticking with Kompany and seeing where we are come the start of November.
2. As someone mentioned above just one player in the Craig Dawson, Ben Mee, Johnny Evans type mould could have made a massive difference and been worth every penny in signing on fee and very big wages. We need genuine experience at this level at the back and going out in January and getting Esteve who is yet another young hopeful was simply shifting the deck chairs on the Titanic.
3. Arguably VK's three best signings have barely played. Foster, Koleosho and Benson. Different reasons and different circumstances, but extremely unfortunate I feel.
4. The rest of VK's signings have been "punts" which have mainly failed at this level. Whether they will all stay and whether they'll then go and tear up the championship remains to be seen.
5. VK seems to have decided a long time ago that all players are equal when it comes to form and selection, but some players are more equal than others and to continue to select Trafford week after week after week regardless of form or the team's perilous position is one of the most baffling things I've ever seen at the Turf in all my years watching. I'd absolutely love an explanation.

[Im_not_Robbie_Blake]

Barkley and Townsend - could have had them both. But no, Tresor and Ramsey instead.
In other words, tried and tested experienced Premier League players rather than novices.
Burnley's huge error. Luton's sensible choice
Blimey

Is my opinion unpopular?

[Dark Cloud]

Barkley and Townsend - could have had them both. But no, Tresor and Ramsey instead.
In other words, tried and tested experienced Premier League players rather than novices.
Burnley's huge error. Luton's sensible choice
Blimey

Is my opinion unpopular?

You're right. I listed Dawson, Evans and Mee above just as examples of the kind of signings we needed, where I could easily have gone on and on with Milner, Barkley, Townsend etc, etc, etc. Townsend was at bloody Gawthorpe for 2 months and we STILL let him walk away which has proved to be absolutely criminal.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Barkley and Townsend - could have had them both. But no, Tresor and Ramsey instead.
In other words, tried and tested experienced Premier League players rather than novices.
Burnley's huge error. Luton's sensible choice
Blimey

Is my opinion unpopular?

Popular probably, full of hindsight 100%

Barkley since the start of 2017/18 (so 6 seasons) had featured in just over 70 Premier League games resulting in both Chelsea & Villa not wanting him. Then no other Premier League club wanted him so he went to play for Nice for a year. Then he signed for Luton.

We had enough people tell us we were wrong to take a chance on Drinkwater and that was a loan signing, had we signed Barkley and he had been as he was in the previous seasons where football seemed an after thought we would have been told had we not looked into his attitude.

We used to have people criticise Dyche for signing experienced players over youth least he maybe now getting some credit for what he did.

[Nori1958]

Barkley and Townsend - could have had them both. But no, Tresor and Ramsey instead.
In other words, tried and tested experienced Premier League players rather than novices.
Burnley's huge error. Luton's sensible choice
Blimey

Is my opinion unpopular?

Iam not sure Barkley was ever mentioned as an option for us, I don't think it would have been a popular signing at the time, Iam sure Drinkwater would have had a mention or two.

Has Townsend really been any better than what we have? I don't know his stats but he's never stood out in the few games I've seen.

[Jamesy]

1. I don't want us to become a "sacking club" as it achieves absolutely nothing (see numerous examples, too many to mention!) and especially after what he did last season I'm ok sticking with Kompany and seeing where we are come the start of November.
2. As someone mentioned above just one player in the Craig Dawson, Ben Mee, Johnny Evans type mould could have made a massive difference and been worth every penny in signing on fee and very big wages. We need genuine experience at this level at the back and going out in January and getting Esteve who is yet another young hopeful was simply shifting the deck chairs on the Titanic.
3. Arguably VK's three best signings have barely played. Foster, Koleosho and Benson. Different reasons and different circumstances, but extremely unfortunate I feel.
4. The rest of VK's signings have been "punts" which have mainly failed at this level. Whether they will all stay and whether they'll then go and tear up the championship remains to be seen.
5. VK seems to have decided a long time ago that all players are equal when it comes to form and selection, but some players are more equal than others and to continue to select Trafford week after week after week regardless of form or the team's perilous position is one of the most baffling things I've ever seen at the Turf in all my years watching. I'd absolutely love an explanation.

In response to your 4th point. “Punts” is a good description of the remainder of Kompany’s signings. The problem is, five of these “punts” collectively cost over 70 million. These will probably have to stay as we can’t write off the majority of the outlay by offloading them cheaply. Hopefully they will be able to cut it in the Championship as you have alluded to.
With the remainder of his “punts”, if we have to loan several of them out it will free up some wages but it’s not ideal for a club like ours to have half a dozen players or so out on loan. Only moneybags clubs like Chelsea and City are able do this year after year.
All in all it’s a bit of a headache having all of these players on the books, most of them who I wouldn’t give two bob for.
Let’s hope we are able to or Kompany is capable of assembling another squad capable of being competitive in the Championship next season.

[JohnMcGreal]

You're right. I listed Dawson, Evans and Mee above just as examples of the kind of signings we needed, where I could easily have gone on and on with Milner, Barkley, Townsend etc, etc, etc. Townsend was at bloody Gawthorpe for 2 months and we STILL let him walk away which has proved to be absolutely criminal.

