After five games, what have we learnt to date?

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:31 pm

One thing about Burnley and one thing about another club in an around us...

Burnley
Conceding goals in the last five minutes of each half is looking a little concerning.

Swansea
Despite a scrappy win at Turf Moor, where apart from a Jack Cork chance, they offered little, I've not seen anything yet from Swansea to suggest that they'll survive.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:33 pm

Sunderland - in for another long season and I don't think Moyes will be there for the end of it.

Burnley - haven't seen much of us, but from the sounds of it our main issues are the flanks.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:34 pm

Man City

Frighteningly good

Sunderland

Defensively poor

Stoke

Not sure what's happening there

Agree with you re Swansea. They will struggle.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:47 pm

Burnley - Still don't have the players to really compete at this level. Manager and players not being brave enough to do something different in games.

Burnley fans - As good as ever

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:49 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Burnley - Still don't have the players to really compete at this level. Manager and players not being brave enough to do something different in games.

Burnley fans - As good as ever at being fickle.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:50 pm

There's always one (or two) who doesn't read the original question.

Burnley - Need to create more chances and score more goals.

Bournemouth - Concede too many and will struggle.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:51 pm

Stoke are leaking goals like a sieve so I think they will go down.

One thing learned about us - Defensively we look good - yesterday more than half of Leicester's chances came from set pieces, we had almost as many in open play, so stopping set pieces would appear the one crucial improvement needed defensively.

Edit - yes I got sucked into reading recent posts not the opening post so I also didn't read the question

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:56 pm

Saxoman wrote:I'm an arse

Unlike you some of us actually go to football matches, which is what I was referring to.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:56 pm

Burnley - just like last time we're taking a while to find our feet at PL level, putting the shape of the team above our attacking fluency. Suspect when we find our best team, possibly with Hendrick wide right and Bamford up front with Vokes, we'll go on a good little run.

Middlesbrough - going down.

iluva64 · Post by **iluva64** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:58 pm

That BR have 5 points after 8 games

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:59 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Unlike you some of us actually go to football matches, which is what I was referring to.

If Burnley had venkys, would you go?

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:00 pm

I agree with that "flanks" comment. Hate to say it, but Scotty Arfield is out of his depth at this level. I think that George Boyd is done, too. Lowton real;ly struggled Saturday, although I think that Leicester have made a marvellous signing. Ward I would keep for now, although if you want to send a scout over to look at a left back, I would recommend Marcel de Jong of the Vancouver Whitecaps. I guarantee that he will be playing at a higher level next year.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:01 pm

1) it's going to be a long hard season for Burnley

2) the gulf between teams is getting bigger - hardly a big surprise when the likes of West Brom, Crystal Palace and Leicester are signing £30m players

3) Sunderland are in for another relegation battle and Moyes does not have Big Sam's track record in keeping poor teams up.

4) We are in a relegation fight with probably 5 or 6 other clubs - Swansea, Sunderland, Hull, Boro, West Brom, and Bournmouth (and maybe one other "surprise" club like Stoke or Palace)

5) Whatever the outcome of this season and however tough things get these are really good times for Burnley and even if we go down we are still likely to be in a division higher than Blackburn and £200m better off......happy days !

ShabbaRanks · Post by **ShabbaRanks** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:02 pm

That some of our fans think Dyche should be on his bike.

******* Jesus christ

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:04 pm

I also wish that Tom Heaton would take greater command of his goal crease. That first goal was dying for a punch from the keeper.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:05 pm

Dyke out!

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:07 pm

You also just play Andre by himself as a front runner. He's a great finisher, but generally poor when he's on the ball.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:08 pm

Saxoman wrote:If Burnley had venkys, would you go?

We wouldn't have them though because we aren't a bunch of needy ba*tards.

If we did have them I'm pretty sure we'd have done a better job of trying to oust them.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:08 pm

Burnley Some good signs, some worrying. If we adapt and get better like we did last time (avoiding a start as horrendous) we should have accrued enough nous by the end of the season to see us through.

Blackburn They're screwed.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:08 pm

That's "can't play Andre as a front runner".

