Free Kick Or No Free Kick

[KlyBfc]

Another truly awful decision. However another awful piece of defending by us, absolutely school boy and for that there’s no excuse.

The ineptitude of the referee was then compounded last night when he let us kick off again before stopping the game as VAR hadn’t ran its checks. I don’t think it was anything to do with the free kick being awarded, more so that they just hadn’t ran the usual offside checks they run on almost every goal.

They just get worse by the week and they (coupled with VAR) are ruining the game as a spectacle for me.

[claretonthecoast1882]

There are clowns on the match thread who think it was a foul, even this crap ref isn't alone in his thinking.

[what_no_pies]

The reason why VAR didn’t intervene is because it can’t overturn “fouls” outside the area

If an attacker fouls a defender in the build up to a goal they can go back and sort that out retrospectively. So VAR can change a decision (or lack thereof) if the roles are reversed. Make it make sense.

[wilks_bfc]

If an attacker fouls a defender in the build up to a goal they can go back and sort that out retrospectively. So VAR can change a decision (or lack thereof) if the roles are reversed. Make it make sense.

Once the onfield ref has given the foul out of the area there is nothing the VAR can about it.

When a goal is scored the VAR will review the build up to the goal, but they will only check from when the free kick is taken.

I do agree if a goal is scored, then the free kick that led to it should be checked, but how back do you draw the line?

[jlup1980]

Whilst players are rewarded for cheating the Coaching staff will encourage it.

I don't think Ait Nouri cheated, he just lost his balance. He was laughing as he made his way into the box - he knew full well what had happened.

The only cheat on the pitch was their number 8, João Gomes. He should have booked for his tackle on Vitinho in the first half but stayed down feigning injury (clearly a Wolves tactic as Lemina did exactly the same thing in the second half). He then feigned another injury early in the second half which ended with the referee stopping play and us losing the momentum we had built up. He finally got booked for his shocking tackle on Benson. Absolutely no intent to get anywhere near the ball, just cynically wiping out his standing leg.

When you look back at some of the soft red cards we've had this season it infuriates me that others get away with such cynical behaviour.

[JohnMac]

I don't think Ait Nouri cheated, he just lost his balance. He was laughing as he made his way into the box - he knew full well what had happened.

The only cheat on the pitch was their number 8, João Gomes. He should have booked for his tackle on Vitinho in the first half but stayed down feigning injury (clearly a Wolves tactic as Lemina did exactly the same thing in the second half). He then feigned another injury early in the second half which ended with the referee stopping play and us losing the momentum we had built up. He finally got booked for his shocking tackle on Benson. Absolutely no intent to get anywhere near the ball, just cynically wiping out his standing leg.

When you look back at some of the soft red cards we've had this season it infuriates me that others get away with such cynical behaviour.

I was talking about the game in general but particularly at the highest levels but I wouldn't dispute any of that and well summarised.

[KateR]

to my mind, watching on TV and didn't bother with replays, O'Shea is chasing him and never going to catch him, his hand goes up, it looked as though he was trying to slow him down. Whether he touched him or not I don't know but certainly looked like he was trying to. I think he "felt" him and certainly acted like he'd been pulled back, then fell over well after O'Shea was past him. Whether he touched him or not, it was ridiculously soft but I can see/understand why the ref gave it, very good acting all round.

However, there are going to be numerous fouls given against us in every game, we still don't defend well, it was a very poor goal to give away and we need to do better, much better. Unfortunately, I don't see this being the last soft goal we give away this season, we can't keep blaming other things, we need to sort out the root cause and it's us!

[Burnley Ace]

to my mind, watching on TV and didn't bother with replays, O'Shea is chasing him and never going to catch him, his hand goes up, it looked as though he was trying to slow him down. Whether he touched him or not I don't know but certainly looked like he was trying to. I think he "felt" him and certainly acted like he'd been pulled back, then fell over well after O'Shea was past him. Whether he touched him or not, it was ridiculously soft but I can see/understand why the ref gave it, very good acting all round.

If that’s what you saw then you need to get a new TV!!

[KateR]

If that’s what you saw then you need to get a new TV!!

I knew my opinion would be contentious, and wondered who'd be the first, well done!

[RammyClaret61]

to my mind, watching on TV and didn't bother with replays, O'Shea is chasing him and never going to catch him, his hand goes up, it looked as though he was trying to slow him down. Whether he touched him or not I don't know but certainly looked like he was trying to. I think he "felt" him and certainly acted like he'd been pulled back, then fell over well after O'Shea was past him. Whether he touched him or not, it was ridiculously soft but I can see/understand why the ref gave it, very good acting all round.

However, there are going to be numerous fouls given against us in every game, we still don't defend well, it was a very poor goal to give away and we need to do better, much better. Unfortunately, I don't see this being the last soft goal we give away this season, we can't keep blaming other things, we need to sort out the root cause and it's us!

O’Shea had already caught up with, and was already past him, the wolves player then stopped, tried to do a fancy turn, but fell over the ball. O’Shea never touched him, and did nothing wrong.
And for poor defending of the free kick. Yes it was. But how about we should not have needed to defend it in the first place?

