Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
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Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Kim Darroch the UK Ambassador to the US has resigned his post amid claims that Boris Johnson threw him under a bus.
I was wondering if this was a bus that Boris had made himself out of an old wine crate or as to whether it was the Vote Leave bus.
Boris Johnson is only concerned with his own personal ambition and there will be many casualties along the way.
I was wondering if this was a bus that Boris had made himself out of an old wine crate or as to whether it was the Vote Leave bus.
Boris Johnson is only concerned with his own personal ambition and there will be many casualties along the way.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
We know who Kim Darroch blames.
Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Was it the bus he used for his totally fabricated lies about 'spare' EU savings he will put to the NHS?
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Sad decision. Especially if, as the media are pushing, he jumped because Bojo didn’t back him last night.
He should have stayed in situ and forced Bojo to back him or sack him. Made him show what sort of leader he will be.
He should have stayed in situ and forced Bojo to back him or sack him. Made him show what sort of leader he will be.
Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
One who jumps when Donald says so, unfortunately.Tricky Trevor wrote:Sad decision. Especially if, as the media are pushing, he jumped because Bojo didn’t back him last night.
He should have stayed in situ and forced Bojo to back him or sack him. Made him show what sort of leader he will be.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
We expect that. And if the Conservative members elect him then clearly that's what they want.DCWat wrote:One who jumps when Donald says so, unfortunately.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Darroch should've kept his trap shut. Extremely poor diplomatic skills on show right from the start. Unless of course this was MEANT to play out this way...
The cynic in me thinks this has been a calculated decision by him. Probably gonna retire soon anyway, goes out with a bang and with his name on everyones lips. Book to follow, no doubt joining the Lords...
**** poor all round really.
The cynic in me thinks this has been a calculated decision by him. Probably gonna retire soon anyway, goes out with a bang and with his name on everyones lips. Book to follow, no doubt joining the Lords...
**** poor all round really.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Another one who clearly hasn't got a ******* clue has entered the discussion.bobinho wrote:Darroch should've kept his trap shut. Extremely poor diplomatic skills on show right from the start. Unless of course this was MEANT to play out this way...
The cynic in me thinks this has been a calculated decision by him. Probably gonna retire soon anyway, goes out with a bang and with his name on everyones lips. Book to follow, no doubt joining the Lords...
**** poor all round really.
UK FCO to UK Ambassador: What's your assessment of the President-elect?
UK Ambassador to UK FCO: I'm to keep my trap shut because an ignorant dipshit on the internet said so.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Not even sure that is a consideration, especially when seeing members questioned on their preference, on the news.Imploding Turtle wrote:We expect that. And if the Conservative members elect him then clearly that's what they want.
The responses I’ve heard tend to focus either on him being a bloody jolly chap or getting Brexit done.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
What’s he said? Is your theory that he deliberately phrased his reports in such a way that a couple of years later he could get someone to leak them to Farage’s pet journo in an attempt to put Bojo in a difficult position during the leadership contest?bobinho wrote:Darroch should've kept his trap shut. Extremely poor diplomatic skills on show right from the start. Unless of course this was MEANT to play out this way...
The cynic in me thinks this has been a calculated decision by him. Probably gonna retire soon anyway, goes out with a bang and with his name on everyones lips. Book to follow, no doubt joining the Lords...
**** poor all round really.
What’s the phrase - put your drink down and step away from the keyboard!
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Not so fast Turtles heed.....Imploding Turtle wrote:We know who Kim Darroch blames.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Spoiler alert....vapid troll has arrived.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
bobinho wrote:Spoiler alert....vapid troll has arrived.
Stop trying to make this thread all about you.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
The culprit is the person that leaked the comments. Let's have a think why someone would do that.
Interesting that arch remainer Alan Duncan.made a statement in the house saying there should not have been an unauthorised leak and then backtracked to say not a leak.
Interesting that arch remainer Alan Duncan.made a statement in the house saying there should not have been an unauthorised leak and then backtracked to say not a leak.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
What's he said? Really?Burnley Ace wrote:What’s he said? Is your theory that he deliberately phrased his reports in such a way that a couple of years later he could get someone to leak them to Farage’s pet journo in an attempt to put Bojo in a difficult position during the leadership contest?
What’s the phrase - put your drink down and step away from the keyboard!
