Schools

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
aggi
Posts: 8763
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Schools

Post by aggi » Mon May 18, 2020 1:33 pm

dsr wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:28 pm
My theory is that teachers are hard workers who see their job is key and want to work; but the unions are opposed to that and want to stop teachers from working. I really don't see how teachers going to school to teach kids breaks that theory.

I think perhaps a lot of people have seen a post about teaching, have seen that there is criticism, and have decided that it must be unfair because teachers are wonderful. I have very carefully steered away from any criticism at all of teachers, except perhaps in their choice of union bosses. It's the unions that I am criticising.
Given your repeated references to sitting at home and going back to work it's pretty clear you weren't aware that teachers were already in schools with pupils (or if you were aware had chosen to ignore it). If teaching unions didn't view teachers as key workers and are so opposed to teachers going to school then how come they're currently in schools?

Saying that, even if you were careful to avoid direct criticism of teachers there's still an implicit suggestion that they are happy to sit in their nice homes with gardens without worrying about the various disadavantaged, vulnerable children, etc who are missing out on schooling (admittedly it seems that you are also unaware that a fair number of those vulnerable children were going into school anyway being taught by the teachers that you weren't aware were there). Maybe that isn't what you intended to write but that's certainly how it came across.

MACCA
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:10 am
Been Liked: 4360 times

Re: Schools

Post by MACCA » Mon May 18, 2020 1:36 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:48 pm
There you go again with your usual sweeping generalisation this time about another profession.

Is there anything you aren’t an expert on?
I have an opinion, I state in the give an explanation as to why I think this, you on the other hand seem to repeat things over and over again without explaining or backing up your opinion.

And "sweeping generalisations" as you put it is all anyone can do as I doubt very much anyone can 100% confirm 100% of a group of people's, or in this case professions thoughts...

dsr
Posts: 15139
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: Schools

Post by dsr » Mon May 18, 2020 1:36 pm

martin_p wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:03 pm
The king of ill-informed ******** has really out done himself this time. I know a number of teachers and this couldn’t be further from the truth.
I really don't see how knowing a number of teachers is any qualification at all for knowing whether what I wrote about union leaders is true. If I had written a load of stuff about teachers, then knowing teachers would be a good guide to whether it is true. But if you want to assess whether what I wrote about union leaders is true, you need to know the union leaders.

Alternatively, reading the post or reading the many posts when I have pointed out that I AM TALKING ABOUT UNION LEADERS would help.

tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4644 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Re: Schools

Post by tiger76 » Mon May 18, 2020 1:38 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:58 pm
I am not making sweeping generalisations like some and I was a school governor for more than 15 years so I do have some knowledge about teaching and education.

I have got to say I don’t understand the rationale for sending back the very young primary school children - they tend to need more teaching support, will have less of an understanding of social distancing and washing hands than others etc....but there may be some rationale around losing out on their education needs quicker or more than other ages that I am not aware of.

As for other ages I don’t see why we should not be allowing them to return on a phased / gradual and safe basis. I’m not surprised the communication and collaboration on this has not been great and unfortunately that has caused the conflict between unions and the government. It does not sound insurmountable though and we should be doing what we can to get schools back. I’d also be looking at whether we can have some children / teachers in over the summer to try and close some of the learning gaps that will have emerged.
This post covers all the points the government should have been addressing,but as per their communication has been shambolic.

I agree regarding young primary children,surely they can't be missing out on that much education at their tender age so it's pointless them returning for 3-4 weeks max,prior to the summer break.

Older age groups yes i don't see why they can't return on a phased basis,obviously any child who has conditions such as asthma would be an additional issue,and it might be wiser to allow them to remain at home for now.

Teachers working over the summer,yes if they're agreeable and suitable recompensed that could be feasible,but i thought all the teachers were lazy beggars with gold plated pensions.

