RATE THE REF - Darren England v Chelsea

[IPAclaret]

Apologies for going off thread but compare yesterday's penalty and sending off and the one that still irritates me, Tim Krul almost taking Vydras head off a few seasons ago and absolutely nothing given.

[Roosterbooster]

I wasn't at the game, so can't score

But having watched the penalty decision numerous times, I can confidently say one thing

The only way you give that decision is if you are actively trying to provide an advantage to one team

I knew there was an incident to watch out for when I was watching, and I have to say, on first viewing, I was amazed that that was it. I'm angry about it. But not in the least bit surprised.

One thing is for certain. We are never getting that decision

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

This guy was lucky to survive his Liverpool error earlier in the season. Should be nowhere near the refs position moving forward. Got to be the weakest penalty I have seen for many a year. Touching someone’s shoulder shouldn’t make them fall down like that. Why didn’t var intervene? ( because their operators are clueless too!)

When are they going to get a hold on the quality of these refs.

PGMOL are abysmal.

[Luppy]

The penalty is just ridiculous. Are we going to start giving fouls every time a defender Marshall’s a ball out of play for a goal kick whilst making no attempt to play the ball and obstructing the attacker? They’re more of a foul than that ridiculous decision yesterday

[Mondsley]

Has to be - and there have been a number - the worst ever referee ever to have officiated a Burnley game.
He was so unbelievably biased in his decision making seeming to offer for example disproportionate punishment to our defender for such a limp challenge in the penalty area.
I cannot give any meaningful score to England.

I'm not disagreeing, but that's a big call after Lee Mason at home v PNE and Rob Jones away at Leeds. Saw a challenge by Dan Burn yesterday against West Ham in the box that was far more "robust" than Assignon's. Not even given as a foul. And that was Jones reffing. Go figure.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

John Brooks on VAR shouldn't get off scott free either, he had the chance to correct it and chose not to. Shame is I really rate Brooks and rate him as being the best of the bunch constantly atm

[ecc]

I can only access the sites of the BBC and The Guardian. Neither reporter mentions any of England's decisions.

When I watched their penalty first time it looked like...a penalty. However, the replay from a camera behind the goal gives a different insight.

He didn't use VAR, did he?

[Bobzuruncle]

The Krul one still nags at me too but what I find so galling is when I compare it to the onfield decision of the ref in the Brentford game for our penalty that had to be given by VAR. Both trained/retrained recently to current standards and directives in the same league - when you consider the first one not given for a blatant barge and yesterday’s given for the merest touch it really is hard not to consider at least a subconscious bias.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

The Krul one still nags at me too but what I find so galling is when I compare it to the onfield decision of the ref in the Brentford game for our penalty that had to be given by VAR. Both trained/retrained recently to current standards and directives in the same league - when you consider the first one not given for a blatant barge and yesterday’s given for the merest touch it really is hard not to consider at least a subconscious bias.

Perhaps it's a design fault in ref's with the first name Darren

[Bobzuruncle]

Perhaps it's a design fault in ref's with the first name Darren

You may have something there. Earlier someone mentioned preferring AI to ref matches and I tend to agree !

[PaintYorkClaretnBlue]

The problem stems from the fact that the refs and pundits promote cheating by not punishing players and not calling them out on tv. There should have to be a clear effort to stay on your feet and continue playing, the problem again is that if a player does that he gets nothing, even if he is genuinely impeded.

[Zom Zom]

Wasn't Darren England working the VAR when Sander Berge was ruled to have deliberately hand-balled when setting Foster up for what would have been the winner?

[northeastclaret]

I think he was and involved against Luton as well?

What a dream team of tw@ts him and Jones at Forest , we stood no chance

[Roosterbooster]

Apologies for going off thread but compare yesterday's penalty and sending off and the one that still irritates me, Tim Krul almost taking Vydras head off a few seasons ago and absolutely nothing given.

It is slightly off thread, but it backs up the argument of most posts on here. The level of "foul" for the 2 are poles apart. But the blatant foul doesn't get given. And the softest brush you'll ever see results in a red card and a penalty. And I can only think of one reason why...

