Covid-19
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Re: Coronavirus
We should be grateful, if Ringo hadn’t suggested this then no one would have thought to limit international travel
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Re: Coronavirus
Somehow, usually, one step ahead of the curveist, more like
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Re: Coronavirus
I think we need an ultra liberal, teach-the-world-to-sing poster called GeorgeLennon for balance.
Re: Coronavirus
So, I’m asking you (as someone who has been right all along) what would Lowbankclaret’s lessons learnt be for the government?Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:52 pmYou can go back and copy the posts, they are there.
What can we learn??
At work we have a lesson learnt log. Past mistakes are logged and what we did to correct it.
Guess what no one reads it and the amount of times I point people to it who are making the same stupid mistakes again is far to often.
We also do risk assessments, they log all the risks and no one does f uk all about them.
So in summary, we could do a lesson learnt log, do a risk assessment of what might happen in a future pandemic. No one would actually do anything.
Re: Coronavirus
Mystic McCartney rears his ugly head again. Like the coronavirus, an obligate parasite that isn't going anywhere yet sadly.RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:23 pmVery nearly 7 days ago to the hour, I suggested that border controls could be utilised in helping in the Coronavirus emergency.
Just like the coronavirus though, please wash hands thoroughly if you think you might have come into contact.
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Re: Coronavirus
Said it before.
Look at the outlying countries and see what they are doing differently.
As I said before.
Go look see and see if it’s real data.
Ministers are now quoting the countries I pointed out.
Learn from them and implement what they did differently.
Re: Coronavirus
Any chance you could be specific about what you would do, in your lessons learnt and not vague about it?Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:57 pmSaid it before.
Look at the outlying countries and see what they are doing differently.
As I said before.
Go look see and see if it’s real data.
Ministers are now quoting the countries I pointed out.
Learn from them and implement what they did differently.
Re: Coronavirus
Our society will suffer for decades economically as a result of this.Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:07 pmMaybe I am not making my point clear.
80% of companies are not going to be generating income, we need to keep them in business.
ALL of them.
If the gov does not do what the rest of the world is doing, our society will suffer.
How can the world remain in lockdown for 18 months
Re: Coronavirus
I am back to work tomorrow, and I am reading that I now have the powers to detain members of the public with coronavirus, who are posing a risk to public safety.
Great idea in theory. This could get messy.
Great idea in theory. This could get messy.
Last edited by TsarBomba on Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Coronavirus
You also said this virus was engineered by the Chinese government to specifically target ethnic Chinese to control their own population.Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:20 pmI have suggested for many weeks.
Look at South Korea and Taiwan, find out why they are being successful.
Jeremy Hunt has just been on the news saying exactly what I said weeks ago.
Day 1 of this thread I said with a couple of others this was serious, mocked by many.
I explained the flattening of the curve a week before gov started going on about it and said their strategy was flawed.
It’s now evident it was.
I said the strategy of reduced testing was wrong, it was and now they are going to try to play catch up.
I said they would need to bail out all businesses, they have just done so.
None of this was rocket science, it was all there in the data.
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Re: Coronavirus
You also proclaimed we're being lied to, like some rabid anti-vaxxer, just because a counter on some unofficial website has been stuck, unaltered on 20 for a few days.Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:57 pmSaid it before.
Look at the outlying countries and see what they are doing differently.
As I said before.
Go look see and see if it’s real data.
Ministers are now quoting the countries I pointed out.
Learn from them and implement what they did differently.
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Re: Coronavirus
Make enough statements and some of it will be close enough to claim being right, we’ll done you.
Re: Coronavirus
Double blind, placebo controlled trial about to start.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04303507
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Re: Coronavirus
Yep you can keep bringing that up.thatdberight wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:16 pmYou also said this virus was engineered by the Chinese government to specifically target ethnic Chinese to control their own population.
Apparently the Russian are now saying we developed it and smeared it on an animal in Wuhan in retaliation for Salisbury.
The Iranians say it was the US.
Take your pick.
Or make your own up.
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Re: Coronavirus
I should have said they were being economical with the truth. Interestingly we are only testing people who are seriously ill in hospital. Today over 400 tested positive but we still only have 20 serious or critical.thatdberight wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:19 pmYou also proclaimed we're being lied to, like some rabid anti-vaxxer, just because a counter on some unofficial website has been stuck, unaltered on 20 for a few days.
Economic with the truth.
