Ashley Barnes - Horse Racing Ban

[JohnMac]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/footbal ... 3408&ei=15

[NewClaret]

I’d have thought slaying the horse fiddlers would’ve earned Barnesy a medal not a ban.

[Bosscat]

Why would Brighton (BHA) ban Barnesy from horse racing

[dandeclaret]

One of his big hobbies that. Have seen and spoken to him regularly at the races. His horse was pulled out of a race that our horse won at Doncaster a couple of years ago, he was there with a few others and the trainers Oliver Greenall and Josh Guerrerio.

[ISpeds00]

I've heard it's serious - race fixing type stuff

[Goliath]

I've heard it's serious - race fixing type stuff

Isn't that absolutely rife in horse racing.

[Lip]

Isn't that absolutely rife in horse racing.

Absolutely not,it's all above board ask Dande Claret.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I reckon that’s why all Flyingbolts tips came last, race fixing.

[dandeclaret]

Isn't that absolutely rife in horse racing.

Not absolutely rife, but happens occasionally. Authorities crack down hard when there’s evidence, particularly in betting patterns.

This could be him laying his own horse to lose, not through fixing a race, just through insider knowledge or his own judgement, but it’s an absolute no no. Even if I back my horse and then decide that I’ve had too much on, and want to lay it, I can’t do it…. You can’t lay (back your selection to lose) your own horse at any time.

[Goliath]

Not absolutely rife, but happens occasionally. Authorities crack down hard when there’s evidence, particularly in betting patterns.

This could be him laying his own horse to lose, not through fixing a race, just through insider knowledge or his own judgement, but it’s an absolute no no. Even if I back my horse and then decide that I’ve had too much on, and want to lay it, I can’t do it…. You can’t lay (back your selection to lose) your own horse at any time.

What about intentionally losing races to build up the odds and then surprisingly flying in at a big price?

[dandeclaret]

If horses are winning at big prices, it's a surprise - and there's little money on them, or the price would collapse.

If horses win having, shown no form, and then wins easily with loads of money applied - that's when they are investigated. If you want a good example of this, you can search Ronan McNally for recent examples of this.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it isn't rife.

[bfcjg]

I always knew that my once a year horse racing bet on the Grand National that invariably doesn't get placed was due to corruption and not my tried and trusted the "colours are almost Claret" selection method wasn't flawed. How do I get compensation?

[tarkys_ears]

Anyone who ***** over a bookie is alright in my book!

[Quickenthetempo]

If horses are winning at big prices, it's a surprise - and there's little money on them, or the price would collapse.

If horses win having, shown no form, and then wins easily with loads of money applied - that's when they are investigated. If you want a good example of this, you can search Ronan McNally for recent examples of this.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it isn't rife.

What do you make of decline of British horses at the minute, compared to the Irish?

Is it just money getting poured into the sport in Ireland?

People seem a lot more worried than ever. I seen a tweet yesterday saying there won't be a single British horse in the Irish National this year and only 6 in the Grand National.

[IanMcL]

Did Godolphin move to Ireland?

Arabs were propping up English racing.

[ŽižkovClaret]

What do you make of decline of British horses at the minute, compared to the Irish?

Is it just money getting poured into the sport in Ireland?

People seem a lot more worried than ever. I seen a tweet yesterday saying there won't be a single British horse in the Irish National this year and only 6 in the Grand National.

I wonder if the Queen's passing has moved the needle on that? Can't imagine Charles is too fussed?

[Goddy]

I always knew that my once a year horse racing bet on the Grand National that invariably doesn't get placed was due to corruption and not my tried and trusted the "colours are almost Claret" selection method wasn't flawed. How do I get compensation?

That's always been my approach, too, bfcjg.

The only time I won was Rag Trade in 1976. (On the same day I was at Elland Road watching us lose 2-1 to DL. Mixed emotions that day for sure.....)

[dandeclaret]

What do you make of decline of British horses at the minute, compared to the Irish?

Is it just money getting poured into the sport in Ireland?

People seem a lot more worried than ever. I seen a tweet yesterday saying there won't be a single British horse in the Irish National this year and only 6 in the Grand National.

