Self Employed

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MACCA
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Re: Self Employed

Post by MACCA » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:23 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:49 pm
The word was 'clever'. HTH.
So I was right, a matter of opinion then.
Although they probably a lot cleverer than the majority of us lot on here

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Billy Balfour » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:28 pm

MACCA wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:23 pm
So I was right, a matter of opinion then.
Although they probably a lot cleverer than the majority of us lot on here
Blimey. It was a joke. A poor one at that, but still.

I bet you could start an argument with your own shadow.

MACCA
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Re: Self Employed

Post by MACCA » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:00 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:28 pm
Blimey. It was a joke. A poor one at that, but still.

I bet you could start an argument with your own shadow.
You what?

Do you want some?

:lol:
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ecc
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Re: Self Employed

Post by ecc » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:10 pm

Worst decision of my life -and there's no shortage of choice - was going self-employed.

aggi
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Re: Self Employed

Post by aggi » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:23 am

I would say speak to your accountant, speak to your bank, as soon as you can.

I know we've been sending out pages of guidance and the ICAEW has a good summary of advice
https://www.icaew.com/insights/coronavi ... e-covid-19

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Re: Self Employed

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:38 am

Would appear that the gov will announce help for the self employed in today's press briefing.

Good news if they do.
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Re: Self Employed

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:55 am

taio wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:30 pm
I'm alright Jack.
A fully fledged Furloughed worker as from yesterday, it is what it is, other people will be in the same boat or worse off, I’m hoping the government don’t have reason to extend the 3 mths, if it goes on for that long I’ll be bored s**tless by then as will others.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Pimlico_Claret » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:35 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:55 am
A fully fledged Furloughed worker as from yesterday, it is what it is, other people will be in the same boat or worse off, I’m hoping the government don’t have reason to extend the 3 mths, if it goes on for that long I’ll be bored s**tless by then as will others.
Please consider becoming an NHS volunteer if possible, put your time to good use.
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Grumps
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Re: Self Employed

Post by Grumps » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:55 pm

Boris has said more help will be announced in the next couple of days.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by tiger76 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:48 pm

Grumps wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:55 pm
Boris has said more help will be announced in the next couple of days.
Yes he said in PMQ'S they'll be a detailed announcement tomorrow by the chancellor,great news it means many peeps won't have to commute to work,and hopefully this will ease the pressure on public transport,especially in London.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:01 pm

Pimlico_Claret wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:35 pm
Please consider becoming an NHS volunteer if possible, put your time to good use.
That's already been done matey, I don't mind doing my bit if the country needs me.
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Re: Self Employed

Post by thatdberight » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:12 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:48 pm
Yes he said in PMQ'S they'll be a detailed announcement tomorrow by the chancellor,great news it means many peeps won't have to commute to work,and hopefully this will ease the pressure on public transport,especially in London.
It is good. But I can't wait to see how many self-employed dog walkers, shiatsu practitioners, shamen and children's party entertainers make themselves known... if you dreamt up a perfect scenario for fraud, this would be it.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:15 pm

thatdberight wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:12 pm
It is good. But I can't wait to see how many self-employed dog walkers, shiatsu practitioners, shamen and children's party entertainers make themselves known... if you dreamt up a perfect scenario for fraud, this would be it.
It would be based on some sort of understanding with some sort of financial documentation indicating.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by tiger76 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:26 pm

thatdberight wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:12 pm
It is good. But I can't wait to see how many self-employed dog walkers, shiatsu practitioners, shamen and children's party entertainers make themselves known... if you dreamt up a perfect scenario for fraud, this would be it.
I confess i don't know a huge amount about self-employment,but my uncle used to be a doorman,and he was classed as self-employed,therefore he was liable to submit his own tax returns etc,so there should be some evidence in the HMRC system of prior work you'd hope.

