Dyches gameplan?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:54 pm

Does anyone have any idea? Call it 442 451 or whatever you want its effectively a 9-0-1 and a big hoof to the isolated front man. 8 shots on target in 5 games. Painful to watch my club play this way.

Now you can say "oh well we played the Champions" but it was the same dire stuff last season and every game this season.

You can question "Dyche is doing the best with resources he has" but I then put forward Hull and Phelan, a side we finished above last season who haven't strengthened significantly they are minus crucial players like Mcgregor Dawson Diame Odubajo (4 guaranteed starters for them last season). Hull look an awful lot better than us, brave on the ball no fear and creating chances.

Awful no other words to put it, scared to push the team up the pitch, scared to pass forward scared to do anything other than park the bus and hoof it to nobody.
Zieler was sunbathing today on a deck chair

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:58 pm

Hull were beaten at home by Arsenal quite easily. We were beaten away by the champions quite easily.

ShabbaRanks · Post by **ShabbaRanks** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:58 pm

It's the same gameplan it's been for Almost the last 4 years which has seen us win 2 promotions against the odds and narrowly relegated from the PL.

His framework and gameplan are immune from the dick witted musings of plebeians such as yourself.

We have stepped up a level, and our squad of largely top end championship players have, believe it or not, shown up to be largely top end championship players.

He needs further support in the transfer market.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:00 pm

He needs help with his tactics more like.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:00 pm

Plan C anybody ?

ShabbaRanks · Post by **ShabbaRanks** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:00 pm

You mean the tactics that saw us go a record breaking 23 undefeated last season?

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:01 pm

And, in the meantime, we have to rip into teams like Watford and anybody else that we can feasibly expect to take on on reasonably equal terms.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:01 pm

ShabbaRanks wrote:It's the same gameplan it's been for Almost the last 4 years which has seen us win 2 promotions against the odds and narrowly relegated from the PL.

His framework and gameplan are immune from the dick witted musings of plebeians such as yourself.

We have stepped up a level, and our squad of largely top end championship players have, believe it or not, shown up to be largely top end championship players.

He needs further support in the transfer market.

B*llocks, the lack of creativity is down to tactics and framework. How can you expect anything other than a pasting when you turn up to play like San Marino and set up to not get pasted? Park the bus and then what?

Rightfoot · Post by **Rightfoot** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:02 pm

Murger wrote:He needs help with his tactics more like.

Tactics dont win football matches, football players do and unfortunately we dont have the quality that the champions have

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:04 pm

In answer to KRBFC, park the bus, nick a goal and take the points. Don't forget Leicester were devastating on the break last year - I can't blame Dyche for trying safety first today.
If we'd been charging forward and leaking even more goals, you'd be the first **** to complain about our silly gung-ho style of play and sniping how reckless Dyche was.

ShabbaRanks · Post by **ShabbaRanks** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:06 pm

Here is a list of players that history has shown us do not have the required standard to perform consistently in the Premier League:

Ward
Mee
Lowton
Arfield
Boyd
Marney
Vokes

Here is a list of players that the jury is still out on:

Gray
Defour
Hendrick
JBG

Sean Dyche has to find a way to get these players performing above their level, and if you say that he is not doing that then it says more about you than it does about him.

He needs money to improve on the players he has.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:06 pm

Rightfoot wrote:Tactics dont win football matches, football players do and unfortunately we dont have the quality that the champions have

Goals win games, Im not sure how you expect to score goals by surrendering possession and territory. If you set up to put 10 men in your own final third of the pitch and 1 upfront then the you're unlikely to cause any problems.

claret3561 · Post by **claret3561** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:07 pm

Playing 5 in midfield we maybe should have given bamford a start up front as he has the ability to hold up the ball and allow the midfield to get up and support him which gray couldn't do. Ah well onwards and upwards UTC

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:07 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:In answer to KRBFC, park the bus, nick a goal and take the points. Don't forget Leicester were devastating on the break last year - I can't blame Dyche for trying safety first today.
If we'd been charging forward and leaking even more goals, you'd be the first **** to complain about our silly gung-ho style of play and sniping how reckless Dyche was.

Ok, forget today what about at home against Hull and Swansea?

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:08 pm

KRBFC is perfectly right to air his views.

It's possible to not like the style of play that your team plays whilst also wanting your team to do well.