Did I say that's what my theory is? I explained my theory. At no point do I say it was meant to derail Bojo's PM bid. Personally, I don't really give a **** about it all, other than believing that a person in a diplomatic role shouldn't really be coming out with what he has. Think it by all means, seems a lot do, send the information back to the UK in a secure manner certainly, but to have it out there like this? It's all a bit `facebooky`.
What ******* phrase are you on about? You have just made a phrase up and passed it off as a well known one. You know you have done that right? And don't write your own theory, try to pass it off as mine and then judge me on it.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
I know you're trying to imply that it was a remainer who leaked, but if that was true then they wouldn't have leaked it to Oakeshott.summitclaret wrote:The culprit is the person that leaked the comments. Let's have a think why someone would do that.
Interesting that arch remainer Alan Duncan.made a statement in the house saying there should not have been an unauthorised leak and then backtracked to say not a leak.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Have you even bothered trying to understand what has actually gone on?bobinho wrote:What's he said? Really?
Did I say that's what my theory is? I explained my theory. At no point do I say it was meant to derail Bojo's PM bid. Personally, I don't really give a **** about it all, other than believing that a person in a diplomatic role shouldn't really be coming out with what he has. Think it by all means, seems a lot do, send the information back to the UK in a secure manner certainly, but to have it out there like this? It's all a bit `facebooky`.
What ******* phrase are you on about? You have just made a phrase up and passed it off as a well known one. You know you have done that right? And don't write your own theory, try to pass it off as mine and then judge me on it.
I'll help you out here before you get too intoxicated to understand.
In November 2016 Trump became President-elect. Later that month Kim Darroch reported back to the UK government that Trump was insecure, uniquely unsuitable for office, etc.
Three years later someone leaked that communique to Isabel Oakeshott, a journalist who is so far up Farage's arse that the only reason we know it's her is by taking her toe-prints
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
You wrote he should his trap shut so, given he hasn’t said anything today, what has he said?bobinho wrote:What's he said? Really?
Did I say that's what my theory is? I explained my theory. At no point do I say it was meant to derail Bojo's PM bid. Personally, I don't really give a **** about it all, other than believing that a person in a diplomatic role shouldn't really be coming out with what he has. Think it by all means, seems a lot do, send the information back to the UK in a secure manner certainly, but to have it out there like this? It's all a bit `facebooky`.
What ******* phrase are you on about? You have just made a phrase up and passed it off as a well known one. You know you have done that right? And don't write your own theory, try to pass it off as mine and then judge me on it.
As I said put your drink down because you atr to ****** to be writing on the internet- unless you are always so stupid?
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
"are too"
Kids, don't leave school early.
Kids, don't leave school early.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
No, that Bus is now in storage, having been earmarked for " Nationalisation " by the Labour party leadership, to send people to re-education camps if they don't vote for the " Magic Grandpa " !!IanMcL wrote:Was it the bus he used for his totally fabricated lies about 'spare' EU savings he will put to the NHS?
Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Darroch hasn't done anything wrong. He’s done his job as could be expected of him.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
You mean the party who would actually put you first, but the elite few?Clarets4me wrote:No, that Bus is now in storage, having been earmarked for " Nationalisation " by the Labour party leadership, to send people to re-education camps if they don't vote for the " Magic Grandpa " !!
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Oh dear the anti-Trump and BoJo brigade are at it again.
Whoever leaked the messages should be punished most severely. The Daily Mail should be made accountable for gross irresponsible journalism.
However Darroch had to go as he has quite conclusively and indisputably proven beyond all doubt that as the most senior diplomat he clearly has no diplomatic skills so clearly unfit therefor to be a diplomat. Whatever Donald Trump's shortcomings and whatever his administration is or is not capable of you cannot as a diplomat be so stupid as to use personal and abusive comments in the way he did. He should have alluded to the fact that the President and his administration may not conduct its affairs in the same way as previous Presidents or their administrations have but you should not call an allies President or his administration "inept", "Incompetent", "insecure" etc as he has done so. He clearly strayed way beyond diplomacy and instead allowed his personal vitriol to cloud his professional judgement. He acted totally unprofessionally and he had no other choice but to go.
Trump's response was childish and embarrassing but Darroch had to go. The motives as to why the leaks were made and by whom will become clear soon enough but a campaign against Brexit is likely to be the number one suspect.
Whoever leaked the messages should be punished most severely. The Daily Mail should be made accountable for gross irresponsible journalism.
