Give me the Championship

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:16 am

Yes every club should aim to get and stay in the top tier, but sadly the disparity between clubs money wise is now so great that the Premier League has become for me at least a dead division, unexciting, tired and lacking real interest.

The Championship doesn't provide the best football,or the most skill, but it does have a reasonably competitive structure and therefore excitement, added to which more matches.

For me I'd be quite happy if the top 10 clubs floated off into Europe, something unlikely to happen now.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:28 am

No bites? : )

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:36 am

The whole league structure from top to bottom favours the wealthiest clubs. The Premier just happens to be the most affluent.

Big business rules the day unfortunately. Media and betting call the shots. If we aspire to be the best, or be amongst the best, we need to play at this level. No point settling for second best just because we look good. Playing championship football successfully is a short lived thing too. Its so easy to fall away as many recently decent sides have done. Burnley must try as hard as possible to stay in the top flight . No doubt about it.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:42 am

He's not so far wrong though. Frankly, I'd welcome a European "superleague" if it meant that the rest of the English football clubs were playing in a more even competition.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:05 am

Don't agree with the OP at all. The PL is the strongest and most competitive league in the world. We should try and stay in and other clubs should strive to get there.

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:49 am

'...Frankly, I'd welcome a European "superleague" if it meant that the rest of the English football clubs were playing in a more even competition...'

but I don't aspire to play against Stoke, WBA or Palace!

It's Arsenal ad Liverpool who I want to be in the same league as

...and our attendances this season reflect that too!

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:53 am

Can't agree at all with OP - I want Burnley to be competing, as best we can, in a league with the top teams in this country. I want the opportunity to see fantastic wins when they come, and we've already beaten both Manchester and both Liverpool clubs in the Premier League.

Do you remember the day in August when we beat Liverpool, a team otherwise unbeaten this season. On the same day, another East Lancashire team were playing Burton. I know which I want.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:05 am

There's an old saying in sport.

If you're the best player in the dressing room, you're in the wrong dressing room.

Play at the highest level you can.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:05 am

I missed it last night watching soccer special. If there were more Tuesday night games Id love the Prem League. That in itself would make the league far more competitive.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:13 am

Just goes to show that Bob Lord was right all along.

Look at the top 7 teams in the Premier League now versus the days before the abolition of the maximum wage. Where are the town teams like Wolves, Huddersfield, Ipswich, Bolton, Rovers, Preston, Luton, Blackpool etc...

What's the answer?

Keep plugging away and hope that "unusual" results like the one against Liverpool continue to happen. To give up and simply let the "Big Boys" float off into their own cesspool of corruption and megabucks, is not the answer... IMHO

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:39 am

RalphCoatesComb wrote:Just goes to show that Bob Lord was right all along.

Look at the top 7 teams in the Premier League now versus the days before the abolition of the maximum wage. Where are the town teams like Wolves, Huddersfield, Ipswich, Bolton, Rovers, Preston, Luton, Blackpool etc...

What's the answer?

Keep plugging away and hope that "unusual" results like the one against Liverpool continue to happen. To give up and simply let the "Big Boys" float off into their own cesspool of corruption and megabucks, is not the answer... IMHO

Was Bob Lord right about TV killing the game ?

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:42 am

"the disparity between clubs money wise is now so great"

We are on course to post one of the biggest profits in history of the game this season.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:47 am

"Was Bob Lord right about TV killing the game ?"

A very good question and one that crosses boundaries of ethics, economics, sociology, philosophy, religion and a few others "ologies" to boot

lovebeingaclaret · Post by **lovebeingaclaret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:47 am

This is like the proverbial turkey asking for Christmas. If Burnley weren't in the Premier how would abc get to watch them live?

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:50 am

lovebeingaclaret wrote:This is like the proverbial turkey asking for Christmas. If Burnley weren't in the Premier how would abc get to watch them live?

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:51 am

I'm alright with swapping between the two. The ground redevelopment and everything at Gawthorpe is all thanks to those Premier League Sky subscribers. Plus we get the odd famous victory thrown in - Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool. Then we go back to the championship which I enjoy too.

Obviously there's no guarantees we'll keep bouncing back so enjoy it while it's here. This is probably close to as good as it will get for us.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:52 am

Winstonswhite wrote:"the disparity between clubs money wise is now so great"

We are on course to post one of the biggest profits in history of the game this season.

