Covid-19

[Devils_Advocate]

You would wonder what sort of a graph would compare the raw numbers of deaths in Netherlands and the USA. A not very well thought through one, that's for sure.

Quick question what do you mean by this comment please

[paulatky]

Agreed it’s a monumental logistical achievement which the army are well placed to organise. However we should be very careful in exaggerating the capabilities of this centre. It is certainly not a fully functioning hospital. There are several major concerns about how this will function.

1. Stripping of staff from existing NHS hospitals which are already stretched to the max

2. Major relaxation of appropriate staffing levels. 1 ICU nurse to 6 patients (with non-qualified staff as back up)
1 ICU consultant to 42 patients
When you add in the shift patterns that’s an unbelievable number of staff removed from their normal hospitals.

3. Utilisation of medical students and newly qualified nurses. Really? Hardly an appropriate environment to start learning intensive care medicine.

4. Strict criteria on admissions. The plan is to only take the youngest and fittest patients. Single organ failure only. Patients that deteriorate further will need transferring back to the NHS requiring huge resources to facilitate.

5. Transfer of patients from admitting NHS hospitals to Excel after initial stabilisation - again very resource heavy procedure.

6. What equipment are they using? One thing that has barely been mentioned is what types of ventilators will be used. This will make a massive difference both in terms of management and also staff familiarity.

While we need extra capacity and I applaud that initiative I remain to be convinced this is the answer.

We are where we are . There is no other alternative

[paulatky]

Agreed it’s a monumental logistical achievement which the army are well placed to organise. However we should be very careful in exaggerating the capabilities of this centre. It is certainly not a fully functioning hospital. There are several major concerns about how this will function.

1. Stripping of staff from existing NHS hospitals which are already stretched to the max

2. Major relaxation of appropriate staffing levels. 1 ICU nurse to 6 patients (with non-qualified staff as back up)
1 ICU consultant to 42 patients
When you add in the shift patterns that’s an unbelievable number of staff removed from their normal hospitals.

3. Utilisation of medical students and newly qualified nurses. Really? Hardly an appropriate environment to start learning intensive care medicine.

4. Strict criteria on admissions. The plan is to only take the youngest and fittest patients. Single organ failure only. Patients that deteriorate further will need transferring back to the NHS requiring huge resources to facilitate.

5. Transfer of patients from admitting NHS hospitals to Excel after initial stabilisation - again very resource heavy procedure.

6. What equipment are they using? One thing that has barely been mentioned is what types of ventilators will be used. This will make a massive difference both in terms of management and also staff familiarity.

While we need extra capacity and I applaud that initiative I remain to be convinced this is the answer.

We are where we are . There is no other alternative

[RingoMcCartney]

No I said that IF they have not been socially distancing as another poster who had seen a video is suggesting that would be stupid - in the same way that when video clips of builders not socially distancing on a building site has been universally condemned.

But it’s hardly surprising that you decide to twist it and lie - it’s what you do.

Not disingenuous at all are you ?

“Stay safe”

No they have put other lives at risks - social distancing is not primarily about protecting yourself..it’s about limiting transmission and contacts.
I have not seen the video but if they have not been adhering to social distancing guidelines that is not heroic - it’s stupid.

Now the semantics start. You said "they have put others lives at risk" . That's "have". So please don't try and back peddle on the thrust of what you were saying. You described the actions of those selfless people as "stupid".

Comparing them to lads on a building site is poor form. Unlike builders , they're part of a unprecedented effort to set up a hospital to save peoples lives for God's sake.

The country is already divided as it is. Its come to something, when a hospital has been created , in 9 days, to save peoples lives. Some amongst us cannot find it within themselves to give credit where credits due.

[AlargeClaret]

Tbh though...this is to much to late... and akin to after the Horse as Bolted.

Tbf Tim the actual physical field hospitals aren’t too late as such as ( suprisingly) icu capacity is more or less holding out so overspill can start without endless official emergency’s being triggered all over the country . I don’t think you can ever be “ too early “with this kinda thing though . Though there’s plenty of other things like testing where we’re very late to the party gotta be said

[Jakubclaret]

Agreed it’s a monumental logistical achievement which the army are well placed to organise. However we should be very careful in exaggerating the capabilities of this centre. It is certainly not a fully functioning hospital. There are several major concerns about how this will function.

1. Stripping of staff from existing NHS hospitals which are already stretched to the max

2. Major relaxation of appropriate staffing levels. 1 ICU nurse to 6 patients (with non-qualified staff as back up)
1 ICU consultant to 42 patients
When you add in the shift patterns that’s an unbelievable number of staff removed from their normal hospitals.

