Covid-19

[CombatClaret]

Didn’t every paper run it at the same time?

Genuine question - what would the Tory press have against Ferguson?

Nope, Telegraph, Daily Mail, Metro and the Sun ran the Ferguson story as front page slash.

The Times, Guardian, Independent, The I, FT & Mirror and other all ran other headlines.

I don't think the Tory press had anything specific against Ferguson, but it proved a huge distraction from the real story of UK taking the death toll lead that day.
If you were conspiratorial his modeling played a part in the lockdown which many rich Tory donors have been trying to get us out of asap and back to enriching themselves using our labour. But I think the distraction element was the main one, classic affair story ready to go when No10 needed a whopper of a 'look over there'.

[TVC15]

Some people on this thread are trying to make bigger tits of themselves than Cummings

[tiger76]

We don't know whether he came into contact with his folks or not. Doesn't really matter. They set the rules and they should lead. Its called leadership and its been lacking. If my boss tells me not to do something and he goes and does it he's hardly going to gain much respect. I don't give two hoots about what the colour of the party in power are. We've been consistantly lied to, leadership has been woefully inept. Chuff me, I just want our leaders to get it right and give folk some respect, equality, openess and honesty. Its painful to watch how they're winging it. Jeez.

This!

And talking of leadership where is our part-time PM hiding,in a fridge no doubt.

When you compare our bunch to some world leaders Jacinda Ardern,Angela Merkel and Justin Trudeau to name but 3 it's embarrassing.

There's been no direction and urgency from day 1,slow with PPE,slow with testing,slow to note the potential care home catastrophe and that's just off the top of my head,is it any wonder the public is losing trust in their handling of this crisis.

And even when mistakes happen,and they will happen,there's never an acknowledgement or apology,Macron across the channel at least admitted to his failings,and made good the French shortcomings in quick order,this lot are all talk and no action.

No wonder we've got one of the highest death totals in the world.

[Grumps]

Apparently if you have a differing opinion you're a tit now....... Lovely people on here at times.

Good night everybody, fight fair.

[TVC15]

Haha

[CombatClaret]

Did Grumps achieve parody status today?

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

The odd thing is surely even this bunch of dimwit cabinet MP’s must have suspected there would be more to come from this story. It makes the defence of him even more baffling.

[TVC15]

It’s even better the way it’s happened.
Backed by his boss and all the other cronies.
Then more details of what he got up to slowly emerges proving he not only broke the law but he also clearly kept information back from BJ etc.

The longer it drags on the better - he’ll be sacked eventually but by the end of this **** storm he’ll have taken the blame for The Holocaust, The Twin Towers and England losing to Germany at Italia 90.

[jackmiggins]

Eh? He stayed with his wife and son in a house in Durham.

Don’t think you understand English, so hope you make progress in the future. Thghindoog

[keith1879]

I assume you know the house well?
Or maybe not but you thought you would spout off anyway.

No....and neither was I spouting off. I was relying on the information in this article published in a newspaper published in the North East of England. https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/no ... g-18299781

[keith1879]

Definitely a completely separate house.

I have no doubt that it was a separate house from his sister (I think it was his sister who was the potential child-carer). Can you provide any evidence that it was a separate house from his parents?

[Zlatan]

We don't know whether he came into contact with his folks or not. Doesn't really matter. They set the rules and they should lead. Its called leadership and its been lacking. If my boss tells me not to do something and he goes and does it he's hardly going to gain much respect. I don't give two hoots about what the colour of the party in power are. We've been consistantly lied to, leadership has been woefully inept. Chuff me, I just want our leaders to get it right and give folk some respect, equality, openess and honesty. Its painful to watch how they're winging it. Jeez.

Sums up how I feel about this.

The majority of the population are obeying the powers that be and I know of many families where they had had to self isolate with small children (me included) and not once did we or anyone else consider driving for 6 hours to visit family for help. If both parents became incapacitated, that’s when you make alternative arrangements for the child - not break the rules because it suits. This attitude is why there are people not caring about any of this and visiting the beach; all going shopping together (other half witnessed family trips to Tesco and Aldi); driving cross country to see family may not seem awful to some, but it is an increased risk - not no risk like some have stated.