You mean bigger than the Mighty Whites of Horwich ??

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:05 pm

There's no point being in football if you don't aspire to be the best.

Melbourneclaret · Post by **Melbourneclaret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:07 pm

'Give me the championship.' Seriously???? We're 14th in the greatest league in the world after fighting tooth and nail to get here and people seriously want to go back down.
How can it be a dead league and unexciting when Leicester won the division only a few months ago! Yes there is a disparity between the clubs but that's always been there. The influx of money could allow smaller clubs like us to actually close the gap if we recruit from abroad carefully where we can outcompete most European clubs on wages. Kante moving to Leicester is a great example -just £7 million.

biggles · Post by **biggles** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:32 pm

prem or boing, boing? tbh i'd prefer boing, boing. the prem money is most welcome but seeing us losing game after game [with the odd win and a few draws here and there] doesn't make me happy. we depend on our defensive tactics too much and stifle attacking, attractive football. the championship gives the team a chance to play football with an attack-minded formation. there are a lot of bigger clubs than us in the championship and it is, for us, a lot more of a competition. to me it's more satisfying to beat derby, rovers, pne, leeds, wednesday, brighton, bolton, wigan, huddersfield, boro, etc than lose to arsenal, chelsea, spurs etc.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:40 pm

NottsClaret wrote:I'm alright with swapping between the two. The ground redevelopment and everything at Gawthorpe is all thanks to those Premier League Sky subscribers. Plus we get the odd famous victory thrown in - Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool. Then we go back to the championship which I enjoy too.

Obviously there's no guarantees we'll keep bouncing back so enjoy it while it's here. This is probably close to as good as it will get for us.

Swansea have somehow managed it.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:45 pm

for those who think we will post a record profit, we would not make any money at all if we bought and paid the wages of a team capable of competing with the top 4.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:56 pm

i like a bit of both the championship and the premier league.

the championship is great because we're best at it.

the PL is great because its the top level and i'm racking up the times i've seen us play the uniteds, liverpool, arsenals etc in the league, which i never expected i'd see.

i do actually miss going to places like barnsley, preston etc on a cold midwinter's night under the lights.

nottsclaret has it right above - we can still push on a little bit but this is likely to be as good as it gets for us.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:59 pm

I like the Championship because we can afford to live there. I like the prem because it enables us to live in the Championship.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:59 pm

The premiership is spoiled by UEFA and FIFA.
Too many breaks for International friendlies. The ever expanding list of minnows added to the roll. I don't think it's wrong for countries to be allowed to compete in the World /European Competitions, but much like our league cup it needs seeding. Smaller countries should be playing their peers and competing to enter the knock out stages.
EUFA is the same. The loss of the EUFA Cup and replacing it with yet another meaningless league, nobody gives a **** about, not even the fans who's teams are entered into it, never mind the rest of us. The expanding of the Champions League to allow teams finishing as low as 4th/5th to enter is worse still. The League system benefits so few clubs, and has grown boring IMO. I'd much prefer a straight knock out as it used to be, and if Barca get Citeh first round so be it. It is so detrimental to the domestic leagues, with owners who know **** all about football claiming the league is too big, we play too many games. ********, go back to the international format of 20 years ago and the premier league would be ten times better, and far more fan friendly.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:00 pm

IanMcL wrote:I like the Championship because we can afford to live there. I like the prem because it enables us to live in the Championship.

That's about it, really.

thomaspaine · Post by **thomaspaine** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:07 pm

Swapping between the Premiership and the Championship is the way forward especially for clubs of our size.The proviso being that we are actually able to win back promotion after relegation from the top tier - many have tried and failed. Just look at that sad bunch down the road.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:19 pm

"for those who think we will post a record profit, we would not make any money at all if we bought and paid the wages of a team capable of competing with the top 4."

boatshed bill, In an ideal world Burnley should be aiming somewhere midway between the two, halving this season's profit to £30m and utilising the difference in additional wages to finish around 14th in the Prem.

As I said yesterday, there's little justification in posting a £60m profit.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:23 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:"for those who think we will post a record profit, we would not make any money at all if we bought and paid the wages of a team capable of competing with the top 4."

boatshed bill, In an ideal world Burnley should be aiming somewhere midway between the two, halving this season's profit to £30m and utilising the difference in additional wages to finish around 14th in the Prem.

