Covid-19
Re: Covid-19
Lost track of this thread
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Re: Covid-19
EUROPE has been warned to prepare for a second deadly wave of the coronavirus in the winter.
A top World Health Organisation chief has warned that Europe must not relax as daily figures continue to decrease. Dr Hans Kluge, director for the WHO European region, said he was "very concerned" a surge in infections would coincide with other seasonal diseases such as the flu.
He said now is the time to strengthen health care systems by increasing bed capacity so that countries are ready to brace more patients.
The WHO boss cautioned that now is the time for "preparation, not celebration" across Europe - even if daily numbers of cases and deaths are dwindling.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/12 ... death-toll
A top World Health Organisation chief has warned that Europe must not relax as daily figures continue to decrease. Dr Hans Kluge, director for the WHO European region, said he was "very concerned" a surge in infections would coincide with other seasonal diseases such as the flu.
He said now is the time to strengthen health care systems by increasing bed capacity so that countries are ready to brace more patients.
The WHO boss cautioned that now is the time for "preparation, not celebration" across Europe - even if daily numbers of cases and deaths are dwindling.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/12 ... death-toll
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Re: Covid-19
Dr Hans Kluge needs to lighten the f*** up. It's summer now, I'll worry about this in November.
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Re: Covid-19
Yeah but it's in the Express who will be combining this story with a prediction that it will be coldest winter since the ice age.NottsClaret wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:18 amDr Hans Kluge needs to lighten the f*** up. It's summer now, I'll worry about this in November.
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Re: Covid-19
Matthew Syed, Sunday Times, yesterday. Worth a read from all those who are interested in UK's preparedness, or otherwise, for covid-19.
A lot of comments derived from reading SAGE papers and the Cygnus (?) Pandemic response planning exercise 2016.
Coronavirus: fixated on the flu and shrouded in secrecy, Britain’s scientists picked the wrong remedy
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/af7a ... e1c7d5343e
Syed starts by reference to a plane crash in Florida in Dec 1972.
Quote: "This is considered a seminal incident in aviation, because it reflects a key bias in decision-making. It is easy for groups to become fixated on one aspect of a fast-changing situation, thereby missing others. This phenomenon has many terms, such as groupthink and inattentional blindness, but the point is the same. A defective judgment is made because a group misses something that would have been detectable had it sustained a broader perspective."
A lot of comments derived from reading SAGE papers and the Cygnus (?) Pandemic response planning exercise 2016.
Coronavirus: fixated on the flu and shrouded in secrecy, Britain’s scientists picked the wrong remedy
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/af7a ... e1c7d5343e
Syed starts by reference to a plane crash in Florida in Dec 1972.
Quote: "This is considered a seminal incident in aviation, because it reflects a key bias in decision-making. It is easy for groups to become fixated on one aspect of a fast-changing situation, thereby missing others. This phenomenon has many terms, such as groupthink and inattentional blindness, but the point is the same. A defective judgment is made because a group misses something that would have been detectable had it sustained a broader perspective."
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Re: Covid-19
But will Statins help or hinder the virus? Big decision for them to make.TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:20 amYeah but it's in the Express who will be combining this story with a prediction that it will be coldest winter since the ice age.
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Re: Covid-19
Did Maddie have Covid19? Diana's CV-19 fears for her boys.Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:29 amBut will Statins help or hinder the virus? Big decision for them to make.
Re: Covid-19
Hopefully governments don't have the same attitudeNottsClaret wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:18 amDr Hans Kluge needs to lighten the f*** up. It's summer now, I'll worry about this in November.
Re: Covid-19
Interesting read, thanks PaulPaul Waine wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:22 amMatthew Syed, Sunday Times, yesterday. Worth a read from all those who are interested in UK's preparedness, or otherwise, for covid-19.
A lot of comments derived from reading SAGE papers and the Cygnus (?) Pandemic response planning exercise 2016.
Coronavirus: fixated on the flu and shrouded in secrecy, Britain’s scientists picked the wrong remedy
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/af7a ... e1c7d5343e
Syed starts by reference to a plane crash in Florida in Dec 1972.