Unfortunately I can't think of a manager (who would realistically manage Burnley) achieving what Sean has achieved.

When/If we get relegated this season, perhaps KRBFC will get his wish and we'll get a different manager and play football he like's to see, but I suspect it wouldn't be as successful.

ewanrob · Post by **ewanrob** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:11 pm

Don't mind getting beat at all...If we are playing decent football. But our play is terrible; let's not concede and hope we snatch one tatics.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:11 pm

ShabbaRanks wrote:Here is a list of players that history has shown us do not have the required standard to perform consistently in the Premier League:

Ward
Mee
Lowton
Arfield
Boyd
Marney
Vokes

Here is a list of players that the jury is still out on:

Gray
Defour
Hendrick
JBG

Sean Dyche has to find a way to get these players performing above their level, and if you say that he is not doing that then it says more about you than it does about him.

He needs money to improve on the players he has.

Yeah and Owen Coyle had a bunch of sh**e players too, but they had a rocket up their arse and over performed and went at teams (to our downfall away from home) if you think this set of players is over achieving then you're simply delusional and its pointless us having this debate.

bartons baggage · Post by **bartons baggage** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:11 pm

Boyd,s creativity is being stifled by a defensive system,i haven,t seen the game today but i'll bet my mortgage Mahrez didn't do much in his own half.

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:12 pm

TBH he changed the formation today. I've not watched the game but just seen the highlights - best chance created until the free kick they scored from was the one defour missed. If we'd held to 0-0 at halftime it's a good call on tactics.

We are lacking in creativity that's true but we have the ability to turn over sides around us as Defour and Hendrick get more integrated.

I'm surprised we didn't use Vokes as the point man in a 4-5-1 but there's not much else I'd call Dyche on. He tried to get in a wide player with pace/guile and both our options feel through so we have to go with what we have. So far JBG isn't showing any more capability that Arfield so we're kind of stuck. Bottom line is that we don't have the real quality where we need it so hopefully we can stay in touch (or keep above the bottom 3 and bring that to the side in January.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:13 pm

Surrendering possession ? Im sure the stats were something like 60-40, teams have won with far less than that.
Just accept that, at the moment, we are not as good as the Prem's leading teams however we decide to set up. We'll lose far more than we win against those team so we have to scrap for our lives against the others.
It's fine margins but we were worth a point against the Swans and managed to chuck two away against Hull. With those three points, we'd not even be having this debate, would we ?
As it is, the approach to the Watford match will be very interesting indeed.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:15 pm

KRBFC wrote:Does anyone have any idea? Call it 442 451 or whatever you want its effectively a 9-0-1 and a big hoof to the isolated front man. 8 shots on target in 5 games. Painful to watch my club play this way.

Now you can say "oh well we played the Champions" but it was the same dire stuff last season and every game this season.

You can question "Dyche is doing the best with resources he has" but I then put forward Hull and Phelan, a side we finished above last season who haven't strengthened significantly they are minus crucial players like Mcgregor Dawson Diame Odubajo (4 guaranteed starters for them last season). Hull look an awful lot better than us, brave on the ball no fear and creating chances.

Awful no other words to put it, scared to push the team up the pitch, scared to pass forward scared to do anything other than park the bus and hoof it to nobody.
Zieler was sunbathing today on a deck chair

He's a superb manager in the championship, he's falling flat big time second time round in the premier league.
Tactically inept at this level, very very boring to watch its borderline embarrassing but his hands are tied attacking wise because we've three poor wingers that are all defense minded.
Needed pace last time and still need it he's not solved that problem in three seasons.
Least we don't need to worry about other premier league clubs poaching him because I doubt any would go near him unless we massively improve

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:16 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:TBH he changed the formation today. I've not watched the game but just seen the highlights - best chance created until the free kick they scored from was the one defour missed. If we'd held to 0-0 at halftime it's a good call on tactics.

We are lacking in creativity that's true but we have the ability to turn over sides around us as Defour and Hendrick get more integrated.

I'm surprised we didn't use Vokes as the point man in a 4-5-1 but there's not much else I'd call Dyche on. He tried to get in a wide player with pace/guile and both our options feel through so we have to go with what we have. So far JBG isn't showing any more capability that Arfield so we're kind of stuck. Bottom line is that we don't have the real quality where we need it so hopefully we can stay in touch (or keep above the bottom 3 and bring that to the side in January.

