Drive by shooting

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Rileybobs
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Rileybobs » Sun May 24, 2020 11:06 am

ClaretFelix wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:58 am
Whilst acknowledging that prisons have a part to play in the rehabilitation of offenders, and assisting with their integration back into society on their release, the idea of them is surely to punish them for crimes they have been convicted of by a jury of their peers.
The deprivation of their liberty should serve as exactly that, without the luxuries they have access to on the outside.

The prime function of prisons should be about safeguarding the public from these inmates, whether they are on shorter sentences due to their light fingered nature, in taking things that don't belong to them, sell drugs to vulnerable addicts, or the extreme sentences handed down to those who have a propensity to vioently assault others or that take the life of another.

As for the release on licence half way through a sentence, I find this absolutely perplexing. Why not just sentence them to that period of time and be done with it, instead of trying to pull the wool over the eyes of poor victims and claiming a job well done when lengthy sentences handed out.
I agree with a lot of your post, but a tv is hardly a luxury is it? Are books luxuries? Where do you stop? Having access to tv etc. is giving the prisoners something to do to keep occupied. This is surely conducive to their mental wellbeing, which in turn benefits society upon their release. I imagine it will also reduce the amount of unrest in the prison which again is beneficial to everyone.

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Burnley Ace » Sun May 24, 2020 12:12 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:28 pm
The taxpayer needs to decide by a majority count on the punishment, when you spend your money on something you usually have the right to choose what you are paying for, the same should apply here, a fortune would be saved on MOJ costs with trials & appeals & prison costs, you would almost instantly reduce offending & repeat offending as a deterrent.
Would your system just be limited to taxpayers? What about people whose income is below the threshold or stay at home partners that don’t pay tax? If I pay £25K a year (in all taxes) shouldn’t I get more of a say than someone who only pays £5k? I also own a lot of land and property so have more invested in this country, that should give me more influence and I am white, Christian and male, that should give me even more of a say than your newly arrived, minimum wage non Christian immigrant!! Or we could leave it to the educated experienced Judges who follow the Sentencing Guidelines that the government approve?

TVC15
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by TVC15 » Sun May 24, 2020 12:23 pm

Easiest way is to have it as part of the scratch card system surely ?
Just print them with an extra prize - maybe a picture of the hangman motif....even link it in with a nights stay for all winners at a swanky hotel before they all convene for “super sentence Saturday”
......which probably links into another idea around involving Jeff Stelling and starting a new super six competition where you predict what they are going to sentence
Castration
Electric Chair
Hanging
Life - (and we mean life)
Lethal injection
Stoned to death
Burnt at the stake

Jakub - you are really on to something here. Can I apologise for poo pooing your original idea as I’ve give it some proper thought now

(All the above is copyright by TVC15 inc)

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by ClaretAndJew » Sun May 24, 2020 12:23 pm

Imagine the feeling we have all had with the lock down. That's what prisoners go through every day for years, with even less privileges than us.

Prison is a massive punishment and this whole idea that is cushy or a holiday camp is lazy and just repeating the same old lines from other boring people without any real opinions.

Top Claret
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Top Claret » Sun May 24, 2020 12:30 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:56 am
In certain states such as Alabama, yeah. You can be caught smoking cannabis on 3 separate occasions and be locked up for 25+ years.
Certainly not that would be ridiculous. We should come down hard on crime were violence has been used

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Swizzlestick » Sun May 24, 2020 12:34 pm

Top Claret wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:30 pm
Certainly not that would be ridiculous. We should come down hard on crime were violence has been used
For example?

Edited since I posted, but I’m still intrigued. Where do you draw the line?

Top Claret
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Top Claret » Sun May 24, 2020 12:37 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:23 pm
Imagine the feeling we have all had with the lock down. That's what prisoners go through every day for years, with even less privileges than us.

