Boris Watch

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Locked
AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:53 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:55 am
You're absolutely correct Andrew. It's not party political issue. Had it been a Green or Labour government they would still be following the advice, the very same advice, from the very same Chief medical officer , from whom , the Conservative government takes guidance from. Therefore your grievance lays not with the government itself, but with their advisers.
The Chief Medical Officer didn't tell the government what to do, but set out possible ways forward along with their likely consequences. The government then chose the path - the decision probably balanced against economic impact and other considerations. Your idea that our science (which many say we are a leader in) was different to that of other European countries doesn't stand up well against my idea that the science was the same, but the government chose a different path to those other European countries. For one thing we have Johnson's speech from last week, when he said many of our loved ones might be taken from us too early. This statement - along with the fact the government hadn't closed down public places and restricted travel, and wasn't testing everyone - suggests that the government chose to let the pandemic run its course, rather than intervene to save lives. This article from Sunday backs up my assertion:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... HuBc6MbxrA

The epidemiologist thought the UK government position (not the position of the chief medical examiner) was a satire.

Over to you.

claretandy
Posts: 4751
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 953 times
Has Liked: 238 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by claretandy » Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:07 am

AndrewJB wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:38 am
Did I say "including his pregnant wife"? No? Then can we just stick with facts please?
Well she's in the high risk category, so you kinda are.

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 10088
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4161 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:09 am

The ones using the current situation to politically point score are along the same level as the tossers who are panic buying everything on the shelves, but then it is no surprise really.
These 5 users liked this post: Caballo tiger76 KateR Colburn_Claret Rodneyyouplonker

arise_sir_charge
Posts: 3233
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:36 am
Been Liked: 1768 times
Has Liked: 41 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by arise_sir_charge » Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:29 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:09 am
The ones using the current situation to politically point score are along the same level as the tossers who are panic buying everything on the shelves, but then it is no surprise really.
This!
This user liked this post: Caballo

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:32 am

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:18 am
You'll believe anything that Rupert Murdoch feeds you!.......Unbelievable, open your eyes and think for yourself.
Rupert Murdoch feeds me nothing. Open your eyes and stop taking in what the Guardian, Independent and God knows what far left source is helping to make you take an inappropriate partisan position.

Had there been either a Labour/Libdems/Greens government. They would've had to seek advice from the same chief medical officer and his team. The same advice from the same teams running modelling, which is changing by the hour.
This user liked this post: tiger76

Cryssys
Posts: 468
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:47 pm
Been Liked: 141 times
Has Liked: 28 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by Cryssys » Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:59 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:32 am
Rupert Murdoch feeds me nothing. Open your eyes and stop taking in what the Guardian, Independent and God knows what far left source is helping to make you take an inappropriate partisan position.

Had there been either a Labour/Libdems/Greens government. They would've had to seek advice from the same chief medical officer and his team. The same advice from the same teams running modelling, which is changing by the hour.
The Independent and Guardian are far left? I would agree that they are left of centre but to describe them as far left is pretty ridiculous even by your standards.

But then you have form for this. If you hear criticism of the government or your personal views you immediately hit the left wing/commie/socialist defence button in an attempt to undermine it. Don't criticise me or mine you or I'll call you a commie is your knee jerk response. You're very quick to brand anything that does not agree with your view of the world as far far left or socialist. You fail to recognise that it is perfectly possible and reasonable to take a different view things. Your attitude is blinkered, lazy and stupid.

Yes, we would have had the same advisers who ever was in power. The choice facing those in power is what to do with the advice you are given. Politicians are judged on their choices and based on the available information it seems that some of the choices made in the UK may have been wrong and are certainly inconsistent with those taken by others. To highlight this and question it is only right and proper.

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14566
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:07 am

Lefties complaining about being called lefties or commies when lefties also have that nasty habit of calling righties nazis or similar....


