Hendrick’s goal VAR

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Taffy on the wing
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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by Taffy on the wing » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:18 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:27 pm
Then there is the pen. Yes Lowton was stupid but Willian just kicked the ball forward and put his foot into him about 6 inches to the right. That is a ******* dive. Corrupt var officials.
Yes!......Willian should have been booked.
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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by FCBurnley » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:20 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:22 pm
If you look at the image again I think Riley is correct that it’s Hendricks arm sticking out and not Abraham’s leg, I agree with the rest though, the VAR lines were a farce again, seems like a system implemented to favour the big sides.
Woods arm is sticking out unless Hendrick was wearing number 9 . Hendrick is nearer the camera than Wood and is clearly oside. Why am I the only one who can see Abrahams leg has a white sock on ??? No way in a million years does that view prove offside. Remember only Mee and Hendrick were involved in the goal.
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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by fidelcastro » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:21 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:18 pm
Yes!......Willian should have been booked.
I suggest you watch it again.

You'll be saying that the second goal wasn't a goalkeeper error next.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:27 pm

The penalty-

Just watched it on MOTD 2.

"There was contact"

There was.

Willian made sure that, as he fell , like he'd been shot by a sniper, HE , made contact with Lowton!

Losing to the better side , I can take.

Losing to a cheating mother funkster....

I'm less inclined to "take it on the chin" as Mr Ternent occasionally said.

However, we keep going.....

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by KRBFC » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:31 am

FCBurnley wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:20 pm
Woods arm is sticking out unless Hendrick was wearing number 9 . Hendrick is nearer the camera than Wood and is clearly oside. Why am I the only one who can see Abrahams leg has a white sock on ??? No way in a million years does that view prove offside. Remember only Mee and Hendrick were involved in the goal.
Hendrick is the player above Wood on the picture closest to Abraham, I was convinced it was Abraham’s leg on first view but now Riley has mentioned it, it does actually look like its Hendricks arm.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by KRBFC » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:33 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:27 pm
The penalty-

Just watched it on MOTD 2.

"There was contact"

There was.

Willian made sure that, as he fell , like he'd been shot by a sniper, HE , made contact with Lowton!

Losing to the better side , I can take.

Losing to a cheating mother funkster....

I'm less inclined to "take it on the chin" as Mr Ternent occasionally said.

However, we keep going.....
I actually thought it was a stone wall penalty, I don’t think it makes a difference if Lowton tried to pull out or not, all Willian had to do was kick the ball away and wait for the contact for a blatant foul.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by FCBurnley » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:50 am

KRBFC wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:31 am
Hendrick is the player above Wood on the picture closest to Abraham, I was convinced it was Abraham’s leg on first view but now Riley has mentioned it, it does actually look like its Hendricks arm.
Hendrick is above wood but whatever is sticking out is white ( Chelsea socks are white) not blue ( Burnley sleeves are blue ) Whatever is correct it shows how inconclusive the stills are. Not enough to disallow a goal. Game is fine if the font fix this and quickly

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by KRBFC » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:37 am

FCBurnley wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:50 am
Hendrick is above wood but whatever is sticking out is white ( Chelsea socks are white) not blue ( Burnley sleeves are blue ) Whatever is correct it shows how inconclusive the stills are. Not enough to disallow a goal. Game is fine if the font fix this and quickly
Yeah it’s difficult to tell what is sticking out, the line is still wrong either way, it goes through the body of Abraham? Weird

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by scouseclaret » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:22 am

KRBFC wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:31 am
Hendrick is the player above Wood on the picture closest to Abraham, I was convinced it was Abraham’s leg on first view but now Riley has mentioned it, it does actually look like its Hendricks arm.
It is certainly Hendrick’s arm, but why is the VAR line drawn through Abraham’s left shoulder ,rather than his right shoulder which is nearest the goal?

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by aggi » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:49 am

KRBFC wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:33 am
I actually thought it was a stone wall penalty, I don’t think it makes a difference if Lowton tried to pull out or not, all Willian had to do was kick the ball away and wait for the contact for a blatant foul.
It's a stonewall penalty nowadays and it was always going to get given after Lowton went down like that.

Personally I don't think a penalty should be awarded for that. The ball was heading off in a different direction and Willian ignored the ball, changed direction and deliberately ran into the player but that is classed as a penalty now and the players should be aware of that.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by Zlatan » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:18 am

aggi wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:49 am
It's a stonewall penalty nowadays and it was always going to get given after Lowton went down like that.