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Re: Coronavirus
Posted this just this Saturday night. So much for "gradually and in subtle ways". Ha! Three days ago I'd not have believed you if you'd told me wartime levels of state intervention would be announced by the weekend, but here we are!Spiral wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:26 pmThis pandemic has the very real potential to be the single biggest interruption to the global order since the second world war. This is far bigger than SARS in 2002. History shows us that world events with such far reaching and manifold ramifications on economies, human behaviour, day-to-day life, cultures and attitudes act to flush out old ideas, force people to consider the merits of the established order and confront the failures of the 'old ways', and have the capacity to reshape power. For example, driven by desperation governments will look to tech firms for help in collating and understanding data, controlling and disseminating information, involving them more directly in their crisis strategies, thus giving those companies a voice as loud as the old establishment within the corridors of power. This is to say nothing of the effect on the world economy, and that fact that central banks have basically no wriggle room with baseline interests rates being so low. It could get ugly. One thing is certain, Google and other such companies have been waiting for this kind of event to flex their muscles and demonstrate their 'contribution' to the world. I don't mean to paint these companies as behaving nefariously because they most certainly are not, but an interruption event such as this has the capacity to accelerate what might have been an inevitable industrial re-invention, which (apprehensive about sounding like a Marxist, here, because I'm not one) is often a driver of politics and our material life. I know this all sounds hyperbolic, and realistically if it comes to it, it will manifest gradually and in subtle ways, but aspects of the world will change. I highly doubt it will be as seismic as the first world war, or as epochal as the second, but compared to events since then I think it will be as impactful as anything we've seen in our lives.
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Re: Coronavirus
No. You have no discernment. You see a number on some website that has no credibility and you parrot it. You don't know we only have 20. Show me a primary, credible source (I'll save you the bother. There isn't one. Spend your time dreaming up another crazy conspiracy theory).Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:10 pmI should have said they were being economical with the truth. Interestingly we are only testing people who are seriously ill in hospital. Today over 400 tested positive but we still only have 20 serious or critical.
Economic with the truth.
Re: Coronavirus
They must be confident with 10,000 sample.Mala591 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:01 pmDouble blind, placebo controlled trial about to start.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04303507
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Re: Coronavirus
It is I agree but you brought it up initially, there's nothing to discuss, it's in black & white, what I initially stated, any disagreement you should be raising them with the coroner's & doctor's & medical specialists who've compiled the statistics & information.thatdberight wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:55 amI'm working today but if you're genuinely interested in us bottoming what seems now a rather trivial and arcane point, I'll pick up with you later.
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Re: Coronavirus
These 2 extremes sum up the best and worst in humanity.
Chinese billionaire and co-founder of Alibaba, Jack Ma, has pledged donate 20,000 testing kits, 100,000 masks and 1,000 protective suits to each African country to help the fight against coronavirus.
Mr Ma, Asia's richest person, earlier this month sent consignments of medical supplies to the US and pledged to distribute two million protective masks across Europe.
The supplies for Africa would be delivered to Ethiopia's capital, Addis Ababa, with Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed overseeing distribution to the rest of the continent, he said in a statement.
"As members of the global community, it will be irresponsible of us to sit on the fence, panic, ignore facts, or fail to act. We need to take action now," he said.
Mr Abiy confirmed the news in a series of tweets and spoke of his "great appreciation" for Jack Ma's partnership:
Mr Ma said his Jack Ma Foundation and Alibaba Foundation would also provide online material for coronavirus clinical treatment to medical institutions on the continent.
There has been a sharp rise in coronavirus cases in Africa in recent days, although they are still fewer than in most other continents.
Strict measures have been ordered - including travel restrictions and the closure of schools - in South Africa and Kenya among others.
There are concerns that the continent's weak health systems may be unable to cope with a large outbreak, and that governments lack financial and logistical resources to deal with the virus.
Well done that man hope his assistance proves invaluable in their fight against this disease.
And at the other scale this **** in Germany have no compassion whatever.
Thieves in Germany have stolen 50,000 protective face masks intended for medical clinics from a hospital, German news agency DPA reports.
"This is a new grade of theft", a spokeswoman for the hospital in Cologne told DPA.
"We're talking about items that normally have a value measured in cents, but apparently there's a market for them now."
The city's crisis management team took measures to secure and check all stocks after the theft.
Chinese billionaire and co-founder of Alibaba, Jack Ma, has pledged donate 20,000 testing kits, 100,000 masks and 1,000 protective suits to each African country to help the fight against coronavirus.