The reality is whatever system any government puts in place,a small minority will try to defraud the state,but the chancellor has to offer the self-employed some incentive to follow the instructions and stay at home,otherwise these measures to curb the spread of this virus won't have the desired effect.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Stanbill05 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:12 am

Great news that the this gap is going to be filled and that those that have provided honest tax returns previously are likely to be comparatively rewarded this time. How you stop people claiming and continuing to work cash in hand I don’t know, but the punishments for those caught should be as severe as those handed out to looters during the riots.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:39 am

tiger76 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:48 pm
Yes he said in PMQ'S they'll be a detailed announcement tomorrow by the chancellor,great news it means many peeps won't have to commute to work,and hopefully this will ease the pressure on public transport,especially in London.
Hopefully the self-employed get an appropriate level of support but why has it taken so long? Hundreds of thousands of people carrying on their normal daily lives for much longer than they should have been.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Grumps » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:46 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:39 am
Hopefully the self-employed get an appropriate level of support but why has it taken so long? Hundreds of thousands of people carrying on their normal daily lives for much longer than they should have been.
I think you have to give the government some leeway in this. They Carnt just flick a switch and it suddenly works, an awful lot of planning and setting processes up needs to take place. It's very doubtful there were any plans in place for an event such as this. For every single person who needs financial help, if they receive it within a month, I would suggest it's been a monumental success in very difficult circumstances.
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Re: Self Employed

Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:55 am

Grumps wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:46 am
I think you have to give the government some leeway in this. They Carnt just flick a switch and it suddenly works, an awful lot of planning and setting processes up needs to take place. It's very doubtful there were any plans in place for an event such as this. For every single person who needs financial help, if they receive it within a month, I would suggest it's been a monumental success in very difficult circumstances.
I appreciate the details take longer to finalise but an announcement to reassure the self-employed they would be supported would have given them the confidence to stay at home knowing this.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by FactualFrank » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:38 pm

UK government unveils aid for self-employed: Self-employed workers will be able to apply for a grant of up to £2,500 a month to help them cope with the financial impact of coronavirus, the chancellor has announced.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52053914?

Will hopefully be a straightforward process.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by dpinsussex » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:03 pm

I left a well paid salaried job last summer to go self employed. No self assessment tax returns. Where does that leave me now?

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Re: Self Employed

Post by IanMcL » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:06 pm

Based on 'profit'.

That's not good for a self employed person!
It's not about profit, for many.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by FactualFrank » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:09 pm

dpinsussex wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:03 pm
I left a well paid salaried job last summer to go self employed. No self assessment tax returns. Where does that leave me now?
If you haven't been self employed for over 12 months apparently, they won't help. I think you need to have at least 1 self-assessment tax return on record.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by conyoviejo » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:19 pm

dpinsussex wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:03 pm
I left a well paid salaried job last summer to go self employed. No self assessment tax returns. Where does that leave me now?
Sorry to hear this DP,life's a bummer somtimes,I've had my fair share of Schite .. Good luck and I'm sure it will work out for you mate. 8-)
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Re: Self Employed

Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:22 pm

"Unlike the employee scheme, the self-employed can continue to work as they receive support."

**** me, I thought they wanted people to stay at home (I appreciate that a lot of self-employed people can work from home but a hell of a lot can't).

I can't go for a drive in the countryside with no intention of getting out of my car, let alone coming into contact with anyone but a builder can go from house to house, to the builder's yard for supplies, no doubt calling into assorted shops on his travels.

Who's the risk to spreading this?

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Burnley1989 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:24 pm

You can’t ban someone from working and say we aren’t going to give you any money until June though.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by dpinsussex » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:36 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:09 pm
If you haven't been self employed for over 12 months apparently, they won't help. I think you need to have at least 1 self-assessment tax return on record.
Well I want my 2500 from employed status then lol
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Re: Self Employed

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:40 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:06 pm
Based on 'profit'.