Personally I don't think a penalty should be awarded for that. The ball was heading off in a different direction and Willian ignored the ball, changed direction and deliberately ran into the player but that is classed as a penalty now and the players should be aware of that.
It's this type of cheating I was naively hoping VAR would be used for, but like you said nowadays it's always given

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by Ric_C » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:01 pm

After watching MOTD2 I'm still at a loss what that offside line was all about. Totally in the wrong place, but conveniently glossed over by the studio pundits.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by deanothedino » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:13 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:22 pm
If you look at the image again I think Riley is correct that it’s Hendricks arm sticking out and not Abraham’s leg, I agree with the rest though, the VAR lines were a farce again, seems like a system implemented to favour the big sides.
Unless Hendrick was wearing a white sock on his arm, that is Abraham's leg.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by IanMcL » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:29 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:33 am
I actually thought it was a stone wall penalty, I don’t think it makes a difference if Lowton tried to pull out or not, all Willian had to do was kick the ball away and wait for the contact for a blatant foul.
He did not wait for the contact, that's the point! He moved his leg to the right to obtain the contact. Cheating b'tard diving scumbag!

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by KRBFC » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:33 pm

deanothedino wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:13 pm
Unless Hendrick was wearing a white sock on his arm, that is Abraham's leg.
Nobody seems to know, I didn’t even consider it could be Hendricks arm until it was mentioned.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by deanothedino » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:41 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:33 pm
Nobody seems to know, I didn’t even consider it could be Hendricks arm until it was mentioned.
I'd suggest anyone who doesn't know, picks up their phone and contacts their optician to book an appointment.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by KRBFC » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:48 pm

deanothedino wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:41 pm
I'd suggest anyone who doesn't know, picks up their phone and contacts their optician to book an appointment.
Do you have a better image? The more and more I look at it after Riley said it was Hendricks arm, the more convinced I am it’s Hendricks arm. Scroll down to the image and zoom in, I’m 90% sure it’s an arm.

https://www.givemesport.com/1537160-var ... vs-chelsea

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by Burnley1989 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:04 pm

I thought arm yesterday but having looked at that link KRBFC put up I’m 99% sure it’s a leg. Farce either way

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:05 pm

deanothedino wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:41 pm
I'd suggest anyone who doesn't know, picks up their phone and contacts their optician to book an appointment.
Think you may need to book the appointment. It's Hendrick's arm.

Why would Abraham's leg be extended out like that? And how long do you think his socks are?

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by RMutt » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:07 pm

https://www.trollfootball.me/others/vie ... chelsea-19

Not sure whether this is any clearer but it answers my question about when McNeil strikes the ball. Although given the ball is a blur and already moving it could open up further complications.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by Zlatan » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:07 pm

Doesn’t this discussion about arm/leg sock/sleeve just emphasise how flawed the VAR process is?

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:08 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:04 pm
I thought arm yesterday but having looked at that link KRBFC put up I’m 99% sure it’s a leg. Farce either way
Zoom into the image - if it is Abraham's leg then how has he pulled his sock over his shorts and all the way up to his waist?

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by KRBFC » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:19 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:07 pm
Doesn’t this discussion about arm/leg sock/sleeve just emphasise how flawed the VAR process is?
Yes, it would soften the blow of relegation for me, VAR is just killing the game completely.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by KRBFC » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:20 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:04 pm
I thought arm yesterday but having looked at that link KRBFC put up I’m 99% sure it’s a leg. Farce either way
So we are arguing amongst ourselves wether it’s an arm or a leg, brilliant :lol: it’s like one of those stupid puzzle photos where everybody sees a different coloured object :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by Spike » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:23 pm

Why when all the world can see VAR decisions are wrong do they still persist in what can only be called cheating?

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by thatdberight » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:24 pm

It's definitely Hendrick's arm which I, on first view, along with many others, took to be Abraham's leg.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by Working_Class_Zero » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:30 pm

hendrick.jpg
hendrick.jpg (96.67 KiB) Viewed 2039 times
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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by deanothedino » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:36 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:05 pm
Think you may need to book the appointment. It's Hendrick's arm.

Why would Abraham's leg be extended out like that? And how long do you think his socks are?
I think it's white, though yes that second image has me doubting it too as I'd only seen the first, but tbh it doesn't matter either way as the line still goes through Abraham's body rather than on his right shoulder like it should if that isn't his leg.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:37 pm

deanothedino wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:36 pm
I think it's white, though yes that second image has me doubting it too as I'd only seen the first, but tbh it doesn't matter either way as the line still goes through Abraham's body rather than on his right shoulder like it should if that isn't his leg.
Get that appointment booked mate!
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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by FCBurnley » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:38 pm

On frame 1 Hendrick is off. On frame 2 and 3 his arm is level at worst with Abraham’s arm which has moved dbetween frames 1&2.
Big question is when was the free kick taken ?

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by Ric_C » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:41 pm

deanothedino wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:36 pm
I think it's white, though yes that second image has me doubting it too as I'd only seen the first, but tbh it doesn't matter either way as the line still goes through Abraham's body rather than on his right shoulder like it should if that isn't his leg.
Exactly. Why is the line going right through Abraham's body?