Prison is a massive punishment and this whole idea that is cushy or a holiday camp is lazy and just repeating the same old lines from other boring people without any real opinions.
To compare our token lockdown to prison is crazy, you have obviously not been in a prison

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun May 24, 2020 12:40 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:12 pm
Would your system just be limited to taxpayers? What about people whose income is below the threshold or stay at home partners that don’t pay tax? If I pay £25K a year (in all taxes) shouldn’t I get more of a say than someone who only pays £5k? I also own a lot of land and property so have more invested in this country, that should give me more influence and I am white, Christian and male, that should give me even more of a say than your newly arrived, minimum wage non Christian immigrant!! Or we could leave it to the educated experienced Judges who follow the Sentencing Guidelines that the government approve?
Anybody who's eligible to vote would also be eligible to vote for the 6 punishments based on the same criteria, justice needs to work for everybody, when you constantly hear people complain about so & so only got 6 years for this that & the other, they'd be none of that because you would have the opportunity to decide upon the punishment as opposed to a wrinkly old judge out of touch with the real world, probably sentenced based on quota directives depending on how full the prisons are or current public confidence with the justice system. It's a simple clear system designed to allow the public to become involved & express how they feel based on the overview before making any selections.

Top Claret
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Top Claret » Sun May 24, 2020 12:40 pm

I have personally enjoyed the lockdown it has given me the opportunity to get out and discover our wonderful countryside.
It has also made me realise all the time and money that I waste in pubs, restaurants and cafes.
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sun May 24, 2020 12:58 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:40 pm
Anybody who's eligible to vote would also be eligible to vote for the 6 punishments based on the same criteria, justice needs to work for everybody, when you constantly hear people complain about so & so only got 6 years for this that & the other, they'd be none of that because you would have the opportunity to decide upon the punishment as opposed to a wrinkly old judge out of touch with the real world, probably sentenced based on quota directives depending on how full the prisons are or current public confidence with the justice system. It's a simple clear system designed to allow the public to become involved & express how they feel based on the overview before making any selections.
Instead of postal votes perhaps we could just use our phones?
We could put it on ITV at 8pm on a Saturday.
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Funkydrummer » Sun May 24, 2020 1:00 pm

The poor lass has had her funeral back in Lebanon.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... s-lebanon/

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Funkydrummer » Sun May 24, 2020 1:05 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:40 pm
Anybody who's eligible to vote would also be eligible to vote for the 6 punishments based on the same criteria, justice needs to work for everybody, when you constantly hear people complain about so & so only got 6 years for this that & the other, they'd be none of that because you would have the opportunity to decide upon the punishment as opposed to a wrinkly old judge out of touch with the real world, probably sentenced based on quota directives depending on how full the prisons are or current public confidence with the justice system. It's a simple clear system designed to allow the public to become involved & express how they feel based on the overview before making any selections.
We could make it part of the National Lottery- when your number's up, off you pop. :D

Blackrod
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Blackrod » Sun May 24, 2020 1:09 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:23 pm
Easiest way is to have it as part of the scratch card system surely ?
Just print them with an extra prize - maybe a picture of the hangman motif....even link it in with a nights stay for all winners at a swanky hotel before they all convene for “super sentence Saturday”
......which probably links into another idea around involving Jeff Stelling and starting a new super six competition where you predict what they are going to sentence
Castration
Electric Chair
Hanging
Life - (and we mean life)
Lethal injection
Stoned to death
Burnt at the stake

Jakub - you are really on to something here. Can I apologise for poo pooing your original idea as I’ve give it some proper thought now

(All the above is copyright by TVC15 inc)
Happy with the first five methods you list. I would also add firing squad and remove the last two which I don’t agree with. Corporal punishment and public humiliation would help too.

Rehabilitation should be applied to crimes such as theft, fraud, gbh etc not murderers or sex offenders imo of course.

TVC15
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by TVC15 » Sun May 24, 2020 1:23 pm

Errrr okaaay

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by evensteadiereddie » Sun May 24, 2020 1:25 pm

You forgot the whipping ! :?

Rileybobs
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Rileybobs » Sun May 24, 2020 1:50 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:58 pm
Instead of postal votes perhaps we could just use our phones?
We could put it on ITV at 8pm on a Saturday.
I think you’re missing a huge opportunity by not considering the live spectator angle. When social distancing becomes a thing of the past, think of the demand to actually attend the event! We could fill out stadiums. Maybe use regional venues such as Old Trafford and Villa park for your run of the mill murderers and then take it to Wembley for the big events such as the beheading of youths who deface war memorials.
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Bordeauxclaret
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sun May 24, 2020 2:00 pm

I’d like to see a purpose built venue to support it.