Bloke should be hung out for this but I suspect he won’t. Even if he is, he’ll be back in the fold before long - he’s too essential for the “brains” behind Bo Jo

[jackmiggins]

Did Grumps achieve parody status today?

Achieved it a couple of weeks ago. Try to break it to him/her gently.

[tiger76]

A more cheerful post now.

Author Michael Rosen out of intensive care, wife says https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-52783472

I must confess i didn't even know he was in intensive care,good news that he's hopefully on the road to recovery.

[NewClaret]

I have no doubt that it was a separate house from his sister (I think it was his sister who was the potential child-carer). Can you provide any evidence that it was a separate house from his parents?

If you go to dailymail website there’s an arial picture of the two houses.

[Jakubclaret]

Sums up how I feel about this.

The majority of the population are obeying the powers that be and I know of many families where they had had to self isolate with small children (me included) and not once did we or anyone else consider driving for 6 hours to visit family for help. If both parents became incapacitated, that’s when you make alternative arrangements for the child - not break the rules because it suits. This attitude is why there are people not caring about any of this and visiting the beach; all going shopping together (other half witnessed family trips to Tesco and Aldi); driving cross country to see family may not seem awful to some, but it is an increased risk - not no risk like some have stated.

Bloke should be hung out for this but I suspect he won’t. Even if he is, he’ll be back in the fold before long - he’s too essential for the “brains” behind Bo Jo

I wouldn't say the majority of the population are or have been obeying orders, maybe in the first month you'd have a strong case for stating that, as times progressed any sort of compliance as diminished day by day, it's got to the stage now where you could actually be forgiven for not knowing that a lockdown ever existed with peoples behaviour & demeanour, regarding any culpability if he becomes too much of a liability that's when you likely to see any noticeable action taken.

[jackmiggins]

Well, why have we and all our neighbours and town bothered to comply? Oh yes, we give a damn!

[keith1879]

If you go to dailymail website there’s an arial picture of the two houses.

That's fair - it's a separate building in the same grounds so the contact between households could have been minimal to zero.

I see that the Daily Mail are being less than supportive....if their support has gone then it is surely only a matter of time now.

[Zlatan]

I wouldn't say the majority of the population are or have been obeying orders, maybe in the first month you'd have a strong case for stating that, as times progressed any sort of compliance as diminished day by day, it's got to the stage now where you could actually be forgiven for not knowing that a lockdown ever existed with peoples behaviour & demeanour, regarding any culpability if he becomes too much of a liability that's when you likely to see any noticeable action taken.

Thanks for that, it sums up the importance of why those in leadership should be doing all they can to lead by example, but we’ve had enough of them flouting their own rules and guidance that some of the population just don’t care now, and in your words “you could actually be forgiven for not knowing that a lockdown ever existed“

[martin_p]

I wouldn't say the majority of the population are or have been obeying orders, maybe in the first month you'd have a strong case for stating that, as times progressed any sort of compliance as diminished day by day, it's got to the stage now where you could actually be forgiven for not knowing that a lockdown ever existed with peoples behaviour & demeanour, regarding any culpability if he becomes too much of a liability that's when you likely to see any noticeable action taken.

It’s that first month we’re talking about here.

[dsr]

How the heck is travelling from London to Durham staying in one place,they just keep digging don't they.

Actually Cummings wasn't the only Tory to travel and get away with it. There was an MP who got all sorts of stick because when lockdown started, he was in London while his wife and children were in his second home. He got a lot of stick for going to be with his family after lockdown had started. If only these people would realise that morally, leaving lockdown for the benefit of family and leaving lockdown for the benefit of second homes and leaving family to be with your mistress are all equivalent?

[martin_p]

If you go to dailymail website there’s an arial picture of the two houses.

Isn’t the house thing a bit of a red herring. He broke lockdown and took a known COVID infected person with him driving over 200 miles. Doesn’t really matter what house he stayed in when he got there.

As I’ve said before, if he was worried about someone caring for his child he should have invited one of his family to drive to London rather than travel north with someone who should have been isolating.