Quote: "This is considered a seminal incident in aviation, because it reflects a key bias in decision-making. It is easy for groups to become fixated on one aspect of a fast-changing situation, thereby missing others. This phenomenon has many terms, such as groupthink and inattentional blindness, but the point is the same. A defective judgment is made because a group misses something that would have been detectable had it sustained a broader perspective."
Re: Covid-19
Privileged metropolitans who resist ending lockdown - while on state backed furlough schemes mind you - as they enjoy an extended summer in the parks, should consider those less fortunate before they exploit this opportunity to judge, preach & moralise at their “lessers”claretandy wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 6:07 amThread.
https://twitter.com/MaajidNawaz/status/ ... 5588812805
Is this Ringo's alter-ego?
It makes some good points but the premise that the priveleged metropolitans are against ending the "stay at home" advice whilst their "lessers" are all eager to get back to work seems to be entirely made up.
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Re: Covid-19
Anyone who enjoys Mrs Browns Boys should be tested now as Government updates advise to include those who have lost all sense of taste.
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Re: Covid-19
Taiwan who effectively shut all borders in good time:
Population 23.78 million
Cases 440.
Deaths 7.
UK who left porous borders open with no quarantine or checking and even from countries in the midst of the outbreak:
Population 66.65 million
Cases 244,000 ( confirmed )
Deaths 34,636
To date
Population 23.78 million
Cases 440.
Deaths 7.
UK who left porous borders open with no quarantine or checking and even from countries in the midst of the outbreak:
Population 66.65 million
Cases 244,000 ( confirmed )
Deaths 34,636
To date
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Re: Covid-19
Yes, I recall one poster being very vocal about how open borders have allowed the virus to spread unchecked. Interestingly though, he hasn't commented on our government's failing to close them.Blackrod wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 1:10 pmTaiwan who effectively shut all borders in good time:
Population 23.78 million
Cases 440.
Deaths 7.
UK who left porous borders open with no quarantine or checking and even from countries in the midst of the outbreak:
Population 66.65 million
Cases 244,000 ( confirmed )
Deaths 34,636
To date
Re: Covid-19
The government need questioning more on this. There are plenty of other people examples of countries that acted swiftly in this respect( such as NZ ) and have seen much lower numbers and have the virus firmly under control. To say they acted on medical and scientific advice at the time doesn’t really cut it. Someone somewhere in the chain of command should have realised action was needed sooner.
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Re: Covid-19
Joking aside once again we're one of the last countries to add the taste and smell advise. We just stuck to the very first data that came early out of China in terms of fever or cough.
Epidemiologist, head of the King College program who has a wealth of data with 2.3million users say's study shows loss of taste & smell is the best single predictor symptom.
Speculated other symptoms had not been add because there simply weren't enough tests and would appear even more overwhelmed if they expanded the criteria for testing. Which resulted in people with the virus not isolating adding even more cases & deaths to the population.
Also hesitant to use any data outside of the NHS, PHE bubble.
Epidemiologist, head of the King College program who has a wealth of data with 2.3million users say's study shows loss of taste & smell is the best single predictor symptom.
Speculated other symptoms had not been add because there simply weren't enough tests and would appear even more overwhelmed if they expanded the criteria for testing. Which resulted in people with the virus not isolating adding even more cases & deaths to the population.
Also hesitant to use any data outside of the NHS, PHE bubble.
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Re: Covid-19
28 May when Scotland's lockdown might be eased https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-52707747
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Re: Covid-19
All over-fives to get tests in UK
Everyone over the age of five living in the UK with symptoms of coronavirus will soon be eligible to be tested, the health secretary has just told MPs.
The move has been agreed by Matt Hancock and his counterparts in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Testing in England and Scotland is currently limited to key workers, hospital patients, care home residents, the over-65s and those who need to leave home for work.
In Northern Ireland and Wales, it is confined to key workers, hospital patients and care home residents.
Everyone over the age of five living in the UK with symptoms of coronavirus will soon be eligible to be tested, the health secretary has just told MPs.
