Keir Starmer the future

[tarkys_ears]

If he stopped trying to go down the route of appeasing the Corbin loving hardcore communists of North London with his petty politics and to-and-fro'ing and was seeing actually trying to help the current government, he might actually be able to get some Tory voters onside who are sick to death of the incompetence of this current cabinet and maybe make himself a genuine option.

But if he's too stupid to understand that if Corbin at the height of his fame against Theresa May couldn't win an election with these soap-dodging idiots backing him, he won't win one either.

--

I think I'd still trust Boris and his idiots before him. The opposition party needs reforming as something new because "Labour" has sailed.

[CombatClaret]

A genuine CC is there anybody in the Conservative party that you do like.

In this current crop I couldn't name you one, I had huge respect for Ken Clarke and thought Rory Steward would have been an excellent foil to some voices in the proper role.
Sunak appears competent but like I said we're barely seen anything of him and I think his competence is artificially elevated to appear positively masterful when compared side by side with the PM.

[Paul Waine]

I hope I'm wrong here, but I don't think the bounce back will bounce high enough when you take into the account the figures for Jan/Feb. The economy looked to be already flatlining.

When I say "bounce back" I'm not expecting everything will "return to normal" (whatever "normal" is) in a short time. It could easily be 3 or 4 years before we stop speaking of the "economic hit" of covid-19. But, we've also got "new trading relationship" with EU and green investments to "make a start" on tackling climate change ahead of us.

What do people think about the economy and covid-19? Is it possible that, strangely, it will ease the transition out of the EU (fewer goods trying to get through Dover and stuff)? Also, will the "environmental benefits" of lockdown, cleaner air, fewer car journeys, many fewer flight, give a big boost to green investments because we've all seen the benefits - even if in unexpected circumstances - and will make many more keen to transition?

As an aside, do we expect more youngsters aiming for science and medical jobs given that we've all seen that these are the "heroes" of this time? (The STEM educated will be the "kings and queens" of the future).

[tarkys_ears]

What do people think about the economy and covid-19? Is it possible that, strangely, it will ease the transition out of the EU (fewer goods trying to get through Dover and stuff)? Also, will the "environmental benefits" of lockdown, cleaner air, fewer car journeys, many fewer flight, give a big boost to green investments because we've all seen the benefits - even if in unexpected circumstances - and will make many more keen to transition?

Benefits? What benefits?

[Billy Balfour]

When I say "bounce back" I'm not expecting everything will "return to normal" (whatever "normal" is) in a short time.

I wasn't saying you were, Paul. I'm basically saying the figures for Jan/Fan are a massive cause for concern and this is before we throw the impact of C-19 into the mix.

[Paul Waine]

I wasn't saying you were, Paul. I'm basically saying the figures for Jan/Fan are a massive cause for concern and this is before we throw the impact of C-19 into the mix.

I've got to be honest, Jan/Feb is a long time ago, and I've forgotten what those numbers were or how they compare with previous Jan/Febs.

I' might have a look sometime, though a lot has gone on in the world since then.

[Paul Waine]

Benefits? What benefits?

Don't you like clearer, cleaner and pollution free air, very limited road and air traffic noise and pollution and the clear sound of birds celebrating these changes?

Big, big benefit in my book. That's got to bring hope for everyone's futures.

[KateR]

Jan & Feb were down due to C-19, March it really bit in, but Q2 we will see a much bigger decline and I don't see any real recover Q3, and think Q4 will be earliest with any upturn to give consumer confidence. Obviously a lot of if ands and buts to go, a large Second Wave for example is a horrible thought all round, medically and economically.

[RingoMcCartney]

KEIR STARMER-




He's not the messiah.

He's a very haughty boy...



(Copyright RingoMcCartney 2020)

[ksrclaret]

f-uck me that's appalling

It must be very reassuring for Keir Starmer that, in the face of gross incompetence and negligence by the current UK government, the other side are on their knees with teaspoons attempting to scrape the barrel for ammunition against him.

[tarkys_ears]

Don't you like clearer, cleaner and pollution free air, very limited road and air traffic noise and pollution and the clear sound of birds celebrating these changes?

Big, big benefit in my book. That's got to bring hope for everyone's futures.

And what studies have taken place to say that these things have happened?

[martin_p]

And what studies have taken place to say that these things have happened?

https://www.theguardian.com/environmen ... SApp_Other

[TheFamilyCat]

f-uck me that's appalling

It must be very reassuring for Keir Starmer that, in the face of gross incompetence and negligence by the current UK government, the other side are on their knees with teaspoons attempting to scrape the barrel for ammunition against him.

Thing is, you can bet Ringo is very pleased with himself for that little nugget.

No comment on how PMQs are going, funnily enough.