I don't envy Gavin Williamson when he attends the next NUT conference,i don't think he'll get a warm welcome.
This user liked this post: TVC15

dsr
Posts: 15139
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: Schools

Post by dsr » Mon May 18, 2020 1:43 pm

aggi wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:33 pm
Given your repeated references to sitting at home and going back to work it's pretty clear you weren't aware that teachers were already in schools with pupils (or if you were aware had chosen to ignore it). If teaching unions didn't view teachers as key workers and are so opposed to teachers going to school then how come they're currently in schools?

Saying that, even if you were careful to avoid direct criticism of teachers there's still an implicit suggestion that they are happy to sit in their nice homes with gardens without worrying about the various disadavantaged, vulnerable children, etc who are missing out on schooling (admittedly it seems that you are also unaware that a fair number of those vulnerable children were going into school anyway being taught by the teachers that you weren't aware were there). Maybe that isn't what you intended to write but that's certainly how it came across.
I wasn't aware that they all were. I saw a video of teachers of one school which is currently closed where all the teachers made their contribution from home; there was no implication that they were all going in as normal. It would make a lot more sense if they were working from home, actually, because if every teacher is back in school to educate only 2% of the pupils, the remaining 98% are being left behind.

If the implication is that they don't want to work, I'm sorry. It wasn't meant to be. The implication is meant to be that the unions don't want them to go back to work.

Obviously we don't want teachers to die. But equally obviously, we want children to be educated. In most professions, there is compromise between getting on with the job and being as safe as possible, and in most professions there is an acceptance of greater risk. The medical profession is obviously almost 100% towards getting on with the job regardless of risk; other, less key, industries like supermarkets and food manufacture can carry on with the job while moderating the risk somewhat. The teaching unions are giving the impression that they do not want teachers' risk to be compromised with the idea of getting the job done, they want teachers' risk to be no more than it was before coronavirus.

MACCA
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:10 am
Been Liked: 4360 times

Re: Schools

Post by MACCA » Mon May 18, 2020 1:46 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:02 pm
The risks facing NHS and care-workers seem to have been eliminated somewhat because of tragic lessons learned but you seriously expect teachers to go to work in conditions where there is a heightened risk of infection ?

Would you ? Would you **** !

You've got a grudge against teachers, fair enough, but for God's sake, rein it in a little and use some commonsense.
Firstly teachers can wear PPE and take extra caution whenever possible.

As for your 2nd point, yes, and I am....

Regards your last point, no I dont not all, I work and have worked with many fantastic teachers who are a credit to their profession, but I'll call a spade a spade.
Many other professions are facing a tough ask to carry out their job, but seem to be able to get on with things and try and do their best regardless of risks whether that's extremely low or quite high.

I'd guess if it was a no work, no pay scenario many would go back...

I get teachers, ex teachers and partners of teachers will back each other to the hilt, and you can spot them a mile off on here, but with the way they're putting there point across it's like there being asked to be land mine detectors with no equipment.

martin_p
Posts: 10368
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 pm
Been Liked: 3764 times
Has Liked: 696 times

Re: Schools

Post by martin_p » Mon May 18, 2020 1:46 pm

dsr wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:36 pm
I really don't see how knowing a number of teachers is any qualification at all for knowing whether what I wrote about union leaders is true. If I had written a load of stuff about teachers, then knowing teachers would be a good guide to whether it is true. But if you want to assess whether what I wrote about union leaders is true, you need to know the union leaders.

Alternatively, reading the post or reading the many posts when I have pointed out that I AM TALKING ABOUT UNION LEADERS would help.
You seem not to have read your own post.

‘ So the teachers, most of whom let's face it have nice houses with gardens and are comfortably off, won't even enter negotiations with the government in when to get back to work. The potentially abused children, the inner-city children, the children with no gardens, the children with no computer, the children whose parents are going dotty with frustration, the children who do not get proper food at home - when do those children get back to school? The unions don't really care. The unions are for the teachers.

If the teachers don't want people to feel that they are dodging the column sitting comfortably at home while their vital work is not being done - then get new union leaders. Resign in droves from the unions that are misrepresenting you; join another union or become non-union for a little while. Let your leaders know that they are not speaking for you.’

