![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
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Like i said. Weak minds are easily twisted.Goalposts wrote:turtle the antifa mob give genuine antifascists a bad name
He got milkshaked recently, which is fine, I'm a big fan of milkshaking fascists. But he was also punished in the face, which isn't fine. I felt a little bit sorry for him until he lied about a brain hemorrhage.AndrewJB wrote:Some info on Andy Ngo: https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2019/0 ... scist.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Imploding Turtle wrote:Like i said. Weak minds are easily twisted.
You believe all the propaganda you want, goalposts. But my anti-fascism is not tarnished by the actions of thugs. If you think it is then that's a problem for you, not me.
Thor might.Imploding Turtle wrote:This looks really bad for the anti-fascists, doesn't it? Terrible behaviour. Right? One of them even had a hammer.Who, with peaceful intent, would bring a hammer to a protest?
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/11 ... 82785?s=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fascism and white supremacy are violent ideologies so i have no problem with people opposed to that ideology defending themselves. I will agree with you if you say you oppose the instigation of violence, but if fascists attack anti-fascists with a hammer and you complain that both sides are being violent because the anti-fascists defended themselves then you're not someone who is going to be taken seriously as an anti-fascist.Goalposts wrote:I dont have a problem with your leftist views turtle infact i'd defend your right to have them, but when those purporting to have leftist views use violence as antifa do then i'd oppose them, just as i do when extreme right wingers use violence under the same pretext. both of them have no credibility
Imploding Turtle wrote:Fascism and white supremacy are violent ideologies so i have no problem with people opposed to that ideology defending themselves. I will agree with you if you say you oppose the instigation of violence, but if fascists attack anti-fascists with a hammer and you complain that both sides are being violent because the anti-fascists defended themselves then you're not someone who is going to be taken seriously as an anti-fascist.
There are definitely some anti-fascists who instigate physical violence, but they're rare among anti-fascists and aren't supported (they might not even be anti-fascists). There are definitely some anti-fascists who attend these protests prepared to defend themselves, they're less rare but still a minority, but i've no problem with these people. Being prepared to defend yourself isn't the same as instigating violence. And then there's about 99% of anti-fascists who do things like hold signs, dress up as unicorns lor bananas, etc. These are just as much "antifa" as those who are prepared to defend themselves. So when you claim that "antifa" are thuggish, violent, etc then you're the one smearing everyone and you're the one giving every anti-fascist a bad name.
Imploding Turtle wrote:Like i said. Weak minds are easily twisted.
You believe all the propaganda you want.
There is no "antifa" group. Antifa isn't an organisation, it's a political position. It is nothing more than an abbreviation. You can't join Antifa, there are no membership requirements except that if you are anti-fascist then you are antifa.Goalposts wrote:well if i must i must...the left can be just as violent as the right, no one side is more to blame than the other.
your rarity claim is unsubstantiated i see more violence used by so called left leaning parties such as antifa and anti govt protesters than right wing groups currently. that doesnt mean it will always be the case.
with regards to your defence of going armed, that is very poor.. i wonder why the unicorn and sign protesters don't feel the need to go armed, i also think that those people would be aghast if you associated them with the antifa group as would most people.. you can protest peacefully,
Ive not smeared anyone other than to say that the antifa group are a disgrace, the people there protesting against fascism are many and varied . the Antifa group to me have another agenda, but if you cant see that, thats your issue , and if you vehemently believe that group is a non violent. well thats your , shall we say perception
I was interested in this story at the time but haven't followed up on it much since the event. Can you provide the source which provides the proof that Andy Ngo lied about his supposed brain haemorrhage please?Imploding Turtle wrote:He got milkshaked recently, which is fine, I'm a big fan of milkshaking fascists. But he was also punished in the face, which isn't fine. I felt a little bit sorry for him until he lied about a brain hemorrhage.
He's pretty pathetic. "Journalist" is a very kind title to give him. He's really just a fascist propagandist.
As opposed to a Lefty Propagandist or a middle ground propagandist ....... or a Brextiteer Propagandist to a Remoaner propagandistImploding Turtle wrote: He's really just a fascist propagandist.
Yes and unfortunately this lack of engaging with other peoples ideas is rife in our universities and public institutions. If you dont agree just shut down the discussuon. There is a cabal on here who post seemingly to please each other in a smug way. Bit the like BBC broadcasting to metropolitan elites. They see only one side of things. Example citing atrocities of what they call the Right or Facism but ignoring the greater atrocities commited by the likes of Stalin.Goalposts wrote:when you refer to weak minds, I have found through life that those so certain of there views, and cannot be moved from their absolute certainty of there beliefs and dogma, possess the weakest minds of all.
despite all there pseudo intellectual spouting's that masks there own inflexibility to be shifted one way or another........