As I said yesterday, there's little justification in posting a £60m profit.

How does that work if the 6-8 clubs we are in direct competition with all do the same. People need to move away from just spending makes things happen.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:28 pm

May I suggest that the OP chooses a Championship team then and goes and posts on their board.

He could witter on about how the first team should be flooded with youngsters and how their third centre half should be playing in midfield.

I've just looked who the 14th placed club is in the Championship and it's Barnsley. There you go, perfect.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:32 pm

"
How does that work if the 6-8 clubs we are in direct competition with all do the same."

No guarantees obviously dom, but you have to put yourselves in the race to have a chance to win it.

We all know about the direct correlation of wages and final league placing and our £35m wages this year will be less than half of the next lowest, thus pretty much guaranteeing relegation.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:35 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:There's no point being in football if you don't aspire to be the best.

Absolutely spot on

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:39 pm

So Hull will have a wage bill of £70m+ this season and should be looking at finishing 14th ?

Did Leicester really have a top 6 (nevermind winners) wage bill last season. Using that formula anything above 20th is a success, surely Sunderland are paying a lot more in wages than 2 points per 8 games.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:53 pm

"So Hull will have a wage bill of £70m+ this season and should be looking at finishing 14th ?"

Correct, or certainly beween 14th and 17th, and certainly more chance than us paying half that figure.

Justify to me the need to post a £60m profit at the expense of pushing out the boat slightly in an attempt to have a realistic chance of staying up.

If it fails we go down with a £30m profit (which is more than Man City will post and that in itself tells a story) with parachute payments to follow. It's all about showing some real intent to stay in the big league which is something we always fail to do.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:08 pm

You missed out the explanation for Leicester and Sunderland in regards wage and position.

It is hard to justify a profit that we won't know for some time yet, I have no idea how much we will spend in January but I take it this will count in your advanced detailed budget. The club have already shown they were willing to add Grosicki and Stephens to what we had already spent which would have taken spending to rough figures £35m+, with City posting just £30m profit (was it from a turnover of near £400m) they won something last season I presume ?

Hard to work out why Sheff Utd can't get out of League 1, I imagine they paid more last season than Burton did, and more than Scunthorpe are this season, like wise Chelsea only had a wage bill to enable them to finish mid table last season using this formula.

It is very easy to tell others what they should be doing with the money without knowing the full facts.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:11 pm

Yes, more than willing with Grosicki and Stephens, and, had the Grosicki deal collapsed earlier then I'm sure we'd have had another player in. I don't think we could have done much, if anything, more to get Stephens.

I must have missed this posting of a £60m profit - when did that happen?

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:22 pm

"You missed out the explanation for Leicester and Sunderland in regards wage and position."

Not claiming this to be an exact science but far more than an indication as to where we're likely to finish. Surely we all want the same here and Burnley to have a sustained run in the big league, especially with the current TV deal ending in '18/'19 and the potential for even greater benefits for staying there.

CumbrianClaret · Post by **CumbrianClaret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:46 pm

I prefer the Championship to the Premier League ; in fact I dislike the Premier League but I accept that we as a club need to do what we can within financial reason to try to be in that league . We could spend £60 mill but that wouldn't guarantee we'd avoid relegation and at best would possibly see us in the bottom 6 . It'll take more than 1 season to build a squad capable of possibly avoiding relegation and maybe a few seasons in the bottom 6/7 in my opinion so if that's considered success then patience is required . I don't have to like the league we play in by the way .

One of the things I dislike about the Premier League is all the hype and experts telling us how good the top teams are and basically that we need to spend a lot more to avoid relegation ; they may well be right on that score . Sky pundits getting things very wrong . We were told over the weekend that historically relegated teams don't go straight back to the Prem and they cited Hull City as the last to do it with no mention of us . Technically I suppose they were correct because Hull went up through the play offs but you get my drift , or maybe you don't .

However did anyone watch the Liverpool/ManUtd match the other night ? You know ,the one that's been hyped up for weeks . It was dire ; two sides who are in the biggest 5 in the Prem with players costing zillions ; Pogba at something like £100 mill and all Utd did was defend and play for a point . Just like when they played us Liverpool weren't good enough to break them down . With the talent on display it should have been an attack fest but it was nothing like and yet we have fans who complain about us and our football .

The Premier League is the best in the World ? I wouldn't like to see the worst as I've watched some shocking matches this season .