3. Utilisation of medical students and newly qualified nurses. Really? Hardly an appropriate environment to start learning intensive care medicine.

4. Strict criteria on admissions. The plan is to only take the youngest and fittest patients. Single organ failure only. Patients that deteriorate further will need transferring back to the NHS requiring huge resources to facilitate.

5. Transfer of patients from admitting NHS hospitals to Excel after initial stabilisation - again very resource heavy procedure.

6. What equipment are they using? One thing that has barely been mentioned is what types of ventilators will be used. This will make a massive difference both in terms of management and also staff familiarity.

While we need extra capacity and I applaud that initiative I remain to be convinced this is the answer.

Where’s the other? If theirs 7 concerns you’ve listed 6.

[Lowbankclaret]

The UK is counting all deaths. The adjustment as of earlier this week was an extra 40 deaths. Still, no point wasting an opportunity to suggest something more.

Apologies, must have missed that in everything else I have read.

[RingoMcCartney]

OK. It was a slightly narrower question but let's see how 67% disapproval of the testing capacity issue plays to overall approval of the CoVid19 handling next time that's asked.

You're right though - not exactly the same question .

Thank you.


This nightmarish situation is a poisoned chalice for any government to have to manage. Mistakes will be made. Why? Because humans make mistakes. However, the vast majority of people in this country, according to the latest opinion polls. Seem prepared to accept that in a none perfect world, that is changing hourly, the government is making decent fist of it on our behalf.

Rather than lashing out and needlessly finger pointing and sniping, while we're in the eye of the storm. Why not see how things pan out, look at the bigger picture and allow time, to give us the benefit of objectivity, proportion and a rational assessment of how the government , and ALL governments did and what lessons can be learned, should , God forbid, we have to face another pandemic in the future.

[DavidEyresLeftFoot]

Where’s the other? If theirs 7 concerns you’ve listed 6.

several....

[RingoMcCartney]

Agreed it’s a monumental logistical achievement which the army are well placed to organise. However we should be very careful in exaggerating the capabilities of this centre. It is certainly not a fully functioning hospital. There are several major concerns about how this will function.

1. Stripping of staff from existing NHS hospitals which are already stretched to the max

2. Major relaxation of appropriate staffing levels. 1 ICU nurse to 6 patients (with non-qualified staff as back up)
1 ICU consultant to 42 patients
When you add in the shift patterns that’s an unbelievable number of staff removed from their normal hospitals.

3. Utilisation of medical students and newly qualified nurses. Really? Hardly an appropriate environment to start learning intensive care medicine.

4. Strict criteria on admissions. The plan is to only take the youngest and fittest patients. Single organ failure only. Patients that deteriorate further will need transferring back to the NHS requiring huge resources to facilitate.

5. Transfer of patients from admitting NHS hospitals to Excel after initial stabilisation - again very resource heavy procedure.

6. What equipment are they using? One thing that has barely been mentioned is what types of ventilators will be used. This will make a massive difference both in terms of management and also staff familiarity.

While we need extra capacity and I applaud that initiative I remain to be convinced this is the answer.

Alargeclaret has summed up pretty much what I would have said in his reply to tim noone. I'll just add that as tim said, the horse may have bolted for some. Time will tell. However, if going forward, it saves just one life. It was worth it.....

[Lowbankclaret]

Quick question what do you mean by this comment please

He just has to find fault with EVERYTHING I put on here.

That one made no sense at all.

Hey ho , bickering starts again!!

[RingoMcCartney]

Prince Charles praises heroes 'making impossible possible' as Nightingale hospital opens

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-52150598

[Jakubclaret]

several....

Several means 7 or more, I don’t disagree with the 6 listed by the way, I can’t believe some people are having a moan about a new hospital getting built to be fair, not implying you are, yes there will be teething problems & it’s not an established hospital it’s a makeshift operation to divert away from the other hospitals it’s especially designed to be that way, improvements will be ongoing.

[Spijed]

Several means 7 or more, I don’t disagree with the 6 listed by the way, I can’t believe some people are having a moan about a new hospital getting built to be fair, not implying you are, yes there will be teething problems & it’s not an established hospital it’s a makeshift operation to divert away from the other hospitals it’s especially designed to be that way, improvements will be ongoing.

But it seems odd that with all these new hospitals doctors are still being told that an awful lot of people will have to be left to die through lack of capacity.