However Darroch had to go as he has quite conclusively and indisputably proven beyond all doubt that as the most senior diplomat he clearly has no diplomatic skills so clearly unfit therefor to be a diplomat. Whatever Donald Trump's shortcomings and whatever his administration is or is not capable of you cannot as a diplomat be so stupid as to use personal and abusive comments in the way he did. He should have alluded to the fact that the President and his administration may not conduct its affairs in the same way as previous Presidents or their administrations have but you should not call an allies President or his administration "inept", "Incompetent", "insecure" etc as he has done so. He clearly strayed way beyond diplomacy and instead allowed his personal vitriol to cloud his professional judgement. He acted totally unprofessionally and he had no other choice but to go.
Trump's response was childish and embarrassing but Darroch had to go. The motives as to why the leaks were made and by whom will become clear soon enough but a campaign against Brexit is likely to be the number one suspect.
Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Its the distateful and very disrespectful language that this Diplomat used. I think.most people would be shocked by it. But he was, as it turns out, the wrong choice to go the USA as our representative. The Foreign Office was pretty obviously trying to sour the relationship with our biggest trading partner, with whom we have a surplus and our biggest ally.LaLigaClaret wrote:Oh dear the anti-Trump and BoJo brigade are at it again.
Whoever leaked the messages should be punished most severely. The Daily Mail should be made accountable for gross irresponsible journalism.
However Darroch had to go as he has quite conclusively and indisputably proven beyond all doubt that as the most senior diplomat he clearly has no diplomatic skills so clearly unfit therefor to be a diplomat. Whatever Donald Trump's shortcomings and whatever his administration is or is not capable of you cannot as a diplomat be so stupid as to use personal and abusive comments in the way he did. He should have alluded to the fact that the President and his administration may not conduct its affairs in the same way as previous Presidents or their administrations have but you should not call an allies President or his administration "inept", "Incompetent", "insecure" etc as he has done so. He clearly strayed way beyond diplomacy and instead allowed his personal vitriol to cloud his professional judgement. He acted totally unprofessionally and he had no other choice but to go.
Trump's response was childish and embarrassing but Darroch had to go. The motives as to why the leaks were made and by whom will become clear soon enough but a campaign against Brexit is likely to be the number one suspect.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
CluelessStayingup wrote:Its the distateful and very disrespectful language that this Diplomat used. I think.most people would be shocked by it. But he was, as it turns out, the wrong choice to go the USA as our representative. The Foreign Office was pretty obviously trying to sour the relationship with our biggest trading partner, with whom we have a surplus and our biggest ally.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
A senior diplomat is there to hold no punches in his reports to his Carinate boss. It is exactly what he should be reporting back if that is his opinion.... that is why WE put him there.Stayingup wrote:Its the distateful and very disrespectful language that this Diplomat used. I think.most people would be shocked by it. But he was, as it turns out, the wrong choice to go the USA as our representative. The Foreign Office was pretty obviously trying to sour the relationship with our biggest trading partner, with whom we have a surplus and our biggest ally.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Hi elwa, really? Don't you think we've all been spending too much time on "up the clarets" if we think that the way some users post on here is the same asour diplomats should be posting? (and, I guess, other "social media" forums are also available....).elwaclaret wrote:A senior diplomat is there to hold no punches in his reports to his Carinate boss. It is exactly what he should be reporting back if that is his opinion.... that is why WE put him there.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
I would love somebody to explain to me how Darroch could have carried on with his job even before Boris did or did not support him.
His position was totally untenable, and his “honesty” was actually stupidity and inaccuracy - e.g. is Trump’s administration “inept”? Their economy is booming. They have some wacky traits yes, but it strikes me that Darroch really meant that the administration is not to his liking rather than being inept. I’m not surprised Trump was offended.
The real story here is how Whitehall and many MPs are using this as a Bash Boris exercise - he clearly isn’t part of the establishment, which is a good thing. You can probably predict which characters are about to be sacked - Alan Duncan would be one of my guesses.
His position was totally untenable, and his “honesty” was actually stupidity and inaccuracy - e.g. is Trump’s administration “inept”? Their economy is booming. They have some wacky traits yes, but it strikes me that Darroch really meant that the administration is not to his liking rather than being inept. I’m not surprised Trump was offended.