Rileybobs
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Rileybobs » Sun May 24, 2020 2:03 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 2:00 pm
I’d like to see a purpose built venue to support it.
Good shout. One that allows for safe standing and maybe social distancing so we can get this show on the road ASAP.

TVC15
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by TVC15 » Sun May 24, 2020 2:04 pm

The Joan of Arc Stadium ?

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Funkydrummer » Sun May 24, 2020 2:06 pm

What about a gladiatorial spectacle, completed only by "thumbs up " or "thumbs down " by a local dignatory.

TVC15
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by TVC15 » Sun May 24, 2020 2:13 pm

Funkydrummer wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 2:06 pm
What about a gladiatorial spectacle, completed only by "thumbs up " or "thumbs down " by a local dignatory.
Joe Pasquale or maybe Les Dennis.
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Bordeauxclaret
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sun May 24, 2020 2:19 pm

Actually we might not be able to put it on at 8pm.
If we are going to execute people it would have to be after the watershed.
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Hapag Lloyd » Sun May 24, 2020 2:25 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:11 pm
Strange, as the Oxford dictionary definition of liberal is;

'Willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.'

I'm not sure you know what liberal means.
I’m quite sure he does know what liberal means, it’s the self proclaimed “liberals” on this board that seem to struggle.

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by TVC15 » Sun May 24, 2020 2:25 pm

Going back to the 15th century is proving more complicated than we first thought
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Blackrod
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Blackrod » Sun May 24, 2020 2:35 pm

They hadn’t invented the electric chair, lethal injection or firing squad in that era so not going back that far (or that backward) 😏

Damo
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Damo » Sun May 24, 2020 2:52 pm

Some great ideas for game shows here.
A "Running man" type would be my preferred choice where you get to pick your favourite executioner, with special moves and fancy weapons.
Could even get Arnie to be the compair. He likes a good execution doesnt he
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Caballo
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Caballo » Sun May 24, 2020 3:17 pm

Damo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 2:52 pm
Some great ideas for game shows here.
A "Running man" type would be my preferred choice where you get to pick your favourite executioner, with special moves and fancy weapons.
Could even get Arnie to be the compair. He likes a good execution doesnt he
Sounds perfect, I bet Simon Cowell is working on the format as we speak . Ant and Dec to front it, phone or text vote to decide who's running. Gemma Collins and Rylan doing the after show on ITV4.
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Volvoclaret » Sun May 24, 2020 3:34 pm

Or put a number of convicts on an island to fight it out with the survivor getting a pardon. Could call it Hunger Games or something like that.
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Burnley Ace
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Burnley Ace » Sun May 24, 2020 4:48 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:40 pm
Anybody who's eligible to vote would also be eligible to vote for the 6 punishments based on the same criteria, justice needs to work for everybody, when you constantly hear people complain about so & so only got 6 years for this that & the other, they'd be none of that because you would have the opportunity to decide upon the punishment as opposed to a wrinkly old judge out of touch with the real world, probably sentenced based on quota directives depending on how full the prisons are or current public confidence with the justice system. It's a simple clear system designed to allow the public to become involved & express how they feel based on the overview before making any selections.
Why is it limited to those that can vote? I thought it was based on those who pay. If I am a well educated foreign national paying tens of thousands in tax why shouldn’t I get to decide? Rather than a semi literate oaf who gets to decide through luck?

If you think Judges in criminal courts are out of touch old wrinklier that you don’t know any. What you mean to say is Judges aren’t swayed by populist opinion.

Do you know why criminal cases are R.v. Def? It’s so that all the things you are advocating- populism, revenge, racism etc aren’t included

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sun May 24, 2020 5:58 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 2:19 pm
Actually we might not be able to put it on at 8pm.
If we are going to execute people it would have to be after the watershed.
There'd be an hour build up first though.

