Boris or Corbyn for our crisis

[claretnproud]

do any of you think Corbyn would have handled the crisis better or worse?
strange that dont you think. One is commonly called by first name and the other his last name.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Corbyn, nobody could have handled it worse than Johnson.

[evensteadiereddie]

Are you kidding ? This is the last thread we need on here now.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

That's why people are saying he's the worst Prime Minister we've ever had, he's a lying chancer.
Don't know why anybody thinks that has changed.

[Vino blanco]

I've had enough of this crap, time to log out for quite a while.

[JohnMac]

A 'bite' time some people went off and isolated in their Dacha's

[Barry_Chuckle]

That's why people are saying he's the worst Prime Minister we've ever had, he's a lying chancer.
Don't know why anybody thinks that has changed.

These people you refer to would be Lbour voting remainers I assume?

You've not really got over Brexit have you, time to move on mate.

[Damo]

Turn it in

[Aclaret]

I've had enough of this crap, time to log out for quite a while.

Agreed Vino, I logged out only to log in to say I'm logging out again. Can't move for damn political threads, too many. UTC.

[box_of_frogs]

Wow. Some proper bellwhacks on here.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

These people you refer to would be Lbour voting remainers I assume?

You've not really got over Brexit have you, time to move on mate.

Like I care about Brexit.

Simple fact is the bloke that is supposed to protect us from all this has caught it himself because he didn't act fast enough.

Joke prime minister, if he gets it worse the NHS should refuse to treat him.

[Fenwick]

Absolutely no difference ( through gritted teeth ) More important things to worry about

[Goalposts]

seriously..

[BurnleyFC]

Corbyn would probably be apologising to Ireland on Britain’s behalf for infecting them with Coronavirus.

The terrorist-sympathising old fool.

[boatshed bill]

Even as a Labour voter, I doubt Corbyn could have done any better. But the curerent healthcare problem is one (to some extent) created by Tory cuts.

[IanMcL]

Manufacturers of medical equipment passed over by Government in favour of consortia, without experience...who are yet to produce anything.

Hospitals and other key personnel like care workers, remain without personal protection equipment.

Ventilators woefully lacking.

UK missed the bulk order set up by EU at best rates and fastest delivery.

Very few people tested, owing to hardly any testing kits.

Only USA is worse thanks to Ostrich President, who thinks it will disappear by Easter.

PM Johnson and his cronies are inadequate and favouring their buddies.

Mr C....unknown. He could still be pondering, although he seemed very sharp at the last PMQs.

I hope we all survive Mr Johnson.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Even as a Labour voter, I doubt Corbyn could have done any better. But the curerent healthcare problem is one (to some extent) created by Tory cuts.

Created by successive governments, both Labour and Tory

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I think another 3 month break from this forum could be in order for me...

[KateR]

never seen so many uneducated people have so much to say about so little they don't have a clue about.

You just couldn't stick with your Boris Bashing thread could you, was it because Tony threatened you that you had to start another one, I mean really you are a pathetic bunch of little moaning old men, remind me so much of my grandfather when I was little. He knew everything also, I'm beginning to despair, the usual clique rapidly turning into a cult, que Andrew, your, leader to be along soon to educate his comrades.

Plus this will be like chum in the water for a great white like Ringo, sad really, very sad.

[boatshed bill]

Created by successive governments, both Labour and Tory

Yes, you are probably right. But most socialists would describe Blair as a closet tory, which is probably how he got in.

[RingoMcCartney]

never seen so many uneducated people have so much to say about so little they don't have a clue about.

You just couldn't stick with your Boris Bashing thread could you, was it because Tony threatened you that you had to start another one, I mean really you are a pathetic bunch of little moaning old men, remind me so much of my grandfather when I was little. He knew everything also, I'm beginning to despair, the usual clique rapidly turning into a cult, que Andrew, your, leader to be along soon to educate his comrades.