The move has been agreed by Matt Hancock and his counterparts in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Testing in England and Scotland is currently limited to key workers, hospital patients, care home residents, the over-65s and those who need to leave home for work.
In Northern Ireland and Wales, it is confined to key workers, hospital patients and care home residents.
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Re: Covid-19
Mixed verdict in NHS contact-tracing app trial
t is 10 days since all Isle of Wight residents were invited to test the NHS app at the heart of the government's test, track and trace strategy. So how's it going?
Mixed would probably be a fair verdict, though we may have a clearer idea following a Commons statement by the Health Secretary Matt Hancock this afternoon.
The big concern was how many people would download it. Epidemiologists suggest that for the UK as a whole, about 60% of the population needs to install and use the software for it to live up to its full potential.
So when Downing Street says there have been roughly 60,000 downloads, that's not a bad result. The island's population is 140,000, and its inhabitants are slightly older and less likely to own a smartphone than the UK average.
But one cautionary note - that 60,000 may include some who downloaded it twice or are from the mainland.
t is 10 days since all Isle of Wight residents were invited to test the NHS app at the heart of the government's test, track and trace strategy. So how's it going?
Mixed would probably be a fair verdict, though we may have a clearer idea following a Commons statement by the Health Secretary Matt Hancock this afternoon.
The big concern was how many people would download it. Epidemiologists suggest that for the UK as a whole, about 60% of the population needs to install and use the software for it to live up to its full potential.
So when Downing Street says there have been roughly 60,000 downloads, that's not a bad result. The island's population is 140,000, and its inhabitants are slightly older and less likely to own a smartphone than the UK average.
But one cautionary note - that 60,000 may include some who downloaded it twice or are from the mainland.
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Re: Covid-19
21,000 contact-tracers recruited in England
Matt Hancock says 21,000 people have been recruited to conduct contact-tracing in England, including 7,500 healthcare workers.
The health secretary had originally set a target to recruit 18,000 tracers by the middle of this month.
The team will be vital to the UK's scheme to track down people who have been in contact with those showing symptoms.
Matt Hancock says 21,000 people have been recruited to conduct contact-tracing in England, including 7,500 healthcare workers.
The health secretary had originally set a target to recruit 18,000 tracers by the middle of this month.
The team will be vital to the UK's scheme to track down people who have been in contact with those showing symptoms.
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Re: Covid-19
Hancock: UK now a global champion in testing
Giving more details about the expansion of testing, Mr Hancock said the UK had scaled up its diagnostic testing capacity over the past six weeks at "breathtaking" speed and was now a "global champion".
He encouraged all those aged over five with symptoms - a new persistent cough, a high temperature or the loss of smell or taste - to register for a test now.
The move would mean the virus had "fewer places to hide", he said.
Hospital patients, care home residents, NHS workers and care staff would continue to be prioritised, he added.
The government has been criticised for stopping community testing in the middle of March and although it hit its target of 100,000 tests by the end of April, that figure has regularly been missed since.
Giving more details about the expansion of testing, Mr Hancock said the UK had scaled up its diagnostic testing capacity over the past six weeks at "breathtaking" speed and was now a "global champion".
He encouraged all those aged over five with symptoms - a new persistent cough, a high temperature or the loss of smell or taste - to register for a test now.
The move would mean the virus had "fewer places to hide", he said.
Hospital patients, care home residents, NHS workers and care staff would continue to be prioritised, he added.
The government has been criticised for stopping community testing in the middle of March and although it hit its target of 100,000 tests by the end of April, that figure has regularly been missed since.
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Re: Covid-19
UK's track and trace system faces monumental challenge
The expansion of the testing programme may grab the headlines.
It is a significant milestone – in less than two months the UK has gone from only being able to test hospital patients and health and care staff to offering it more or less population-wide.
But it should not mask the difficulties that remain getting the test, track and trace system up-and-running.
This will be essential to contain local outbreaks as we ease ourselves out of lockdown.
Tests are still taking too long to turn around for some – significant numbers are thought to be waiting several days – while the piloting of the tracking app on the Isle of Wight is not yet finished.
One particular concern is that the app does not yet let users know if the person they have had contact with ends up testing positive. Instead, it has only let them know if the contact has developed symptoms.