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:09 pm

jdrobbo wrote:One thing about Burnley and one thing about another club in an around us...

My mistake - I've done it geographically.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:10 pm

Saxoman out.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:13 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:We wouldn't have them though because we aren't a bunch of needy ba*tards.

If we did have them I'm pretty sure we'd have done a better job of trying to oust them.

Yea because Burnley fans are oh so superior to everyone elses, right nelstan? Zzzzz.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:18 pm

Saxoman wrote:Yea because Burnley fans are oh so superior to everyone elses, right nelstan? Zzzzz.

Yes we are, now you're getting it.

If you're tired then go to bed.

John Johnson 1605 · Post by **John Johnson 1605** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:30 pm

We have learnt that

Sean Dyche must be offered a 10 year contract. Professional relationships with Joey Barton just one example of his superb man management. where most failed he brought out the best.

That I can't decide whether my head or heart rules in the potential resigning of Barton.

That Aiden O' Neill is going to be one hell of a prospect.

That Defour, even in the current market represents fabulous value.

That Hendricks does not.

That Gary Neville is a spoilt prima donna.

That the Premier League is overated, over hyped and largely dull.

That Michael Keane will captain England.

That Andre Gray is a simply a product of his class.

That Accrington Clarets set off terribly early to games.

That the failure to beat Hull and Swansea will probably see us relegated.

That we should be relieved that our club has not been sold to foreign "Vanity owners."

That the Crooked Billet is a superb pre and post match venue.

That Brian Moore should be ashamed of himself.

That Gary Lineker is the vainest man this side of Warren Beaty.

That Adrian Durham will always be an arsehole.

That half and half scarves encompass the killing of passion.

That Sky charge too much for their sport packages.

That fanzines have had their day.

That pudding and chips from the Park View tastes better at night.

That Accrington Stanley are a fantastic club.

That despite a number of arseholes this website can be superb.

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:19 pm

What we've learnt is that we appear to have learnt very little from last time in the Premier League. Only one inevitable conclusion, unfortunately.

levraiclaret · Post by **levraiclaret** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:38 pm

We have learned that however well you have performed in the Championship, the Premier League is a challenge.
We have learned that the absence of pace out wide will be critical in our attempts to open up PL defences.
We have learned that there are four other teams in the same or worse predicaments.

billyhamilton82 · Post by **billyhamilton82** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:00 pm

We have learned that :

1. We need to be braver on the ball and believe in ourselves when in possession.

2. We lack pace and creativity on the flanks and as such :

a). Darikwa needs to be tried on the wing. Nothing to lose. If it comes off massive bonus.

b) We should push the boat out to sign Sessegnon.

c) We should enquire as to whether Tripper would be available to buy back in January.

3) Those Blackburn Rovers fans that believe they can rid their club of The Venkys are in denial. Their club are fully reliant on the Indians and their partners in crime from Glasgow. (No pun intended)

a) Blackburn Rovers are following the route that was predicted by so many but the speed of their demise is shocking to almost everyone except the laundering crew who are asset stripping to their hearts desire.

b) i have also learned that Blackburn Rovers fans are feeling sorry for themselves when they have bet the ranch on some chicken farmers (yes I know you couldn't write it) but it does prove the theory that going back to the mid 80's before Jack came in Rovers only actually have fan base of around 6,000. The rest including the closet Claret on this thread are plastics who hide behind a falsehood of ridiculously hypocritical ethics that show them up for who they really are.

c) When league one arrives they will be back where they started when Jack came in 30 years previous with a mediocre side being watched by a less than quarter filled stadium but this time its only a stop off before they drop again.

d) For any Burnley fans wishing for a wealthy owner we should always look at our greedy neighbours and sit back in quiet contemplation and study the current league tables.

No Ney Never · Post by **No Ney Never** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:22 pm

We have learned that in 14/15 after 5 games played we had a GD -3 and 3 pts. This season after 5 games we have a GD -5 and 4 pts. In 2014/15 we were in 17th place, 2016/17 we're 16th.

In summary, we are one point better off and one place higher than the last time we were in the premier league.