If that bit isn’t about teachers maybe you shouldn’t have used the word ‘teachers’ so many times.

Claretnick
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:41 am
Been Liked: 214 times
Has Liked: 191 times

Re: Schools

Post by Claretnick » Mon May 18, 2020 1:53 pm

I am not a headteacher or a teacher, but to just give you a flavour of the guidance issued by the Government last week;
https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus/education-and-childcare

And this is one of the detailed guides;
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... e-settings

Difficult enough to teach never mind putting these guides into practice. One thing that does puzzle me is why are the private schools not re-opening until September at the earliest?

Claretnick
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:41 am
Been Liked: 214 times
Has Liked: 191 times

Re: Schools

Post by Claretnick » Mon May 18, 2020 1:59 pm

MACCA wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:46 pm
Firstly teachers can wear PPE and take extra caution whenever possible.
From the Government guidance for schools that I linked in a separate post;

' Wearing a face covering or face mask in schools or other education settings is not recommended. Face coverings may be beneficial for short periods indoors where there is a risk of close social contact with people you do not usually meet and where social distancing and other measures cannot be maintained, for example on public transport or in some shops. This does not apply to schools or other education settings. Schools and other education or childcare settings should therefore not require staff, children and learners to wear face coverings. Changing habits, cleaning and hygiene are effective measures in controlling the spread of the virus '.

Steve-Harpers-perm
Posts: 5744
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
Been Liked: 1868 times
Has Liked: 835 times

Re: Schools

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Mon May 18, 2020 2:01 pm

Claretnick wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:53 pm
I am not a headteacher or a teacher, but to just give you a flavour of the guidance issued by the Government last week;
https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus/education-and-childcare

And this is one of the detailed guides;
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... e-settings

Difficult enough to teach never mind putting these guides into practice. One thing that does puzzle me is why are the private schools not re-opening until September at the earliest?
Difficult to put in place for an entire lazy moaning profession.

Private schools will have the resources (and the families of the children that attend them) to ensure they all have access to online learning I’d imagine which is why they aren’t going back till September.

Steve-Harpers-perm
Posts: 5744
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
Been Liked: 1868 times
Has Liked: 835 times

Re: Schools

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Mon May 18, 2020 2:15 pm

Claretnick wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:59 pm
From the Government guidance for schools that I linked in a separate post;

' Wearing a face covering or face mask in schools or other education settings is not recommended. Face coverings may be beneficial for short periods indoors where there is a risk of close social contact with people you do not usually meet and where social distancing and other measures cannot be maintained, for example on public transport or in some shops. This does not apply to schools or other education settings. Schools and other education or childcare settings should therefore not require staff, children and learners to wear face coverings. Changing habits, cleaning and hygiene are effective measures in controlling the spread of the virus '.
Ill informed opinions are much more important than facts.

MACCA
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:10 am
Been Liked: 4360 times

Re: Schools

Post by MACCA » Mon May 18, 2020 2:16 pm

Claretnick wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:59 pm
From the Government guidance for schools that I linked in a separate post;

' Wearing a face covering or face mask in schools or other education settings is not recommended. Face coverings may be beneficial for short periods indoors where there is a risk of close social contact with people you do not usually meet and where social distancing and other measures cannot be maintained, for example on public transport or in some shops. This does not apply to schools or other education settings. Schools and other education or childcare settings should therefore not require staff, children and learners to wear face coverings. Changing habits, cleaning and hygiene are effective measures in controlling the spread of the virus '.
Suppose they could if they wanted as its only "recommended" if they wanted to protect themselves more than the guidelines.
At least if we all stick to the effective measures it will control the virus.

I think theyll be still some not happy as they dont want the virus controlling by the sounds of it, they want it 100% gone.

You'd have thought no other viruses and illness were around pre covid.

BurningBeard
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:31 pm
Been Liked: 196 times
Has Liked: 158 times

Re: Schools

Post by BurningBeard » Mon May 18, 2020 2:37 pm

MACCA wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:16 pm

I think theyll be still some not happy as they dont want the virus controlling by the sounds of it, they want it 100% gone.

