Covid-19

[Grumps]

12 hours notice for potentially returning to work. Going to be a busy night for a lot of directors dealing with questions from their employees.

It's... From tomorrow..... If it takes a week to prepare the workplace, then you start work then
Only the really dumb would think everyone was expected in at 9am tomorrow

[martin_p]

I don't think any sensible, decent employer is going to expect everyone back tomorrow morning. I took it to mean go in if you can, or make preparations to be back as soon as you can.

Again, you’re having to interpret what’s been said. How is anyone who thinks it might apply to them supposed to find out whether they are expected in work tomorrow or not?

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Off course the PM couldn't go into detail in such a short statement.

Which is why telling some people on a Sunday evening they can go back to tomorrow morning is bizarre.

They could have easily deferred this a couple of days to allow some time for people to see more detail and for employers to communicate with their staff.

Think we are learning this government don’t have much interest in communication.

[TheFamilyCat]

Incredible that they make this announcement about workplaces but don't have the guidance available immediately.

[martin_p]

Off course the PM couldn't go into detail in such a short statement.

Which is why telling some people on a Sunday evening they can go back to tomorrow morning is bizarre.

They could have easily deferred this a couple of days to allow some time for people to see more detail and for employers to communicate with their staff.

Glad they managed to give us three days notice on the extra exercise though! You know I’m half thinking he got the dates on the back to work/exercise the wrong way round.

[Tall Paul]

It's... From tomorrow..... If it takes a week to prepare the workplace, then you start work then
Only the really dumb would think everyone was expected in at 9am tomorrow

We know there are plenty of really dumb people around though.

Our company has around 50 employees and the managing director tells me his phone hasn't stopped since Johnson's broadcast, despite him sending out a statement immediately clarifying the company's position.

[NewClaret]

I’m so glad Boris told me to stay alert, I was socially distancing on my walk this evening and a coronavirus was walking towards me, without that valuable advice I wouldn’t have known to hide behind a tree until it passed.

[Grumps]

We know there are plenty of really dumb people around though.

Our company has around 50 employees and the managing director tells me his phone hasn't stopped since Johnson's broadcast, despite him sending out a statement clarifying the company's position.

They don't all post on here by any chance do they?

[NewClaret]

It's... From tomorrow..... If it takes a week to prepare the workplace, then you start work then
Only the really dumb would think everyone was expected in at 9am tomorrow

I think some on here think that Boris was saying you had to return to work from tomorrow.

It was quite clear to me that you can return to work from tomorrow, not must.

[NewClaret]

They don't all post on here by any chance do they?

That might explain it!!

[Tall Paul]

I think some on here think that Boris was saying you had to return to work from tomorrow.

It was quite clear to me that you can return to work from tomorrow, not must.

Who decides whether you return tomorrow or not?

[Grumps]

I think some on here think that Boris was saying you had to return to work from tomorrow.

It was quite clear to me that you can return to work from tomorrow, not must.

I thought it was clear as well....

[dougcollins]

Were the 30k+ who've died not being alert?

[Grumps]

Who decides whether you return tomorrow or not?

Your employer, followed by you if you think its safe, plus the unions.

[NewClaret]

Glad they managed to give us three days notice on the extra exercise though! You know I’m half thinking he got the dates on the back to work/exercise the wrong way round.

The places where people couldn’t work from home should have been open anyway. He’s never shut down workplaces (other than restaurants, theatres, gyms, etc - and they’re staying closed).

[Tall Paul]

Your employer, followed by you if you think its safe, plus the unions.

So what was the issue with my post saying a lot of directors are going to be busy tonight answering questions from employees about going in to work tomorrow?

[Devils_Advocate]

For those with Twitter the below video message offer some additional clarification

https://twitter.com/i/status/1259566662791106569

[NewClaret]

I don't think any sensible, decent employer is going to expect everyone back tomorrow morning. I took it to mean go in if you can, or make preparations to be back as soon as you can.

Completely agree.

And if employers haven’t spent the last 2 months readying their workplaces for a return to work, I have no sympathy for them.

The supermarkets managed to get their 1000’s of huge shops open and safe for employees/customers in a matter of days (albeit with increasingly better protections). Other employers have had 2 months clear run while the supermarkets have been keeping the nation fed and the NHS has been operating day and night to save lives. Quite embarrassing if they haven’t already got themselves prepared.

[TheFamilyCat]

Completely agree.