That's how stupid it looks from here.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:26 am

AndrewJB wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:53 am
The Chief Medical Officer didn't tell the government what to do, but set out possible ways forward along with their likely consequences. The government then chose the path - the decision probably balanced against economic impact and other considerations. Your idea that our science (which many say we are a leader in) was different to that of other European countries doesn't stand up well against my idea that the science was the same, but the government chose a different path to those other European countries. For one thing we have Johnson's speech from last week,
when he said many of our loved ones might be taken from us too early. This statement - along with the fact the government hadn't closed down public places and restricted travel, and wasn't testing everyone - suggests that the government chose to let the pandemic run its course, rather than intervene to save lives. This article from Sunday backs up my assertion:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... HuBc6MbxrA

The epidemiologist thought the UK government position (not the position of the chief medical examiner) was a satire.

Over to you.
Andrew, you're oh so quick to dismiss others if their opinion is reflected in certain " right wing newspapers , right wing media" as you like to put it . Does it ever, ever occur to you , that, the newspapers and media that you choose to read , are helping you to form a less objective opinion than you would otherwise have. Had you not read them in the first place?

It doesn't, does it.

I've highlighted your references to "other European countries"

Other European countries have different , unique, needs, strengths, weaknesses, demographics, infrastructure, resources. An example being that the Austrian and Slovenian governments closed their borders Tuesday last week. Where as, the German government didn't do it till Monday this week. Almost a full week behind. There's clearly not a one size fits all approach to tackling this horrendous epidemic.

Your claim that "the science was the same" is fundamentally wrong. The modelling is based on a fast changing , and , very fluid situation. The variables will be changing by the hour. Importantly, initially, the information on which it was based, was coming from China. More recently it has been coming from Italy. The more information, the more accurate the advice should be.

I notice that the author of your column in the , let's say, less than politically neutral Guardian. Is not part of the UK government's advisory team. Therefore, he will definitely not be privy to information regarding, supply chains, infrastructure strengths and weaknesses, armed forces deployment availability, potential reserves capabilities, medical supplies, medical resources, staffing, the very real potential for civil unrest, how to mitigate it and just how quickly this can all be actioned.

Neither do you, nor I.

I notice the column was published on Sunday. Its reasonable to assume he wrote the piece on Saturday 14th. In an extremely fast changing situation like the one the government faces. The same fast changing situation that any government would now be facing. A hell of a lot can happen in an hour, should fresh information come to light, never mind a day or two days!

Which brings me back to this

The one and only reason the PM has changed the government's approach. Is because his advice has now changed.

As a socialist, you'll , no doubt, be familiar with the words of John Maynard Keynes -

"When the facts change, I change my mind - what do you do, sir?"


Whether you like it or not. You have to put your trust in the government, and , more importantly, their medical advisers. Boris Johnson is not a medical expert. Jeremy Corbyn is not a medical expert. Had Corbyn been PM he would've had to seek advice from the same team of specialists.

I genuinely hope that the course of action we take , saves as many lives as is humanly possible. At this moment in time ,whether the government that takes that action , is Red or Blue, is utterly irrelevant. This is absolutely no time for petty point scoring and irrelevant tribal, partisan politics.
These 2 users liked this post: tiger76 Colburn_Claret

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:32 am

Cryssys wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:59 am
The Independent and Guardian are far left? I would agree that they are left of centre but to describe them as far left is pretty ridiculous even by your standards.

But then you have form for this. If you hear criticism of the government or your personal views you immediately hit the left wing/commie/socialist defence button in an attempt to undermine it. Don't criticise me or mine you or I'll call you a commie is your knee jerk response. You're very quick to brand anything that does not agree with your view of the world as far far left or socialist. You fail to recognise that it is perfectly possible and reasonable to take a different view things. Your attitude is blinkered, lazy and stupid.

Yes, we would have had the same advisers who ever was in power. The choice facing those in power is what to do with the advice you are given. Politicians are judged on their choices and based on the available information it seems that some of the choices made in the UK may have been wrong and are certainly inconsistent with those taken by others. To highlight this and question it is only right and proper.
See above.

Cryssys
Posts: 468
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:47 pm
Been Liked: 141 times
Has Liked: 28 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by Cryssys » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:15 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:26 am
Andrew, you're oh so quick to dismiss others if their opinion is reflected in certain " right wing newspapers , right wing media" as you like to put it .
And you're very quick to describe others as commies, socialists, left wingers

Does it ever, ever occur to you , that, the newspapers and media that you choose to read , are helping you to form a less objective opinion than you would otherwise have. Had you not read them in the first place? It doesn't, does it.