Plus this will be like chum in the water for a great white like Ringo, sad really, very sad.

From Fullfact.org -


Claim

The number of hospital beds fell by 25,000 in the last six years of the last Labour government.

Conclusion

Correct, the number of overnight beds in the English NHS actually fell by slightly more—about 26,000—between 2003/04 and 2009/10.

https://fullfact.org/health/number-hosp ... s-falling/

[Burnley1989]

Notice there’s only a handful on here share the opinion though.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

never seen so many uneducated people have so much to say about so little they don't have a clue about.

You just couldn't stick with your Boris Bashing thread could you, was it because Tony threatened you that you had to start another one, I mean really you are a pathetic bunch of little moaning old men, remind me so much of my grandfather when I was little. He knew everything also, I'm beginning to despair, the usual clique rapidly turning into a cult, que Andrew, your, leader to be along soon to educate his comrades.

Plus this will be like chum in the water for a great white like Ringo, sad really, very sad.

Wrongo is a joke, everybody's had him and his other accounts on their ignore list for years.

[Burnley1989]

Manufacturers of medical equipment passed over by Government in favour of consortia, without experience...who are yet to produce anything.

Hospitals and other key personnel like care workers, remain without personal protection equipment.

Ventilators woefully lacking.

UK missed the bulk order set up by EU at best rates and fastest delivery.

Very few people tested, owing to hardly any testing kits.

Only USA is worse thanks to Ostrich President, who thinks it will disappear by Easter.

PM Johnson and his cronies are inadequate and favouring their buddies.

Mr C....unknown. He could still be pondering, although he seemed very sharp at the last PMQs.

I hope we all survive Mr Johnson.

Is this the sane person that went to a bloody council meeting when he was supposed to be on lock down?

[RingoMcCartney]

never seen so many uneducated people have so much to say about so little they don't have a clue about.

You just couldn't stick with your Boris Bashing thread could you, was it because Tony threatened you that you had to start another one, I mean really you are a pathetic bunch of little moaning old men, remind me so much of my grandfather when I was little. He knew everything also, I'm beginning to despair, the usual clique rapidly turning into a cult, que Andrew, your, leader to be along soon to educate his comrades.

Plus this will be like chum in the water for a great white like Ringo, sad really, very sad.

While the government is creating fully functioning and staffed hospitals to treat, literally 1000's of patients, out of thin air

I predict a reference to right wing press/media Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph, The Sun, Rupert Murdoch in


5....4.....3.....2.....1....

[KateR]

Wrongo is a joke, everybody's had him and his other accounts on their ignore list for years.

if only you would ignore him, but you don't do you? The funny thing is that so much of what he has said over years is true, you and all the other haters don't like his delivery and I understand why, same with Lowbank lately.

[RingoMcCartney]

Wrongo is a joke, everybody's had him and his other accounts on their ignore list for years.

Why , on earth , would I want to log in under a different user name, when I wipe the floor with each one of your merry band. On a regular and consistent basis. Why give somebody else the credit for winning arguments by simply expressing what the vast majority of right minded people in the real world think?

I leave those who wish to have more than one account to those who previously bragged about " taking part in verbal Guerilla warfare " (evensreadiereddie) on another football teams message board of all places, for God's sake! Glad we cleared that up chum.

[IanMcL]

Is this the sane person that went to a bloody council meeting when he was supposed to be on lock down?

Quite the opposite of lockdown at that point!
It's called duty.

[IanMcL]

Created by successive governments, both Labour and Tory

Actually, Tony Blair's Government did more for the health service than any since its creation. Buildings and proper pay for the nurses.

[CardyTheClaret]

Only USA is worse thanks to Ostrich President

China? Spain? Italy? Germany? France?

Ah, you don’t have an agenda against any of those countries leaders. Seriously, stop being a dick.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I think another 3 month break from this forum could be in order for me...

Noooo we need the wise old ‘neutral’.

At least give us your two new twitter accounts.