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Burnley Ace » Sun May 24, 2020 9:34 pm

Blackrod wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:43 pm
There really is an underclass in this country. A life sentence = up for parole after 15 years. Meals made for them, tv, probably games consoles etc. Just get rid of them.
Life sentence = up for parole after serving the minimum tariff set by the Judge and then when they are released serving the rest of their life on licence subject to recall.

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun May 24, 2020 9:47 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 9:34 pm
Life sentence = up for parole after serving the minimum tariff set by the Judge and then when they are released serving the rest of their life on licence subject to recall.
By that point, past it unemployable for the rest of the life destined for benefits thereon after, 50 or so years old & nothing to show for it unless you leave prison with a pension, drain in prison drain out of prison.
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Burnley Ace
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Burnley Ace » Sun May 24, 2020 10:45 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 9:47 pm
By that point, past it unemployable for the rest of the life destined for benefits thereon after, 50 or so years old & nothing to show for it unless you leave prison with a pension, drain in prison drain out of prison.
Do you also want to penalise those people that are unemployable in their 50s that are just an ongoing drain? Would they get a vote under your system? What about those that leave prison with a degree or better qualifications than when they went in?

Shouldn’t your criticism be directed towards those un-Christian employers that don’t believe in rehabilitation and aren’t prepared to give someone a second chance? It’s just discrimination.

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by tiger76 » Sun May 24, 2020 10:48 pm

A 34-year-old man has become the sixth person to be charged with the murder of a law student in a drive-by shooting.

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun May 24, 2020 10:58 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:45 pm
Do you also want to penalise those people that are unemployable in their 50s that are just an ongoing drain? Would they get a vote under your system? What about those that leave prison with a degree or better qualifications than when they went in?

Shouldn’t your criticism be directed towards those un-Christian employers that don’t believe in rehabilitation and aren’t prepared to give someone a second chance? It’s just discrimination.
If you are wise enough to keep your nose out of trouble in the first place more sympathy is afforded even if in the 50s & unemployable, I don’t blame businesses for not recruiting ex criminals or not giving second chances, if I owned a business I wouldn’t, I’d want somebody decent in through the door I could trust, when you’ve built a business up from scratch & worked your fingers to the bone it’s too much of a risk to blow it giving a ex con a job/chance. You make your bed you have to lie in it.

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by pushpinpussy » Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am

tiger76 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:48 pm
A 34-year-old man has become the sixth person to be charged with the murder of a law student in a drive-by shooting.
I've seen this in the paper this morning. I work in the legal sector and I have noticed over the past 10 years that the number of Muslims in prisons has surged dramatically. This is down to social division in my eyes.

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by MACCA » Mon May 25, 2020 8:41 am

tiger76 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:48 pm
A 34-year-old man has become the sixth person to be charged with the murder of a law student in a drive-by shooting.
Wowzers, I heard they were a number of occupants but 6?!

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Zlatan » Mon May 25, 2020 9:31 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:38 am
Please explain why you think it’s mental?
Because we live in a democracy with laws that govern us - they’re not perfect but they’re a damn sight better that post apocalyptic Mad Max scenarios.

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by wilks_bfc » Mon May 25, 2020 9:38 am

MACCA wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:41 am
Wowzers, I heard they were a number of occupants but 6?!
There weren’t 6 in the car

Some of those charged are for assisting an offender

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by MACCA » Mon May 25, 2020 9:59 am

wilks_bfc wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 9:38 am
There weren’t 6 in the car

Some of those charged are for assisting an offender
Ah, so not 6 charged with murder then like Tiger said, thought it was strange.

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon May 25, 2020 10:15 am

Zlatan wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 9:31 am
Because we live in a democracy with laws that govern us - they’re not perfect but they’re a damn sight better that post apocalyptic Mad Max scenarios.
What I was suggesting you couldn't think of anything more democratic if you tried, it's basically asking a large chunk of the population to decide upon a selection of punishments, i don't know about you but some people would like some sort of say where there money is getting spent. The system is outdated & anarchic in terms of justice being served, it desperately needs revamping & revolutionising.