And if employers haven’t spent the last 2 months readying their workplaces for a return to work, I have no sympathy for them.

The supermarkets managed to get their 1000’s of huge shops open and safe for employees/customers in a matter of days (albeit with increasingly better protections). Other employers have had 2 months clear run while the supermarkets have been keeping the nation fed and the NHS has been operating day and night to save lives. Quite embarrassing if they haven’t already got themselves prepared.

How can they be readying their workplaces when they are staying at home?

And all supermarkets have done is put some perspex up at checkouts and a bit of tape on the floor.

[Tall Paul]

Completely agree.

And if employers haven’t spent the last 2 months readying their workplaces for a return to work, I have no sympathy for them.

The supermarkets managed to get their 1000’s of huge shops open and safe for employees/customers in a matter of days (albeit with increasingly better protections). Other employers have had 2 months clear run while the supermarkets have been keeping the nation fed and the NHS has been operating day and night to save lives. Quite embarrassing if they haven’t already got themselves prepared.

I agree as well, but it isn't just about whether the workplace is safe.

There's no point in manufacturers returning to work if the majority of their customers are still closed and there's no work for them to do, but when employees who want to return to work see the Prime Minister saying they are to be actively encouraged to do so from tomorrow they're going to phone their boss asking when they can.

[Zlatan]

Monty Python spot on again...

https://www.facebook.com/27200244963428 ... /?vh=e&d=n

[aggi]

Completely agree.

And if employers haven’t spent the last 2 months readying their workplaces for a return to work, I have no sympathy for them.

The supermarkets managed to get their 1000’s of huge shops open and safe for employees/customers in a matter of days (albeit with increasingly better protections). Other employers have had 2 months clear run while the supermarkets have been keeping the nation fed and the NHS has been operating day and night to save lives. Quite embarrassing if they haven’t already got themselves prepared.

Indeed. All they needed to do was follow the guidance that will be released at an indeterminate time in the future.

[taio]

How can they be readying their workplaces when they are staying at home?

And all supermarkets have done is put some perspex up at checkouts and a bit of tape on the floor.

I very much doubt that's all supermarkets have had to do. In fact I suspect there has been a great deal of planning and hard work over the last couple of months.

[NewClaret]

How can they be readying their workplaces when they are staying at home?

And all supermarkets have done is put some perspex up at checkouts and a bit of tape on the floor.

Well, in our case, the Facilities team have managed to find a way.

There seems to be a perception that nobody has been able to go in to work for the last two months; that’s not true. In cases where your role required to be in an office, you could go to work. That was necessary for our Facilities team, for whom we mandated individual travel and working individually under supervision (to avoid line working).

Good point re: supermarkets - good example that there’s not much to it.

[TheFamilyCat]

I very much doubt that's all supermarkets have had to do. In fact I suspect there has been a great deal of planning and hard work over the last couple of months.

I can only speak for the one I've been in but that is the only difference i could see. Non-essential items still on sale, aisles still the same width (with no way of passing more than 6 feet apart), staff stacking shelves, completely ignoring social distancing.

Sorry, there was one more thing; the bloke in the doorway who was operating the one-in/one-out system (who coincidentally was stood right in the doorway making it impossible to leave 6 feet when passing).

[jrgbfc]

Looks like golf courses in England allowed to open from Wednesday. Can only play in household groups or alone though.

[martin_p]

I very much doubt that's all supermarkets have had to do. In fact I suspect there has been a great deal of planning and hard work over the last couple of months.

Indeed, in fact Tesco had done some disaster planning and acted on the resulting recommendations meaning they were in a position to act quickly. Unfortunately our government weren’t as well prepared as a supermarket.

[taio]

I can only speak for the one I've been in but that is the only difference i could see. Non-essential items still on sale, aisles still the same width (with no way of passing more than 6 feet apart), staff stacking shelves, completely ignoring social distancing.

Sorry, there was one more thing; the bloke in the doorway who was operating the one-in/one-out system (who coincidentally was stood right in the doorway making it impossible to leave 6 feet when passing).

I've no idea what it's like to to run or work in a supermarket. But I guess the logistics planning, high demand for deliveries, people stockpiling, lots of recruitment activity and new staff, and some completely unreasonable and rude people have meant that it hasn't been that easy.

[tiger76]

Germany might have to reimpose lockdown?

Germany may need to bring back restrictions

The latest figures appear to show that the number of Covid-19 infections in Germany may be rising faster again.