[AndrewJB]

Even as a Labour voter, I doubt Corbyn could have done any better. But the curerent healthcare problem is one (to some extent) created by Tory cuts.

I don’t think any other party would have aimed at herd immunity - which, in the absence of a vaccine is just a kind of eugenics in this country (small and joined up). I also don’t think any other party would have passed up the opportunity to work with the EU to source equipment and work together. From these two points, I’d also say any other party would have gone for a greater testing regime.

The biggest problems we face now are; not enough equipment, and not enough testing. We don’t know where the cases will come from, and can only guess how many will come. It’s a purely reactive regime - and this means we can’t allocate resources intelligently.

The initial aim at herd immunity (eugenics - let those who won’t make it die) meant the government could avoid the expense of millions of testing kits, and also keep everything business as usual (until they or the public realised the scale of the casualties), and so were a week or so late with everything else - allowing the virus to spread beyond their control. That’s how I see it, and I can’t imagine another party putting money before people in that way.

Sunak’s budget reprieve for families was therefore a weak late. And then it took another week before he had anything for the self employed. He looked after business first, and then small business. I don’t think any other party would have had this priority.

So I think things could have been quite different under Labour or the LibDems, or pretty much any combination of others. My opinion, of course, and I’ve insulted nobody in presenting it.

[RingoMcCartney]

Actually, Tony Blair's Government did more for the health service than any since its creation. Buildings and proper pay for the nurses.

From Fullfsct.org -

26th Nov 2019

Claim

The NHS is getting an extra £34 billion, that’s the biggest increase in modern memory.

Conclusion

The £34 billion is a spending increase in real terms of £20.5 billion between 2018/19 and 2023/24. The last time spending increased by at least that amount was between 2004/05 and 2009/10.

https://fullfact.org/election-2019/nhs- ... est-boost/

[Bertiebeehead]

Quite the opposite of lockdown at that point!
It's called duty.

Parish boundaries sorted, what a relief in these times of turmoil!

[AndrewJB]

never seen so many uneducated people have so much to say about so little they don't have a clue about.

You just couldn't stick with your Boris Bashing thread could you, was it because Tony threatened you that you had to start another one, I mean really you are a pathetic bunch of little moaning old men, remind me so much of my grandfather when I was little. He knew everything also, I'm beginning to despair, the usual clique rapidly turning into a cult, que Andrew, your, leader to be along soon to educate his comrades.

Plus this will be like chum in the water for a great white like Ringo, sad really, very sad.

Your contribution is to insult people. That's not a complaint, but an observation. You've suggested before that my posts are boring. Now that you've described Ringo as a "great white" I understand you're not talking about my style of writing, but my opinions. You're always welcome to discuss these with me, but I get the impression from your insults you'd rather me be silent, as though unwilling to even contemplate ideas that challenge your "truths". As Thatcher (who I sometimes wonder whether you're attempting to emulate) once said; "When they attack me personally, I know they haven't got a political argument left".

[Jakubclaret]

I don’t think any other party would have aimed at herd immunity - which, in the absence of a vaccine is just a kind of eugenics in this country (small and joined up). I also don’t think any other party would have passed up the opportunity to work with the EU to source equipment and work together. From these two points, I’d also say any other party would have gone for a greater testing regime.

The biggest problems we face now are; not enough equipment, and not enough testing. We don’t know where the cases will come from, and can only guess how many will come. It’s a purely reactive regime - and this means we can’t allocate resources intelligently.

The initial aim at herd immunity (eugenics - let those who won’t make it die) meant the government could avoid the expense of millions of testing kits, and also keep everything business as usual (until they or the public realised the scale of the casualties), and so were a week or so late with everything else - allowing the virus to spread beyond their control. That’s how I see it, and I can’t imagine another party putting money before people in that way.

Sunak’s budget reprieve for families was therefore a weak late. And then it took another week before he had anything for the self employed. He looked after business first, and then small business. I don’t think any other party would have had this priority.