[DavidEyresLeftFoot]

Alargeclaret has summed up pretty much what I would have said in his reply to tim noone.

The point is that physical hospital space isn't the issue at the minute. It's equipment and the trained staff capable of managing that equipment. Both of those are diluted by moving patients to a separate site.

[TVC15]

Now the semantics start. You said "they have put others lives at risk" . That's "have". So please don't try and back peddle on the thrust of what you were saying. You described the actions of those selfless people as "stupid".

Comparing them to lads on a building site is poor form. Unlike builders , they're part of a unprecedented effort to set up a hospital to save peoples lives for God's sake.

The country is already divided as it is. Its come to something, when a hospital has been created , in 9 days, to save peoples lives. Some amongst us cannot find it within themselves to give credit where credits due.

You really are pathetic
Comparing them to builders on a building site is about social distancing not their occupation. That building site could very easily be a site where they are building a new hospital. Why should one set of workers be treated any different from another if they are all classified as carrying out essential work ?

They are putting other peoples lives at risk if they were not adhering to social distancing guidelines - if that is what they were doing as this is the 3rd time I have said I have not seen the video.

It’s not my fault you do not understand social distancing or the purpose of it.

I have also already said that this is a positive and needed thing....but you are as you always try and do twist things. Would you say the same thing if a video emerged of frontline doctors not socially distancing ? Would it not be wrong “stupid” of them to be breaking guidelines just because the rest of their work and what they do is heroic ?

[Jakubclaret]

But it seems odd that with all these new hospitals doctors are still being told that an awful lot of people will have to be left to die through lack of capacity.

It’s a possibility, I’m not sure what numbers there are anticipating I think they could be going higher & playing safe hence the warnings, you will always get extra demand at peak points, nothing can be 100% accurately predicted as opposed to guesstimates.

[Lowbankclaret]

So the analysts and Mr Hancock are thinking it could be Easter weekend when we hit our peak. They think it’s going to leak at around 1000 deaths a day.
Today was 684, still climbing.

[Damo]

Scotland have announced another 46 deaths. I hope that trend does not follow through the country.
Our graph is not looking good already . Look at our angle compared to Italy.

E74CAF56-D3A4-44BE-BC2D-C94EFE6E79C3.jpeg

Just looking at that graph, how is it that the German response is being lauded so highly, when its trajectory is higher than the UK's?

[Zlatan]

Several means 7 or more

Are you sure? I have checked, and googled, and whilst there are some interpretations that claim this, I think you’re wrong. Only picking up on it because of the petty use of it.

[CombatClaret]

Just looking at that graph, how is it that the German response is being lauded so highly, when its trajectory is higher than the UK's?

It's likely their curve will flatten much sooner and peak far lower. Seen here it's just about to cross under France. UK & US, bang zoom straight to the moon...

http___com.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-eu.s3.amazonaws (1).png (176.64 KiB) Viewed 3433 times

[TVC15]

So the analysts and Mr Hancock are thinking it could be Easter weekend when we hit our peak. They think it’s going to leak at around 1000 deaths a day.
Today was 684, still climbing.

NHS staff have been told the 12th April as the anticipated peak day. This is of course subject to constant review but this is what they were advised earlier this week.
It is looking like we will reach the 1000 deaths a day figure in the next few days - an unbelievably tragic milestone.

[CombatClaret]

NHS staff have been told the 12th April as the anticipated peak day. This is of course subject to constant review but this is what they were advised earlier this week.
It is looking like we will reach the 1000 deaths a day figure in the next few days - an unbelievably tragic milestone.

I don't see how our curve (currently straight line) reaches it's apex in 11 days, I think this is another optimistic projection from the feel good/adjust later ministers.

[Jakubclaret]

Are you sure? I have checked, and googled, and whilst there are some interpretations that claim this, I think you’re wrong. Only picking up on it because of the petty use of it.

Yes you are right, there are different interpretations, some people say it means 3 or many meaning no specific number, the website I looked said 7 or more, so I was wrong holding him to 7 when any number over 3 would have been sufficient.

[thatdberight]

Quick question what do you mean by this comment please

Without some sort of standardisation for population size, I'm not sure what I'd read into things. I haven't thought through what I'd expect to change or who it would make look better or worse, I just wouldn't want to have a graph that had total deaths in USA and Netherlands to the same scale.

[thatdberight]

Where’s the other? If theirs 7 concerns you’ve listed 6.

Edit - already dealt with

[TVC15]

Just looking at that graph, how is it that the German response is being lauded so highly, when its trajectory is higher than the UK's?