The reproduction rate has risen to 1.1, meaning 10 people will infect 11 others on average. To keep the pandemic in check this level should be below one.

This is an estimate and officials warn against reading too much into short-term changes.

But this all comes as Germany is easing restrictions in some of the most risky sectors, such as restaurants, hotels and football.

So the government will be watching closely. And if the virus is spreading more rapidly, some restrictions could be reimposed.

At the same time, the daily death toll in Germany is the lowest it’s been in more than a month. As of 9 May, Germany had recorded 7,369 deaths, a rise of 103 compared with the previous day, according to the Robert Koch Institute.

[NewClaret]

Indeed. All they needed to do was follow the guidance that will be released at an indeterminate time in the future.

Let me tell you what we’ve done then.

- bought some non-invasive thermometers to check people on entry.
- written our own policy on office use, partly based on government advice and partly common sense.
- cleared all desks. People should operate a clear desk policy anyway, but they don’t. This is to aid cleaning, both normal physical cleaning and a new product we’ve bought that fills the office with a fog that deep cleans the office.
- bought the said deep cleaning products.
- arranged with our cleaning contractors to staff up, including the rota/SLA’s, for when we return.
- bought hand sanitiser for each row of desks, wipes for each desk and glove dispensers near touch points (like doors).
- prioritised employee’s for return to work based on need, their own transport arrangements, health conditions, etc. We’ve known for at least a month who would be first back in the office when restrictions were lifted.

It’s not been easy to organise, but we’ve had plenty of time to do it.

[KateR]

Again, you’re having to interpret what’s been said. How is anyone who thinks it might apply to them supposed to find out whether they are expected in work tomorrow or not?

use your God given brain, oohhhhh, ok, right I see what you mean

[NewClaret]

Looks like golf courses in England allowed to open from Wednesday. Can only play in household groups or alone though.

That’s pleasing. Decided I want to learn to play golf!

[KateR]

That’s pleasing. Decided I want to learn to play golf!

hope you like frustration, if it's your thing highly recommended, but did you actually ask BJ if you're allowed to?

[taio]

Indeed, in fact Tesco had done some disaster planning and acted on the resulting recommendations meaning they were in a position to act quickly. Unfortunately our government weren’t as well prepared as a supermarket.

I can only speak for the health and care system but the amount of contingency and continuity planning under government guidance since the pandemic has been incredible. It's easy to point the finger from a great distance and with little understanding.

[Jakubclaret]

we will have to disagree on that one, other than yes millions of units for daily use but they are not typically how you mix with emergency supplies/stock but I freely admit I have no idea how the NHS supply chain is run and am only going off numerous other stocks/spares and companies globally that I do know a little bit about.

Well I do, it's normal standard practice for such an arrangement to be necessary, some of the gowns received from turkey don't meet BSS, I understand there's a sense of urgency regarding the fulfillment of supplies, some sort of sample or spec reassurance should have been established before agreement, the desperation is falling into a counter productive trap serving no real purpose.

[tiger76]

This guy on the Beeb sums it up pretty succinctly.

Analysis: PM effectively trying to pull off the impossible

Nick Triggle

Health Correspondent

The prime minister is effectively trying to pull off the impossible.

He wants to try to re-start normal life, while keeping the virus at bay with limited means to do so.

With no vaccine, the government is reliant on containing any local outbreaks.

But the problem is that even with the extra testing that has been put in place over the past month, there are big holes in the UK’s ability to suppress the virus.

It takes too long to get test results back – several days in some cases – and those most in need of regular testing, such as care home staff for example, are still reporting they cannot always access tests.

Our ability to trace the close contacts of infected people remains unknown – the piloting of the system, which involves the use of an app and army of contact tracers, has just started on the Isle of Wight.

It means we are effectively fighting this “invisible killer” with one hand behind our back.

We are not alone in struggling - similar problems are being encountered by other countries.

But we are still some way behind the best prepared and equipped, such as Germany and South Korea.

Now my own thoughts.

Shocking that care home staff are still struggling to get tested,and the app is very much untested,it's a heck of a risk to loosen restrictions,hope it goes well for all our sakes,but i fear it won't.

[tiger76]

The PM'S announcement has caused further confusion,quelle surprise.

Tourism bosses 'shocked' by PM's plan

Tourism bosses in Cumbria have said they are "shocked" by the "timing and short notice" of Boris Johnson's announcement.