You'd have thought no other viruses and illness were around pre covid.
Literally nobody is saying this. The BMA have said it's too risky to open schools in their view. Is their opinion valid?

Claretnick
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:41 am
Been Liked: 214 times
Has Liked: 191 times

Re: Schools

Post by Claretnick » Mon May 18, 2020 2:40 pm

I agree we are going to have to adapt our lives too living with this new virus, it could be here forever especially if a vaccine cannot be found. Common cold is a virus and we don't have a vaccine though we can live with it as it is not as devastating.

I just don't see the need to rush the school's back for a few weeks before the summer holiday period kicks in, unless the hidden objective is to use the schools as a childminding service. If September is good enough for private educators why the rush for State schools, I see that Stonyhurst College are aiming for a September return and they educate early year children. Science has not yet pinned down any link with Covid19 and Kawasaki disease,
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... sease.html

TVC15
Posts: 8211
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:09 pm
Been Liked: 3321 times
Has Liked: 601 times

Re: Schools

Post by TVC15 » Mon May 18, 2020 2:46 pm

aggi wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:33 pm
Given your repeated references to sitting at home and going back to work it's pretty clear you weren't aware that teachers were already in schools with pupils (or if you were aware had chosen to ignore it). If teaching unions didn't view teachers as key workers and are so opposed to teachers going to school then how come they're currently in schools?
I am not at all agreeing with some of the ill informed anti teacher stuff on here but did you mention in a previous post that the majority of teachers were already win schools with pupils ?
My understanding and experience of some schools in this area is not this. The majority of teachers I am aware of have not been in school during this period because there have only been a small number of pupils in many schools (so no fault of the teachers may I hasten to add). I know of one large secondary school in our area where only 2 or 3 pupils were coming into school.
We already know that across the country only a small fraction of the vulnerable children have been going in (was it less than 10% quoted ?).

aggi
Posts: 8763
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Schools

Post by aggi » Mon May 18, 2020 3:32 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:46 pm
I am not at all agreeing with some of the ill informed anti teacher stuff on here but did you mention in a previous post that the majority of teachers were already win schools with pupils ?
My understanding and experience of some schools in this area is not this. The majority of teachers I am aware of have not been in school during this period because there have only been a small number of pupils in many schools (so no fault of the teachers may I hasten to add). I know of one large secondary school in our area where only 2 or 3 pupils were coming into school.
We already know that across the country only a small fraction of the vulnerable children have been going in (was it less than 10% quoted ?).
They're not in every day but a lot are in every week (there's been rota systems, joining classes etc so not everyone is required in every day). This is primary school as that is what is being talked about at the moment in terms of returning. (I'm possibly also in a different part of the country.)

Agreed about vulnerable pupils but whether or not that will change if their class goes back I'm not sure. The option has always been there and I suspect that schools/councils aren't going to enforce the rules on those pupils who aren't attending.

MACCA
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:10 am
Been Liked: 4360 times

Re: Schools

Post by MACCA » Mon May 18, 2020 4:08 pm

BurningBeard wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:37 pm
Literally nobody is saying this. The BMA have said it's too risky to open schools in their view. Is their opinion valid?
Yes, I'll go all out and say BMA and your opinion is correct.
My opinion was pie in the sky, and all the worry teachers have about going back in 3 weeks is justified as they probably know projected figures and stats if how it will be on their return.

They should only return when every single one of them is good and ready to do so, and they have my full support.
Last edited by MACCA on Mon May 18, 2020 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4644 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Re: Schools

Post by tiger76 » Mon May 18, 2020 4:11 pm

Hmm!

French schools shut after child tests positive

Seven schools have closed as a precaution in the north-eastern French city of Roubaix after a child tested positive for coronavirus.

Officials say they will tell the families of those who came in contact with the child. Meanwhile, the shuttered schools will conduct lessons remotely.

French schools began to reopen last week as the country slowly eased its lockdown. But many were concerned about the move, with one poll showing 69% of respondents thought authorities could not keep them safe. A number of other schools have since closed because of positive cases.