I can think of a number of people that meet that criteria , and a number of them post on here, generally always about the same topic or theme
I cannot provide proof without his medical records, which is something he'll know, but you don't recover from a brain hemorrhage in 24 hours which he appears to have done. The average time off work, according to the NHS, is 3 months. This guy was on TV the next day talking about it.4:20 wrote:I was interested in this story at the time but haven't followed up on it much since the event. Can you provide the source which provides the proof that Andy Ngo lied about his supposed brain haemorrhage please?
You're making this up. I said it's not an organisation. If you have to lie about what someone else says in order to criticise what they've said then you've already lost.Goalposts wrote:Antifa if you genuinely believe that it is not organised, a complete made up propaganda tool of the right to cover all groups, has no mantra , symbolism, even ways of dressing or overarching aims or ambition, again thats your view.
actually, yes. That's something they do. https://www.thedailybeast.com/right-win ... ate-antifa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;your right the propaganda of the right is truly powerful, and blinding me to what i can see with my own eyes, in fact now that i think about it, i bet its right wing extremists infiltrating the peace loving antifa movements to give it a bad name
There's nothing wrong with covering your face, if it's for the purpose of avoiding retribution from fascists. We've seen over the past few years that the fascists like to doxx and attack their opponents outside these protests, so covering ones face is perfectly fine with me. Of course i'm sure you know this already, you're just choosing to disregard it because it's inconvenient to your opinion., again your surety of your world view has me in awe. why didnt i see it earlier, these antifa guys are peaceful, those going with weapons are right wing infiltrators , those dressed head to toe in black with masks disguising there faces are not antifa followers but cold and flu sufferers determined to ruin the good name of antifa followers.
more pro-fascism. Pretending to care about free speech to attack me for trying to restrict it, which isn't something i've done.phew and i nearly overstepped my right to free speech ..thank you for pointing out to me that my view of the world is wrong and continuing to have these thoughts would see me as a fascist supporter...
I was more than willing to have a mature discussion about this with you, but apparently you were not. Come back when you become better at this.if only we could do something about the people that don't see it the way it is Turtle... I wonder if history has anything to teach us...
ps thanks for the re education lesson i will not swerve from the path again
The PNE fan from Clarets Mad?Wile E Coyote wrote:Thor might.
Thanks, spent 20 minutes googling for it after reading your earlier comment. Complete waste of time.Imploding Turtle wrote:I cannot provide proof without his medical records
Men want to be him, women want to be with him....Bfcboyo wrote:The PNE fan from Clarets Mad?
So if your only options in an election are to vote Fascist or Communist what do you do ?NottsClaret wrote:Facism is one of those words you hear bandied about so much you can lose it's meaning a bit. So I Googled it.
"Fascism is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy."
Sounds about right. I'm definitely against that, so I think I'm anti-facist.
Mind you, if you swap 'right' for 'left' in that definition, it's pretty much Soviet Russia from back in the day. I think I'm against that too, so I'm probably anti-communist also.
Looks like I could be one of those cursed centrist dads, which is dreadful of course but I'll still get through my day without throwing bricks at buses, setting off teargas, carrying torches, being a racist or covering my face.
Can't happen. Fascists don't allow communists (or anyone else) to stand, communists don't allow fascists (or anyone else) to stand.FCBurnley wrote:So if your only options in an election are to vote Fascist or Communist what do you do ?
Well according to some views on here it will be happening in 2020 in Americadsr wrote:Can't happen. Fascists don't allow communists (or anyone else) to stand, communists don't allow fascists (or anyone else) to stand.
FCBurnley wrote:So if your only options in an election are to vote Fascist or Communist what do you do ?
You may find IT is not interested in an accurate view of these and similar events only one that supports his own agenda.Corky wrote:Unless you actually witness these things first hand there is absolutely no point in trying to reach a conclusion as to what has actually happened. Based on bits of social media videos is just not enough information anymore. Clever editing can and does provide such a warped view as we saw from the MOTD coverage of our game with Arsenal to give it a bit of footy analogy.
You call Republicans fascist. I call Democrat’s Communists. I disagree with you. You disagree with me. I am not a fascist but will continue to vote Republican until such time as there is a credible alternativeImploding Turtle wrote:Who are the communists that you think are the only alternative to the fascists we both know you're going to continue voting for?
Trump is a fascist, and he is fully supported by his party. That makes them a fascist party. You support them knowing this, that makes you a fascist.FCBurnley wrote:You call Republicans fascist. I call Democrat’s Communists. I disagree with you. You disagree with me. I am not a fascist but will continue to vote Republican until such time as there is a credible alternative
Corky wrote:Unless you actually witness these things first hand there is absolutely no point in trying to reach a conclusion as to what has actually happened. Based on bits of social media videos is just not enough information anymore. Clever editing can and does provide such a warped view as we saw from the MOTD coverage of our game with Arsenal to give it a bit of footy analogy.
Democracy means you also have the choice to abstain from voting which I suggest is probably the right way to go at the moment. It's like choosing which is the least stinky pile of crap. None - exercise your chance to change the way they represent us by clearly saying none of the above.FCBurnley wrote:So if your only options in an election are to vote Fascist or Communist what do you do ?