[Siddo]

If he stopped trying to go down the route of appeasing the Corbin loving hardcore communists of North London with his petty politics and to-and-fro'ing and was seeing actually trying to help the current government, he might actually be able to get some Tory voters onside who are sick to death of the incompetence of this current cabinet and maybe make himself a genuine option.

But if he's too stupid to understand that if Corbin at the height of his fame against Theresa May couldn't win an election with these soap-dodging idiots backing him, he won't win one either.

--

I think I'd still trust Boris and his idiots before him. The opposition party needs reforming as something new because "Labour" has sailed.

The single most stupid post I have ever read on here.

[Siddo]

And what studies have taken place to say that these things have happened?

Do you live in a hole in the ground. Unbelievable.
Before you post, why don't you do some simple research.

[fatboy47]

Come back Rowls ...please.

I'm almost nostalgic for the days when he would at least try to attach some or other reasoning or monetory theory to his arguments.(usually a slavish devotion to supply side economics)

The tory debate has just turned into the ramblings of a monotonous handful of the brainwashed peasantry, parroting populist nonsense from the red tops.

[Paul Waine]

And what studies have taken place to say that these things have happened?

Where do you live Tarkys_ears? Isn't your area subject to lockdown? Don't you see the daily briefings that reference traffic levels? Are the airlines still busy in your part of the world?

All the things I've mentioned have been widely reported. The environment "loves" the reduced activity, the reduced diesel pollution, the reduced CO2 emissions. The UK has gone a record period without needing any electricity from coal generation - because of reduced demand in industry and commerce. Worldwide the oil price is massively down because demand for oil has been massively reduced while, until last couple of weeks, supply has been maintained at and above pre-covid-19 levels.

EDIT: and after responding to your post, I've seen that martin has posted a link to Guardian article which reports one of these studies. I'd expect the same reports can be found in other media, also.

[Corky]

The racist Tory establishment have now been caught out cutting and splicing old footage of Starmer when he was DPP to try and imply that he didn't care about child grooming. However if you look at the interview in full, he can clearly be seen saying the complete opposite. This has since been reposted by I believe 4 racist Tory MPs when perhaps they should have been concentrating on the pandemic and its impact on the community they are meant to serve.

[Billy Balfour]

I' might have a look sometime, though a lot has gone on in the world since then.

Yeah, it feels like a decade ago.

[Hipper]

If we want the recent improvements in air quality, traffic levels etc. we will have to abandon many of our current expectations - holidays abroad (flying), ability to drive anywhere any time, the whole way we get about, go to school, shops and travel to work, and work itself (a lot of the air quality changes are due to reduced industrial activity).

These are the sort of changes that are needed for global warming reasons yet most were reluctant to accept this. I don't believe most will be willing to accept what is in effect a reduction in their standard of living just to be able to hear birds singing or something difficult to appreciate like breathing less polluted air etc..

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The racist Tory establishment have now been caught out cutting and splicing old footage of Starmer when he was DPP to try and imply that he didn't care about child grooming. However if you look at the interview in full, he can clearly be seen saying the complete opposite. This has since been reposted by I believe 4 racist Tory MPs when perhaps they should have been concentrating on the pandemic and its impact on the community they are meant to serve.

Are they racist for posting a video of a white bloke or for trying to suggest he did nothing to stop the grooming gangs?

[Swizzlestick]

I think because it was shared from a far right nationalist Twitter account.

[TheFamilyCat]

Are they racist for posting a video of a white bloke or for trying to suggest he did nothing to stop the grooming gangs?

Maybe not but they are using Islamophobia to smear a political opponent.

[nil_desperandum]

Are they racist for posting a video of a white bloke or for trying to suggest he did nothing to stop the grooming gangs?

Maybe you should look into this more and it would help answer your question.
They deliberately edited (cut / paste) the footage, so that it appeared that he was saying exactly the opposite of what he actually said in context. (I don't think I quite explained that right, but if you look into it, you'll understand what I mean. You can take quotes out of context, apply them to different questions and paste them together and therefore defame someone's character). The edited footage was probably libellous but Starmer has very wisely drawn a line under it.

[Devils_Advocate]

Maybe you should look into this more and it would help answer your question.
They deliberately edited (cut / paste) the footage, so that it appeared that he was saying exactly the opposite of what he actually said in context. (I don't think I quite explained that right, but if you look into it, you'll understand what I mean. You can take quotes out of context, apply them to different questions and paste them together and therefore defame someone's character). The edited footage was probably libellous but Starmer has very wisely drawn a line under it.

I think Sids point was more around why the poster on here associated racism of the Tory's to the incident (a fair question). The two posts above have provided Sid with what I think are reasonable explanations for the racist link

[tarkys_ears]

I see the average joe Labour voter has now defected to the Tory, which has only left behind the most unhinged idiots who believe Corbin is the future.