We finished the 14/15 season 5 points short of survival. If this season we gain one point more for every 5 games played, we may possibly survive relegation by at least 2 points.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:37 pm

We are physically very fit.

We cannot pass for toffee.

We are lacking players who will run forward at defences from midfield.

We cannot take throw ins.

Andre cannot understand the offside rule.

The big screen is at the wrong angle.

The hot dogs taste like s****e

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:42 am

We've learnt that it's more efficient to isolate only one player 50 yards away up front instead of two poor buggers

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:06 am

man city will win the league by at least a 15 point margin

we better have an insanely good January window

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:40 am

that there's no point signing new players if you aren't going to play them "out of loyalty"

File under Flanagan, Chalobah, Bamford, Darikwa etc etc

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:19 am

1.That when we win fans sing from the rooftops "we will stay up easily" however when we lose, half the team needs replacing as well as the manager.

2.Many "fans" seem to take far more interest in bigging up other teams players rather than our own.

3.Owen Coyle is manager of the season so far.

4.I don't like odd numbers.

CFS · Post by **CFS** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:56 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Stoke are leaking goals like a sieve so I think they will go down.

One thing learned about us - Defensively we look good - yesterday more than half of Leicester's chances came from set pieces, we had almost as many in open play, so stopping set pieces would appear the one crucial improvement needed defensively.

Edit - yes I got sucked into reading recent posts not the opening post so I also didn't read the question

Just so you know we've conceded 6 in 2 away games thats hardly shutting up shop and playing hard to beat.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:30 am

I hope that we've learnt to be a little braver as our formation is hampering our chances of scoring a goal or two. We can't just surrender possession to the opposition every week at this level because we'll come out on the losing end a whole lot more than we will the winning end!!

Whether we play 442 or 451 we need to close that gap between the midfield and the attack. I noticed it last week against Hull; you couldn't fail to notice it! We can't just sit our entire midfield 5 yards in front of the defence and hope it works. It means we can never break out. It's all the more annoying when you play 451 like that.

The idea of a 451 is to make you compact without the ball but allows freedom for the wingers when you do have the ball. Unfortunately for us we pretty much end up playing a flat back 9 as we never take the shackles off the wingers and it's choking us.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:49 am

We have learned nothing from the two previous promotions .

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:34 am

We were robbed (Swansea)

Our defence is Premier League (Liverpool)

We met very good opposition at The Bridge

We made a wrong decision (Hull)

We met the current Champions of England on their own midden (Leicester)

We know who we need to take points from... Chelsea and Leicester (Away) represent a bridge too far at present

The gulf between Championship and Premier League is huge. We need to accept that and not react so gloomily when we get beat.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:37 am

Burnley - that a lack of pace through the side, but especially in wide areas, is a huge achilles heel.

West Ham - a major change of home environment, going from an intimate ground to a vast bowl, takes a hell of a lot of getting used to.

If the one about Burnley is so blindingly obvious and so well trailed in advance of the season that it doesn't really class as something we've learned over the first 5 games, I'd offer this alternative:

Burnley - the Vokes/Gray forward line may well be too rigid for the Premier League and may well not have a future at this level.

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:43 am

Interesting to see so much confidence that Swansea are going to struggle when they beat us at the Turf.

I don't think we've learned that much about Burnley yet, apart from Steven Defour is a class act and a level above the rest of our team, while our summer recruitment is likely to have let us down as we have not added the required pace in attack. I understand the reasons for pulling out of the Grosicki deal given what has been reported, but a player of his ilk might well have made the difference.

Unless we can provide better service to Gray, we aren't going to score enough goals and we will be relegated again.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:58 am

Burnley - the lack of pace in wide areas is killing us again. I also think tactically, Dyche still has a bit to learn at this level. There's time yet though.

Man City - Guardiola once again showing that Mourinho is nowhere near him in terms of management. They should and probably will run away with the league.

Stoke - Inexplicably bad start to the season. Conceding 4 goals to City and Spurs is one thing, but conceding 4 at Palace should be a sackable offence for Hughes.