Cheating is a strong word. Bias is not

It's probably somewhere in the middle

[DAVETHEVICAR]

To answer Petersa further up the thread Rebecca Welch is on duty at the Stoke v Huddersfield game tomorrow.
She has been officiating in other games outs the Premier League

[Hibsclaret]

The City Arsenal game is 30 mins old and Arsenal should have at least 2 bookings. If that was us we would have. That’s exactly how they referee the top teams differently.

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Agree a yellow in second half would see a player off.
Second Halves see Referees waving cards around

[Cirrus_Minor]

Listened to Radio Lancashire shortly after the match yesterday and the concensus between the commentator and Glen Little was that VAR officials don't like to overrule the referee. Incredible that a professional journalist and ex pro footballer might think this could even be true. And now watching City v Arsenal, Arsenal players bear hug City players throughout a corner being taken without any intervention from any official. Refereeing is now a complete shambles in the Premier league.

[dsr]

When the ref gives a penalty, VAR will not overturn it unless they can prove that the forward was not touched. If there was the merest touch, then it will be confirmed. That's the way the powers that be think it should be done, for the time being.

[Rileybobs]

When the ref gives a penalty, VAR will not overturn it unless they can prove that the forward was not touched. If there was the merest touch, then it will be confirmed. That's the way the powers that be think it should be done, for the time being.

Exactly. Even though I was apoplectic when it was given I knew without doubt that the VAR wouldn’t overturn as all they need to look for is contact between two players to ratify the referee’s decision. The whole thing stinks.

[JohnDearyMe]

Let's hope they don't put this cretin in charge of our last game at home to Forest because if there's anything riding on it and he does that sort of thing again he might get lynched

Is it possible that he could be prevented from officiating in any future Burnley games after his efforts vs Chelsea and on the VAR against Forest? I'm sure if we were one of the "big" clubs he wouldn't be able to show his face again

[RammyClaret61]

The problem is VAR. we will never know if England was hoping that VAR would help after the fact. But VAR was brought in to get things right. In that sense, it’s failed miserably, in fact it’s a disaster. Way to many grey areas, way to many get outs!
1) “Clear and obvious”
2) “we don’t want VAR re-reffing the game”

First off, number one is still subjective. Is it? Or isn’t it? It’s different from one game to anther. Really inconsistent, so it’s improved nothing, in fact it’s made the game worse.
Secondly, when VAR intervenes, it is RE-REFFING the game! Running a microscope over every minute detail for several minutes. Then still getting it wrong. What’s the point?

Without VAR, yesterday would still be a penalty. The ref gave it. I’m sure we lived with these decisions before tv started to analyse every detail, “there was contact, he had a right to go down” and demanding we get everything to the millimetre correct. Technology, except goaline, doesn’t work. Let’s get rid and enjoy the game on the pitch.

VAR you are charged with the murder of the beautiful game.

[HuncoatClaret]

If VAR is here to stay, ref's have to be taken off it. Give it to some of the hundreds of ex players who want to stay in the game.

[Joe14]

Zero

Some crap refs in this league. Embarrassing.

[CleggHall]

England is panhandled by Garth Crooks BBC website, well worth a read

[Poulton-le-Claret]

England is panhandled by Garth Crooks BBC website, well worth a read

Just seen, posting below:

Cole Palmer (Chelsea): I've seen some poor decisions in my time but the penalty awarded to Chelsea for the apparent foul on Mykhailo Mudryk by Burnley's Lorenz Assignon was about as farcical as it gets.

Darren England's assessment of the situation was appalling. He awarded a penalty to a player whose first touch was so poor he sent the ball in the direction of the defender - who then inevitably made shoulder contact with the striker. Not every bit of contact in the box has to be a penalty. The issue is whether it is a foul or not.

For England to seriously consider the contact on Mudryk a penalty was laughable. However, having sent Assignon off for a second yellow he should have at least sought confirmation from the touchline monitor which is now available to referees - but he did not. It is hardly surprising Burnley boss Vincent Kompany completely lost it on the side of the pitch.