So, presumably this also applies to all those who read the Times, Telegraph, Mail, Express, Sun? Or are the people that read those newspapers capable of forming an independent, objective and informed opinions?

I notice that the author of your column in the , let's say, less than politically neutral Guardian.
And how less than politically neutral are the Telegraph, Mail, Express, Sun and Times? There is non such thing as a politically independent newspaper in the UK but what is certain is that there is a significant bias in the UK press in favour of the Conservative Party. Even you must acknowledge that?

Which brings me back to this. The one and only reason the PM has changed the government's approach. Is because his advice has now changed.
How do you know that the advice has changed? How do you know that it isn't because the Government has just changed its mind? As i said in my earlier post above the choice facing those in power is what to do with the advice they are given. Their choices and their responses are what they should be judged on

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:17 pm

Cryssys wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:15 pm
See above.

KateR
Posts: 4139
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:46 pm
Been Liked: 1018 times
Has Liked: 6157 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by KateR » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:26 pm

seriously, this thread has no use to man nor beast, it's a politically driven thread and should be allowed to die in peace, no one is changing anyone else's mind, no one is coming up with anything new from the other years of political threads point scoring, please let it die peacefully.

dsr
Posts: 15139
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by dsr » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:52 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:41 am
Another one of the “science changed” believers. How it works is the government are given the facts by the experts (the same facts other governments were given), and then make decisions based on those facts. The governments of other countries have chosen to take strong action to reduce the number of deaths, and to not overload their health systems. Our government chose not to take such actions, knowing full well it will lead to more deaths. Between a quarter and half a million additional deaths depending on how swift they were about it. Now finally they’ve changed policy - but at what cost all the previous inaction?

This isn’t a party political issue, because had it been a Green or Labour government acting so belatedly I’d be complaining about them too.
You're letting your hatred of Boris Johnson blind you to common sense there.

I'm not really sure whether you are saying that the government's science experts told Johnson the facts of what was known from China but refused to make any predictions and refused to give advice based on their knowledge and experience; because if they did, then it would be true that all governments around the world had the same advice.

Or whether you are believing that the government's science experts did give predictions and advice and those predictions and advice were exactly the same by every scientist in the world.

Or even a combination of both. But it's nonsensical either way.
This user liked this post: Colburn_Claret

HieronymousBoschHobs
Posts: 423
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:26 pm
Been Liked: 140 times
Has Liked: 58 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by HieronymousBoschHobs » Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:46 pm

Damo wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:47 am
You read that quite often I bet Charlie
:?:

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:58 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:52 pm
You're letting your hatred of Boris Johnson blind you to common sense there.

I'm not really sure whether you are saying that the government's science experts told Johnson the facts of what was known from China but refused to make any predictions and refused to give advice based on their knowledge and experience; because if they did, then it would be true that all governments around the world had the same advice.

Or whether you are believing that the government's science experts did give predictions and advice and those predictions and advice were exactly the same by every scientist in the world.

Or even a combination of both. But it's nonsensical either way.
The government received advice from experts, and from that advice chose a plan of action that has since been shown to be wrong, and indeed the government has since changed position from one of letting things take their course, to one of more serious action. The other governments which chose paths of more serious action from the beginning also received advice from their experts (advice that was probably no different to what our government received). The actions of those governments has remained consistent - to reduce the number of deaths.

Our government had the approach that it's better to let the virus run its course and develop a "herd immunity" rather than accept the disruption caused by acting decisively to prevent its spread. The proof in that is there for all to see. Not taking the same steps as other countries, and in Johnson's own words: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -minister/

The facts didn't change, because the WHO and other countries were saying all along, what the government is now belatedly doing.

We now know that modelling showed up to nearly six hundred thousand people could die before August in a "do nothing" scenario, and over a quarter of a million could die in a containment strategy. Once these numbers became public, the government shifted their position. Before that - as I said - they appeared to be quite relaxed about those numbers.

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:04 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:26 am
Andrew, you're oh so quick to dismiss others if their opinion is reflected in certain " right wing newspapers , right wing media" as you like to put it . Does it ever, ever occur to you , that, the newspapers and media that you choose to read , are helping you to form a less objective opinion than you would otherwise have. Had you not read them in the first place?