Still, good news for us Tories.

[Siddo]

I see the average joe Labour voter has now defected to the Tory, which has only left behind the most unhinged idiots who believe Corbin is the future.

Still, good news for us Tories.

I give you top marks for perseverance in still posting. You do know that Corbyn is very much yesterday's man and that Kier Starmer has replaced almost all of Corbyn's henchmen and women and is moving forward with determination and integrity, which is sadly lacking in the Johnson government.

I bet the new Tory voters will be 100% behind Johnson, because they don't have the cojones to say they might have made a mistake in voting for a known liar and will accordingly back him to the hilt. However, he and his cronies don't care about you and me, not one tiny bit. They don't understand why people are using buses to get to work. They think everyone has a car, or a bike, or can walk 3 miles to work.

This government is the most inept and dangerous we could possibly have had in one of the nation's most difficult periods we have ever faced.

Every one of the cabinet is only there because they swore on oath to fight for Brexit no matter what.
None of them are there on merit and we will all suffer because of that.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Maybe not but they are using Islamophobia to smear a political opponent.

That just muddies the waters because plenty of people consider islamophobia to be racist, whilst plenty of others don't.

[Grumps]

Iam no supporter of labour, but Boris will have his hands full in PMQs, if Starmer sticks to the barrister's long known tactic......... Never ask a question you don't know the answer to

[TheFamilyCat]

That just muddies the waters because plenty of people consider islamophobia to be racist, whilst plenty of others don't.

It only muddies the waters for those who don't know the difference between race and religion. Should I refrain from commenting on the grounds that some people may be too stupid to understand it?

[Corky]

Are they racist for posting a video of a white bloke or for trying to suggest he did nothing to stop the grooming gangs?

You can disagree, thats fine, but I have decided to take, perhaps a simplistic view that I am nonetheless comfortable with. And it is that anyone who is prepared to associate with Conservatism whose leader is demonstrably racist is also racist by association. And I get that there are MPs from BAME backgrounds but for me the overarching ideology of Conservatism as borne out by their leader is not only racist but to have a complete lack of empathy for anyone outside their social circle.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

You can disagree, thats fine, but I have decided to take, perhaps a simplistic view that I am nonetheless comfortable with. And it is that anyone who is prepared to associate with Conservatism whose leader is demonstrably racist is also racist by association. And I get that there are MPs from BAME backgrounds but for me the overarching ideology of Conservatism as borne out by their leader is not only racist but to have a complete lack of empathy for anyone outside their social circle.

I didn't really disagree with anything, just asked you to explain the racism which you didn't.
You've now proceeded to label millions of us as racist which is pretty moronic

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It only muddies the waters for those who don't know the difference between race and religion. Should I refrain from commenting on the grounds that some people may be too stupid to understand it?

If you're going to refrain from commenting then you'll never be on here again because plenty on here seem to link the two.

[tarkys_ears]

I give you top marks for perseverance in still posting. You do know that Corbyn is very much yesterday's man and that Kier Starmer has replaced almost all of Corbyn's henchmen and women and is moving forward with determination and integrity, which is sadly lacking in the Johnson government.

I bet the new Tory voters will be 100% behind Johnson, because they don't have the cojones to say they might have made a mistake in voting for a known liar and will accordingly back him to the hilt. However, he and his cronies don't care about you and me, not one tiny bit. They don't understand why people are using buses to get to work. They think everyone has a car, or a bike, or can walk 3 miles to work.

This government is the most inept and dangerous we could possibly have had in one of the nation's most difficult periods we have ever faced.

Every one of the cabinet is only there because they swore on oath to fight for Brexit no matter what.
None of them are there on merit and we will all suffer because of that.

Siddo siddo siddo... it's almost as if you're obsessed. Or maybe even deranged...

Bleating on about left wing politics 24 hours a day - hows that working out for ya?!

[Siddo]

Siddo siddo siddo... it's almost as if you're obsessed. Or maybe even deranged...

Bleating on about left wing politics 24 hours a day - hows that working out for ya?!

Please can you explain this post because I don't know what you mean?

[Holtyclaret]

I know exactly what he means.

Easiest job in the world, leader of the opposition whilst the government fire fight a global emergency. Hindsight can make folk appear better at their role and more intelligent than they actually are.

That evil eyed woman wheeled out by labour on question time seems about the level for Starmers new team from what I’ve seen since the start of April.

[joey13]

I know exactly what he means.

Easiest job in the world, leader of the opposition whilst the government fire fight a global emergency. Hindsight can make folk appear better at their role and more intelligent than they actually are.

That evil eyed woman wheeled out by labour on question time seems about the level for Starmers new team from what I’ve seen since the start of April.