Cumbria's tourism board tweeted: "We are awaiting further details but the safety of residents must come first. For now, tourism businesses in Cumbria remain closed and we urge everyone to continue to stay home."

As part of the PM's plans to reopen society, he said from Wednesday people in England would now be able to leave home as many times as they wish for exercise and drive to other destinations in the country for exercise.

People have previously been warned to avoid travelling to beauty spots like the Lake District in Cumbria, as the county still had high infection rates.


Police chief: We need crystal clear guidance not loose rules

John Apter, the national chair of the Police Federation of England and Wales, says the work of the police must be based on "crystal clear guidance, not loose rules that are left open to interpretation".

Apter calls on the government must provide "clear and unambiguous messaging and guidance", adding that any lack of clarity "will be grossly unfair on officers whose job is already challenging".

He says the UK government's changes in England follow "a week of mixed messages and the release of some information which, fuelled by media speculation, meant many people acted as though the lockdown had already ended".

"If the message of what is expected of the public is not clear, then it will make the job of policing this legislation almost impossible," he says.

[dsr]

it's a heck of a risk to loosen restrictions,hope it goes well for all our sakes,but i fear it won't.

There is no safe option. Whatever the government does is a heck of a risk; if the government does nothing, it is a heck of a risk.

[KateR]

did I miss part of it, did he actually say anywhere, you are now forced to mingle, you will be forced out of your house, you must go on holiday in the next week somewhere?

[tiger76]

There is no safe option. Whatever the government does is a heck of a risk; if the government does nothing, it is a heck of a risk.

That's true,let's just hope the majority of the public can exercise common sense,you'll always get the neanderthals,but they're a small proportion.

This message from the nursing staff should resonate.

The pandemic is far from over - nursing chief

Nursing staff across the UK are "imploring" the public to remember that the pandemic "is far from over", the chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing Dame Donna Kinnair says.

"Please think about our health and care workers, working under tremendous pressure, and respect the guidance being given.

"The prime minister has said it is important to ensure nurses and key workers have the protective equipment and testing they need. This has to be a priority," she says.

"Until our members report they are getting all they need, it is hard to see how the lockdown could be relaxed further."

Worrying that PPE and testing still hasn't been addressed.

[tiger76]

I can't imagine why,but the Green Day song American Idiot,came to mind,when i read this.

Cluster of California cases traced to birthday party
A concentration of Covid cases in California has been traced back to a birthday party in Pasadena, north-east of Los Angeles.

A "large number of extended family member and friends" attended the event, which took place after the statewide stay-home order was issued on 22 March, according to the Pasadena Public Health Department. Attendees did not practice social distancing.

One patient at the party was coughing and not wearing a face covering, officials said. Five cases have been confirmed, while "many more" have fallen ill.

There are 66,826 confirmed cases across California, with 2,695 deaths.

[KateR]

That's the BIG question tiger, but the knee jerk reaction here tells you about common sense, it's in short supply and many need a detail operators manual in what to do now there has been a slight change to the future.

[Devils_Advocate]

What needs to be clarified and supported strongly by the govt when the detail and practicalities come out this week are the safegaurds for employees and the responsibilitys of employers.

There needs some clear guidelines and rules in place around situations where if workers dont feel they can work safely or for workers who have to travel on public transport etc

The responsibility cannot be left solely to the business and employers but needs to be backed by govt support.

Im sure in a lot of situations the business and employees can work things through together and will want to support each other but where this isnt the case then the govt needs to take some ownership about how these situations will be resolved

[tiger76]

That's the BIG question tiger, but the knee jerk reaction here tells you about common sense, it's in short supply and many need a detail operators manual in what to do now there has been a slight change to the future.

I'm in Scotland so there hasn't been any major changes here yet,i'll be getting in touch with my employer as per tomorrow morning,and see what their advising regarding returning to work,I've already suggested a phased return,and they appeared receptive to that idea.

[NewClaret]

hope you like frustration, if it's your thing highly recommended, but did you actually ask BJ if you're allowed to?

Will remember this post when I’m getting frustrated. Thanks for the forewarning.

[KateR]

What needs to be clarified and supported strongly by the govt when the detail and practicalities come out this week are the safegaurds for employees and the responsibilitys of employers.

There needs some clear guidelines and rules in place around situations where if workers dont feel they can work safely or for workers who have to travel on public transport etc

The responsibility cannot be left solely to the business and employers but needs to be backed by govt support.