Education Minister Jean-Michel Blanquer told French broadcaster RTL on Monday that 70 cases of the virus had been found in the roughly 40,000 schools that have opened since last week. He said all affected schools had been shut, showing how strict the authorities were being on safety.

But he also said that not teaching children could have serious consequences. "Our children must not be collateral victims of health measures," he reportedly said.

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12345
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5202 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: Schools

Post by Devils_Advocate » Mon May 18, 2020 4:15 pm

Has anyone double checked to make sure the French kid who's tested positive isn't really a Trade Union official dressed up as a child in the schools uniform?

Can you help with this one DSR?
These 3 users liked this post: Bordeauxclaret JohnDearyMe Greenmile

MACCA
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:10 am
Been Liked: 4360 times

Re: Schools

Post by MACCA » Mon May 18, 2020 4:20 pm

Tiger - the question is, how do you know when the child contracted Covid19 and where from.

Obviously a normal school environment helps illness spread quickly due to the amount of children in one place, and children's actions and hygiene not being the best.

The question is what figures or stats are people wanting to reach before giving it the green light?

I'm sure someone will have the opinion that children shouldn't go back until theres not been a single case of covid19 for 30 consecutive days or something that exaggerated.

Maybe a let those go back who's parents want too, and let those teachers willing to teach, teach approach may work.
As I'm sure many are not just happy sat on their pay packets at home and those wanting to teach will, and those not wanting to will be happy not to be paid or take big pay cuts.
This user liked this post: fatboy47

tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4644 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Re: Schools

Post by tiger76 » Mon May 18, 2020 4:28 pm

MACCA wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:20 pm
Tiger - the question is, how do you know when the child contracted Covid19 and where from.

Obviously a normal school environment helps illness spread quickly due to the amount of children in one place, and children's actions and hygiene not being the best.

The question is what figures or stats are people wanting to reach before giving it the green light?

I'm sure someone will have the opinion that children shouldn't go back until theres not been a single case of covid19 for 30 consecutive days or something that exaggerated.

Maybe a let those go back who's parents want too, and let those teachers willing to teach, teach approach may work.
As I'm sure many are not just happy sat on their pay packets at home and those wanting to teach will, and those not wanting to will be happy not to be paid or take big pay cuts.
30 days without a case is ridiculous and that won't happen for months maybe even years so we have to find some form of compromise.

I don't disagree with your last paragraph,and that would be classed as a phased return,and certainly at secondary school age should be viable,social distancing shouldn't be that difficult to implement with children of that age,after all many will have been conditioned to this during the lockdown.

Younger children are much more difficult to control and therefore i'd be wary about that age group returning until after the summer holidays.

Steve-Harpers-perm
Posts: 5744
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
Been Liked: 1868 times
Has Liked: 835 times

Re: Schools

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Mon May 18, 2020 4:30 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:15 pm
Has anyone double checked to make sure the French kid who's tested positive isn't really a Trade Union official dressed up as a child in the schools uniform?

Can you help with this one DSR?
Did he live in a big house with a garden?

evensteadiereddie
Posts: 9585
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:45 pm
Been Liked: 3146 times
Has Liked: 10202 times
Location: Staffordshire

Re: Schools

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon May 18, 2020 4:38 pm

Probably has a car, too.
Bourgeoise ******* !

Bordeauxclaret
Posts: 10273
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:36 pm
Been Liked: 3327 times
Has Liked: 1942 times

Re: Schools

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Mon May 18, 2020 4:41 pm

Bury the next council to advise schools not to follow government plans.

fatboy47
Posts: 4179
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:58 am
Been Liked: 2317 times
Has Liked: 2693 times
Location: Isles of Scilly

Re: Schools

Post by fatboy47 » Mon May 18, 2020 4:46 pm

Tory Governments....especially right wing ones, have longer memories than elephants. This needless interference will rebound on those areas in years to come when big funding decisions are being made in Whitehall.

And it will be the residents who bear the brunt.