[NewClaret]

That's fair - it's a separate building in the same grounds so the contact between households could have been minimal to zero.

I see that the Daily Mail are being less than supportive....if their support has gone then it is surely only a matter of time now.

They’re never supportive Keith. I don’t know why everyone assumes the Mail is so pro-Tory. They complain at everything - bad news sells.

[martin_p]

Actually Cummings wasn't the only Tory to travel and get away with it. There was an MP who got all sorts of stick because when lockdown started, he was in London while his wife and children were in his second home. He got a lot of stick for going to be with his family after lockdown had started. If only these people would realise that morally, leaving lockdown for the benefit of family and leaving lockdown for the benefit of second homes and leaving family to be with your mistress are all equivalent?

Who left family to be with his mistress?

[dsr]

How could they ‘assist’ with childcare from a different building? Think before posting!

Let's use a bit of imagination for this one. Suppose you are in a building with a small child, and you become ill. You have close relatives in the next building. You would like them to assist with childcare.

Clue - both parties have a phone of some sort. You could ring next door, say "please can you assist with childcare", and they would come round and assist/ Don't you think that could work?

[NewClaret]

Isn’t the house thing a bit of a red herring. He broke lockdown and took a known COVID infected person with him driving over 200 miles. Doesn’t really matter what house he stayed in when he got there.

As I’ve said before, if he was worried about someone caring for his child he should have invited one of his family to drive to London rather than travel north with someone who should have been isolating.

But he probably didn’t have a spare house for them to stay in London. But they had a spare house in Durham, so it made sense for him to go there if you wanted to ensure your child had access to care if you both fell ill.

[dsr]

Who left family to be with his mistress?

Lockdown, not family. It was a misprint. Sorry you were confused.

[martin_p]

Let's use a bit of imagination for this one. Suppose you are in a building with a small child, and you become ill. You have close relatives in the next building. You would like them to assist with childcare.

Clue - both parties have a phone of some sort. You could ring next door, say "please can you assist with childcare", and they would come round and assist/ Don't you think that could work?

Yep, but the phone works between London and the north east as well.

[ksrclaret]

Let's use a bit of imagination for this one. Suppose you are in a building with a small child, and you become ill. You have close relatives in the next building. You would like them to assist with childcare.

Clue - both parties have a phone of some sort. You could ring next door, say "please can you assist with childcare", and they would come round and assist/ Don't you think that could work?

I know you like a good red herring, but trying to put a spin on whether he was in his parent's house or next door to his parent's house is the least of their concerns at the moment.

[martin_p]

Lockdown, not family. It was a misprint. Sorry you were confused.

If you’re referring to the professor who was visited by his girlfriend it was a far less serious breach of lockdown that driving over 200 miles with an infected person. He’d already had the virus and so assumed immunity so there was no real danger to him, his girlfriend or anyone else. But lockdown was broken and his position was untenable. Cummings should be treated the same.

[dsr]

Yep, but the phone works between London and the north east as well.

Yes, that's true. Though you could argue that the instant availability of childcare doesn't work from 260 miles away.

We know what happened. Cummings took his child to Durham because he was afraid of catching coronavirus and leaving his child in danger. He did catch coronavirus and because of his earlier action, his child wasn't in danger.

Obviously the concensus is that what he should have done was stay in London with his wife and child until they both became sick, and then he could have arranged for someone else to make the trip with the boy. He shouldn't have made his arrangements until he was desperate. The result would have been the same but he would have been able to hold his hand up and say "I did not take the action that was best for my son" and been exonerated.

The second visit - is the problem that he went back to his family for the weekend, or is it that he didn't tell anyone he was going back? I presume that his family stayed in Durham while he went back to London to work. Is it the rule that if you work away during the week, you aren't allowed to go home for the weekend? The report I saw was a bit short on detail - it just said that he was in London for the week and that he was in Durham with his family at the weekend, but didn't say where his family was during the week,

[martin_p]

Yes, that's true. Though you could argue that the instant availability of childcare doesn't work from 260 miles away.

We know what happened. Cummings took his child to Durham because he was afraid of catching coronavirus and leaving his child in danger. He did catch coronavirus and because of his earlier action, his child wasn't in danger.