The problem is the wide players in the system pick the ball up in their own half, what are they supposed to do? Run the length of the pitch with no support to put in a single cross to just Gray?
Park the bus but expect wide players to create something from their own half? Christ we really are fooked

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:16 pm

It's dyches team now no excuses. He has moulded it exactly how he wants to play. He wants runners rather than creativity. Pulis would be getting slaughtered in this situation.
We need a clean sweep in January and get shut of the players not good enough. Maybe even Dyche if he can't adapt.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:16 pm

So far we can compare ourselves to 5 teams.

Chelsea and Leicester much better than us.

Swansea and Hull slightly better than us but only marginally

Liverpool - were missing Mane, but on the day were worse than us.

Let's play the other 14 teams and then we can assess things.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:19 pm

Caernarfon_Claret wrote:So far we can compare ourselves to 5 teams.

Chelsea and Leicester much better than us.

Swansea and Hull slightly better than us but only marginally

Liverpool - were missing Mane, but on the day were worse than us.

Let's play the other 14 teams and then we can assess things.

Hull and Swansea at home are games we need to win. We were a million miles away from both these teams tactically and quality wise which is very very worrying.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:21 pm

Maybe you are "fooked", KRBFC but the rest of us seem to be a little more interested in taking a wider view and not just piling on criticism after criticism (a pretty pointless exercise today, to be honest).
Still, if it makes you happy.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:24 pm

Absolutely pointless using last season as a reference for this one. 23 undefeated is a thing of the past. Fact is we haven't created enough and have looked far too shaky defending attacks down the wing. The second half performance today was one of the worst I've seen in a long time - regardless of whether or not Leicester are champions.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:24 pm

A million miles away ? Nonsense - Swansea did us late on without really deserving it and Hull were seconds away from being beaten.
I'm not worried about being thrashed away by the champions. We do need to perform against Watford, I'll give you that.

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:26 pm

bumba wrote:Hull and Swansea at home are games we need to win. We were a million miles away from both these teams tactically and quality wise which is very very worrying.

********. utter ********. Fine margins not million miles. In both games Heaton's hardly had a difficult save to make. Seconds away from beating Hull. Two brilliant saves away from a point against Swnasea

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:28 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:A million miles away ? Nonsense - Swansea did us late on without really deserving it and Hull were seconds away from being beaten.
I'm not worried about being thrashed away by the champions. We do need to perform against Watford, I'll give you that.

On the balance of play we didn't deserve anything from either of those games though. The champions who had 4 points before today, good side yeah, we made them look like Barca.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:30 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:********. utter ********. Fine margins not million miles. In both games Heaton's hardly had a difficult save to make. Seconds away from beating Hull. Two brilliant saves away from a point against Swnasea

We have had 8 shots on target in 5 games. Hull hit the woodwork twice, Diomande missed a sitter I would have scored myself and created other chances. We had 1 shot and couldn't leave our own half, a million miles away when you consider we were at home.

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:32 pm

KRBFC wrote:On the balance of play we didn't deserve anything from either of those games though. The champions who had 4 points before today, good side yeah, we made them look like Barca.

Not really. They had 14 shots to our 7 and 61-49 possession - that' hardly a battering. They also had a player making a debut who's cost more than half our team. Added to Vardy and Mahrez - both streets ahead of our forwards/wide men. no wonder they won.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:33 pm

still ended up playing 4411 with Defour looking lost playing behind gray, the problem we have is our full backs aren't good enough defensively so our wide men have to double up to help them and nulify us as an attacking threat.

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:36 pm

claretandy wrote:still ended up playing 4411 with Defour looking lost playing behind gray, the problem we have is our full backs aren't good enough defensively so our wide men have to double up to help them and nulify us as an attacking threat.

That's probably close to the truth although I think there's really only Boyd out of our wide players who could conceivable be a regular threat going forward at this level in any case.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:36 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:Not really. They had 14 shots to our 7 and 61-49 possession - that' hardly a battering. They also had a player making a debut who's cost more than half our team. Added to Vardy and Mahrez - both streets ahead of our forwards/wide men. no wonder they won.