Steve-Harpers-perm
Posts: 5744
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
Been Liked: 1868 times
Has Liked: 835 times

Re: Schools

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Mon May 18, 2020 4:48 pm

To be fair they’ve done quite well at that already over the past decade.

BurningBeard
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:31 pm
Been Liked: 196 times
Has Liked: 158 times

Re: Schools

Post by BurningBeard » Mon May 18, 2020 4:48 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:41 pm
Bury the next council to advise schools not to follow government plans.
Is that Bury the town or what should happen to the next council to not comply? ;)
These 2 users liked this post: Bordeauxclaret Steve-Harpers-perm

MACCA
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:10 am
Been Liked: 4360 times

Re: Schools

Post by MACCA » Mon May 18, 2020 4:51 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:41 pm
Bury the next council to advise schools not to follow government plans.
They could have issued a don't follow government plans 8 weeks ago, I'd have been able to go and see my family and friends then or at least eat at my favourite places.

Be interesting in future as to what government plans or guidelines we should or shouldn't follow.

Maybe councils and Unions should run the country

dsr
Posts: 15139
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: Schools

Post by dsr » Mon May 18, 2020 5:01 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:15 pm
Has anyone double checked to make sure the French kid who's tested positive isn't really a Trade Union official dressed up as a child in the schools uniform?

Can you help with this one DSR?
French schools don't have uniforms.

ClaretMov
Posts: 2499
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:13 pm
Been Liked: 843 times
Has Liked: 822 times

Re: Schools

Post by ClaretMov » Mon May 18, 2020 5:01 pm

20200518_164856.png
20200518_164856.png (1.24 MiB) Viewed 1866 times
Primary schools in France have resumed with children having been assigned individual play spaces. To have children growing up afraid of one another and fearing closeness is criminal, this is what's going to happen when you social distance early years Children.

Steve-Harpers-perm
Posts: 5744
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
Been Liked: 1868 times
Has Liked: 835 times

Re: Schools

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Mon May 18, 2020 5:02 pm

MACCA wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:51 pm
They could have issued a don't follow government plans 8 weeks ago, I'd have been able to go and see my family and friends then or at least eat at my favourite places.

Be interesting in future as to what government plans or guidelines we should or shouldn't follow.

Maybe councils and Unions should run the country
If they were following that logic then wouldn’t they have every child from every year group in both primary and secondary school back??

dsr
Posts: 15139
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: Schools

Post by dsr » Mon May 18, 2020 5:02 pm

MACCA wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:20 pm
Tiger - the question is, how do you know when the child contracted Covid19 and where from.

Obviously a normal school environment helps illness spread quickly due to the amount of children in one place, and children's actions and hygiene not being the best.

The question is what figures or stats are people wanting to reach before giving it the green light?

I'm sure someone will have the opinion that children shouldn't go back until theres not been a single case of covid19 for 30 consecutive days or something that exaggerated.

Maybe a let those go back who's parents want too, and let those teachers willing to teach, teach approach may work.
As I'm sure many are not just happy sat on their pay packets at home and those wanting to teach will, and those not wanting to will be happy not to be paid or take big pay cuts.
How about using the same test as they do for closing down schools when a child gets flu? That'll at least make people think about the risk.

MACCA
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:10 am
Been Liked: 4360 times

Re: Schools

Post by MACCA » Mon May 18, 2020 5:05 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:28 pm
30 days without a case is ridiculous and that won't happen for months maybe even years so we have to find some form of compromise.

I don't disagree with your last paragraph,and that would be classed as a phased return,and certainly at secondary school age should be viable,social distancing shouldn't be that difficult to implement with children of that age,after all many will have been conditioned to this during the lockdown.

Younger children are much more difficult to control and therefore i'd be wary about that age group returning until after the summer holidays.
You can't compromise with people that dont want to compromise, how many people out there will be happy sat in their house doing little or nothing on 80 or 100% wages?
Plenty.

A different argument all together, but I'd ask those who are furloughed or not willing to work but still sit on their contracts,
to go out litter picking, cleaning up the rivers and countryside etc.