That is a major problem. It means people have been left in limbo and incorporating that feature into the app will be important.
Progress is being made, but getting a workable and efficient system in place soon is still a monumental challenge.
The expansion of the testing programme may grab the headlines.
It is a significant milestone – in less than two months the UK has gone from only being able to test hospital patients and health and care staff to offering it more or less population-wide.
But it should not mask the difficulties that remain getting the test, track and trace system up-and-running.
This will be essential to contain local outbreaks as we ease ourselves out of lockdown.
Tests are still taking too long to turn around for some – significant numbers are thought to be waiting several days – while the piloting of the tracking app on the Isle of Wight is not yet finished.
One particular concern is that the app does not yet let users know if the person they have had contact with ends up testing positive. Instead, it has only let them know if the contact has developed symptoms.
That is a major problem. It means people have been left in limbo and incorporating that feature into the app will be important.
Progress is being made, but getting a workable and efficient system in place soon is still a monumental challenge.
Re: Covid-19
just out of interest, when you say one of the last countries to add taste and smell, when do you think or know it was in regard to other countries, is there a league table for this kind of information in regard to who did what when? genuine question as I don't knowCombatClaret wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 1:54 pmJoking aside once again we're one of the last countries to add the taste and smell advise. We just stuck to the very first data that came early out of China in terms of fever or cough.
Epidemiologist, head of the King College program who has a wealth of data with 2.3million users say's study shows loss of taste & smell is the best single predictor symptom.
Speculated other symptoms had not been add because there simply weren't enough tests and would appear even more overwhelmed if they expanded the criteria for testing. Which resulted in people with the virus not isolating adding even more cases & deaths to the population.
Also hesitant to use any data outside of the NHS, PHE bubble.
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Re: Covid-19
Don't know about other countries but its been in the public domain for a couple of months that those symptoms exist.
Questions over Hancock's testing plans
Shadow health secretary Jonathan Ashworth has welcomed Matt Hancock’s announcement about the expansion of testing in the UK, but asked why there still isn’t routine testing for all care home residents and staff.
Speaking in the House of Commons, he also asked why there had been “a time lag” in the government updating its guidance on virus symptoms, saying experts were making this warning about the loss of smell “eight weeks ago”.
He pressed the government on the time taken for results to be received showing whether someone had Covid-19 or not.
He added that he had long argued that the way out of lockdown was having a tracing strategy in place, but said it depended on a quick turnaround in testing results.
The SNP’s health spokeswoman Philippa Whitford said Mr Hancock took pride in ramping up testing capacity but suggested thousands were being included even though they had been simply mailed to applicants and were “just in the post”.
Mr Hancock denied that tests were being “double counted” in order to boost the daily numbers and enable the government to meet its new target of 200,000 tests by the end of the month.
Questions over Hancock's testing plans
Shadow health secretary Jonathan Ashworth has welcomed Matt Hancock’s announcement about the expansion of testing in the UK, but asked why there still isn’t routine testing for all care home residents and staff.
Speaking in the House of Commons, he also asked why there had been “a time lag” in the government updating its guidance on virus symptoms, saying experts were making this warning about the loss of smell “eight weeks ago”.
He pressed the government on the time taken for results to be received showing whether someone had Covid-19 or not.
He added that he had long argued that the way out of lockdown was having a tracing strategy in place, but said it depended on a quick turnaround in testing results.
The SNP’s health spokeswoman Philippa Whitford said Mr Hancock took pride in ramping up testing capacity but suggested thousands were being included even though they had been simply mailed to applicants and were “just in the post”.
Mr Hancock denied that tests were being “double counted” in order to boost the daily numbers and enable the government to meet its new target of 200,000 tests by the end of the month.