The real story here is how Whitehall and many MPs are using this as a Bash Boris exercise - he clearly isn’t part of the establishment, which is a good thing. You can probably predict which characters are about to be sacked - Alan Duncan would be one of my guesses.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
No. Don't be stupid. His job is clearly to report back his opinion. As has been explained numerous times, he is not supposed to polish his language with us. Our government needs his candid assessments, not fluffy bullshit.Paul Waine wrote: Don't you think we've all been spending too much time on "up the clarets" if we think that the way some users post on here is the same asour diplomats should be posting? (and, I guess, other "social media" forums are also available....).
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
He couldn't. But not being supported by Boris sends an awful message to his successor that when it's a choice between Trump's feelings and an ambassador simply doing their job, Boris will choose to protect Trump's feelings.CrosspoolClarets wrote:I would love somebody to explain to me how Darroch could have carried on with his job even before Boris did or did not support him.
...
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Hi IT, do you really think that the way you post on here is the way that any country expects their diplomats to write?Imploding Turtle wrote:No. Don't be stupid. His job is clearly to report back his opinion. As has been explained numerous times, he is not supposed to polish his language with us. Our government needs his candid assessments, not fluffy bullshit.
Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
What Darroch wrote is nowhere near how anyone posts on here.Paul Waine wrote:Hi IT, do you really think that the way you post on here is the way that any country expects their diplomats to write?
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
How can you compare a message board to a highly encrypted secure internet connection used by an ambassador to send top security emails at cabinet level or higher?Paul Waine wrote:Hi IT, do you really think that the way you post on here is the way that any country expects their diplomats to write?
He's been in the foriegn service for 40 years and risen to the top and some of the posters here think he has no skills!!
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
He wasn't writing like I write on here. Nor was he writing publicly.Paul Waine wrote:Hi IT, do you really think that the way you post on here is the way that any country expects their diplomats to write?
Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
The US had a similar but more large scale thing happen with the Manning leaks, where US diplomatic opinions very scathing of various Middle Eastern and North African leaders were made public. Regarding Trump, it’s likely most other Western diplomats sent home similar reports.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
AndrewJB wrote:The US had a similar but more large scale thing happen with the Manning leaks, where US diplomatic opinions very scathing of various Middle Eastern and North African leaders were made public. Regarding Trump, it’s likely most other Western diplomats sent home similar reports.
Of course they did. They wouldn't be doing their jobs properly if they didn't give their candid assessment of the moron, including how corrupt and thin-skinned he is and how easy it is to manipulate him.
Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Do you think Darroch tweeted that Trump’s an insecure and inept nobhead, or put out a press release or something?bobinho wrote:What's he said? Really?
Did I say that's what my theory is? I explained my theory. At no point do I say it was meant to derail Bojo's PM bid. Personally, I don't really give a **** about it all, other than believing that a person in a diplomatic role shouldn't really be coming out with what he has. Think it by all means, seems a lot do, send the information back to the UK in a secure manner certainly, but to have it out there like this? It's all a bit `facebooky`.
What ******* phrase are you on about? You have just made a phrase up and passed it off as a well known one. You know you have done that right? And don't write your own theory, try to pass it off as mine and then judge me on it.
He did “send the information back to the UK in a secure manner”. Then someone leaked it to Oakeshott.
...and here’s Paul also implying that Darroch “posted” his opinion on some kind of public forum. The idiots are out in force tonight.Paul Waine wrote:Hi elwa, really? Don't you think we've all been spending too much time on "up the clarets" if we think that the way some users post on here is the same asour diplomats should be posting? (and, I guess, other "social media" forums are also available....).
Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Yeah that’s definitely Johnson’s defining characteristic - not being part of the establishment.CrosspoolClarets wrote:The real story here is how Whitehall and many MPs are using this as a Bash Boris exercise - he clearly isn’t part of the establishment, which is a good thing.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Its been some well needed light relief after the previous couple of days worth of tedious bickering on the transfer threads.Greenmile wrote: The idiots are out in force tonight.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Darroch wasn't talking about the economy though was he, he see's first hand the functioning of the White House and the many arms of US Government. How State dept talks to Treasury, does the head of Energy have a clue about energy. Does the proper chain of command function. etc etcCrosspoolClarets wrote: His position was totally untenable, and his “honesty” was actually stupidity and inaccuracy - e.g. is Trump’s administration “inept”? Their economy is booming. They have some wacky traits yes, but it strikes me that Darroch really meant that the administration is not to his liking rather than being inept.
You only have to watch an Episode of West Wing to see how complex a machine it is so it's not a surprise that it could be run ineptly by someone.