There's plenty of things out there what can be done whilst social distancing that will help your community and/or the country.

Problem is, too many will have got comfortable.

Why go back to work when you can enjoy the warm weather in your garden, or go and play golf, tennis etc.
It will be a no brainer for quite a lot of people.
There's excuses a plenty out there at the moment, and just as many people prepared to use them if it suits what they want.

Steve-Harpers-perm
Posts: 5744
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
Been Liked: 1868 times
Has Liked: 835 times

Re: Schools

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Mon May 18, 2020 5:07 pm

You do like to speak on behalf of ‘the many’ a lot don’t you.

MACCA
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:10 am
Been Liked: 4360 times

Re: Schools

Post by MACCA » Mon May 18, 2020 5:09 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:02 pm
If they were following that logic then wouldn’t they have every child from every year group in both primary and secondary school back??
We should just let the teachers decide when they want to go back.
When they are 100% happy to return, because its 100% safe to return, then they should open the schools fully then.

I dont even know why they government are making these regulations or guidelines, total waste of time.

I got to stay off work for as long as I liked, I also returned to work when I chose too, should be the same for everyone IMO, then its fair

But that's just my opinion

MACCA
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:10 am
Been Liked: 4360 times

Re: Schools

Post by MACCA » Mon May 18, 2020 5:11 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:07 pm
You do like to speak on behalf of ‘the many’ a lot don’t you.
Do I?

I do like your short none informative replies though, still without an expressed an opinion of your own..

Quickenthetempo
Posts: 17930
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:35 am
Been Liked: 3845 times
Has Liked: 2066 times

Re: Schools

Post by Quickenthetempo » Mon May 18, 2020 5:11 pm

Realistically, if the Government declare it safe. What can the unions do?

The Tories don't really listen to them do they? They don't hold much power.

Teachers are on salary, so full pay, but if they refuse to work then funding would be withdrawn I presume?

Is it local level paid or from central Government?

If it's local council funded it should be their decision.

FactualFrank
Posts: 25445
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:46 am
Been Liked: 6930 times
Has Liked: 11660 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Schools

Post by FactualFrank » Mon May 18, 2020 5:18 pm

ClaretMov wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:01 pm
20200518_164856.pngPrimary schools in France have resumed with children having been assigned individual play spaces. To have children growing up afraid of one another and fearing closeness is criminal, this is what's going to happen when you social distance early years Children.
Hmm, yeah that doesn't look great looking at that. Although to say they're going to grow up and be afraid of one another is simply an assumption and there's been enough assuming on this board over the last few weeks to last a lifetime.

Steve-Harpers-perm
Posts: 5744
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
Been Liked: 1868 times
Has Liked: 835 times

Re: Schools

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Mon May 18, 2020 5:24 pm

MACCA wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:09 pm
We should just let the teachers decide when they want to go back.
When they are 100% happy to return, because its 100% safe to return, then they should open the schools fully then.

I dont even know why they government are making these regulations or guidelines, total waste of time.

I got to stay off work for as long as I liked, I also returned to work when I chose too, should be the same for everyone IMO, then its fair

But that's just my opinion
Your point made zero sense though as you said if Bury Council don’t want schools back on 1st June then they should just also have ignored the government lockdown altogether which would allow you to go about life as normal pre virus? Hey just my opinion though..

BurningBeard
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:31 pm
Been Liked: 196 times
Has Liked: 158 times

Re: Schools

Post by BurningBeard » Mon May 18, 2020 5:26 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:07 pm
You do like to speak on behalf of ‘the many’ a lot don’t you.
Loves a good straw man argument as well.

MACCA
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:10 am
Been Liked: 4360 times

Re: Schools

Post by MACCA » Mon May 18, 2020 5:28 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:24 pm
Your point made zero sense though as you said if Bury Council don’t want schools back on 1st June then they should just also have ignored the government lockdown altogether which would allow you to go about life as normal pre virus? Hey just my opinion though..
I did not say that at all.