Timmy Mallet?Imploding Turtle wrote:This looks really bad for the anti-fascists, doesn't it? Terrible behaviour. Right? One of them even had a hammer.Who, with peaceful intent, would bring a hammer to a protest?
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Winston Churchill? If you're going to define racist as "everyone in the world who has ever expressed an opinion about foreigners", then it becomes meaningless.Erasmus wrote:Some problems with terminology here. Trump seems to have quite strong racist tendencies but that does not make him a fascist. You can be a racist and at the same time be absolutely opposed to fascism, as Winston Churchill demonstrated. I would only class Trump as a fascist if he tried to block the democratic system in the USA, such as it is.
Fascism is a totalitarian ideology that places the strength of the state as its highest aim. The individual citizen's role is to promote the strength of the state. It is in many ways an idealistic form of extreme nationalism. Varying forms of nationalism can be observed today and you might say that these have a tendency towards fascist values, but I don't think many of them have yet reached the stage where they can be said to be 'fascist'.
He didn't do that though, that was just you strawmanning as usual cos you are a fantasist and a charlatandsr wrote:Winston Churchill? If you're going to define racist as "everyone in the world who has ever expressed an opinion about foreigners", then it becomes meaningless.
Well... if you're in the US you thank the founders for the 2nd amendment.FCBurnley wrote:So if your only options in an election are to vote Fascist or Communist what do you do ?
That's what the Republican party have been doing for at least the last 10 years, and Trump is helping them.Erasmus wrote: ... I would only class Trump as a fascist if he tried to block the democratic system in the USA, such as it is.
...
Imploding Turtle wrote:Trump is a fascist, and he is fully supported by his party. That makes them a fascist party. You support them knowing this, that makes you a fascist.
You can call Democrats communists all you like, but no one with half a brain agrees with you. No one who knows what communism actually is can point to the democrats, knowing what their platform is, and call them communists.
The only reason you're calling Democrats communists is because you know you can't argue that the Republican party has become a pro-fascist party, and this is just how you justify it to yourself and others to keep supporting them because the truth is, you actually like their ideas. Hatred, racism, election theft, white nationalism, xenophobia, christian fundamentalism. All things you're supporting when you vote for them. They truly are the American taliban.
" will continue to vote Republican until such time as there is a credible alternative"
This is hilarious. Democrats want to give people free healthcare and education so you have no choice but to vote for the party who doesn't see non-whites as people.
You might consider yourself a fascist, but you're certainly not anti-fascist or you'd not be supporting them. I don't know anything about your age, but if you have kids or grandkids then i hope when they ask you who you vote for that you lie to them, because it's not nice being ashamed of your parents.
You expect to be taken seriously?Imploding Turtle wrote:They [the Republican party] truly are the American taliban.
When you're getting down to choices between two extremist parties like that, then the centre has failed. It's what happened before the Second World War, and in the last ten years around the West. So called "centre ground" parties unable to get their heads around reforming a broken system. Before the war those centre ground parties were supporting an economic system that had failed the majority of people. Unemployment was high, and there was little in the way of a welfare state. Both fascism and communism offered a way around this, which is how they became popular. The odious side - curbing of freedom, alienation of "enemies within", negative nationalism - they all count less compared to someone being able to work, put food on the table, and access healthcare. And you can see that after the war, those issues were very quickly dealt with in every Western nation - and the taste for more extreme parties vanished.Guller Bull wrote:Democracy means you also have the choice to abstain from voting which I suggest is probably the right way to go at the moment. It's like choosing which is the least stinky pile of crap. None - exercise your chance to change the way they represent us by clearly saying none of the above.
I remember seeing it pointed out a long time ago (around 2003) the similarities between the Taliban and the Bush administration. The strong religious conservatism, the disregard of human rights, and the tendency toward armed force rather than diplomacy. And that they existed in a kind of symbiotic relationship, as each bolstered the other's appeal.dsr wrote:You expect to be taken seriously?
I don't know how old you are. I could have stereotyped the kind of ancient beliefs you hold and assumed you were on the older side, but i didn't do that. Why? Because i don't ******* know how old you are, and i try not to stereotype people. I was literally explaining that what i was saying had absolutely no basis on knowledge of your age and yet you're accusing me of ageism. Dumb ******* snowflakeFCBurnley wrote:How many people will the The Dems give free Healthcare to ? and how will that be funded ? Same question re Education
Universal healthcare is cheaper and better than private healthcare. As demonstrated by a libertarian think tank's study into how much it would cost to expand medicare to everyone.
Yes. Religious extremists who hate woman, non-christians, non-whites and democracy.
I think when you include the context of that quote you can clearly figure out that i missed out a word by mistake. I don't think you're too stupid to figure that out, but you're definitely dishonest enough to pretend not to be able to figure that out, which is why you only quoted part of the sentence, and not all of it.
Yes. Not by you, but by smart people.dsr wrote:You expect to be taken seriously?