It doesn't, does it.

I've highlighted your references to "other European countries"

Other European countries have different , unique, needs, strengths, weaknesses, demographics, infrastructure, resources. An example being that the Austrian and Slovenian governments closed their borders Tuesday last week. Where as, the German government didn't do it till Monday this week. Almost a full week behind. There's clearly not a one size fits all approach to tackling this horrendous epidemic.

Your claim that "the science was the same" is fundamentally wrong. The modelling is based on a fast changing , and , very fluid situation. The variables will be changing by the hour. Importantly, initially, the information on which it was based, was coming from China. More recently it has been coming from Italy. The more information, the more accurate the advice should be.

I notice that the author of your column in the , let's say, less than politically neutral Guardian. Is not part of the UK government's advisory team. Therefore, he will definitely not be privy to information regarding, supply chains, infrastructure strengths and weaknesses, armed forces deployment availability, potential reserves capabilities, medical supplies, medical resources, staffing, the very real potential for civil unrest, how to mitigate it and just how quickly this can all be actioned.

Neither do you, nor I.

I notice the column was published on Sunday. Its reasonable to assume he wrote the piece on Saturday 14th. In an extremely fast changing situation like the one the government faces. The same fast changing situation that any government would now be facing. A hell of a lot can happen in an hour, should fresh information come to light, never mind a day or two days!

Which brings me back to this

The one and only reason the PM has changed the government's approach. Is because his advice has now changed.

As a socialist, you'll , no doubt, be familiar with the words of John Maynard Keynes -

"When the facts change, I change my mind - what do you do, sir?"


Whether you like it or not. You have to put your trust in the government, and , more importantly, their medical advisers. Boris Johnson is not a medical expert. Jeremy Corbyn is not a medical expert. Had Corbyn been PM he would've had to seek advice from the same team of specialists.

I genuinely hope that the course of action we take , saves as many lives as is humanly possible. At this moment in time ,whether the government that takes that action , is Red or Blue, is utterly irrelevant. This is absolutely no time for petty point scoring and irrelevant tribal, partisan politics.
See my response to DSR.

As for the Guardian, it's an internationally respected newspaper with award winning journalists. It has never been accused of hacking little girl's phones, or making up stories, or focussing on the lives of celebrities. The Mail, Sun, Telegraph, Express, etc are not newspapers. They are merely the advertising arms of the Tory Party.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:13 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:04 pm
See my response to DSR.

As for the Guardian, it's an internationally respected newspaper with award winning journalists. It has never been accused of hacking little girl's phones, or making up stories, or focussing on the lives of celebrities. The Mail, Sun, Telegraph, Express, etc are not newspapers. They are merely the advertising arms of the Tory Party.
My experience tells me you'll simply blame "the right wing press" , "the Tory Party mouthpieces" , " the far right media" ad infinitum.

Who ever was PM, this virus would have handed them a poison chalice.

An unenviable task of balancing, the natural humanitarian urge to preserve as many lives as is possible. And, trying to ensure that when, God willing, we come out of this horrendous situation. Theres actually a viable economy left to come out to.

The enormity of the task , whoever had to do it. Cannot be underestimated.

I'm done with you.

claretandy
Posts: 4751
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 953 times
Has Liked: 238 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by claretandy » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:21 pm

More evidence that leftist Twitter isn't representative of the real world
Attachments
4.PNG
4.PNG (13.08 KiB) Viewed 3384 times

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by Spijed » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:30 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:52 pm
You're letting your hatred of Boris Johnson blind you to common sense there.

I'm not really sure whether you are saying that the government's science experts told Johnson the facts of what was known from China but refused to make any predictions and refused to give advice based on their knowledge and experience; because if they did, then it would be true that all governments around the world had the same advice.

Or whether you are believing that the government's science experts did give predictions and advice and those predictions and advice were exactly the same by every scientist in the world.

Or even a combination of both. But it's nonsensical either way.
But there was something horribly wrong with the way our government handled this originally as it's now clear that herd immunity is utterly flawed, considering that other countries have gone for lock down.