[Burnley Ace]

I knew my opinion would be contentious, and wondered who'd be the first, well done!

A contrarian is always contentious, good cast.

[morpheus2]

Nobody was anywhere near him when he fell over, unbelievable

That's not quite true - the referee was the closest person to him when he tripped himself up, he had a clear view and saw exactly what the other 20,121 people in the stadium saw.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Ref watch on sky sports to make it all good again

It seems the world is again referees at the moment - such a stupid comment from Dermot Gallagher when they are the ones making basic errors and we suffer the consequences.

[Hipper]

I don't think the ref is in the perfect position. Whilst up with play he's a bit close. All he might have seen is O'Shea's arm movement then the player going down. It makes sense because O'Shea had messed up so it's quite possible he will try to foul to recover the situation. I agree it's not a free kick and the ref got it wrong but the general problem for all refs and particularly at this level is that players cheat, both forwards and defenders. Frankly the players that cheat and the management that allow, even encourage it (and I include VK) are to blame for incidents like this. Refs are doing there best.

VAR of course check the goal but aren't interested in the free kick.

[distortiondave]

Dermot Gallagher on drunk drivers (allegedly):
'It's not deliberate, it's just a misjudgement, but it is the consequences - because if that driver kills someone the stakes get ramped up. If he gets home safe and sound, it gets washed away and forgotten.
It seems as if the world is against drinking and driving at the minute. That driver is over the limit, kills someone and everything seems wrong.'

Dermot Gallagher on sexual assault (allegedly):
'It's not rape, it's just a misjudgement, but it is the consequences - because if the sex isn't consensual the stakes get ramped up. If she consents it gets washed away and forgotten.
It seems as if the world is against rape at the minute. That person behaves wrongly, rapes someone and everything seems wrong.'

Dermot Gallagher on murder (allegedly):
'It's not premeditated, it's just a misjudgement, but it is the consequences - because he stabbed someone 47 times and kills them the stakes get ramped up. If he doesn't do that, it gets washed away and forgotten.
It seems as if the world is against murder at the minute. That person is a murderous psychopath, kills someone and everything seems wrong.'

Dermot Gallagher on referees (literally):
'If the referee doesn't make a mistake, no one cares. But if the referee does make a mistake, people care. What's all that about?!'

[dsr]

I don't think the ref is in the perfect position. Whilst up with play he's a bit close. All he might have seen is O'Shea's arm movement then the player going down. It makes sense because O'Shea had messed up so it's quite possible he will try to foul to recover the situation. I agree it's not a free kick and the ref got it wrong but the general problem for all refs and particularly at this level is that players cheat, both forwards and defenders. Frankly the players that cheat and the management that allow, even encourage it (and I include VK) are to blame for incidents like this. Refs are doing there best.

VAR of course check the goal but aren't interested in the free kick.

The problem isn't that the ref on one occasion got it wrong, it's that they repeatedly get it wrong. And the reason they repeatedly get it wrong is because they are taught to give free kicks when players fall over, regardless of whether they have seen a foul.

[martin_p]

This whole episode (and Chelsea on Saturday) demonstrates just why VAR is pointless. Wolves have scored after a ‘clear and obvious’ refereeing decision but VAR is powerless to do anything about it. It’s not helping referees as it was supposed to, quite the opposite in fact, it’s leading them more open to cries of ‘cheat’ and ‘corruption’ with obvious errors not being picked up by officials even when VAR checks.

[Hipper]

The problem isn't that the ref on one occasion got it wrong, it's that they repeatedly get it wrong. And the reason they repeatedly get it wrong is because they are taught to give free kicks when players fall over, regardless of whether they have seen a foul.

How do you know what they are taught?

[dsr]

How do you know what they are taught?

All top level referees are marked on every decision they make. About 250 per game. If the people marking them, who by definition are their teachers, thought that refs in general were giving too many free kicks, then the ones who give most would be quickly replaced or else told to give fewer.

Refs haven't independently, en masse, come to the conclusion that footballers are scrupulously honest and would not exaggerate a contact. They have been told to referee as if that was true.

[Hipper]

All top level referees are marked on every decision they make. About 250 per game. If the people marking them, who by definition are their teachers, thought that refs in general were giving too many free kicks, then the ones who give most would be quickly replaced or else told to give fewer.

Refs haven't independently, en masse, come to the conclusion that footballers are scrupulously honest and would not exaggerate a contact. They have been told to referee as if that was true.

I see no real evidence of your last paragraph. They do penalise players for diving and 'simulation'. Not often enough for sure but they do do it.

I tried to referee (park football) and it is very easy to get swallowed into making wrong decisions by hysterics and appeals, especially quick decisions. You try not to do this but it's not easy. Of course top class referees should be wise to this but they may well have some instructions on the lines of 'remember, this is a spectator sport and fans are not here to watch you but the players'. They are also under pressure from all angles - clubs (look at the lengths they are now going to with Forests 'Refereeing Consultant'), media, fans, leagues, and their own employers.

What a job!