Re: Covid-19
UK's track and trace system faces monumental challenge
This has always been the issue from the beginning and why many Asian countries were so far ahead of western countries, they went through SARS and put these things in place a long time ago with clear processes of how to do the investigative work long before any app was available. What I don't understand from the lessons learned during SARS is that the work and knowledge gained at that time just doesn't seem to have been part of any western country's (let's say UK & US) pandemic planning process. I have not read the report from the 2016 but the 2011 UK Pandemic Preparedness Strategy report was based on the following with no mention of SARS that I could see:
Lessons from the H1N1 (2009) influenza pandemic............................................................. 13
Planning assumptions for a future influenza pandemic
While 2011 and 2016 (from what I have read) discuss the issue of lack of ventilators and the likelihood for NHS to be overwhelmed, I could find nothing on testing/tracing/isolation
EDIT:
Well this is new to me:
Britain invented a contact-tracing app nine years ago, it has emerged as the Cambridge professor who built it has said the Government “missed an opportunity” to develop the life-saving technology.
Jon Crowcroft, from Cambridge University’s Computer Laboratory, said the UK could have been “10 years ahead of the curve rather than three months behind it” if it had capitalised on the FluPhone app, which was an early prototype of the contact-tracing technology the NHS is now scrambling build to curb coronavirus infections after lockdown.
However, his team’s successful efforts building the app fell by the wayside in 2011 as funding ran dry. Senior health ministers at the time have told The Telegraph that news of the technology never reached their desks - even as they drew up plans for a flu pandemic....
This has always been the issue from the beginning and why many Asian countries were so far ahead of western countries, they went through SARS and put these things in place a long time ago with clear processes of how to do the investigative work long before any app was available. What I don't understand from the lessons learned during SARS is that the work and knowledge gained at that time just doesn't seem to have been part of any western country's (let's say UK & US) pandemic planning process. I have not read the report from the 2016 but the 2011 UK Pandemic Preparedness Strategy report was based on the following with no mention of SARS that I could see:
Lessons from the H1N1 (2009) influenza pandemic............................................................. 13
Planning assumptions for a future influenza pandemic
While 2011 and 2016 (from what I have read) discuss the issue of lack of ventilators and the likelihood for NHS to be overwhelmed, I could find nothing on testing/tracing/isolation
EDIT:
Well this is new to me:
Britain invented a contact-tracing app nine years ago, it has emerged as the Cambridge professor who built it has said the Government “missed an opportunity” to develop the life-saving technology.
Jon Crowcroft, from Cambridge University’s Computer Laboratory, said the UK could have been “10 years ahead of the curve rather than three months behind it” if it had capitalised on the FluPhone app, which was an early prototype of the contact-tracing technology the NHS is now scrambling build to curb coronavirus infections after lockdown.
However, his team’s successful efforts building the app fell by the wayside in 2011 as funding ran dry. Senior health ministers at the time have told The Telegraph that news of the technology never reached their desks - even as they drew up plans for a flu pandemic....
Last edited by KateR on Mon May 18, 2020 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Covid-19
That was my understand also but curious as to why now this has been raised and were the UK that late in mentioning it or discussing it, I don't know but certainly not new at this time as it was in the new March I believe
Re: Covid-19
Germany seems to have done OK, no idea whether that was a capability they developed themselves or following the lead of countries impacted by SARs though.KateR wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 4:40 pmUK's track and trace system faces monumental challenge
This has always been the issue from the beginning and why many Asian countries were so far ahead of western countries, they went through SARS and put these things in place a long time ago with clear processes of how to do the investigative work long before any app was available. What I don't understand from the lessons learned during SARS is that the work and knowledge gained at that time just doesn't seem to have been part of any western country's (let's say UK & US) pandemic planning process. I have not read the report from the 2016 but the 2011 UK Pandemic Preparedness Strategy report was based on the following with no mention of SARS that I could see:
Lessons from the H1N1 (2009) influenza pandemic............................................................. 13
Planning assumptions for a future influenza pandemic
While 2011 and 2016 (from what I have read) discuss the issue of lack of ventilators and the likelihood for NHS to be overwhelmed, I could find nothing on testing/tracing/isolation
I'm also sure I read somewhere that Singapore based quite a bit of it's planning on the scenarios and results that the UK got from its planning in 2011 (although I've no idea where so maybe I just imagined that).