The way Palmer dispatched his penalty showed he has supreme confidence in his own ability. But his dinked finish was bordering on 'taking the Michael' and players have a way of dealing with that. If he's not careful he may have his wings clipped.

[Petersa]

To answer Petersa further up the thread Rebecca Welch is on duty at the Stoke v Huddersfield game tomorrow.
She has been officiating in other games outs the Premier League

Thankyou Dave , pleased to hear that. I find it a bit surprising though she hasn't had another PL game I thought she did well in her Burnley game unlike some others who seem to be walking disaster areas week in week out

[dsr]

Just seen, posting below:

Cole Palmer (Chelsea): I've seen some poor decisions in my time but the penalty awarded to Chelsea for the apparent foul on Mykhailo Mudryk by Burnley's Lorenz Assignon was about as farcical as it gets.

Darren England's assessment of the situation was appalling. He awarded a penalty to a player whose first touch was so poor he sent the ball in the direction of the defender - who then inevitably made shoulder contact with the striker. Not every bit of contact in the box has to be a penalty. The issue is whether it is a foul or not.

For England to seriously consider the contact on Mudryk a penalty was laughable. However, having sent Assignon off for a second yellow he should have at least sought confirmation from the touchline monitor which is now available to referees - but he did not. It is hardly surprising Burnley boss Vincent Kompany completely lost it on the side of the pitch.

The way Palmer dispatched his penalty showed he has supreme confidence in his own ability. But his dinked finish was bordering on 'taking the Michael' and players have a way of dealing with that. If he's not careful he may have his wings clipped.

I don't think VAR is set up to give the ref a second look. The official ref is only allowed one look, and if he isn't sure, he has to guess (which incidentally should never mean guessing at a penalty, that's another issue.)

The ref will only have a second look after the VAR man has made a decision that the referee is positively, incontrovertibly wrong, and the ref will only get a second look then at carefully selected angles provided by the VAR man who is determined to prove that he is right.

Obviously if there is any contact at all, VAR will say it was a foul. However blatant or obvious the dive.

The problem runs deep. VAR, clearly, is organised by idiots who are more concerned with how VAR works than how football works. The PGMOL is run by people who believe that with proper training all referees can be turned into automata will will always give the identical decision whoever that ref may be. They are all chasing theoretical perfection, which can't be attained, and in the chase for theoretical perfection they are throwing out many of the things that made it satisfactory for the purpose.

[ralph8]

I think he will now be known forever as:
Darren worst referee in England

[Clarets4me]

His next assignment should be on Hackney Marshes, and those teams will wonder what they've done to deserve him ...

[THEWELLERNUT70]

Dermot Gallagher " I'm sorry but it's 100% not a penalty"

No appeal for the second Assignon yellow card either

[Rileybobs]

Stephen Warnock described it as the worst decision this season.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

Yet there's one or two on here that say differently, even after Mr tow the PGMOL line Dermot Gallagher has stated 100% not a penalty.

There's some on here that would argue that the sky is green and the grass is blue

[CaptJohn]

I find it very sad that the standard of refereeing in this country has fallen so low. That performance was inept, gutless and unfortunately it had a whiff of bias about it.

[morninbob]

One of the worst decisions of the season

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/1 ... lsea-drama

[northeastclaret]

Didn’t stop Pochittino saying the ref got the decision right , no wonder refs are biased when some managers don’t support follow managers when there is a clear injustice. The Brentford manager two weeks ago was far more honourable.

Poch even said they were victims of a VAR decision earlier with the disallowed goal, what an odious ****@er.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Thankyou Dave , pleased to hear that. I find it a bit surprising though she hasn't had another PL game I thought she did well in her Burnley game unlike some others who seem to be walking disaster areas week in week out

She did referee the Bournemouth v Nottingham Forest match on 4 February and she sent Billings off and cautioned 5 other players in a 1-1 draw.
She was also involved in the Womens Premier League when she refereed Chelsea v Arsenal on 15 March.