This isn't a new thing unfortunately, it's been the happening for 10 years now. Over Jumps there's rarely a runner in the Irish National anyway - only the odd one makes the journey, but the English national is more worrying. However, if you peel back the layers, a number of the horses are irish trained, but English owned. Whilst on the flat, the prize money in Japan / Hong Kong / Australia / Dubai and now Bahrain is 100's of times more than the UK. So when a young horse shows a decent level of ability, they are sold abroad very quickly for miles more than they could win on the flat, unless they are owned by the Emerati's or European based billionaires. The impacts of the queen passing is minimal, she was gifted horses by the previous 2 groups, and probably had 30 or so in training (probably 3,000 - 5,000 or so horses in total on the flat in training). Charles has continued the trend, whilst Camilla has regularly had a small number of jumps horses.

Focusing on the jumps problems, English owners have been putting horses with a small number of Irish trainers for a while now, and have had great success partnering with Willie Mullins and Gordon Elliott. There's a few reasons for this

1) Prize money in Ireland is better - significantly. In average in the UK, as a racehorse owner - you lose 91p in every pound you spend, AFTER you've paid for the horse. Our latest horse cost £42k + vat, and training fees are around £2k per month. We've finished 2nd and 3rd in races this season (in high grade races as well), and the prize money for that has been about £3k before deductions. So we'll probably have about £2k in prize money - very much fitting the average marks above. In Ireland, if we'd finished 2nd and 3rd in similar races we'd have collected about £15k before deductions. The models are different, and I believe racecourses (through media rights) are stripping out huge amounts of funding that

2) However, Irish racing is much more competitive. They don't race 7 days a week, they tend to race 4 days a week, and therefore there's a smaller number of races. In the UK you might have 3 races worth £8k each, in Ireland you'd have one worth £50k. That competitive racing, contributes to the best horses racing against each other more often, and increasing their quality - whereas in the UK, you've 3 options to chosse from, so if Paul Nicholls has a very good horse in a novice hurdle, Nicky Henderson will avoid racing that horse and go to one of the other 2 options.

3) Ireland has a grip on securing the best young bloodstock.The point to point trainers provide an amazing filtration system, and Willie Mullins, Gordon Elliott and Hendry De Bromhead have incredibly strong links that allow them to get first pick after they've been in training for a while, before UK trainers even get a look in - hence UK owners working more and more with these stables. Equally the connections Willie Mullins has built up in France are beyond compare, and he secures the best bloodstock from there. This stranglehold doesn't feel like it will change soon.

So English (and it is English, rather than British) jumps racing is in a worrying state at present, and in rapid decline, beset by the leading factions all looking after their own interests (BHA, Racecourse association, bookmakers, Horsemen group etc) rather than the health of the overall sport. The future looks bleak, and for me the enjoyment has dropped massively. 3 years ago I had 5 horses in training, now, it's 1.... and at present, there's very little interest in restocking (Usually happens in May each year for us).

Sorry for the long post - it's a soapbox subject for me.

[Quickenthetempo]

This isn't a new thing unfortunately, it's been the happening for 10 years now. Over Jumps there's rarely a runner in the Irish National anyway - only the odd one makes the journey, but the English national is more worrying. However, if you peel back the layers, a number of the horses are irish trained, but English owned. Whilst on the flat, the prize money in Japan / Hong Kong / Australia / Dubai and now Bahrain is 100's of times more than the UK. So when a young horse shows a decent level of ability, they are sold abroad very quickly for miles more than they could win on the flat, unless they are owned by the Emerati's or European based billionaires. The impacts of the queen passing is minimal, she was gifted horses by the previous 2 groups, and probably had 30 or so in training (probably 3,000 - 5,000 or so horses in total on the flat in training). Charles has continued the trend, whilst Camilla has regularly had a small number of jumps horses.