Re: Covid-19
The only thing I do know around Germany and the medical is that my best friend's daughter is in biomedical as something to do with Clinical Research and she moved from Cambridge to Germany around two years ago, I did ask her why and she said something around the research R&D being better set up in Germany and they were Europe's leader in the field. I never questioned more, it helped that her mother was German but had married and lived in the UK for over 30 years so language was not a barrier. Singapore were the poster child for this activity but then again very small location with high density so much easier to manage, the attached provides some context to the whole process.aggi wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 4:52 pmGermany seems to have done OK, no idea whether that was a capability they developed themselves or following the lead of countries impacted by SARs though.
I'm also sure I read somewhere that Singapore based quite a bit of it's planning on the scenarios and results that the UK got from its planning in 2011 (although I've no idea where so maybe I just imagined that).
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus ... ion-137214
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Re: Covid-19
The first hints that a vaccine can train people's immune system to fight coronavirus have been reported by a company in the US.
Moderna said neutralising antibodies were found in the first eight people who took part in their safety trials.
It also said the immune response was similar to people infected with the actual virus.
The vaccine trials, run by the US government's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, showed the vaccine led to the production of antibodies which can neutralise the coronavirus.
However, testing for these neutralising antibodies has only taken place on the first eight, out of 45, people on the trial.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52677203
Moderna said neutralising antibodies were found in the first eight people who took part in their safety trials.
It also said the immune response was similar to people infected with the actual virus.
The vaccine trials, run by the US government's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, showed the vaccine led to the production of antibodies which can neutralise the coronavirus.
However, testing for these neutralising antibodies has only taken place on the first eight, out of 45, people on the trial.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52677203
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Re: Covid-19
The parable of Dominic Raab
He didn't get there by himself, he doesn't belong there, he doesn't know what to do while he's there, he's elevated beyond his capacity - and you wonder what assholes put him there.
He didn't get there by himself, he doesn't belong there, he doesn't know what to do while he's there, he's elevated beyond his capacity - and you wonder what assholes put him there.
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Re: Covid-19
There's no league table but you can find concrete details If you look for them, harder to as Google only offers you English language sites. But for example:KateR wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 4:19 pmjust out of interest, when you say one of the last countries to add taste and smell, when do you think or know it was in regard to other countries, is there a league table for this kind of information in regard to who did what when? genuine question as I don't know
France was telling people with loss of taste and smell but no other symptoms to sell isolat some time in early/mid March for example. Two months ago.
It was added to WHO's official symptoms list a fortnight ago but have been speculating on it for a while and began trials and study in March also. Due to this it was discussed by SAGE on March 24th but they chose not to update UK advise.
"The announcement that the CMOs have now recognised smell and taste disturbances is extremely welcome, albeit much later than other European counterparts" - Prof Carl Philpott, Professor of Rhinology & Olfactology, UEA
I'm sure he's been keeping up with it more closely that we have.
Re: Covid-19
Shady Government.
Bumbling Britain.
We'll be lucky to survive!
Bumbling Britain.
We'll be lucky to survive!
Re: Covid-19
CombatClaret wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 6:41 pmThere's no league table but you can find concrete details If you look for them, harder to as Google only offers you English language sites. But for example:
France was telling people with loss of taste and smell but no other symptoms to sell isolat some time in early/mid March for example. Two months ago.
It was added to WHO's official symptoms list a fortnight ago but have been speculating on it for a while and began trials and study in March also. Due to this it was discussed by SAGE on March 24th but they chose not to update UK advise.
"The announcement that the CMOs have now recognised smell and taste disturbances is extremely welcome, albeit much later than other European counterparts" - Prof Carl Philpott, Professor of Rhinology & Olfactology, UEA
I'm sure he's been keeping up with it more closely that we have.
Thank you, I believed this was common knowledge at around the time the UK went lockdown mode, virtually every network in the US ran with this including CNN/NBC and all the alphabet soups, plus local Houston news. The data as outlined then, as that it came from the UK who had had issued a warning (not sure who issued the warning), we mentioned it to our son in the UK at the time and he said it was on Sky news, so was well known. Obviously confusing?