WBA - I still hate them and Tony Pulis.

Sunderland - look doomed, again. I think the Man Utd experience inflicted irrepairable damage to Moyes. I think he's finished as a manager.

Everton - looking very good under the excellent Ronald Koeman.

Rooney - Should be force into retirement both internationally and domestically. Painful to watch.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:02 am

Burnley - We are playing exactly the same way we did last time and haven't learned from previous experiences.

Everton - have added so much pace and strength to their side they can play old concrete boots Gareth Barry and not get swamped in midfield.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:07 am

I'd wait till a bit longer before making definite conclusions but one thing is pretty clear, spending eye watering sums of money does not guarantee you anything.

Lack of pace is an issue for us, but we should be able to make a better fist of it than we have managed so far. I do hope that SD continues to tinker, as one thing is for sure, sticking to 4-4-2 with our current players isn't going to keep is up.

Maybe 5-3-2? 4-3-3? I've no idea, but we need to not play the players who are performing.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:12 am

Yes I must add I've also been very impressed with Everton. Ronald Koeman is an excellent manager and he'll strive in an environment like Everton. The fans will get right behind him and he could drive them onto a Champions League finish. Williams was an excellent replacement for Stones; he and Jagielka should form a good PL pairing. Coleman and Baines at full back are very good. Barry is still one of the best in his position, Gueye looks a snip at £7m (another one I said we should try for at the end of last season!!) and then they have talent to burn Deulofeu, Mirallas, Barkley, Lennon, Lukaku and Enner Valencia. Pace, power and flair through the whole forward line. They've built an impressive squad.

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:15 am

That the Premier League has always been about fine margins. A draw against Swansea and a win against Hull and this thread may not exist.

I do have concerns generally about the type of profile of player Dyche tends to pursue at this level though, and worry that if the team isn't learning lessons from last time out, then neither is he.

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:27 am

Its a massive step up from championship and we knew we needed to get pace out on the wings, we are far to rigid with no pace whip or zip its early days but we have to look at creating more and give Gray more service
Look at finding other ways to create more chances, five shots on target out of three games is very poor we need to go back to the drawing board and find a solution
Its no good siting in there hoping for a counter and inviting pressure every time out I also no we haven't had the rub of the green but to be caught out twice with virtually the last kick of the half is criminal gifting sides set pieces is what we did last time, I lost count of the amount of time we conceded from corners
To early to say what we have learned from our exploits last time but one thing for sure if we don't get our act together when Watford come calling performance levels will be well below my expectation
Theirs a good gap now to get the group groomed and get some hardwork in on the training ground and work out a few things I have faith in what we are about we just need to find ways of winning and seeing games out even if its ugly UTC

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:29 am

CFS wrote:Just so you know we've conceded 6 in 2 away games thats hardly shutting up shop and playing hard to beat.

I think you misread my post CFS. We are solid defensively generally, not conceding many in open play, but set pieces are a problem again, conceding too many shots at one end and not scoring any at the other. Not so much something I have learned, more something I knew already, which is that Mee and Keane don't bully the opposition when defending a set piece in the way John Terry or Robert Huth would, for example. If we can solve this, we may be fine, because contrary to general opinion only 9 teams have scored more in open play so far.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:33 am

That in hindsight switching the Liverpool game has made our start not as bad as would have been otherwise.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:38 am

We have re-learned the fact that the gulf between Prem and a standing start rise from the Championship is unbridgeable.
Luck must play a part in first and second season survival....are there 3 worse teams or teams where the wheels suddenly come off for no apparent reason?
New signings affect the squad adversely, when couple with the loss of key players, until they get bedded in.
One win makes a huge difference - it's ok to lose a couple and get a win.
One striker looks very lonely when play is not constructed, so the midfield get into position pass by pass and not one long ball, which gets eaten up.
There are teams worse than us...

9thMay1987 · Post by **9thMay1987** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:44 am

Burnley - need investment to stay at this level. We have 8 directors of which 5 are merely glorified supporters re finance.

The rest- to soon to say. Changes week on week. January's investment will decide.