That's not good for a self employed person!
It's not about profit, for many.
Can't see how the Gov could base it on anything else.
Presumably they are using the profit figure from the latest tax return.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by FactualFrank » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:44 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:40 pm
Can't see how the Gov could base it on anything else.
Presumably they are using the profit figure from the latest tax return.
I've also read it to be an average of the last 3 returns.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Foreverly Claret » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:46 pm

It's a " taxable grant ". I wonder if tax will be deducted at source...if so for some it will be a maximum of £2000 ish .Is it on profit or taxable income ?

Are personal allowances taken into account ? An individual with taxable profit of £24000...say £1600 per month will net £1280 if tax is deducted at source...it would be £1800 plus if PAs were taken into account .

Am I right ?

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Tall Paul » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:54 pm

Foreverly Claret wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:46 pm
It's a " taxable grant ". I wonder if tax will be deducted at source...if so for some it will be a maximum of £2000 ish .Is it on profit or taxable income ?

Are personal allowances taken into account ? An individual with taxable profit of £24000...say £1600 per month will net £1280 if tax is deducted at source...it would be £1800 plus if PAs were taken into account .

Am I right ?
I expect it'll be paid gross and go on the 20/21 tax return as taxable income.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by BurnleyFC » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:06 pm

There’ll be lots of self employed people wishing they hadn’t fiddled the books now.
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Re: Self Employed

Post by aggi » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:09 pm

I wonder if that profit figure will be adjusted for salaries that people have taken (you'd expect a salary up to the point you start paying tax)? Will people take the furloughed salary and that profit figure?

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:16 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:55 am
I appreciate the details take longer to finalise but an announcement to reassure the self-employed they would be supported would have given them the confidence to stay at home knowing this.
Hi TFC, I believe the announcement that something would be sorted out was made over a week ago - maybe same day or day after the 80%, max £2,500 was announced for employees. It's the "how this will be done" that's been announced today.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:18 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:06 pm
Based on 'profit'.

That's not good for a self employed person!
It's not about profit, for many.
If you are self employed your profit is your pay, after you've deducted business expenses. How's that "not good?"

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Tall Paul » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:22 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:09 pm
I wonder if that profit figure will be adjusted for salaries that people have taken (you'd expect a salary up to the point you start paying tax)? Will people take the furloughed salary and that profit figure?
This doesn't appear to apply to directors of limited companies, just the genuinely (technically) self employed, who don't pay themselves salaries.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:24 pm

dpinsussex wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:03 pm
I left a well paid salaried job last summer to go self employed. No self assessment tax returns. Where does that leave me now?
Maybe you can submit your first self assessment tax return on 6-April, immediately the last tax year has ended? Your assessment will include (a) your period of employment - salary and tax paid and (b) your period of self employment - takings less business expenses.

I'm guessing, maybe if you've been submitting VAT returns, you might also have something to "back up" a claim for the grant?

If you use an accountant, maybe they can help...
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Re: Self Employed

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:26 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:09 pm
I wonder if that profit figure will be adjusted for salaries that people have taken (you'd expect a salary up to the point you start paying tax)? Will people take the furloughed salary and that profit figure?
see my post - all your profit is all your salary.... they aren't separate things for self-employed.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Stan8 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:26 pm

I will just continue to work ,I work on my own in garden maintenance don’t see anyone they stay in the house and pay me bank transfer I observe all the safe practices etc and use common sense ,wife just been laid off if I had to wait till June for money would lose everything, do a bit of building site work (stock units ,showhouses ,open spaces they have all been put on hold losing 800 a month ,hopefully tick over and just pay the bills with the remainder of my work .

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Re: Self Employed

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:42 pm

With the tax changes he’ll be introducing, they’ll all be paying it back and then som.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by ceborame » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:46 pm

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Re: Self Employed

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:47 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:42 pm
With the tax changes he’ll be introducing, they’ll all be paying it back and then som.
"There's no such thing as a free lunch" , can't remember who said this

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Re: Self Employed

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:53 pm

Looks like the hundreds of thousands of limited company directors will get nothing much, as they cannot furlough themselves while still doing small scraps of work and even if they did would only get 80% of £719 per month (the rest being dividends). Universal credit the alternative.