In fairness we did sign Redmond who does fit that mould, but that's another one that hasn't worked out.

[Swizzlestick]

Don’t really get the Townsend shout, who hasn’t really been pulling up any trees for Luton. Ok you can say we could have dealt with it better, but that’s a different issue. We also did sign Redmond, who again has suffered an unfortunate injury.

[ChorltonCharlie]

Mine would be more about other peoples opinions...

Lack of experience/physicality as reasoning for the poor season. Contributory factors maybe, but far from the root cause which is a manager who can't get the best out of this group of players and has no idea how to set up as an underdog.

Same for effort. Vast majority of players care and are working their socks off. Heads may be down and confidence low, but there's no lack of effort. It's a lazy cliched criticism.

Injuries aren't a problem. We have a huge squad. All season we've had less injuries than most. All sides lose key players to injury.

We haven't lost a lot of points because of referees and 'VAR'. Decisions are subjective and open to debate. Fans of teams are biased in favour of their own team. We're two points down based on what a guy who reffed a world cup final thinks. Chances are he knows a lot more about football and refereeing than online football conspiracy theorists.

Recruitment wasn't that bad (lack of left back signing aside). Other managers would have kept this team/squad up or at least made a much better fist of it. I have no problem with sticking with Kompany, but him and the people that back him need to stop finding excuses and own the shambles that we're seeing week in/week out.

[dandeclaret]

Iam not sure Barkley was ever mentioned as an option for us, I don't think it would have been a popular signing at the time, Iam sure Drinkwater would have had a mention or two.

Has Townsend really been any better than what we have? I don't know his stats but he's never stood out in the few games I've seen.

We've seen enough this season to not break down the team to individuals, surely? There is a glue that is missing.

Now you could argue that Luton have been lucky to be galvanised by a horrendous incident with their captain (or unlucky that they've lost their captain and leader) but as a team they look more together when I watch them, and undoubtedly are delivering much more than the sum of their parts. Even their Keeper who was nowhere near the best in the championship last year, and cost £2m looks to be at home in the environment he's working in. Similar to the Sean Dyche / Owen Coyle teams, which performed well above the sum of their parts... not many individuals that got called out as making much of an impact, but were core parts of a collective.

Burnley however, as a team, look way below the sum of their parts..... there looks to be no connectivity, no team.... and it doesn't matter how many good individuals you have, if there's no team structure to allow them to play in, they won't win enough games.

[Colburn_Claret]

It's never one thing, always a combination of several issues.
Kompany has to hold his hand up to some of those issues.

Trafford isn't better than Muric, Muric might not be better than him either, but at least Trafford has had the opportunity. Part of management is motivation and man management, and many of our players from last season must be really ****** off with the lack of opportunities.

Last season we had the best championship team in 25 years, and it was an apt and deserved description. They needed strengthening, they didn't need rebuilding. We threw the baby out with the bath water, and the biggest problem from a fans pov, is WHY?

[Garnerssoap]

Berge is awesome. A proper midfielder that we haven’t had since Barton and Defour

[Ric_C]

I think we've chopped and changed too much this season to get into any kind of rhythm.

Last season we had a core base of players who played most weeks, and our patterns of play emanated from there.

I do think we have been unlucky with various things, indeed everything that could've gone wrong this season ...has

The left back situation, goalkeeper and striker(s) have been a major downgrade on last season

[warksclaret]

Lots of ifs and buts and you can make a case for VK either way. However for me the words of Roy Keane on Sunday saying we have been dreadful, hits home. More and more of the creditable pundits are now saying the same. I have not heard the same for Luton.

We would all love to back VK to the hilt after last season, but for me VK has created his own enemies with stubborness and naivety and its showing on a greater scale as the season goes on. I fear the PL is a step too far for him and his unproven coaching team

[matucana]

The EFL have announced a 40% rise in overseas broadcasting rights including some in the USA which they are hoping to expand upon. The finances post relegation looking brighter.

[NewClaret]

They were never meant to be - that's the point.

They were in League One three years ago and play in a 11K capacity tinshed filled with a team (Barkley,Lokonga aside) of journeymen.

Luton will be using their premier league money to really invest in their long-term future, we've chosen to speculate ours.

Two remotely different situations.

One James Trafford probably gets full redevelopment of the Bob Lord / Cricketfield end - I know what'd be better for setting BFC up for the next 20-30 years

Not sure it gets you both stands done, when you look at the rebuild cost for the Amex (£100m pre inflation), Bramley Moor Dock (£500m), etc.

I think you’re probably looking at more than £14m a stand, but I do agree with you that, in hindsight, less ‘luxury’ signings and higher investment in TM (rail seating, concourses, and maybe a new stand would’ve made me feel a bit better about this summer. I wasn’t saying this in summer, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Nori1958]

Lots of ifs and buts and you can make a case for VK either way. However for me the words of Roy Keane on Sunday saying we have been dreadful, hits home. More and more of the creditable pundits are now saying the same. I have not heard the same for Luton.