Hindsight, the new political buzz word to say we fcuked up

[Holtyclaret]

Just think it’s a **** trick to continuously try to attack the government (it’s more than constructive criticism), using hindsight while they have much more pressing matters to attend to.

Plenty of time for dissecting how it’s been dealt with at a later date when enquiries can take place and the country will then be in far better position to tackle future global health crises (and be better prepared when it happens).

[nil_desperandum]

Easiest job in the world, leader of the opposition whilst the government fire fight a global emergency.

As has been pointed out many times, it's exactly the opposite.
As Leader of the Opposition you have to walk a tightrope in times of National Emergency otherwise you will be accused of undermining the government's efforts and a lack of national spirit, but at the same time you have to question decision making and hold the decision makers to account.
It must also be in the back of Starmer's mind that the PM has been very ill so he needs to adopt a measured approach when "challenging" him, in order to ensure that he can't be get criticised for being too aggressive.
So far Starmer appears to be achieving a pretty good balance, even the Daily Telegraph agrees.

[Holtyclaret]

As has been pointed out many times, it's exactly the opposite.
As Leader of the Opposition you have to walk a tightrope in times of National Emergency otherwise you will be accused of undermining the government's efforts and a lack of national spirit, but at the same time you have to question decision making and hold the decision makers to account.
It must also be in the back of Starmer's mind that the PM has been very ill so he needs to adopt a measured approach when "challenging" him, in order to ensure that he can't be get criticised for being too aggressive.
So far Starmer appears to be achieving a pretty good balance, even the Daily Telegraph agrees.

Challenging is fine, I feel he and several Others are overstepping to the point of attempting to undermine.

[KateR]

KS has been in the job no time at all so don't think anyone can make any meaningful comments and put a stake in the ground as to his real ability just yet, except of course to his looks and sounds which I would agree seem to be an improvement. Same as people input regarding the C-19 reaction, other than to say there have been mistakes but let's wait and see. C-19 is going to throw up other very difficult issues to work with and attachments as thoughts that might help in any discussion including the rest of Europe.

[Devils_Advocate]

Challenging is fine, I feel he and several Others are overstepping to the point of attempting to undermine.

Please list with sources or evidence where he has overstepped the mark and lets discuss

[TheFamilyCat]

Challenging is fine, I feel he and several Others are overstepping to the point of attempting to undermine.

Dry yer eyes mate

[nil_desperandum]

Challenging is fine, I feel he and several Others are overstepping to the point of attempting to undermine.

Would your "several others" attempting to undermine include people like Dominic Raab and other cabinet ministers who continually go "off message", appear to either misunderstand or contradict what Johnson and the health experts say, and then have to row back?

[Holtyclaret]

Please list with sources or evidence where he has overstepped the mark and lets discuss

No, I’m not an anorak like some. I just chose at the start of the outbreak to keep as best informed as I can. This is just my personal opinion based on watching a lot news, bbc parliament channel, daily briefings and subsequent comment etc..

[Holtyclaret]

Dry yer eyes mate

Do you not think there’s more important issues at the moment than point scoring?

No tears here buddy, just my opinion.

[Devils_Advocate]

No, I’m not an anorak like some. I just chose at the start of the outbreak to keep as best informed as I can. This is just my personal opinion based on watching a lot news, bbc parliament channel, daily briefings and subsequent comment etc..

i.e. I'm talking boll*cks and have nothing to base things on but for my inane prejudices

[Holtyclaret]

Would your "several others" attempting to undermine include people like Dominic Raab and other cabinet ministers who continually go "off message", appear to either misunderstand or contradict what Johnson and the health experts say, and then have to row back?

No they include nandy, Dodds, ashworth and Reeves (the worst).

The rest of your post doesn’t ring particularly true to me, but I appreciate its your view on things like I have mine.

[Holtyclaret]

i.e. I'm talking boll*cks and have nothing to base things on but for my inane prejudices

No, I have my opinion based on what I’ve seen as you do. I just don’t overthink things like some.

[Devils_Advocate]

No, I have my opinion based on what I’ve seen as you do. I just don’t overthink things like some.

Starmer has painstakingly avoided point scoring. He has even openly said at PMQs he is not going to give his opinion but base things on either scientific or the govts own advice/words.

He has added a caveat to most of is points that he understands the challenges the govt face and how difficult a task they have and welcomed the positive stuff

Where the govt have lied or have been vague and ambiguous he has challenged the govt and held them rightfully to account

He has absolutely walked the tightrope between challenging the govt without point scoring and this is why Im interested to hear some real examples why you have an opposite view to this

I can only assume you are talking b*llocks and have no grounding in reality for you opinions but I am happy to hear your thoughts and see the facts / logic you base it on