I'm sure in a lot of situations the business and employees can work things through together and will want to support each other but where this isn't the case then the govt needs to take some ownership about how these situations will be resolved

I can agree with this in the main however I don't think any Gov. will tell employers exactly what they have to do given how many different industries there are plus various sizes. The public guidelines have been clear in many cases and remain and have not changed. We can clearly see in a hospital people are having to work close together and are wearing PPE, there will be other cases and if the PPE is not readily available they will not allow or the employees will refuse and document accordingly. Yet the Gov. need to be very explicit in which types of industries can open and I think it would be better if they put guidelines around numbers depending on the industry, supermarkets seem to have worked it out well and I think business owners will be cautious in reopening (hopefully)

I can only talk about how well 2 companies I work with are doing, offices in certain parts of the world fully closed down but actual project work has carried on with reduced manning and PPE. I have seen a couple of offices open last Monday but with very limited people and they have to be justified as to criticality of work and why they can't do the work from home.

I think the biggest problem is that of transport, particularly public transport but expect a huge rise in car travel with single occupancy

[Devils_Advocate]

I can agree with this in the main however I don't think any Gov. will tell employers exactly what they have to do given how many different industries there are plus various sizes. The public guidelines have been clear in many cases and remain and have not changed. We can clearly see in a hospital people are having to work close together and are wearing PPE, there will be other cases and if the PPE is not readily available they will not allow or the employees will refuse and document accordingly. Yet the Gov. need to be very explicit in which types of industries can open and I think it would be better if they put guidelines around numbers depending on the industry, supermarkets seem to have worked it out well and I think business owners will be cautious in reopening (hopefully)

I can only talk about how well 2 companies I work with are doing, offices in certain parts of the world fully closed down but actual project work has carried on with reduced manning and PPE. I have seen a couple of offices open last Monday but with very limited people and they have to be justified as to criticality of work and why they can't do the work from home.

I think the biggest problem is that of transport, particularly public transport but expect a huge rise in car travel with single occupancy

I wouldnt expect detailed guidelines for all scenarios but there should be some very clear principles and standards and a dispute process overseen by an official body who can interpret the guidelines and principles alongside the case specifics in question

We cannot be in a situation where you get an employer like Wetherspoons who has little care for its employees working conditions and at the same time holds a lot of power over them in terms of how much they rely on keeping their job.

This might be the exception more than the norm but it is likely gonna be the most desperate people who find themselves in this situation who most need protection from the state

[KateR]

I wouldnt expect detailed guidelines for all scenarios but there should be some very clear principles and standards and a dispute process overseen by an official body who can interpret the guidelines and principles alongside the case specifics in question

We cannot be in a situation where you get an employer like Wetherspoons who has little care for its employees working conditions and at the same time holds a lot of power over them in terms of how much they rely on keeping their job.

This might be the exception more than the norm but it is likely gonna be the most desperate people who find themselves in this situation who most need protection from the state

totally agree.

I hope the Gov. do make that crystal clear and I hope there is some sense in terms of what employers understand in terms of the anger they will face in terms of unfair dismissal for not making it safe for people to work, that is a given right everyone has.

[KateR]

Germany might have to reimpose lockdown?

Germany may need to bring back restrictions

The latest figures appear to show that the number of Covid-19 infections in Germany may be rising faster again.

The reproduction rate has risen to 1.1, meaning 10 people will infect 11 others on average. To keep the pandemic in check this level should be below one.

This is an estimate and officials warn against reading too much into short-term changes.

But this all comes as Germany is easing restrictions in some of the most risky sectors, such as restaurants, hotels and football.

So the government will be watching closely. And if the virus is spreading more rapidly, some restrictions could be reimposed.

At the same time, the daily death toll in Germany is the lowest it’s been in more than a month. As of 9 May, Germany had recorded 7,369 deaths, a rise of 103 compared with the previous day, according to the Robert Koch Institute.

I can't believe this is anything to do with the relaxation though, transmission takes time to actually show through and grow plus there has not been that much relaxation for any length of time has there? Does this indicate it is still going up occasionally? Am asking questions here?

[martin_p]

I can only speak for the health and care system but the amount of contingency and continuity planning under government guidance since the pandemic has been incredible. It's easy to point the finger from a great distance and with little understanding.

Your supposed to do your contingency and continuity planning before the disaster happens, not when it’s already happening.