[Casper2]

How does this clown get to carry on , already suspended this season after he disallowed the Liverpool “offside”goal at Spurs

[ralph8]

Just sums up some of the Premier League posh seat fans seeing the middle aged Chelsea fan clapping the decision to Red Card Vincent.

[beeholeclaret]

Didn’t stop Pochittino saying the ref got the decision right , no wonder refs are biased when some managers don’t support follow managers when there is a clear injustice. The Brentford manager two weeks ago was far more honourable.

Poch even said they were victims of a VAR decision earlier with the disallowed goal, what an odious ****@er.

Ive never forgotten (or forgiven for that matter) when Poch took a hissy fit when his Spurs team lost at Burnley to that Ben Mee header.

It is typical that he would support the referees decision mainly becuase he will have been coaching and encouraging his players to 'play the South American way' which usually involves a lot of sneaky fouling and rolling about on the ground pretending theyve been kicked or punched. More's the pity that they haven't.

The guys a plank who cant get a £1bn team much above half way up the league table. Great to see.

[Casper2]

Ive never forgotten (or forgiven for that matter) when Poch took a hissy fit when his Spurs team lost at Burnley to that Ben Mee header.

It is typical that he would support the referees decision mainly becuase he will have been coaching and encouraging his players to 'play the South American way' which usually involves a lot of sneaky fouling and rolling about on the ground pretending theyve been kicked or punched. More's the pity that they haven't.

The guys a plank who cant get a £1bn team much above half way up the league table. Great to see.

Conti was Spurs manager for that game

[Bosscat]

Conti was Spurs manager for that game

Tom or Nina

[Petersa]

She did referee the Bournemouth v Nottingham Forest match on 4 February and she sent Billings off and cautioned 5 other players in a 1-1 draw.
She was also involved in the Womens Premier League when she refereed Chelsea v Arsenal on 15 March.

Thanks AC46

[ClaretAL]

Someone at the club should clip all the game chaining injustices that have cost us points this season, and send them to the Premier League and the PGMOL and ask them for their explanation as to how so many can happen to 1 club.

[Casper2]

Tom or Nina

Kunta

[Goody1975]

We keep hearing, that we don't want referees to be robots but the idea of introducing technology is to get consistent decisions, that is not what VAR is doing at the minute.

IF VAR looks at two identical incidents and gives two different decisions then it shows it's not fit for purpose, sticking with the onfield decision is commendable in supporting officials but pointless, if you are doing that then just bin VAR and go back to what we had previously.

[Dark Cloud]

Ive never forgotten (or forgiven for that matter) when Poch took a hissy fit when his Spurs team lost at Burnley to that Ben Mee header.

It is typical that he would support the referees decision mainly becuase he will have been coaching and encouraging his players to 'play the South American way' which usually involves a lot of sneaky fouling and rolling about on the ground pretending theyve been kicked or punched. More's the pity that they haven't.

The guys a plank who cant get a £1bn team much above half way up the league table. Great to see.

I think the game you're referring to was the 2-1 win with Barnes scoring quite close to the end. It was a great performance from us and a thoroughly deserved victory and Mr Pochetino really couldn't stomach it and the lid definitely came off post match!!

[CrosspoolClarets]

Someone at the club should clip all the game chaining injustices that have cost us points this season, and send them to the Premier League and the PGMOL and ask them for their explanation as to how so many can happen to 1 club.

You can only send a certain amount of megabytes on an email.

Pretty sure our compilation will exceed it.

Even just the Forest and Luton ones alone have deprived us being in 17th currently.

[beeholeclaret]

Conti was Spurs manager for that game

Yes thinking back I think he had to be restrained as they walked off - was it a day time match? The Ben Mee header was a night game I think.

[Dark Cloud]

Yes thinking back I think he had to be restrained as they walked off - was it a day time match? The Ben Mee header was a night game I think.

Yes, the 2-1 was an afternoon match and we randomly rode on the train to Sowerby after for a few pints and were able to "chat" to the many Spurs fans on the train, which was nice!
The Ben Mee header was a night game, but another great performance and every bit as deserving of the win.