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by fidelcastro » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:43 pm

FCBurnley wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:38 pm
On frame 1 Hendrick is off. On frame 2 and 3 his arm is level at worst with Abraham’s arm which has moved dbetween frames 1&2.
Big question is when was the free kick taken ?
No such thing as level anymore apparently.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by Zlatan » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:22 pm

Ric_C wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:41 pm
Exactly. Why is the line going right through Abraham's body?
it's because of the third axis in the VAR process - they line up where they think his shoulder is with the ground and the line is run across the ground as in the images below. For what it's worth the line for Ben Mee is also done in the same way. However, as previously discussed on this forum, there is absolutely no way of determining whether offside or not because of the potential for up to 18 inches of error with VAR line drawings - couple that with a guess about where his shoulder lines up with the ground and it is a recipe for mistakes week in week out.

Also I do believe that it is definitely Hendrick's arm, but as there is no clear view of Abraham's foot (which could conceivably be behind Hendricks arm) it adds to the confusion.

Screenshots from the footage here https://www.trollfootball.me/others/vie ... chelsea-19
VAR.JPG
VAR.JPG (103.06 KiB) Viewed 1957 times
VAR2.JPG
VAR2.JPG (76.95 KiB) Viewed 1957 times

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by deanothedino » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:29 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:22 pm
it's because of the third axis in the VAR process - they line up where they think his shoulder is with the ground and the line is run across the ground as in the images below. For what it's worth the line for Ben Mee is also done in the same way. However, as previously discussed on this forum, there is absolutely no way of determining whether offside or not because of the potential for up to 18 inches of error with VAR line drawings - couple that with a guess about where his shoulder lines up with the ground and it is a recipe for mistakes week in week out.

Also I do believe that it is definitely Hendrick's arm, but as there is no clear view of Abraham's foot (which could conceivably be behind Hendricks arm) it adds to the confusion.

Screenshots from the footage here https://www.trollfootball.me/others/vie ... chelsea-19

VAR.JPG
VAR2.JPG
Looking at the second image Mee might be off by a hair... maybe. There's not enough resolution in the image the pick an accurate point though. And that's before you get to the error due to the framerate.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by aggi » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:37 pm

FCBurnley wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:38 pm
On frame 1 Hendrick is off. On frame 2 and 3 his arm is level at worst with Abraham’s arm which has moved dbetween frames 1&2.
Big question is when was the free kick taken ?
The goal was disallowed for Mee being offside, not Hendrick.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by FCBurnley » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:03 pm

The fact that we are all discussing this issue and cannot make a definitive decision begs the question. How on earth did the Lino make the call either way. He could not have been certain

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by LeadBelly » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:27 pm

Arms dont count do they? Doesnt the current offside law relate only to parts of the body that are permitted to play the ball (so not arms)?

Hendrick's shoulder (the furthest forward bit of him that counts) is further back than Abraham's shoulder (about level with Abraham's middle back) so he's not offside.
Mee, on the other hand, may be offside, we need to see that line moved forward to Mee's right shoulder and see how that compares to Abraham's right shoulder (or whichever bit of him is nearest the goalline). If Mee is ahead of Abraham in that respect then Mee would be adjudged offside when he headed the ball back across to the never offside Hendrick.
In fact, they do this on the Sky coverage now at about 0.30 here. https://www.skysports.com/football/chel ... ley/408193

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by KRBFC » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:35 pm

In VARs case they made this decision pretty quickly, which is quite clearly a guess in the big clubs favour. It’s far too inconclusive and iffy to make a swift accurate decision with incorrect lines drawn.

I have absolutely no problem with the goal being ruled out if Mee is offside, I wouldn’t consider myself overly biased, I’m pretty neutral in situations like this, I favour the fair approach. So when I’m saying it’s a joke guess biased decision there’s likely an issue.

VAR has killed football in this country like I knew it would

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by Burnley1989 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:01 pm

Working_Class_Zero wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:30 pm
hendrick.jpg
And now I’m back to arm
  • :lol:

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by Taffy on the wing » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:28 pm

fidelcastro wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:21 pm
I suggest you watch it again.

You'll be saying that the second goal wasn't a goalkeeper error next.
Are you sure you understand what i'm saying?........Lowton pulled out of the tackle, there was no foul!
Willian should have been booked for simulation/ acting.

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Re: Hendrick’s goal VAR

Post by clitheroeclaret2 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:49 pm

From the little Ive seen I`d agree, no penalty, Chelsea cheat booked. Its willian who makes contact with Lowton!!
Tarkowski pushed out of the way for the 2nd

VAR is just a tool for the big clubs to win, now not up against 1 ref to ensure (un)fairness but TWO

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