Taffy on the wing
Posts: 4600
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:41 am
Been Liked: 1020 times
Has Liked: 3163 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by Taffy on the wing » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:28 pm

The bottom line is..... Boris was all for letting it 'run through the herd' and let the chips fall where they may.
He also looks like a Monty Python Upper Class Twit doing it........the man is a Pathological liar and shouldn't be in charge of anything!

Stockbrokerbelt
Posts: 551
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:43 am
Been Liked: 221 times
Has Liked: 137 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by Stockbrokerbelt » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:33 pm

Taffy on the wing, could not have said it better myself, Boris is a chancer & the front for everything that is wrong with the UK.

Vino blanco
Posts: 5345
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:42 pm
Been Liked: 1898 times
Has Liked: 1965 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by Vino blanco » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:36 pm

As expected, a normal, predictable response from taffy, typical of him and his left wing brethren on here. Laughable given the circumstances.

dsr
Posts: 15139
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by dsr » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:38 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:58 pm
The government received advice from experts, and from that advice chose a plan of action that has since been shown to be wrong, and indeed the government has since changed position from one of letting things take their course, to one of more serious action. The other governments which chose paths of more serious action from the beginning also received advice from their experts (advice that was probably no different to what our government received). The actions of those governments has remained consistent - to reduce the number of deaths.

Our government had the approach that it's better to let the virus run its course and develop a "herd immunity" rather than accept the disruption caused by acting decisively to prevent its spread. The proof in that is there for all to see. Not taking the same steps as other countries, and in Johnson's own words: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -minister/

The facts didn't change, because the WHO and other countries were saying all along, what the government is now belatedly doing.

We now know that modelling showed up to nearly six hundred thousand people could die before August in a "do nothing" scenario, and over a quarter of a million could die in a containment strategy. Once these numbers became public, the government shifted their position. Before that - as I said - they appeared to be quite relaxed about those numbers.
You may be right that those two medical gentlemen that flank Boris at his press conferences, are standing there lying about the advice they gave Boris, and flushing their own reputations down the pan to save his, and taking the blame for all those hypothetical deaths when it isn't their fault. Or you may be wrong. I'm going for the latter.

Cryssys
Posts: 468
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:47 pm
Been Liked: 141 times
Has Liked: 28 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by Cryssys » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:55 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:38 pm
You may be right that those two medical gentlemen that flank Boris at his press conferences, are standing there lying about the advice they gave Boris, and flushing their own reputations down the pan to save his, and taking the blame for all those hypothetical deaths when it isn't their fault. Or you may be wrong. I'm going for the latter.
What those gentleman may or may not have said and their reasons is not the issue. The important question is why the UK government has chosen to act the way it has and is it the right thing to do?

The UK response is very different to that seen in many other countries. It's not unreasonable to ask why.

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by Spijed » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:58 pm

Cryssys wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:55 pm
The UK response is very different to that seen in many other countries. It's not unreasonable to ask why.
I think after that report came out about the possibility of 250,000 deaths it does seem the governments strategy is more closely aligned to other countries, especially in shutting schools, theaters etc. I suspect pubs closing is now on the horizon too.

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:14 pm

KateR wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:26 pm
seriously, this thread has no use to man nor beast, it's a politically driven thread and should be allowed to die in peace, no one is changing anyone else's mind, no one is coming up with anything new from the other years of political threads point scoring, please let it die peacefully.
The whole reason for this thread is to inform people about the shortcomings of our so called prime minister. The title: "Boris Watch" kind of gives that away. It's an important thread, because it disseminates information you won't find in the majority of UK newspapers. If you find it boring (did you find all the Corbyn-hate threads boring too?) you don't' have to read it.
This user liked this post: HieronymousBoschHobs

joey13
Posts: 7501
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 1767 times
Has Liked: 1230 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by joey13 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:18 pm

Spijed wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:58 pm
I think after that report came out about the possibility of 250,000 deaths it does seem the governments strategy is more closely aligned to other countries, especially in shutting schools, theaters etc. I suspect pubs closing is now on the horizon too.
You mean the strategy of just washing your hands and relying on herd immunity sorting things out , yes our Prime Minister thought this was ok
As with most “experts” they have zero common sense

KateR
Posts: 4139
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:46 pm
Been Liked: 1018 times
Has Liked: 6157 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by KateR » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:20 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:14 pm
The whole reason for this thread is to inform people about the shortcomings of our so called prime minister. The title: "Boris Watch" kind of gives that away. It's an important thread, because it disseminates information you won't find in the majority of UK newspapers. If you find it boring (did you find all the Corbyn-hate threads boring too?) you don't' have to read it.
I wont be dragged in to the gutter with you or anyone else who posts political point scoring regarding the virus, anything else fine but not this, you're beyond contempt and will not reply to you or anyone else on this thread, I hope that's at least clear for you.