There is still a degree of scepticism out there over the numbers in Germany. A lot of this relates to how they have supposedly undertaken their testing in terms of demographics / age of people tested etc.
The comparison between various countries are inevitable and there are some definite trends emerging but it’s also the case that some big differences exist amongst different countries - cultural, geographical, demographics, health infrastructure, measures taken etc to name but a few.

[martin_p]

I don't see how our curve (currently straight line) reaches it's apex in 11 days, I think this is another optimistic projection from the feel good/adjust later ministers.

We’ve only been in lockdown for eleven/twelve days, the impact of that won’t have been reflected in the figures yet. But if the curve hasn’t started to flatten in another week or so I don’t know where we go.

[Jakubclaret]

"Several" <> 7

I’ve already accepted I was wrong based on a iffy website, it’s widely accepted anything over 3 constitutes several, like zlatan says there are different interpretations to several, I don’t think I’ll be first or the last to be making that same mistake but by all means you carry on arguing about it to yourself when I’ve accepted it was my mistake I won’t be joining in.

[CombatClaret]

We’ve only been in lockdown for eleven/twelve days, the impact of that won’t have been reflected in the figures yet. But if the curve hasn’t started to flatten in another week or so I don’t know where we go.

I understand but the curve flattening will still be shallow, Italy locked down far longer ago and to a far more stringent degree and it's taken a long time for it's curve to flatten out, maybe looking like it's peaked now. 26 days from lockdown to peak.

[thatdberight]

I’ve already accepted I was wrong based on a iffy website, it’s widely accepted anything over 3 constitutes several, like zlatan says there are different interpretations to several, I don’t think I’ll be first or the last to be making that same mistake but by all means you carry on arguing about it to yourself when I’ve accepted it was my mistake I won’t be joining in.

I had already edited it because I could see it had been discussed. **** you're touchy.

[Jakubclaret]

I had already edited it because I could see it had been discussed. **** you're touchy.

Yes I later realised, one had edited, apologies.

[DavidEyresLeftFoot]

But it seems odd that with all these new hospitals doctors are still being told that an awful lot of people will have to be left to die through lack of capacity.

Staff.

There's only so many patients you can physically manage at one time. So as the admission rate increases you have to offer ICU beds to the ones most likely to survive. That's what the Italians and the Spanish have just been through. We've become fixated on the number of ventilators but there's only so far you can stretch the trained staffing levels both with nurses and senior doctors. ICU nurses are being asked to look after way more patients than they're used to - backed up by theatres and recovery nurses (without much in the way of ICU training).Usual ratio is 1 nurse: 1 patient. The admissions are 24/7 and senior doctors are working demanding shift patterns with ever increasing numbers of patients to look after. There comes a tipping point.

[Devils_Advocate]

Without some sort of standardisation for population size, I'm not sure what I'd read into things. I haven't thought through what I'd expect to change or who it would make look better or worse, I just wouldn't want to have a graph that had total deaths in USA and Netherlands to the same scale.

Thanks, I thought this would be what you meant but wanted to clarify so not to answer something that I had misinterpreted.

Leaving out population size for now is exactly the right thing to do as population size does not affect the pace the virus spreads at. All per-capita adjustments do in the short term is make smaller countries look worse.

If the virus was sweeping through country's in days then yes population side would matter but the pace it is spreading at at the moment then it is much more useful and indicative to measure the steepness of the curves and whether deaths are continuing to rise or flatten out.

If no vaccine is found what will happen is that smaller country's will run out of susceptible people to catch the virus and die whilst in large country's like the US the Virus will continue to spread and it will take a lot longer and more deaths before they start to flatten out.

At the end of it all then population size and density will definitely be an important measure but for now its a bit of a red herring.

When im on my personal laptop im sure ive got a decent article and/or video that probably explains this a bit better than I have above which I will share if you are interested?

[CombatClaret]

Cheltenham faces criticism after racegoers suffer Covid-19 symptoms
"Jockey Club insists decision to go ahead in line with government guidance"


I'm shocked...

[Lowbankclaret]

Just looking at that graph, how is it that the German response is being lauded so highly, when its trajectory is higher than the UK's?

Germany are being praised for their testing, is that not correct??
That’s showing the difference up in our countries.
UK 38,168 cases with 3,605 deaths.

Germany 87,244 cases with 1,138 deaths.

What you could read into that is we are likely to have 300,000 cases just we don’t know because we are not testing, but there could be loads of parameters that means that figure could be higher or lower.