Mr Ma, Asia's richest person, earlier this month sent consignments of medical supplies to the US and pledged to distribute two million protective masks across Europe.
The supplies for Africa would be delivered to Ethiopia's capital, Addis Ababa, with Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed overseeing distribution to the rest of the continent, he said in a statement.
"As members of the global community, it will be irresponsible of us to sit on the fence, panic, ignore facts, or fail to act. We need to take action now," he said.
Mr Abiy confirmed the news in a series of tweets and spoke of his "great appreciation" for Jack Ma's partnership:
Mr Ma said his Jack Ma Foundation and Alibaba Foundation would also provide online material for coronavirus clinical treatment to medical institutions on the continent.
There has been a sharp rise in coronavirus cases in Africa in recent days, although they are still fewer than in most other continents.
Strict measures have been ordered - including travel restrictions and the closure of schools - in South Africa and Kenya among others.
There are concerns that the continent's weak health systems may be unable to cope with a large outbreak, and that governments lack financial and logistical resources to deal with the virus.
Well done that man hope his assistance proves invaluable in their fight against this disease.
And at the other scale this **** in Germany have no compassion whatever.
Thieves in Germany have stolen 50,000 protective face masks intended for medical clinics from a hospital, German news agency DPA reports.
"This is a new grade of theft", a spokeswoman for the hospital in Cologne told DPA.
"We're talking about items that normally have a value measured in cents, but apparently there's a market for them now."
The city's crisis management team took measures to secure and check all stocks after the theft.
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Re: Coronavirus
Interestingly, or maybe not to some. I had an appointment with my cardiology consultant this afternoon. According to her I am in the highest risk area with this virus and I must isolate at least until October, her words. She explained the procedures they were going to take but as an aside, hospitals were preparing for the epidemic but no where near ready. She expected a very lengthy period of isolation far in excess of what has been stated so far.
The worst part was my wife was in attendance and now I am getting all sorts of grief because of my fishing holidays coming up.
The worst part was my wife was in attendance and now I am getting all sorts of grief because of my fishing holidays coming up.
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Re: Coronavirus
Tim Martin (owner of Whetherspoons) thinks the government has got it wrong advising people not to go to pubs and clubs... He only weighs in when it's in his own self interest regardless of the effects to the general public.
What was the last thing he weighed in on?
What was the last thing he weighed in on?
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Re: Coronavirus
The Bundespolizei should keep an eye on eBay.
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Re: Coronavirus
A weeks past since I said " border posts could be utilised to help slow the spread of the virus and in quarantining.Claret32yrs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:55 pmIt's something that is global and borders and seas make no difference. It's not the time nor place for points scoring mate. It's a time to pull together and reflect.
One week later.
"Coronavirus: Europe plans full border closure in virus battle - BBC News
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51918596
Germany announces border posts controls
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-51905129
The EU announces external border controls
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/m ... y-at-noon/
And the Schengen zone suspended!
https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what- ... control_en
If the measures of restricting movement, help in saving just one person's life, then , in my eyes, it will have been worth it.
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Re: Coronavirus
He's right the government has got it wrong,by giving people the option whether to visit pubs and clubs,they've absolved themselves of responsibility.CombatClaret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:57 pmTim Martin (owner of Whetherspoons) thinks the government has got it wrong advising people not to go to pubs and clubs... He only weighs in when it's in his own self interest regardless of the effects to the general public.
What was the last thing he weighed in on?
I'm afraid drastic times call for drastic measures,and this should have been taken out of the public's hands,all non-essential public places should have been immediately ordered to cease trading or opening.
What i find equally bizarre is the authorities are preaching social distancing,and yet when footage of the HOC is shown on the news,they're squeezed in like sardines,practice what you bl**dy well preach FGS,and set an example.
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Re: Coronavirus
The problem with testing is, who's going to do it?Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:20 pmI said the strategy of reduced testing was wrong, it was and now they are going to try to play catch up.
Either you have lots of possibly infectious people all going to the same testing centre; all travelling, all getting together, all going back to their respective neighbourhoods.
Or you have testers going round to the homes of the possibly infectious, going from home to home.
The objections to the first idea are obvious. The objection to the second is that you have a trained medical professional doing (optimistically) 10 tests per hour, if the people they are testing are all close together and they can be in and out, including travel time, in 6 minutes. Very optimistic, but lets' run with it. So if we want to test 10,000 people in a day, that's 1,000 man hours, or based on a 10-hour day, 100 trained medical professionals doing nothing but collecting blood. I suspect we have better and more urgent uses for those 100 people.