It's a real shame that the game we all love is now ALL ABOUT MONEY !

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:59 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Yes, more than willing with Grosicki and Stephens, and, had the Grosicki deal collapsed earlier then I'm sure we'd have had another player in. I don't think we could have done much, if anything, more to get Stephens.

I must have missed this posting of a £60m profit - when did that happen?

Obviously you'll have to wait over 12 months until you read this seasons accounts, as you well know. 60 million is a ball park figure.

As for Stephens, I don't agree that putting in a bid for your number one target then waiting 6 weeks to increase the bids is in any way "doing as much as you can" to close the deal. In fact it's downright amateurish.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:01 pm

Prem every single time, every day of the week and every universe.

Ask Celtic and Rangers. They'd abandon Scotland without a second thought
if they could get in the Prem.

Think the best we can be.

CumbrianClaret · Post by **CumbrianClaret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:07 pm

With respect Winstonewhte you don't know that was the case and neither do any of us .

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:23 pm

I'm just going off what Dale Stephens' agent had said.

In my eyes, it rings true because we asked Tark to down tools when Brentford weren't for giving him away. Unfortunately Brighton aren't Brentford and our bluff was called by their poker playing owner.

We were arrogant last time we were a premier league side when we thought all we had to do was flutter our lashes at Bryson and Lansbury and they'd come running. And in my opinion Garlick made the same mistakes again.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:28 pm

i think we'd all rather be in the premier league but would prefer it to be more like the championship.

CumbrianClaret · Post by **CumbrianClaret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:52 pm

Never heard that WW or that we asked Tarkowski to down tools and I don't believe the Tarkowski rumour if that's what it is but I could be totally wrong of course .

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:01 pm

I don't know how much profit we'll post, but it's all meaningless.
The board hasn't set out to post X amount of profit, it's just what they're left with when so many deals fall flat at the last minute. Nobody knows if they could have pushed the boat out a bit more, or if they had would they have been anymore successful.
For Kudos, and the money, which is the life boat for our club, we have to stay in the prem. For entertainment and pleasure I'd take the championship anyday. Not that the prem couldn't be improved with the right people at the helm.
It's time they stopped selecting bankers and solicitors to run a sport.

Erasmus · Post by **Erasmus** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:16 pm

The correlation between wages and position is 90%, so Leicester and Sunderland represent the 10%. No team of Burnley's size stays in the Premier League without a rich owner throwing money at them, and even then it is not guaranteed, as QPR found out.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:24 pm

Chelsea 10th Watford 13th was there really that little in these 2 wage bills ?

Villa (3 wins all season) smaller wage bill than Swansea ?

Newcastle smaller wage bill than Palace ?

CrispyClaret · Post by **CrispyClaret** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:12 pm

ablueclaret wrote:Yes every club should aim to get and stay in the top tier, but sadly the disparity between clubs money wise is now so great that the Premier League has become for me at least a dead division, unexciting, tired and lacking real interest.

The Championship doesn't provide the best football,or the most skill, but it does have a reasonably competitive structure and therefore excitement, added to which more matches.

For me I'd be quite happy if the top 10 clubs floated off into Europe, something unlikely to happen now.

If we were a Championship club right now, what would your aspirations be? Nearly get promoted every year? Mid table mediocrity with our final half dozen games being meaningless or a relegation scrap?
Poor old Burnley ruining your pleasure by ending up in a dead league. Personally I would like to see an incremental improvement each year with the initial goal being to stay up, followed by the carrot of European football at the end of a very long stick. Very long but I am willing to wait.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:51 pm

Winstonswhite wrote:As for Stephens, I don't agree that putting in a bid for your number one target then waiting 6 weeks to increase the bids is in any way "doing as much as you can" to close the deal. In fact it's downright amateurish.

If you think that's what we did - but that's far from what we did. I'll repeat, we could not have done more to sign him.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:43 pm

Going back to the OP. The Championship may not be the zenith of achievement, but at least there is the genuine possibility of a top 3 finish for many of the clubs in it. The EPL is no longer like that, the "global brands" get bigger and bigger, leaving the rest so far behind that it is no longer really a competition.
Don't get me wrong; I'm delighted for Burnley that we achieved promotion again, but at what costs? Entertainment? Gone, Optimism? No!! 8 games in and we are talking about relegation!