Just a fallacious argument Paul. You could equally argue on the same basis that top teams concede goals so what's the issue except top teams don't concede 67 of them.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 4:45 pmTop teams never ever make mistakes that lead to goals being given away, or do they?
The cost of playing out badly
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ClaretPete001
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Re: The cost of playing out badly
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ClaretPete001
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Re: The cost of playing out badly
It's the same fallacious argument Paul makes. Just because top teams do something doesn't mean we can also do it.CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 5:08 pmWe are seeing in the Liverpool United game examples of what I wrote above, that many teams get punished playing it out and it isn’t the reason why we are 2nd bottom. Looks like it may cost Liverpool the title.
I’m sure these managers all still believe in their approaches though.
Top teams have 11 players and so do we but 11 players don't make you a top team.
You can argue that VK didn't get the players he wanted but Burnley managers don't....! You could also argue that we have players for the future except 4 of them are on loan. And you can hardly say Everton looked better than us yesterday so you have to come up with some explanation.
Re: The cost of playing out badly
Actually playing this way the football is boring.
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Paul Waine
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Re: The cost of playing out badly
I understand games are won and lost on the number of goals scored by the two teams in a game. I don't think anyone is arguing about the number of goals conceded or scored. But, we've seen some of the top teams give away some soft goals this weekend. We've also seen the Burnley goalkeeper give away a soft goal this weekend.ClaretPete001 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 5:24 pmJust a fallacious argument Paul. You could equally argue on the same basis that top teams concede goals so what's the issue except top teams don't concede 67 of them.
My understanding is that some are arguing that giving away soft goals is a sign of a poor goalkeeper or a poor team, or something. I'd argue it's not as simple as that.
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claretspice
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Re: The cost of playing out badly
I accept you can make an argument that much of our general defending has been OK, particularly since we tightened up the way we were playing in November time. We've looked fairly well organised and for long periods individuals have looked perfectly at home at this level.
However, that's a bit like a driver who has swerved and hit someone arguing they drove really well for the other 5 hours of their journey. You can't afford to lapse concentration for one minute.
It is that concentration on occasions (both for goals and sendings off), plus our level of organisation and aggression in defending set pieces (which for my money has been our biggest failing) that has been our biggest Achilles heel this season - together with a tendency to overcomplicate our possession play at the back. It's fine saying that other clubs have conceded similar goals - that may well be the case. But given they all score an awful lot more goals than us as a result of playing from front to back - because they have better players so can evade the opponents' attempts to win back the ball better - their risk and reward equation is completely different. So that isn't a mitigation for the sort of daft decision we saw yesterday.
All these three shortcomings - concentration, set piece organisation and better decision making - are a function of mentality. Ours simply hasn't been right this season. That's not the same as lacking effort or basic professionalism, which I'm sure the players have an VK expects. But the mentality of absolutely iron discipline and focus and demanding the magic bit extra from each other is something that can't be built overnight, particularly not in a team that is going to go through tough spells in a relegation fight (everything is easier when you're better than the opposition regularly) and yet this squad was thrown together pretty much overnight last summer without even having the benefit of real experience. It isn't a surprise that that mentality just isn't there.
However, that's a bit like a driver who has swerved and hit someone arguing they drove really well for the other 5 hours of their journey. You can't afford to lapse concentration for one minute.
It is that concentration on occasions (both for goals and sendings off), plus our level of organisation and aggression in defending set pieces (which for my money has been our biggest failing) that has been our biggest Achilles heel this season - together with a tendency to overcomplicate our possession play at the back. It's fine saying that other clubs have conceded similar goals - that may well be the case. But given they all score an awful lot more goals than us as a result of playing from front to back - because they have better players so can evade the opponents' attempts to win back the ball better - their risk and reward equation is completely different. So that isn't a mitigation for the sort of daft decision we saw yesterday.
All these three shortcomings - concentration, set piece organisation and better decision making - are a function of mentality. Ours simply hasn't been right this season. That's not the same as lacking effort or basic professionalism, which I'm sure the players have an VK expects. But the mentality of absolutely iron discipline and focus and demanding the magic bit extra from each other is something that can't be built overnight, particularly not in a team that is going to go through tough spells in a relegation fight (everything is easier when you're better than the opposition regularly) and yet this squad was thrown together pretty much overnight last summer without even having the benefit of real experience. It isn't a surprise that that mentality just isn't there.
Re: The cost of playing out badly
n a post match interview Calvert-Lewin said they were aware of Burnley’s tendency at times to overplay from the back, and had practiced during the week putting us under pressure to take advantage of any errors.
I’m sure most teams do that now - all it needs is a bit of unpredictability to stop the high press. VK seems to
demand otherwise.
Much of this debacle is down to him.
Trafford seemed to have to play ( was that part of the sale deal?) when it was clear to many he should have been dropped months earlier. Muric is much better and has more presence but I’m never 100% confident in his consistency.
A very disappointing season
I’m sure most teams do that now - all it needs is a bit of unpredictability to stop the high press. VK seems to
demand otherwise.
Much of this debacle is down to him.
Trafford seemed to have to play ( was that part of the sale deal?) when it was clear to many he should have been dropped months earlier. Muric is much better and has more presence but I’m never 100% confident in his consistency.
A very disappointing season