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:23 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:38 pm
You may be right that those two medical gentlemen that flank Boris at his press conferences, are standing there lying about the advice they gave Boris, and flushing their own reputations down the pan to save his, and taking the blame for all those hypothetical deaths when it isn't their fault. Or you may be wrong. I'm going for the latter.
I haven't said the two men flanking Johnson gave false information to him. I'm saying they gave him correct information - that by doing little or nothing, a lot of people will die prematurely. And Johnson's reaction to that was to do little or nothing to begin with. It's not unreasonable to conclude that he was very relaxed about lots of people dying, in comparison to the cost of introducing measures that reduce the number of fatalities. In case you forgot already, this is Johnson telling the country that lots of people were going to die (based on the correct information given to him by medical experts): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -minister/

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:27 pm

KateR wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:20 pm
I wont be dragged in to the gutter with you or anyone else who posts political point scoring regarding the virus, anything else fine but not this, you're beyond contempt and will not reply to you or anyone else on this thread, I hope that's at least clear for you.
I'll say again, that were it the Green Party or Labour in charge and making these heartless decisions, then I'd be criticising them instead. This is merely criticism of bad policy.

joey13
Posts: 7501
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 1767 times
Has Liked: 1230 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by joey13 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:30 pm

Testing now crucial,less than a week ago it wasn’t ,these experts advising are idiots
This user liked this post: tim_noone

HieronymousBoschHobs
Posts: 423
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:26 pm
Been Liked: 140 times
Has Liked: 58 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by HieronymousBoschHobs » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:36 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:14 pm
The whole reason for this thread is to inform people about the shortcomings of our so called prime minister. The title: "Boris Watch" kind of gives that away. It's an important thread, because it disseminates information you won't find in the majority of UK newspapers. If you find it boring (did you find all the Corbyn-hate threads boring too?) you don't' have to read it.
I'm giving up on this forum. We are truly in dark times when anything short of glowing praise for the present administration marks you out for personal abuse.

Mods need to clear this place out before it ends up on a Prevent blacklist.

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:37 pm

joey13 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:30 pm
Testing now crucial,less than a week ago it wasn’t ,these experts advising are idiots
You can bring a donkey to water...

quoonbeatz
Posts: 4491
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:03 am
Been Liked: 2562 times
Has Liked: 757 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by quoonbeatz » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:42 pm

This latest press conference is the worst yet. He's so far out of his depth it's incredible. Man's an absolute w@nker.

joey13
Posts: 7501
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 1767 times
Has Liked: 1230 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by joey13 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:45 pm

Turn the tide within 12 weeks ,complete and utter fantasy
This user liked this post: tim_noone

joey13
Posts: 7501
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 1767 times
Has Liked: 1230 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by joey13 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:45 pm

HieronymousBoschHobs wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:36 pm
I'm giving up on this forum. We are truly in dark times when anything short of glowing praise for the present administration marks you out for personal abuse.

Mods need to clear this place out before it ends up on a Prevent blacklist.
Season 6 starts next week :D

Zlatan
Posts: 5458
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:06 pm
Been Liked: 2229 times
Has Liked: 5739 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by Zlatan » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:46 pm

joey13 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:30 pm
Testing now crucial,less than a week ago it wasn’t ,these experts advising are idiots
Thats a completely fair observation. I do think though he is dealing with it much better than I ever thought he would - but then he had such a low starting point for me he could’ve just stood there and let the experts speak and that would have been enough

joey13
Posts: 7501
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 1767 times
Has Liked: 1230 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by joey13 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:56 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:46 pm
Thats a completely fair observation. I do think though he is dealing with it much better than I ever thought he would - but then he had such a low starting point for me he could’ve just stood there and let the experts speak and that would have been enough
Dealing with it much better ,really ,he’s like a rabbit caught in the headlights to me
This user liked this post: tim_noone

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: Boris Watch

Post by Colburn_Claret » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:26 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:58 pm
The government received advice from experts, and from that advice chose a plan of action that has since been shown to be wrong, and indeed the government has since changed position from one of letting things take their course, to one of more serious action. The other governments which chose paths of more serious action from the beginning also received advice from their experts (advice that was probably no different to what our government received). The actions of those governments has remained consistent - to reduce the number of deaths.