We would all love to back VK to the hilt after last season, but for me VK has created his own enemies with stubborness and naivety and its showing on a greater scale as the season goes on. I fear the PL is a step too far for him and his unproven coaching team

Keanes comments might hit home to me if I actually thought he'd watched most of our games this season.

[Wokingclaret]

Keanes comments might hit home to me if I actually thought he'd watched most of our games this season.

Well, if he hasn't seen us much, he has sussed us very quickly as have the rest of the Premier League.

[Swizzlestick]

Keane doesn’t like us because he’s pally with Dyche and didn’t like the way we treated him. Could be wrong, but he was saying we were going to struggle in the Championship last season and that it was a big mistake sacking him. So, while his opinions may by something you agree with, worth taking with a hefty pinch of salt.

[kenyon6923]

In a way we tried to do a "Nottingham Forest" who also when promoted had a few loan players in their squad/team - some signed and some didn't - they then went and signed 30 odd players BUT some were experienced players as we signed (except for Redmond ?) mostly youth and possibly potential. If these players don't shine next year by christmas they have been vastly over rated but that's football - that's signing potential - some work, some don't. Also next season will be a real test to see if VK and his staff have lost any confidence with this season as NOBODY will have seen/predicted/talked through our current situation - 13 points in March must be a real culture shock - yeah possibly a relegation fight in the worse scenario but not cut adrift like we are waiting for the inevitable.

[warksclaret]

Keanes comments might hit home to me if I actually thought he'd watched most of our games this season.

I think if he had, those comments would have come before Christmas. What he is seeing are the big mistakes in both boxes for each of our gamese, they are shown endlessly on SKY, his employers

[beddie]

You’ll always have opinions, unpopular or not. I mentioned early season like others the first thing I thought Kompany would do this season was bring in an experienced centre back. Jonny Evans was my shout when he became available. Knowing Kompany played at the highest level and in a similar position I’m still perplexed why he didn’t. I’m all for youth but you still need several experienced PL players to help these youngsters.

[Nori1958]

You’ll always have opinions, unpopular or not. I mentioned early season like others the first thing I thought Kompany would do this season was bring in an experienced centre back. Jonny Evans was my shout when he became available. Knowing Kompany played at the highest level and in a similar position I’m still perplexed why he didn’t. I’m all for youth but you still need several experienced PL players to help these youngsters.

Never stood a chance for Evans though, perplexed you might be, but a choice between burnley or man utd would have been a no brainer for him

[spt_claret]

Here's mine:

-ALK have yet to demonstrate to me they are good at anything other than PR and marketing, and the majority of their PR is thin lip service that I don't care about either way. I appreciate some people want to hear the chairman's thoughts constantly, see him at matches or shake his hand in the fanzone. Meaningless and performative IMO- the walkbacks on things like the Academy or overspend last season as documented in Mission to Burnley, and lack of financial transparency matter much more to me.

-Booing players is never justified. However, overly supportive "do no wrong, nothing to see here, if you don't like it leave" fans are just as big a problem as overly negative ones, and suppressing criticism or concerns can lead to problems that could have been avoided if more of the fanbase had spoken out or voted with their wallets.

-I am Kompany In because I believe in stability and risk avoidance and think he needs til the international break at least in the Championship to be judged, but I have major major doubts over his tactical, recruitment and man management now- it is one thing to manage it with the biggest transfer budget in the league and a core of experienced players from the division above. Another to do it as an unfavoured side. I don't know of a realistic better option currently so I wouldn't gamble on a chance but if Graham Potter was a realistic target I'd take the swap. If Dyche returning was realistic I'd take it- 2/2 full season promotions in the Championship is better than 1/1 and he's proven better at this level so far.

-"Good football" is subjective to the point of being meaningless. Results mean more than playstyle. Integrity means more than results- I don't care if other teams cheat, dive, cynically foul, handball, feign injury etc to get ahead, I'd rather we don't do it. We've been doing it since last season and it's never sat right with me. We have gone from the factually cleanest, highest integrity team in PL history, who got results, to now a team without results and of less integrity. This represents a backwards step to me regardless of playstyle, which I found genuinely enjoyable to watch under Dyche until late 2020, style is entirely subjective.

-Football has rapidly swung from underutilising data to overestimating and poorly applying data. Sports psychology and mentality seems to be getting discarded, I'm not even talking effort I'm talking unquantifiable personal and mental factors. The eye test, the guy feeling, the old school "nous", while definitely overstated in the past, are now being seen as relics when there's something to them. At a certain point, technical ability and quantifiable attributes are normalised and the difference maker is far more qualitative, the big data efforts to quantify all of football aren't going to work unless they're paired with equal understanding of psychology, mentality and personality.

[Dark Cloud]

Berge is awesome. A proper midfielder that we haven’t had since Barton and Defour

He is actually great, when he turns up. He was excellent Sunday (imo) but couldn't influence the result and it's not the only time he's looked good, but there are many other games where I feel he's far from great and I'm thinking those games tend to be against the better teams.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Face tattoos, and tattoos visible while wearing a long sleeve shirt should be illegal

(Im aware this makes me sound like Tory McBoomer)