MACCA
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:10 am
Been Liked: 4360 times

Re: Schools

Post by MACCA » Mon May 18, 2020 5:29 pm

BurningBeard wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:26 pm
Loves a good straw man argument as well.
Along with many...

Billy Balfour
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 3:00 pm
Been Liked: 1857 times
Has Liked: 652 times

Re: Schools

Post by Billy Balfour » Mon May 18, 2020 5:33 pm

70 cases of COVID-19 at French schools days after re-opening

PARIS - Just one week after a third of French schoolchildren went back to school in an easing of the coronavirus lockdown, there’s been a worrying flareup of about 70 COVID-19 cases linked to schools.

https://bit.ly/3bHKwJV

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12345
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5202 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: Schools

Post by Devils_Advocate » Mon May 18, 2020 6:00 pm

dsr wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:01 pm
French schools don't have uniforms.
I knew you'd be on to it making sure those pesky unions weren't involved and up to no good

Image

Steve-Harpers-perm
Posts: 5744
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
Been Liked: 1868 times
Has Liked: 835 times

Re: Schools

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Mon May 18, 2020 6:16 pm

MACCA wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:28 pm
I did not say that at all.
No you typed and posted it at 3.51pm!!!

aggi
Posts: 8763
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Schools

Post by aggi » Mon May 18, 2020 6:37 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:11 pm
Realistically, if the Government declare it safe. What can the unions do?

The Tories don't really listen to them do they? They don't hold much power.

Teachers are on salary, so full pay, but if they refuse to work then funding would be withdrawn I presume?

Is it local level paid or from central Government?

If it's local council funded it should be their decision.
Schools are generally funded by local councils (academies are an exception and I guess there are probably some others).
This user liked this post: Quickenthetempo

ClaretMov
Posts: 2499
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:13 pm
Been Liked: 843 times
Has Liked: 822 times

Re: Schools

Post by ClaretMov » Mon May 18, 2020 6:38 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:11 pm
Realistically, if the Government declare it safe. What can the unions do?

The Tories don't really listen to them do they? They don't hold much power.

Teachers are on salary, so full pay, but if they refuse to work then funding would be withdrawn I presume?

Is it local level paid or from central Government?

If it's local council funded it should be their decision.


Section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996, which protects an employee’s right to withdraw from a workplace if THEY believe it is unsafe.

If appropriate ppe is not supplied and/or social distancing is not possible from 2,3,4 and 5 year olds it will/can be classed unsafe, and the union's will use this Employment Rights Act.
This user liked this post: Quickenthetempo

nil_desperandum
Posts: 7301
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
Been Liked: 1823 times
Has Liked: 3952 times

Re: Schools

Post by nil_desperandum » Mon May 18, 2020 6:58 pm

MACCA wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:51 pm
They could have issued a don't follow government plans 8 weeks ago,.............
Be interesting in future as to what government plans or guidelines we should or shouldn't follow.
Maybe councils and Unions should run the country
I think that the important point here is that whilst the government is issuing guidelines, maybe even directives, from on high, it's the local authority who have to implement them and who would be liable if there were breaches of health and safety that led to either serious issues or even deaths, (of pupils or staff).
Given that the Public health bodies are advising against reopening, then the Councils would have little defence in court should parents bring claims against them. So you can't really blame the local authorities who are going against government guidelines.

evensteadiereddie
Posts: 9585
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:45 pm
Been Liked: 3146 times
Has Liked: 10202 times
Location: Staffordshire

Re: Schools

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon May 18, 2020 7:44 pm

Macca, what is it you do for a living ? Genuine question, I'm interested to see what kind of risks of infection you face or don't face at work.
Last edited by evensteadiereddie on Mon May 18, 2020 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MACCA
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:10 am
Been Liked: 4360 times

Re: Schools

Post by MACCA » Mon May 18, 2020 7:51 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 6:16 pm
No you typed and posted it at 3.51pm!!!
Wrong again, no I didnt.
Quote both mine and your post then, there's probably not 3 consecutive words the same..

Post Reply