Obviously the concensus is that what he should have done was stay in London with his wife and child until they both became sick, and then he could have arranged for someone else to make the trip with the boy. He shouldn't have made his arrangements until he was desperate. The result would have been the same but he would have been able to hold his hand up and say "I did not take the action that was best for my son" and been exonerated.

The second visit - is the problem that he went back to his family for the weekend, or is it that he didn't tell anyone he was going back? I presume that his family stayed in Durham while he went back to London to work. Is it the rule that if you work away during the week, you aren't allowed to go home for the weekend? The report I saw was a bit short on detail - it just said that he was in London for the week and that he was in Durham with his family at the weekend, but didn't say where his family was during the week,

I haven’t had the virus but from what I’ve read you don’t go from starting with symptoms to needing instant childcare in seconds. Plenty of time for someone to pick the child up.

[joey13]

Yes, that's true. Though you could argue that the instant availability of childcare doesn't work from 260 miles away.

We know what happened. Cummings took his child to Durham because he was afraid of catching coronavirus and leaving his child in danger. He did catch coronavirus and because of his earlier action, his child wasn't in danger.

Obviously the concensus is that what he should have done was stay in London with his wife and child until they both became sick, and then he could have arranged for someone else to make the trip with the boy. He shouldn't have made his arrangements until he was desperate. The result would have been the same but he would have been able to hold his hand up and say "I did not take the action that was best for my son" and been exonerated.

The second visit - is the problem that he went back to his family for the weekend, or is it that he didn't tell anyone he was going back? I presume that his family stayed in Durham while he went back to London to work. Is it the rule that if you work away during the week, you aren't allowed to go home for the weekend? The report I saw was a bit short on detail - it just said that he was in London for the week and that he was in Durham with his family at the weekend, but didn't say where his family was during the week,

I thought you said he had the virus ?

[Devils_Advocate]

But he probably didn’t have a spare house for them to stay in London. But they had a spare house in Durham, so it made sense for him to go there if you wanted to ensure your child had access to care if you both fell ill.

They could have just stayed at their house in London. They also had family in London. Also she is the daughter of a millionaire aristocrat and has an endless network of friends and acquaintances to support. Plus Cummings is best mates with the prime minister so about as connected as you can be.

Are you telling me they could have not got all the support they wanted staying in London and had both been rushed to hospital do you think there was any risk their child would not have loads of support and places to go with family and friends in London.

Cummings had to isolate and it was his mothers birthday party so he chose to go to Durham for his own benefit not because their was a serious risk to life of his child.

Watch out for tomorrow when the second story is gonna break and lets see how you all this spin the next part.

[Zlatan]

The problem I see with all this Cummings malarkey is that we know the government will have spent many hours of effort to prepare the spin and justification for his actions when they should have been running the country’s response to the whole crisis - any distraction is going to be damaging and resulting in loss of life as a consequence.

His head needs to roll.

[ksrclaret]

Yes, that's true. Though you could argue that the instant availability of childcare doesn't work from 260 miles away.

We know what happened. Cummings took his child to Durham because he was afraid of catching coronavirus and leaving his child in danger. He did catch coronavirus and because of his earlier action, his child wasn't in danger.

Obviously the concensus is that what he should have done was stay in London with his wife and child until they both became sick, and then he could have arranged for someone else to make the trip with the boy. He shouldn't have made his arrangements until he was desperate. The result would have been the same but he would have been able to hold his hand up and say "I did not take the action that was best for my son" and been exonerated.

The second visit - is the problem that he went back to his family for the weekend, or is it that he didn't tell anyone he was going back? I presume that his family stayed in Durham while he went back to London to work. Is it the rule that if you work away during the week, you aren't allowed to go home for the weekend? The report I saw was a bit short on detail - it just said that he was in London for the week and that he was in Durham with his family at the weekend, but didn't say where his family was during the week,

That's not what happened at all. He took his child to Durham when his wife had the virus. Defend him if you so wish, but don't make things up.

[TVC15]

I haven’t had the virus but from what I’ve read you don’t go from starting with symptoms to needing instant childcare in seconds. Plenty of time for someone to pick the child up.