Our government had the approach that it's better to let the virus run its course and develop a "herd immunity" rather than accept the disruption caused by acting decisively to prevent its spread. The proof in that is there for all to see. Not taking the same steps as other countries, and in Johnson's own words: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -minister/

The facts didn't change, because the WHO and other countries were saying all along, what the government is now belatedly doing.

We now know that modelling showed up to nearly six hundred thousand people could die before August in a "do nothing" scenario, and over a quarter of a million could die in a containment strategy. Once these numbers became public, the government shifted their position. Before that - as I said - they appeared to be quite relaxed about those numbers.
Where the hell have you been this last week that you can spout so much ****. I said yesterday, there is a tiny minority on this board who are going to blame Boris no matter what, short of walking on water he will be a failure. You are the chief cheer leader/ cry baby,(take your pick). You're embarrassing, at a time when the country should be pulling together, no matter what political party they support, you're determined to find fault and division. If you are representative of a typical left wing mind set, all you are doing is making people even more happy that Corbyn got stuffed.
Try offering just the slightest bit of positivity to the debate, because the hourly dirge of negativity is boring, unhelpful, and mostly ********.

joey13
Posts: 7501
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 1767 times
Has Liked: 1230 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by joey13 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:46 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:26 pm
Where the hell have you been this last week that you can spout so much ****. I said yesterday, there is a tiny minority on this board who are going to blame Boris no matter what, short of walking on water he will be a failure. You are the chief cheer leader/ cry baby,(take your pick). You're embarrassing, at a time when the country should be pulling together, no matter what political party they support, you're determined to find fault and division. If you are representative of a typical left wing mind set, all you are doing is making people even more happy that Corbyn got stuffed.
Try offering just the slightest bit of positivity to the debate, because the hourly dirge of negativity is boring, unhelpful, and mostly ********.
This is exactly the time you should question so called leaders ,you need to trust your own instincts not someone like Johnson

tim_noone
Posts: 17108
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:12 pm
Been Liked: 4384 times
Has Liked: 15117 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by tim_noone » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:43 pm

joey13 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:45 pm
Turn the tide within 12 weeks ,complete and utter fantasy
I'm in full agreement. And trust your well :D
This user liked this post: joey13

NewClaret
Posts: 13225
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3037 times
Has Liked: 3759 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by NewClaret » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:53 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:12 am
Are you mad?.....i mean it.
Not at all. Think he’s doing a great job. Judging by the latest opinion polls, most agree with me too!

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:57 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:26 pm
Where the hell have you been this last week that you can spout so much ****. I said yesterday, there is a tiny minority on this board who are going to blame Boris no matter what, short of walking on water he will be a failure. You are the chief cheer leader/ cry baby,(take your pick). You're embarrassing, at a time when the country should be pulling together, no matter what political party they support, you're determined to find fault and division. If you are representative of a typical left wing mind set, all you are doing is making people even more happy that Corbyn got stuffed.
Try offering just the slightest bit of positivity to the debate, because the hourly dirge of negativity is boring, unhelpful, and mostly ********.
What kind of things were you expecting to find on a thread called "Boris Watch"? :)

I've already said I'm not politicising the virus, but criticising government policy. As Ringo might say; "that's democracy, sometimes people have views different to yours".

Goodness knows, I've seen lots of things politicised on here before, from anti-Semitism, to the sexual exploitation of working class girls, to Remembrance Day bowing etiquette, to the financial crisis of 2008; and I can't remember any of the people now whining about "politicising things" complaining about it then. Likewise I'm far from the only person who's posted negative things about political parties and figures over the last few years. If you're willing to put it out, then you also have to accept it back.