Re: Coronavirus
Yesterday new cases and deaths in Italy are quite alarming as new cases are very high.
Also high figures from Germany.
Also high figures from Germany.
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Re: Coronavirus
You'd have to pitch up marquees if people are still showing symptoms past the self isolation cut off point, by then ideally it'd be whittled/narrowed down, the problem with people self isolating is you cannot be sure if it's virus or something else, a certified GP conducting the tests would be the favourite, they'll have to maybe train or retrain personnel to be familiar with the testing process. It'd have to be by appointment only to prevent non carriers becoming infected, it'd be a massive task with numerous obstacles, it's a floating idea the way i think they'd do it.dsr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:57 pmThe problem with testing is, who's going to do it?
Either you have lots of possibly infectious people all going to the same testing centre; all travelling, all getting together, all going back to their respective neighbourhoods.
Or you have testers going round to the homes of the possibly infectious, going from home to home.
The objections to the first idea are obvious. The objection to the second is that you have a trained medical professional doing (optimistically) 10 tests per hour, if the people they are testing are all close together and they can be in and out, including travel time, in 6 minutes. Very optimistic, but lets' run with it. So if we want to test 10,000 people in a day, that's 1,000 man hours, or based on a 10-hour day, 100 trained medical professionals doing nothing but collecting blood. I suspect we have better and more urgent uses for those 100 people.
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Re: Coronavirus
There's no back up to that 600 number on that site that I can see. This fairly substantial piece of work on UK mortality (if you wade through the 86 pages) includes this: I'm sure I get loads of stuff wrong in dealing with stuff like this where I'm a layman but I try not to just take an unsourced document as the be all and end all.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:29 pmIt is I agree but you brought it up initially, there's nothing to discuss, it's in black & white, what I initially stated, any disagreement you should be raising them with the coroner's & doctor's & medical specialists who've compiled the statistics & information.
Further PHE work: Prof Whitty quoted at:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51730686
"stressed that flu kills 8,000 people in the UK in an average year."
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Re: Coronavirus
Interesting piece:
http://m.nautil.us/issue/83/intelligenc ... ket-newtab
http://m.nautil.us/issue/83/intelligenc ... ket-newtab
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Re: Coronavirus
so basically, none of us knows what's happening, the scientists are in disagreement, Boris is spluttering out incoherent daily meanderings, and somehow we should all be frantically hand washing or self isolating , or if born 70 years ago hoping right minded neighbours who don't like pubs, come to their aid.what ********, all this drama whilst the same type of people who chuck McDonalds shite from cars, and fly tip, are buying up every piece of meat or bog roll available.
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Re: Coronavirus
https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/influenza-fluthatdberight wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:49 amThere's no back up to that 600 number on that site that I can see. This fairly substantial piece of work on UK mortality (if you wade through the 86 pages) includes this:
Screenshot_20200318-002530.jpg
I'm sure I get loads of stuff wrong in dealing with stuff like this where I'm a layman but I try not to just take an unsourced document as the be all and end all.
Further PHE work:
Screenshot_20200318-003748.jpg
Prof Whitty quoted at:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51730686
"stressed that flu kills 8,000 people in the UK in an average year."
https://www.kaysmedical.com/600-people- ... ns-of-flu/
That's another link in addition to the vaccine knowledge project posted before, I can post more saying 600 a year.
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Re: Coronavirus
You can. I've seen them when I was looking at this. I've been unable to find anything more detailed than the repetition of the 600 number. I already suggested, way back on page 1, a possible reason why two numbers are in play. I still think that's possible. It's you who seems to be have to be exclusively "right", not me.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:58 amhttps://www.kaysmedical.com/600-people- ... ns-of-flu/
That's another link in addition to the vaccine knowledge project posted before, I can post more saying 600 a year.
If we're talking about the current outbreak, deaths with comorbidities are being counted. If someone asks how that compares to the season flu, it's reasonable to count them on the same basis or we're not making a sensible comparison. No?
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Re: Coronavirus
Complications of flu is the key, standout flu alone would be higher, the 600 figure is attributed to somebody already suffering illness & the 600 is factored into that, I'm not saying either of us are right, I'm actually carrying out research now on a separate web browser which is actually contradicting the 600 & your higher figure, I'll post the further information in due course when I've fully completed the research, night.thatdberight wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:03 amYou can. I've seen them when I was looking at this. I've been unable to find anything more detailed than the repetition of the 600 number. I already suggested, way back on page 1, a possible reason why two numbers are in play. I still think that's possible. It's you who seems to be have to be exclusively "right", not me.