That’s correct.
And what about his wife ?
Did they think they were both going to get ill at the same time and to the same degree ?
Everybody else in these circumstances had to self isolate the family.
Just a matter of time before he is sacked or resigns but fine by me if he wants to drag his party through the mud for a few more days / weeks

[Zlatan]

D6A45924-CCDD-4574-9B96-2FF9AD24453C.jpeg (118.23 KiB) Viewed 2457 times

[Claretincraven]

Lockdown, not family. It was a misprint. Sorry you were confused.

Lockdown
Family

Misprint?

[NottsClaret]

Give up on this one, dsr.

[dsr]

They could have just stayed at their house in London. They also had family in London. Also she is the daughter of a millionaire aristocrat and has an endless network of friends and acquaintances to support. Plus Cummings is best mates with the prime minister so about as connected as you can be.

Are you telling me they could have not got all the support they wanted staying in London and had both been rushed to hospital do you think there was any risk their child would not have loads of support and places to go with family and friends in London.

Cummings had to isolate and it was his mothers birthday party so he chose to go to Durham for his own benefit not because their was a serious risk to life of his child.

Watch out for tomorrow when the second story is gonna break and lets see how you all this spin the next part.

Even daughters of millionaire aristocrats can be fussy about who they leave their children with. I know I wouldn't have been on the list to look after my 4 year old nephew (even if I had been willing to throw up my job instantly) when my sister in law had several better qualified relatives a couple of hundred miles away.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Wonder whose name has been picked out of the jar to front the media tomorrow morning. Obviously won’t be Johnson and Gove did last Sunday. Rishi Sunak might draw the short straw as he’s gone down well with the public.

[BurningBeard]

He's bang to rights. Time to go!

[dsr]

Lockdown
Family

Misprint?

???

[TVC15]

He's bang to rights. Time to go!

Who ?
dsr or Cummings ?

[Devils_Advocate]

Even daughters of millionaire aristocrats can be fussy about who they leave their children with. I know I wouldn't have been on the list to look after my 4 year old nephew (even if I had been willing to throw up my job instantly) when my sister in law had several better qualified relatives a couple of hundred miles away.

We're in the middle of a health crisis and was in lockdown to protect lives so unfortunately people couldn't pick and choose exactly who they wanted to look after their children.

The point is they could have stayed put to minimise the spread of the virus and should the unthinkable happen (ie both end up in hospital) however unlikely then they still would have had family and a whole range of people they know to step in and support. This in itself is much more than the rest of the country have.

Being choosy about who helps them out is not a justified reason to travel the length of the country

[dsr]

That’s correct.
And what about his wife ?
Did they think they were both going to get ill at the same time and to the same degree ?
Everybody else in these circumstances had to self isolate the family.
Just a matter of time before he is sacked or resigns but fine by me if he wants to drag his party through the mud for a few more days / weeks

She was already ill. Yes, they both thought they were going to become ill. Yes, they were right.

[BurningBeard]

Wonder whose name has been picked out of the jar to front the media tomorrow morning. Obviously won’t be Johnson and Gove did last Sunday. Rishi Sunak might draw the short straw as he’s gone down well with the public.

Shapp pulling double duty. He's on Sophy Ridge. They've even posted the questions on Twitter in advance

[Devils_Advocate]

She was already ill. Yes, they both thought they were going to become ill. Yes, they were right.

And the kid stayed with them through the illness so why couldn't all three of them stayed in London?

[CrosspoolClarets]

Let’s all be honest about what this is - the biggest enemy of many people, and a chance for them to finish him off. The media and other parties are all over it.

My view is that this is a 16 hour a day workaholic who wouldn’t have taken 2 weeks off unless he was very ill indeed. His boss nearly died during this time too. That his wife stayed well (ish) and could look after the kid was luck. They must have been terrified to have felt the need to make that drive and ask family to help out. They must also have known the optics, even if their judgement was a bit impaired by being ill.

It just all seems a bit inhuman to take possibly the lowest point of someone’s life, health-wise, and use it as a reason to sack him when many of us in similar unfortunate circumstances would have done the same,