Focusing on the jumps problems, English owners have been putting horses with a small number of Irish trainers for a while now, and have had great success partnering with Willie Mullins and Gordon Elliott. There's a few reasons for this

1) Prize money in Ireland is better - significantly. In average in the UK, as a racehorse owner - you lose 91p in every pound you spend, AFTER you've paid for the horse. Our latest horse cost £42k + vat, and training fees are around £2k per month. We've finished 2nd and 3rd in races this season (in high grade races as well), and the prize money for that has been about £3k before deductions. So we'll probably have about £2k in prize money - very much fitting the average marks above. In Ireland, if we'd finished 2nd and 3rd in similar races we'd have collected about £15k before deductions. The models are different, and I believe racecourses (through media rights) are stripping out huge amounts of funding that

2) However, Irish racing is much more competitive. They don't race 7 days a week, they tend to race 4 days a week, and therefore there's a smaller number of races. In the UK you might have 3 races worth £8k each, in Ireland you'd have one worth £50k. That competitive racing, contributes to the best horses racing against each other more often, and increasing their quality - whereas in the UK, you've 3 options to chosse from, so if Paul Nicholls has a very good horse in a novice hurdle, Nicky Henderson will avoid racing that horse and go to one of the other 2 options.

3) Ireland has a grip on securing the best young bloodstock.The point to point trainers provide an amazing filtration system, and Willie Mullins, Gordon Elliott and Hendry De Bromhead have incredibly strong links that allow them to get first pick after they've been in training for a while, before UK trainers even get a look in - hence UK owners working more and more with these stables. Equally the connections Willie Mullins has built up in France are beyond compare, and he secures the best bloodstock from there. This stranglehold doesn't feel like it will change soon.

So English (and it is English, rather than British) jumps racing is in a worrying state at present, and in rapid decline, beset by the leading factions all looking after their own interests (BHA, Racecourse association, bookmakers, Horsemen group etc) rather than the health of the overall sport. The future looks bleak, and for me the enjoyment has dropped massively. 3 years ago I had 5 horses in training, now, it's 1.... and at present, there's very little interest in restocking (Usually happens in May each year for us).

Sorry for the long post - it's a soapbox subject for me.

Cheers for the reply.

Hopefully it improves in the future.

[ŽižkovClaret]

This isn't a new thing unfortunately, it's been the happening for 10 years now. Over Jumps there's rarely a runner in the Irish National anyway - only the odd one makes the journey, but the English national is more worrying. However, if you peel back the layers, a number of the horses are irish trained, but English owned. Whilst on the flat, the prize money in Japan / Hong Kong / Australia / Dubai and now Bahrain is 100's of times more than the UK. So when a young horse shows a decent level of ability, they are sold abroad very quickly for miles more than they could win on the flat, unless they are owned by the Emerati's or European based billionaires. The impacts of the queen passing is minimal, she was gifted horses by the previous 2 groups, and probably had 30 or so in training (probably 3,000 - 5,000 or so horses in total on the flat in training). Charles has continued the trend, whilst Camilla has regularly had a small number of jumps horses.

Focusing on the jumps problems, English owners have been putting horses with a small number of Irish trainers for a while now, and have had great success partnering with Willie Mullins and Gordon Elliott. There's a few reasons for this

1) Prize money in Ireland is better - significantly. In average in the UK, as a racehorse owner - you lose 91p in every pound you spend, AFTER you've paid for the horse. Our latest horse cost £42k + vat, and training fees are around £2k per month. We've finished 2nd and 3rd in races this season (in high grade races as well), and the prize money for that has been about £3k before deductions. So we'll probably have about £2k in prize money - very much fitting the average marks above. In Ireland, if we'd finished 2nd and 3rd in similar races we'd have collected about £15k before deductions. The models are different, and I believe racecourses (through media rights) are stripping out huge amounts of funding that

2) However, Irish racing is much more competitive. They don't race 7 days a week, they tend to race 4 days a week, and therefore there's a smaller number of races. In the UK you might have 3 races worth £8k each, in Ireland you'd have one worth £50k. That competitive racing, contributes to the best horses racing against each other more often, and increasing their quality - whereas in the UK, you've 3 options to chosse from, so if Paul Nicholls has a very good horse in a novice hurdle, Nicky Henderson will avoid racing that horse and go to one of the other 2 options.