So I think things could have been quite different under Labour or the LibDems, or pretty much any combination of others. My opinion, of course, and I’ve insulted nobody in presenting it.

At this stage it makes no difference with the testing kits, with or without confirmation you are still supposed to be in isolation confined indoors unless it’s essential & the measures implemented are designed to avoid infection, if you are confirmed or suspected with the symptoms there’s no treatment or vaccine yet, for all intent & purposes having the kits now will be of little benefit to the joe public, I understand the need & a greater sense of urgency for the frontline workers.

[IanMcL]

China? Spain? Italy? Germany? France?

Ah, you don’t have an agenda against any of those countries leaders. Seriously, stop being a dick.

USA is the worst and their president thinks it will be gone by Easter.

Who needs an agenda, when the March Hare (or should that be hair in this case?) Is active in Wonderland?

[KateR]

Your contribution is to insult people. That's not a complaint, but an observation. You've suggested before that my posts are boring. Now that you've described Ringo as a "great white" I understand you're not talking about my style of writing, but my opinions. You're always welcome to discuss these with me, but I get the impression from your insults you'd rather me be silent, as though unwilling to even contemplate ideas that challenge your "truths". As Thatcher (who I sometimes wonder whether you're attempting to emulate) once said; "When they attack me personally, I know they haven't got a political argument left".

Andrew,
I tried discussing things with you for what seems like years, however in reality it was actually only one discussion and one opinion you had, for me you are like many fanatics, you are entrenched in your dogma of everything Tory is bad and BJ lies. I tried several times to rationale with you that everything Tory could not be bad but you rejected that discussion and line of thought. Once I finally came to that conclusion then the only path forward for me is not to try and have a discussion with you as it is pointless and leads no where and therefore you are absolutely right, there is no political argument that anyone could bring to the table that you would consider. My point in this post or if you like insult, was not aimed at you alone but aimed at all the people trying to score points on the Boris thread, both sides, the main point was all of you had the Boris thread to insult each other. I told you in particular, that I would not argue with you, discuss with you regarding what the Gov. is or isn't doing regarding the C-19 and the Economical issues everyone is suffering from on that thread.

I wont argue with you here either, knock yourself out, don't expect a reply here either and if you wish to believe you have won on your points being right and that's why I wont respond then enjoy it. No doubt you will be the cheerleader on the Trump thread to and it will be a similar discussion.

Have a great weekend and stay safe.

[CardyTheClaret]

USA is the worst and their president thinks it will be gone by Easter.

Who needs an agenda, when the March Hare (or should that be hair in this case?) Is active in Wonderland?

So, the UK are second behind the US?

[AlargeClaret]

Whichever idiotic feckwit started this thread deserves a hard slap off both Boris and Jezza . Simply turning the forum into Twitter. Time for a break

[dpinsussex]

Actually, Tony Blair's Government did more for the health service than any since its creation. Buildings and proper pay for the nurses.

Is that the same proper pay that Corbyn and his labour supporters are blaming a conservative government for not paying our nurses a fair wage???

[TheFamilyCat]

Fairly pointless discussing what another PM/party might or might not have done but I see no issue in sensible conversation about what has been done to date, however I don't think we'll know the impact of the decisions until we get this under control.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Fairly pointless discussing what another PM/party might or might not have done but I see no issue in sensible conversation about what has been done to date, however I don't think we'll know the impact of the decisions until we get this under control.

Dr Richard Horton of The Lancet:

The government’s Contain-Delay-Mitigate-Research plan had failed. “It failed, in part, because ministers didn’t follow WHO’s advice to ‘test, test, test’ every suspected case. They didn’t isolate and quarantine. They didn’t contact trace.

“These basic principles of public health and infectious disease control were ignored, for reasons that remain opaque.

“The result has been chaos and panic across the NHS.”