The story is who is leaking restricted information to the press and to what end.CrosspoolClarets wrote:The real story here is how Whitehall and many MPs are using this as a Bash Boris exercise - he clearly isn’t part of the establishment, which is a good thing.
But on a finally humorous note: Eton & Oxford graduate, son of former MP and World Bank employee (also Oxford grad), 350k a year millionaire, political columnist, former Mayor of London and Foreign Secretary... [breath]... is not part of the establishment
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Oh, come on my friend, Greenmile! I said that some were suggesting that he used language in his "diplomatic reports" that have since been leaked that follow the style of some posters on here.Greenmile wrote:Do you think Darroch tweeted that Trump’s an insecure and inept nobhead, or put out a press release or something?
He did “send the information back to the UK in a secure manner”. Then someone leaked it to Oakeshott.
...and here’s Paul also implying that Darroch “posted” his opinion on some kind of public forum. The idiots are out in force tonight.
As I've said, do we really expect our "highly trained, highly qualified, civil servants" to use the language that is commonly used to "wind people up" on "social" media?
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
You are right on this, Combat. We've all got to find humour in the divisions in what we would all have thought of as "the establishment."CombatClaret wrote:
But on a finally humorous note: Eton & Oxford graduate, son of former MP and World Bank employee (also Oxford grad), 350k a year millionaire, political columnist, former Mayor of London and Foreign Secretary... [breath]... is not part of the establishment
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Jesus wept. I used to think you were fairly smart.Paul Waine wrote:Oh, come on my friend, Greenmile! I said that some were suggesting that he used language in his "diplomatic reports" that have since been leaked that follow the style of some posters on here.
As I've said, do we really expect our "highly trained, highly qualified, civil servants" to use the language that is commonly used to "wind people up" on "social" media?
The guy didn't called Trump a "******* moron" or "spectacularly retarded" or anything like that. He used grown up words what adults use, init?
And as has been pointed out, ******* repeatedly, it was his ******* job to do exactly what he did.
Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
You suggested he “posted” his opinion, in the context of folk “posting” on here. It was a stupid thing for you to say.Paul Waine wrote:Oh, come on my friend, Greenmile! I said that some were suggesting that he used language in his "diplomatic reports" that have since been leaked that follow the style of some posters on here.
As I've said, do we really expect our "highly trained, highly qualified, civil servants" to use the language that is commonly used to "wind people up" on "social" media?
It shouldn’t matter what kind of language he used, as long as it was clear to the people he was reporting to (our govt). I expect him to be honest, and if Trump would find that upsetting, then so be it.
Let be fair here, calling the Trump administration inept and the man himself insecure is pretty diplomatic, given the reality of the situation. I’d have just reported that Trump’s a **** and leave it at that.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
I rest my case, your honor.Imploding Turtle wrote:Jesus wept. I used to think you were fairly smart.
The guy didn't called Trump a "******* moron" or "spectacularly retarded" or anything like that. He used grown up words what adults use, init?
And as has been pointed out, ******* repeatedly, it was his ******* job to do exactly what he did.
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
You haven't even read what he said, and yet you're so sure he was inappropriate.Paul Waine wrote:I rest my case, your honor.
Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
And what exactly is “your case”, Paul? That Darroch should have lied to his employers in a secure encrypted communication on the off-chance that someone might have leaked it and upset the snowflake president? Or that people sometimes swear on a messageboard and that upsets you?Paul Waine wrote:I rest my case, your honor.
Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
Crosspool has well and truly drunk the Boris kool-aid.Greenmile wrote:Yeah that’s definitely Johnson’s defining characteristic - not being part of the establishment.
This user liked this post: Greenmile
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Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
No but private emails to your superior are just that Paul. He didn’t make his comments public someone else did that for him. If he think that Trump is a clown and the Whitehouse is in turmoil, absolutely he should be referring that back and holding no punches.... it’s is a big part of why we keep ambassadors.Paul Waine wrote:Hi elwa, really? Don't you think we've all been spending too much time on "up the clarets" if we think that the way some users post on here is the same asour diplomats should be posting? (and, I guess, other "social media" forums are also available....).
Re: Kim Darroch resigns (politics)
What language is it, specifically, that ‘follows the style of some posters on here’?Paul Waine wrote:Oh, come on my friend, Greenmile! I said that some were suggesting that he used language in his "diplomatic reports" that have since been leaked that follow the style of some posters on here.
As I've said, do we really expect our "highly trained, highly qualified, civil servants" to use the language that is commonly used to "wind people up" on "social" media?