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Re: Covid-19
A lot of the media picked up on a statement made by ENTUK (professional membership body representing Ear, Nose and Throat surgerons/specialists) made mid/late March, the trouble was it and many more specialist's advice/studies was not followed through and put into official advise by the UK so it just became treated as anecdote/rumor.KateR wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 6:58 pmThank you, I believed this was common knowledge at around the time the UK went lockdown mode, virtually every network in the US ran with this including CNN/NBC and all the alphabet soups, plus local Houston news. The data as outlined then, as that it came from the UK who had had issued a warning (not sure who issued the warning), we mentioned it to our son in the UK at the time and he said it was on Sky news, so was well known. Obviously confusing?
This user liked this post: KateR
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Re: Covid-19
Hi Combat, did you hear Jonathan Van Tam's explanation, in today's briefing, why "loss of taste and smell" or "anosmia" wasn't critical in the identification of people infected with covid-19? What did you make of what JVT said?CombatClaret wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 6:41 pmThere's no league table but you can find concrete details If you look for them, harder to as Google only offers you English language sites. But for example:
France was telling people with loss of taste and smell but no other symptoms to sell isolat some time in early/mid March for example. Two months ago.
It was added to WHO's official symptoms list a fortnight ago but have been speculating on it for a while and began trials and study in March also. Due to this it was discussed by SAGE on March 24th but they chose not to update UK advise.
"The announcement that the CMOs have now recognised smell and taste disturbances is extremely welcome, albeit much later than other European counterparts" - Prof Carl Philpott, Professor of Rhinology & Olfactology, UEA
I'm sure he's been keeping up with it more closely that we have.
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Re: Covid-19
Missed todays briefing but did he say they had planned to study it in more detail on the 30th Feb?
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Re: Covid-19
Jonathan Van Tam claimed quarantine had been in place for travellers coming into the UK from hotspots since 30th February!!
Re: Covid-19
It's not a claim, if its the truth. I certainly remember some of the examples he gave.Steve-Harpers-perm wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 8:45 pmJonathan Van Tam claimed quarantine had been in place for travellers coming into the UK from hotspots since 30th February!!
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Re: Covid-19
Just a quick note about loss of taste and smell. I have a reduced immune system and as a result tend to get a lot of viral infections. Almost every time, I get some loss of taste so this is a symptom of many infections apart from Covid 19.
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Re: Covid-19
I hope you're joking
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Re: Covid-19
TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:46 pmNo, it's a leap year. There was an extra day in February.
I think you need to learn the rhyme
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Re: Covid-19
Just watched it now.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 8:39 pmHi Combat, did you hear Jonathan Van Tam's explanation, in today's briefing, why "loss of taste and smell" or "anosmia" wasn't critical in the identification of people infected with covid-19? What did you make of what JVT said?
Firstly he said adding it to the symptoms list wouldn't change anything they were able to do...
So because of the government's lack of ability to do anything due to their own preparedness; they decided not to give quite fundamental information to the public about whether they might be infected or not? This seems like criminal negligence.
He then went on to question the use of the symptom as in indicator of infection. Suggesting that it often comes after cough/fever which are "most prominent" and also questioning how often does anosmia occur on its own without these other two symptoms?
Note he didn't actually answer these questions, just said they were questions.
According to the Kings College Study which is by far the largest in the world, both these argument's don't hold much water, cough or fever is not the most common symptom in those who were found to test positive.
30% of people in the study who went on to test positive never had a fever or cough, and that's probably a very large underestimate of the true percentage because the criteria for testing was weighted very heavily toward those two symptoms.
So all in all I though JVT in his lovely calm voice did an excellent job of trying to distract from the government's policy of dither, delay and goalpost moving.
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Re: Covid-19
Oh dear!TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:46 pmNo, it's a leap year. There was an extra day in February.
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Re: Covid-19
2020 is a leap year. It always is in a World Cup year. What's wrong with you?
Re: Covid-19
The ridicule comes because normally there are 28 days in Feb and 29 on a leap year, so there is no 30th Feb everTheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:02 pm2020 is a leap year. It always is in a World Cup year. What's wrong with you?
Re: Covid-19
I concur. My immunotherapy also causes this
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