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Rileybobs » Mon May 25, 2020 10:35 am

It’s crying out for Barry Hearn to step in and give our judicial system the darts and snooker treatment.
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Lord Beamish
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Lord Beamish » Mon May 25, 2020 10:39 am

Jeez! Some Posters on here seem determined to turn this Message Board into a Right Wing Toilet.

I really wouldn’t want to live in their heads.
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Burnley Ace » Mon May 25, 2020 12:12 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 10:15 am
What I was suggesting you couldn't think of anything more democratic if you tried, it's basically asking a large chunk of the population to decide upon a selection of punishments, i don't know about you but some people would like some sort of say where there money is getting spent. The system is outdated & anarchic in terms of justice being served, it desperately needs revamping & revolutionising.
You are asking for a specific section of society - the taxpayer, the landowner, the entitled, the employed.

People do have a say where there money is spent - it’s the general election when people spend weeks arguing about spending plans - noticeably not much is ever spent on justice and penal reform which is quite possibly why we have so many in jail and so many reoffending.

How is our current system anarchic when you’ve written that Judges just follow the rules? and as for outdated, as others have pointed out, you are wanting a medieval justice system based on revenge!

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon May 25, 2020 12:21 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:12 pm
You are asking for a specific section of society - the taxpayer, the landowner, the entitled, the employed.

People do have a say where there money is spent - it’s the general election when people spend weeks arguing about spending plans - noticeably not much is ever spent on justice and penal reform which is quite possibly why we have so many in jail and so many reoffending.

How is our current system anarchic when you’ve written that Judges just follow the rules? and as for outdated, as others have pointed out, you are wanting a medieval justice system based on revenge!
The capital punishment would be 1 simple lethal injection with no glamour or audiences or any media coverage, actually dying with dignity even with 1 person chosen by the offender to be with them. The public need to decide & become involved in my view with the punishment selection process only after reading a overview of the nature of the crimes. It's a broad varied pool of people we would be asking from a vicar to a mechanic so you would get mixed selections, people who don't believe in capital punishment wouldn't have to select that option, it's quite possible after the overview maybe in the public's overall perception a long prison sentence would get selected, the public need to choose democratically.

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Swizzlestick » Mon May 25, 2020 12:24 pm

I see we’re still on this.

Cool.

GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon May 25, 2020 12:50 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:21 pm
The capital punishment would be 1 simple lethal injection with no glamour or audiences or any media coverage, actually dying with dignity even with 1 person chosen by the offender to be with them. The public need to decide & become involved in my view with the punishment selection process only after reading a overview of the nature of the crimes. It's a broad varied pool of people we would be asking from a vicar to a mechanic so you would get mixed selections, people who don't believe in capital punishment wouldn't have to select that option, it's quite possible after the overview maybe in the public's overall perception a long prison sentence would get selected, the public need to choose democratically.
Just to confirm, you want the power to decide how someone is killed?

Not much of a homicidal manic much are you...

TVC15
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by TVC15 » Mon May 25, 2020 1:22 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:50 pm
Just to confirm, you want the power to decide how someone is killed?

Not much of a homicidal manic much are you...
Not just how....but whether.
He thinks it’s his right because he has paid some tax.

Just like it’s my right to think he is batshit crazy.

GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon May 25, 2020 1:40 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 1:22 pm
Not just how....but whether.
He thinks it’s his right because he has paid some tax.

Just like it’s my right to think he is batshit crazy.
You're not the only one sitting here thinking he's batshit crazy :lol:

I'm not even sure he should be allowed out without a carer anymore.

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Re: Drive by shooting

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon May 25, 2020 3:15 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:50 pm
Just to confirm, you want the power to decide how someone is killed?

Not much of a homicidal manic much are you...
No, I want to be part of the process making the decision, the lethal injection comment was 1 idea how you could carry out the capital punishment action without any fuss, going off some of the other posts making my idea out to be some kind of X factor style arrangement where you get phone ins & poking fun as if I was suggesting some kind of fun spectacle. The idea is to simply put it to the public to decide on sentencing as opposed to a judge, justice would work for everybody on a democratic basis.

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