You clearly didn't watch the game so I have no idea why you're using stats to back up your argument. It was an absolute hammering, there is simply no other argument to be made. The problem isn't just todays game.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:39 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:It's dyches team now no excuses. He has moulded it exactly how he wants to play. He wants runners rather than creativity. Pulis would be getting slaughtered in this situation.
We need a clean sweep in January and get shut of the players not good enough. Maybe even Dyche if he can't adapt.

That last sentence wins today's award for the biggest overreaction. Congratulations!

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:40 pm

KRBFC wrote:You clearly didn't watch the game so I have no idea why you're using stats to back up your argument. It was an absolute hammering, there is simply no other argument to be made. The problem isn't just todays game.

You're right, I didn't. but got back in time to see stats and the highlights. We clearly didn't create much it''s true but first half neither did they - Defour's was the best chance. I expected to be seeing 20+ attempts from Leicester and more like 65-35 possession from all the "Burnley were really ****" stuff.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:43 pm

ShabbaRanks wrote:Here is a list of players that history has shown us do not have the required standard to perform consistently in the Premier League:

Ward
Mee
Lowton
Arfield
Boyd
Marney
Vokes

Here is a list of players that the jury is still out on:

Gray
Defour
Hendrick
JBG

Sean Dyche has to find a way to get these players performing above their level, and if you say that he is not doing that then it says more about you than it does about him.

He needs money to improve on the players he has.

Bait has been cast with that one...

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:46 pm

So far this season I have been shocked at the result against Liverpool and pretty much expected every other result. Swansea are not a similar level to us, they are established and it showed. Hull are in our mix but come on, most times we have played them in the past 4 or 5 years it's been back foot and breakaway and although we have had the majority of points, the plaudits are about even.

We will struggle this season, possibly more so than previously. The teams below and around us possess the ability to inject some pace into their game. Even though we play lovely football on the deck, it's limited to short bursts before the hoof returns.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:47 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:You're right, I didn't. but got back in time to see stats and the highlights. We clearly didn't create much it''s true but first half neither did they - Defour's was the best chance. I expected to be seeing 20+ attempts from Leicester and more like 65-35 possession from all the "Burnley were really ****" stuff.

So you're forming an opinion on how we performed having not even watched us perform

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:50 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:********. utter ********. Fine margins not million miles. In both games Heaton's hardly had a difficult save to make. Seconds away from beating Hull. Two brilliant saves away from a point against Swnasea

Hull dominated the game and hit the woodwork twice, we created nothing.
Swansea controlled the game and had chances to win comfortably.
Were slow and a million miles away quality wise

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:51 pm

On a positive note Dyche won't be head hunted.

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:51 pm

Depends on your opinion on what constitutes being battered KBRC. It's a disappointing result and doubly so given we've created v little. But I'm sorry 7 attempts on target and 7 off isn't being battered in my book.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:54 pm

haven't seen the stats yet but we can't have had 7 shots on target , no way

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:55 pm

We definitely weren't battered. We conceded a very cheap goal either side of half time and found ourselves 2-0 down despite matching Leicester up to that point. From then on we were dominated, as you'd expect from the Champions when 2-0 up.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:01 pm

I haven't seen either the match or highlights, but playing Gray up front on his own is daft.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:02 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:Depends on your opinion on what constitutes being battered KBRC. It's a disappointing result and doubly so given we've created v little. But I'm sorry 7 attempts on target and 7 off isn't being battered in my book.

Watch the game and form your own opinion. We had 1 shot on target off the top of my head, your stats are fabricated. You're making up stats to argue

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:05 pm

7 shots, 2 on target and about 40% possession according to the stats I've got.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:06 pm

In the first half I thought Gray actually did OK as a target man. My issue is the quality of balls into our forwards, be it Gray or Vokes. Too many players simply think that smashing the ball forward in the general direction of our front line will suffice. I don't mind direct football but at least have a bit of care with the forward pass.

The standard of our long passing so far this season has been absolutely diabolical. We used to drop the ball into Vokes' chest or play Gray into a channel which is direct but effective. The last few games has seen most of the side lashing the ball forward with no thought or accuracy. The main culprits being the full-backs, Arfield and Boyd.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:08 pm

Sidney1st wrote:7 shots, 2 on target and about 40% possession according to the stats I've got.

That's more accurate I forgot Gudmundssons 45 yard freekick that hit the wall was a shot on target.