If we're talking about the current outbreak, deaths with comorbidities are being counted. If someone asks how that compares to the season flu, it's reasonable to count them on the same basis or we're not making a sensible comparison. No?
Re: Coronavirus
So worldometer is clearly telling is that governments are just keeping everybody calm , testing and releasing figures slowly to suit each of their agendas and plans. Possibly with the exception of Italy , who seem to be the most honest and are carrying out the most testing. I'd assume the 50k they estimate have it in the UK would also push the death figure up if they were testing more people.
This virus is just waking up and hasn't even got moving yet. The government are doing a good job so far and will reluctantly close the schools this week. A long summer ahead.
This virus is just waking up and hasn't even got moving yet. The government are doing a good job so far and will reluctantly close the schools this week. A long summer ahead.
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Re: Coronavirus
Not sure how you take any of that away from the numbers. You may believe those things but it's got nothing to do with those numbers.Bfcboyo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:42 amSo worldometer is clearly telling is that governments are just keeping everybody calm , testing and releasing figures slowly to suit each of their agendas and plans. Possibly with the exception of Italy , who seem to be the most honest and are carrying out the most testing. I'd assume the 50k they estimate have it in the UK would also push the death figure up if they were testing more people.
Since all hospitalised patients with flu-like symptoms are being tested now, it seems unlikely that we're missing large numbers of deaths where this is a factor.
Re: Coronavirus
I think like Arnie "It'll be back"Gordaleman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:51 pmEncouraging news I suppose. As I said last night, Italian cases seem to be peaking, so hopefully, if the lockdown continues for another week or so, the virus will have very few people to infect and will hopefully largely die out.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... try/italy/
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Re: Coronavirus
The UK has very good systems in place for tracking citizens and people they've had contact with.
Cases are still very low and most of the airports you can fly out to are closed.
Putting the rate of infected in proportion is a lot less scary if you think of it in terms of the weekly Turf attendance, 1.5k people spread across the whole country is a tiny amount and if isolation and tracking people they have been in contact with is very effective, which I believe is possible in the UK then this will slow the spread.
If people are social distancing, self-isolating and just generally avoiding people a bit more then this will also slow the spread.
The UK is an island, I think this will play a massive factor, considering most other countries have closed their borders you don't actually have to close yours.
There's a possibility the UK is nipping it in the bud right here and now.
The NHS isn't just sitting on its thumb, it will be frantically preparing
But if you can, stay in for a week or two and wait it out, at the very least it staggers, postpones the effect on the health service.
May I also say that I don't entirely agree that it will change the world forever. It'll be difficult for a time and during that time everyone will have to be wary and loads of businesses will unfortunately go bust but it should be eradicated within a year and we can get back to normal.
If the rumours are true and this comes from people eating infected bats then that would be something I'd be looking to change forever, stop people eating that crap.
Re: Coronavirus
A point that is coming out is the lack and shortage of testing especially for frontline NHS workers and those who are ill and what sickened me was watching GMB this morning and they said the rich and famous just for “piece of mind” can pay for a test for £400.
The thought that the private sector is profiteering from this crisis and is happy to test a celeb or a footballer whilst an NHS worker who could be working, but has to self isolating over a cough or a family member with a cough has to wait 14 days to return to work. There will be a shortage of NHS workers in the next few months which will mean people dying unnecessarily.
If we are all in this together this private testing to me has to stop.
The thought that the private sector is profiteering from this crisis and is happy to test a celeb or a footballer whilst an NHS worker who could be working, but has to self isolating over a cough or a family member with a cough has to wait 14 days to return to work. There will be a shortage of NHS workers in the next few months which will mean people dying unnecessarily.
If we are all in this together this private testing to me has to stop.
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Re: Coronavirus
In some good news among all the doom and gloom of coronavirus, a vaccine trial has begun after the first person was injected last night.
A phase 1 trial is now officially underway in the US, with a woman in Seattle becoming the first human to receive a shot of the potential vaccine.
https://propermanchester.com/news/coron ... with-shot/
Looking at 18 months though, if it works.
A phase 1 trial is now officially underway in the US, with a woman in Seattle becoming the first human to receive a shot of the potential vaccine.
https://propermanchester.com/news/coron ... with-shot/
Looking at 18 months though, if it works.