Massive balls up by Sunak. People will be picking holes in this for months and years - a universal basic income would have done the job instead, to be handed back at year end if anyone earns over £x on PAYE or on their self assessments (with directors declaring themselves as a close company having to declare company profit instead). That would address 99% of basic needs during this crisis whereas now many of us have no choice but to work and put ourselves and others at risk.

Also, many of these contractors work in hospitals, in IT and the like (many on <£50k due to only having part time work). What can possibly go wrong?

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Re: Self Employed

Post by IanMcL » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:29 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:18 pm
If you are self employed your profit is your pay, after you've deducted business expenses. How's that "not good?"
Because business expenses can occur at different times.
When I was self employed, I had huge income followed by large bill's and low income, then off again.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by FactualFrank » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:57 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:24 pm
Maybe you can submit your first self assessment tax return on 6-April, immediately the last tax year has ended? Your assessment will include (a) your period of employment - salary and tax paid and (b) your period of self employment - takings less business expenses.

I'm guessing, maybe if you've been submitting VAT returns, you might also have something to "back up" a claim for the grant?

If you use an accountant, maybe they can help...
It's just been covered on the BBC News.

This current year can't be included. So waiting until April won't work.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:06 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:53 pm
Looks like the hundreds of thousands of limited company directors will get nothing much, as they cannot furlough themselves while still doing small scraps of work and even if they did would only get 80% of £719 per month (the rest being dividends). Universal credit the alternative.

Massive balls up by Sunak. People will be picking holes in this for months and years - a universal basic income would have done the job instead, to be handed back at year end if anyone earns over £x on PAYE or on their self assessments (with directors declaring themselves as a close company having to declare company profit instead). That would address 99% of basic needs during this crisis whereas now many of us have no choice but to work and put ourselves and others at risk.

Also, many of these contractors work in hospitals, in IT and the like (many on <£50k due to only having part time work). What can possibly go wrong?
It seems there's also some real fiddling to br done here. As far as I can tell, this is available to anybody self employed, even if their income hasn't been affected significantly. And they can still carry on working through it all if they like.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:11 pm

dpinsussex wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:03 pm
I left a well paid salaried job last summer to go self employed. No self assessment tax returns. Where does that leave me now?
Sorry, dp, I've now got summary of conditions from ICAEW (institute of chartered accoutants in england and wales, for anyone not familiar):

these are extracts

only available if average annual taxable earnings are below £50,000;
majority of income has to be from self-employment;
those who started employment after 5 April 2019 are excluded

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:16 pm


Paul Waine
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Re: Self Employed

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:18 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:06 pm
It seems there's also some real fiddling to br done here. As far as I can tell, this is available to anybody self employed, even if their income hasn't been affected significantly. And they can still carry on working through it all if they like.
Take a look at the advice - it will protect those with average earnings over 3 years of less than £50,000 - so, average basic rate taxpayers only. It's for 3 months, so £7,500 total (though it appears the 3 months can be extended). Those who started self-employment last year miss out.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:22 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:29 pm
Because business expenses can occur at different times.
When I was self employed, I had huge income followed by large bill's and low income, then off again.
Agree, IanMcL, but those weeks when you had no expenses and had "huge" income isn't how you calculate your taxable profits. You add it all up over the year - and for this covid-19 grant, you add it all up over 3 years and then check whether the average is above or below £50,000 per year.

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Re: Self Employed

Post by IanMcL » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:41 pm

But I also remember 'strengthening my business' making purchases, to reduce tax!


In fact, a loss, I remember being encouraged to make, to claim back tax from my former, well rewarded employment!
Last edited by IanMcL on Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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