[Lowbankclaret]

Yes you are right, there are different interpretations, some people say it means 3 or many meaning no specific number, the website I looked said 7 or more, so I was wrong holding him to 7 when any number over 3 would have been sufficient.

It’s a prediction based on the lockdown working.

Personally our lockdown has not been as severe so. Think we will over shoot both Italy and Spain in numbers and time frame.

Just hoping I am wrong.

[thatdberight]

Thanks, I thought this would be what you meant but wanted to clarify so not to answer something that I had misinterpreted.

Leaving out population size for now is exactly the right thing to do as population size does not affect the pace the virus spreads at. All per-capita adjustments do in the short term is make smaller countries look worse.

If the virus was sweeping through country's in days then yes population side would matter but the pace it is spreading at at the moment then it is much more useful and indicative to measure the steepness of the curves and whether deaths are continuing to rise or flatten out.

If no vaccine is found what will happen is that smaller country's will run out of susceptible people to catch the virus and die whilst in large country's like the US the Virus will continue to spread and it will take a lot longer and more deaths before they start to flatten out.

At the end of it all then population size and density will definitely be an important measure but for now its a bit of a red herring.

When im on my personal laptop im sure ive got a decent article and/or video that probably explains this a bit better than I have above which I will share if you are interested?

I get that. I get / got that but not sure that is the case entirely. The Netherlands had a much higher cases/head to begin with therefore it starts on a different starting point. I agree none of these countries have reached saturation point. My point was as much about presentation as anything. By taking it back to rate instead of heads, it would just be much easier to concentrate on the matter at hand.

[Jakubclaret]

It’s a prediction based on the lockdown working.

Personally our lockdown has not been as severe so. Think we will over shoot both Italy and Spain in numbers and time frame.

Just hoping I am wrong.

I think so as well, there aren’t scrambling about building makeshift hospitals & furloughing most of the working population without good reason, we should have had a super strict lockdown a week earlier, we’d be sitting pretty now in the best possible sense.

[HieronymousBoschHobs]

Thought some of you might find this interesting...

New evidence has emerged from China indicating that the large majority of coronavirus infections do not result in symptoms.

Chinese authorities began publishing daily figures on 1 April on the number of new coronavirus cases that are asymptomatic, with the first day’s figures suggesting that around four in five coronavirus infections caused no illness. Many experts believe that unnoticed, asymptomatic cases of coronavirus infection could be an important source of contagion.

A total of 130 of 166 new infections (78%) identified in the 24 hours to the afternoon of Wednesday 1 April were asymptomatic, said China’s National Health Commission. And most of the 36 cases in which patients showed symptoms involved arrivals from overseas, down from 48 the previous day, the commission said.

China is rigorously testing arrivals from overseas for fear of importing a fresh outbreak of covid-19.

Tom Jefferson, an epidemiologist and honorary research fellow at the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at the University of Oxford, said the findings were “very, very important.” He told The BMJ, “The sample is small, and more data will become available. Also, it’s not clear exactly how these cases were identified. But let’s just say they are generalisable. And even if they are 10% out, then this suggests the virus is everywhere. If—and I stress, if—the results are representative, then we have to ask, ‘What the hell are we locking down for?’”

Jefferson said that it was quite likely that the virus had been circulating for longer than generally believed and that large swathes of the population had already been exposed.

Users of Chinese social media have expressed fears that carriers with no symptoms could be spreading the virus unknowingly, especially now that infections have subsided and authorities have eased curbs on travel for people in previous hotspots in the epidemic.

Zhong Nanshan, a senior medical adviser to the Chinese government, said that asymptomatic infections would not be able to cause another major outbreak of covid-19 if such people were kept in isolation. Officials have said this is usually for 14 days.

Nanshan said that once asymptomatic infected people were identified, they and their contacts would be isolated and kept under observation.

Citing classified data, the South China Morning Post said that China had already found more than 43 000 cases of asymptomatic infection through contact tracing.

The latest findings seem to contradict a World Health Organization report in February that was based on covid-19 in China. This suggested that “the proportion of truly asymptomatic infections is unclear but appears to be relatively rare and does not appear to be a major driver of transmission.”1

But since that WHO report other researchers, including Sergio Romagnani, a professor of clinical immunology at the University of Florence, have said they have evidence that most people infected by the virus do not show symptoms. Romagnani led the research that showed that blanket testing in a completely isolated village of roughly 3000 people in northern Italy saw the number of people with covid-19 symptoms fall by over 90% within 10 days by isolating people who were symptomatic and those who were asymptomatic.2

In an article on the website of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, Jefferson and Carl Heneghan, director of the centre and editor of BMJ EBM, write, “There can be little doubt that covid-19 may be far more widely distributed than some may believe. Lockdown is going to bankrupt all of us and our descendants and is unlikely at this point to slow or halt viral circulation as the genie is out of the bottle.