Maybe you could look at this as a positive opportunity? This forum is probably the only place you encounter such negative opinions about our PM and government. This is your chance to see opinions contrary to those you hold. A chance to gain a balanced viewpoint, and if it ever seems like too much to take in, you can just avoid the thread and return to the Tory rose garden that is your everyday life.

Bfcboyo
Posts: 1965
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:30 pm
Been Liked: 441 times
Has Liked: 355 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by Bfcboyo » Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:17 pm

Tories need to do something for the self employed and the grey area in between. Ltd companies without premises who employ people and won't qualify for any grants as they do not have a business premises qualifying for small business rates. I've already emailed local MP with a response that did not inform me of anything I didn't already know. It should be based on your year end accounts not one single small business rate qualifying criteria.
Second criticism schools with qualifying parents to continue places for pupils shouldn't be both parents. It should be based on importance of the roles served and the 2nd parents status. Example NHS ward manager with working partner who is a professional would still have child care whilst NHS ward manager with partner who is unemployed or part time wouldn't.

joey13
Posts: 7501
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 1767 times
Has Liked: 1230 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by joey13 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:54 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:53 pm
Not at all. Think he’s doing a great job. Judging by the latest opinion polls, most agree with me too!
Who the hell is interested in opinion polls , so last week when he said everyone should wash their hands and thought herd immunity was a good idea is doing a great job , and today he says the tide will turn within 12 weeks ,seriously :shock:

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: Boris Watch

Post by Colburn_Claret » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:23 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:57 pm
What kind of things were you expecting to find on a thread called "Boris Watch"? :)

I've already said I'm not politicising the virus, but criticising government policy. As Ringo might say; "that's democracy, sometimes people have views different to yours".

Goodness knows, I've seen lots of things politicised on here before, from anti-Semitism, to the sexual exploitation of working class girls, to Remembrance Day bowing etiquette, to the financial crisis of 2008; and I can't remember any of the people now whining about "politicising things" complaining about it then. Likewise I'm far from the only person who's posted negative things about political parties and figures over the last few years. If you're willing to put it out, then you also have to accept it back.

Maybe you could look at this as a positive opportunity? This forum is probably the only place you encounter such negative opinions about our PM and government. This is your chance to see opinions contrary to those you hold. A chance to gain a balanced viewpoint, and if it ever seems like too much to take in, you can just avoid the thread and return to the Tory rose garden that is your everyday life.
Nobody's all good or all bad, but you've just set out to criticise him for the sake of it. Theres no objectivity, no reasoning just bullshit bias. No one objects to you having an opinion, or disagreeing with Boris, it's all subjective, but as others have said, you're so blinkered your whole opinion just gets dissed, ignored. We already know that whatever Boris does tomorrow is wrong, and the day after, and the day after that....You just dont win an argument acting like that.

jrgbfc
Posts: 8422
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:30 pm
Been Liked: 2098 times
Has Liked: 336 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by jrgbfc » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:23 pm

I'm sure all the Tories on here would be cutting Jeremy Corbyn some slack if the roles were reversed.....

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:37 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:23 pm
I'm sure all the Tories on here would be cutting Jeremy Corbyn some slack if the roles were reversed.....
I think they've all forgotten their Corbyn rants. Their memories don't even extend beyond the last Tory policy U-turn.

NewClaret
Posts: 13225
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3037 times
Has Liked: 3759 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by NewClaret » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:44 pm

joey13 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:54 pm
Who the hell is interested in opinion polls , so last week when he said everyone should wash their hands and thought herd immunity was a good idea is doing a great job , and today he says the tide will turn within 12 weeks ,seriously :shock:
He told everyone to WASH THEIR HANDS?!? Sack him now!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

And today, he suggested it might be under control in about the same time as China has tackled the virus. Needs shooting, thinking about it!! :lol:

And who cares about opinion polls? Probably the Tories and Labour Party, I’d imagine.

NewClaret
Posts: 13225
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3037 times
Has Liked: 3759 times

Re: Boris Watch

Post by NewClaret » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:47 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:37 pm
I think they've all forgotten their Corbyn rants. Their memories don't even extend beyond the last Tory policy U-turn.
Corbyn would have loved this. He’d have let every company go bust and nationalised them all.

He must be kicking himself now for not backing Brexit.

Locked