3) Ireland has a grip on securing the best young bloodstock.The point to point trainers provide an amazing filtration system, and Willie Mullins, Gordon Elliott and Hendry De Bromhead have incredibly strong links that allow them to get first pick after they've been in training for a while, before UK trainers even get a look in - hence UK owners working more and more with these stables. Equally the connections Willie Mullins has built up in France are beyond compare, and he secures the best bloodstock from there. This stranglehold doesn't feel like it will change soon.

So English (and it is English, rather than British) jumps racing is in a worrying state at present, and in rapid decline, beset by the leading factions all looking after their own interests (BHA, Racecourse association, bookmakers, Horsemen group etc) rather than the health of the overall sport. The future looks bleak, and for me the enjoyment has dropped massively. 3 years ago I had 5 horses in training, now, it's 1.... and at present, there's very little interest in restocking (Usually happens in May each year for us).

Sorry for the long post - it's a soapbox subject for me.

Good to have an informed post from an SME on here. Doesn't happen often, sadly

[bfcjg]

A guy I did a lot of work for was an avid horse racing follower,he wasn't a professional gambler but subsidised his not inconsiderable lifestyle with betting. He told me he only bets on races like at Cartmel and other minor courses as these are less likely to attract attention and "help" is available. Not being remotely interested in racing I'm not sure if this was fanciful talk or there is a grain of truth in it.

[Longsidelenny1882]

Check the Barney Curley story out featuring yellow Sam great story in Irish racing utc

[Longsidelenny1882]

Watch the man who beat the bookies utc

[Tricky Trevor]

A bit more info.
https://www.skysports.com/share/13099766

[SalouClaret]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=abBYIR-xP ... Npbg%3D%3D

This is the ride in question. The horse went from 2/1 out to 12/1 just before the race. Someone with connections to the horse clearly placed a large bet for it not to win. That horse could have won that race by a long long way, but the jockey was instructed not to win. Disgraceful.

If Barnes had any input in that decision, he should rightly be nowhere near a racecourse ever again.

[Goliath]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=abBYIR-xP ... Npbg%3D%3D

This is the ride in question. The horse went from 2/1 out to 12/1 just before the race. Someone with connections to the horse clearly placed a large bet for it not to win. That horse could have won that race by a long long way, but the jockey was instructed not to win. Disgraceful.

If Barnes had any input in that decision, he should rightly be nowhere near a racecourse ever again.

Ffs. Incredibly thick to make it that obvious

[SalouClaret]

Ffs. Incredibly thick to make it that obvious

Amazingly bad wasn't it

[claretonthecoast1882]

Amazingly bad wasn't it

To be fair to Dylan on the run in both of his arms locked and he was left unable to push the horse out properly until passing the winning post

[SalouClaret]

To be fair to Dylan on the run in both of his arms locked and he was left unable to push the horse out properly until passing the winning post

Haha, that's the only explanation!

[Clovius Boofus]

After reading this thread - I'm so glad that I've never bothered with the gee-gees. A weekend football acca is enough for me. Informative thread, though. Cheers.

[Down_Rover]

Article now on Racing post website news section.

Horse in question reported as Hillsin at Worcester last Summer

[Tricky Trevor]

After reading this thread - I'm so glad that I've never bothered with the gee-gees. A weekend football acca is enough for me. Informative thread, though. Cheers.

I had a mate that worked race days at Catterick. Young stable girl, a Malton yard, would go for a brew if it had no chance and go waiting for it after the finishing line if it had a good chance. He only backed them when she went to the rails. He did very well.

[Eyesofblue2]

I always liked the old Lester Piggot story, probably apocryphal, but it's worth bearing in mind if you're betting the geegees. He was asked to ride a 2yo at Newmarket a few weeks before Royal Ascot, it was making it's debut and he was asked to give it a 'quiet' ride, a gentle introduction to racing, as they were going for one of the big Royal Ascot 2yo races with it. He settled it in midfield, did just enough with it to keep the stewards off his back and finished right up behind the first four. The first thing he was asked when he jumped off was, 'Can we beat those in front of us at Ascot ?' 'Oh yes', said Lester, 'We can beat them , but I don't know about those behind us'.