“What the current situation boils down to is this: is economic meltdown a price worth paying to halt or delay what is already amongst us?”3

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1375

[evensteadiereddie]

Better not to talk about, lads.
Let's er, see what happens, see how it pans out and then discuss - or not - but under NO circumstances must any government action be questioned at this difficult time.
To expect the government to be accountable, for good or bad, would just be sniping and point-scoring.

[Lowbankclaret]

Without some sort of standardisation for population size, I'm not sure what I'd read into things. I haven't thought through what I'd expect to change or who it would make look better or worse, I just wouldn't want to have a graph that had total deaths in USA and Netherlands to the same scale.

Can I puta hypothesis forward as to why I think it’s relevant.

This virus starts from a single person, but at multiple sites. So at the start maybe the population size is not the important variable. It will boundary the amount as time goes on.
Variables like people density ( New York) for instance might play a bigger impact.

So like all these things we could argue for weeks on validity, but selecting Italy and Spain as comparisons are good as they both have populations of less than the UK. Italy 60,6 million , Spain 46.6 million.

[FactualFrank]

I’ve already accepted I was wrong based on a iffy website, it’s widely accepted anything over 3 constitutes several, like zlatan says there are different interpretations to several, I don’t think I’ll be first or the last to be making that same mistake but by all means you carry on arguing about it to yourself when I’ve accepted it was my mistake I won’t be joining in.

I remember looking this up a few years ago and found it originally meant more about "separate" than a certain number. So several reasons means a number of separate reasons, as opposed to a set number of reasons.

Then over time it came to mean as we come to use it now, as in a few.

[thatdberight]

Thought some of you might find this interesting...



https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1375

This had better not be how this pans out.

[Lowbankclaret]

I worry that there have been a lot of question marks about China data, even though I have defended it at times.

China is not coming out of this well at all and could suffer a backlash from Europe and the US.

When the whole world is in recession except for China, I am not sure what the reaction is going to be.

[Devils_Advocate]

I get that. I get / got that but not sure that is the case entirely. The Netherlands had a much higher cases/head to begin with therefore it starts on a different starting point. I agree none of these countries have reached saturation point. My point was as much about presentation as anything. By taking it back to rate instead of heads, it would just be much easier to concentrate on the matter at hand.

I agree that rates are the best indicator and the data follow whilst giving overall figures as well as a per capita view primarily focuses on the rate that new cases and deaths are increasing at day by day.

If you factored in populations size the US would look like its doing really well when the reality is the data suggests that things are getting worse by the day.

I think larger country's have size as a disadvantage when measuring it purely on heads in the long term however they have an advantage of locking down and finding ways to contain and deal with the virus before it can spread anywhere near as deep into the population as it can with smaller country's

The crazy thing is if Trump would have had any brains and really got on top of this early and took strong measure then due to the size of the country they could have ended up looking like they were world leaders on this

[Spijed]

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1375

This had better not be how this pans out.

Actually it's not a bad thing because if as suggested yesterday the R0 number might be less than one then the rate of infection will slow far quicker than anticipated.

[Lowbankclaret]

This had better not be how this pans out.

Glad I didn’t post that link, would have had dogs abuse all night.

Even I don’t think it will be that bad.

But if it is anywhere near that, China will feel a backlash.

[Inchy]

Nightingale is meant to provide critical care beds which is one step down from Intensive Care, which will still only be available at proper hospitals.

I'm very happy to applaud the excellent work and happy that we've got a new very high capacity Covid-19 ward.
I would never have commented had a certain poster tried to pretend that a fully fledged hospital had been 'built' from 'thin air' in 9 days, that's simply not true.

Sorry don’t want to sound pedantic but the term critical care bed usually means an ICU bed. A HDU (high dependency unit) or level 2 (HDU, level 3 ICU) is the term used for the level of care just below ICU

[Bfcboyo]

I worry that there have been a lot of question marks about China data, even though I have defended it at times.

China is not coming out of this well at all and could suffer a backlash from Europe and the US.

When the whole world is in recession except for China, I am not sure what the reaction is going to be.

Freeze them out or tax them heavily to trade.

Simples