Dr Horton’s warning came as the UK saw its biggest day-on-day rise in deaths since the Covid-19 outbreak began, while Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock said they had tested positive for the virus and frontline testing of NHS workers was set to begin.

Dr Horton also expressed concerns over the government’s new Suppress-Shield-Treat-Palliate plan. “This plan, agreed far too late in the course of the outbreak, has left the NHS wholly unprepared for the surge of severely and critically ill patients that will soon come,” he wrote.

It is hard to imagine anyone doing a worse job than Johnson, no wonder he's now known as "the worst Prime Minister in history."

[taio]

Dr Richard Horton of The Lancet:

The government’s Contain-Delay-Mitigate-Research plan had failed. “It failed, in part, because ministers didn’t follow WHO’s advice to ‘test, test, test’ every suspected case. They didn’t isolate and quarantine. They didn’t contact trace.

“These basic principles of public health and infectious disease control were ignored, for reasons that remain opaque.

“The result has been chaos and panic across the NHS.”

Dr Horton’s warning came as the UK saw its biggest day-on-day rise in deaths since the Covid-19 outbreak began, while Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock said they had tested positive for the virus and frontline testing of NHS workers was set to begin.

Dr Horton also expressed concerns over the government’s new Suppress-Shield-Treat-Palliate plan. “This plan, agreed far too late in the course of the outbreak, has left the NHS wholly unprepared for the surge of severely and critically ill patients that will soon come,” he wrote.

It is hard to imagine anyone doing a worse job than Johnson, no wonder he's now known as "the worst Prime Minister in history."

The result hasn't been chaos and panic across the NHS. There are many Trusts that have seen a noticeable drop in demand in the last few weeks - A&E attendances down, emergency admissions down, delayed transfers of care down. The NHS and other government departments have done a great deal to prepare in a very short period of time. Things are about to get really difficult for NHS and other public bodies but they will be ready to respond as best they can - the planning and mobilisation effort has been immense.

[Greenmile]

Well I’m not sure who to believe now. Dr Horton of The Lancet, or taio, of UTC.

[taio]

Well I’m not sure who to believe now. Dr Horton of The Lancet, or taio, of UTC.

That's a pathetic response. Do you not realise that there are different views from experts and Dr Horton is just one opinion?.Which bit about my post did you particularly disagree with? Demand down in many Trusts? It's all well a good sitting on the sidelines pointing the finger but the response from so many public bodies including the NHS has been tremendous.

[AndrewJB]

The result hasn't been chaos and panic across the NHS. There are many Trusts that have seen a noticeable drop in demand in the last few weeks - A&E attendances down, emergency admissions down, delayed transfers of care down. The NHS and other government departments have done a great deal to prepare in a very short period of time. Things are about to get really difficult for NHS and other public bodies but they will be ready to respond as best they can - the planning and mobilisation effort has been immense.

The problem is that not every area of the country is the same, and because we didn’t test and trace at the beginning, we lost the initiative over the virus, so it could become a problem (or not) just about anywhere. When the government ordered a partial lockdown, a lot of people travelled to second homes, making this potentially worse.

[Joe14]

Reading through some of these threads and its clear peoples alcohol and drug intake is on the up

[taio]

The problem is that not every area of the country is the same, and because we didn’t test and trace at the beginning, we lost the initiative over the virus, so it could become a problem (or not) just about anywhere. When the government ordered a partial lockdown, a lot of people travelled to second homes, making this potentially worse.

Yes it could and is likely to become a problem everywhere. I'm saying it's incredible what the NHS and the public bodies have done and continue to do to prepare for that. Substantial initivitaves planned and implemented in days or sometimes hours, which would normally take months.

[Caballo]

Never really got the hysteria around bed numbers. 25yrs ago I had an inguinal hernia op, it was 3hrs, I was in hospital 5 days and have a six inch scar. It's now a 1hr outpatient procedure and you end up with 3 half inch long knicks. That's just 1 common operation that advances have massively reduced bed requirements.