Covid-19

[Grumps]

It’s one article only and I’m more concerned about the close proximity to other passengers. On many budget airlines you are squeezed in like sardines.

There's many similar articles
It was just to show you might have been wrong in claiming it was well known bugs spread on planes

As I've said elsewhere, the airports would be more of a worry for me, but I'd give it a go in a couple of months if things continue to improve

[Devils_Advocate]

f*ck me our PM had to have the meaning of 'no recourse to public funds' explained to him with regard to his country's immigration laws during his very public liaison committee

Nevermind Cummings we need this charlatan gone cos he's an absolute incompetent liability

[jackmiggins]

There's many similar articles
It was just to show you might have been wrong in claiming it was well known bugs spread on planes

As I've said elsewhere, the airports would be more of a worry for me, but I'd give it a go in a couple of months if things continue to improve

Only out of morbid curiosity, is Grumps your circus name?

[ksrclaret]

Emily Maitlis pulled from hosting Newsnight this evening after her opening statement about Cummings’ behaviours. We’re through the looking glass now.

[joey13]

I think he was very bright, he had a problem, read the guidelines, realised there was an answer.

If people don't have brains they'll go for picnics in the park, or mass gatherings on the beach, because they somehow think that would be Ok just because Cummings did what he did.

Or go for a drive to test their eyes , trouble with Cummings is he thinks people are stupid enough to believe his bull story ,then again some are ,hey Grumps

[Grumps]

Or go for a drive to test their eyes , trouble with Cummings is he thinks people are stupid enough to believe his bull story ,then again some are ,hey Grumps

If you took the time to read what I've posted several times previously, you will see that I didn't believe his story about driving to Barnard Castle, and that he should have been sacked for it
But don't let the truth get in the way of an insult, hey joey.

[AndrewJB]

Or go for a drive to test their eyes , trouble with Cummings is he thinks people are stupid enough to believe his bull story ,then again some are ,hey Grumps

It’s important to stop by sheer coincidence at a beauty spot and have a medicinal picnic - not for pleasure purposes. Just a coincidence it was his wife’s birthday too.

The dogdirt sandwiches our metropolitan bubble dwelling elite; like Johnson, Cummings, and the rest of the cabinet serve us up, shame us all. I remember the 80s when some disaster would happen - like Chernobyl - and you’d get a whole set of press releases that were all about managing public relations and minimising damage to the government’s reputation, and it was so obvious but the people in the USSR were living under the heel of a dictatorship, so you couldn’t blame them. We aren’t and yet we have to put up with the same rubbish. We - and the Americans - are shamed before the rest of the democratic world for what we have elected, and the **** sandwiches we’re fed.

[tiger76]

Hospital admissions 'continue to decline'

There are 8,879 people in UK hospitals with Covid-19, he adds, down from just over 10,000 at this time last week.

Falling but not drastically,and as Weston-Super-Mare demonstrated there's always the threat of local spikes.

[joey13]

If you took the time to read what I've posted several times previously, you will see that I didn't believe his story about driving to Barnard Castle, and that he should have been sacked for it
But don't let the truth get in the way of an insult, hey joey.

I apologize,sorry

[RingoMcCartney]

And people still attempt to claim the BBC doesn't have a left wing bias!

Last nights totally biased Emily Maitliss anti Cummings monologue

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/entertai ... s-52824508

Newsnight 'breached BBC impartiality guidelines' with Cummings remarks

Following on from Panorama where, the only people they could find were lefties

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... s-PPE.html

How WAS flagship BBC show infiltrated by the Left? When Panorama turned its guns on the PPE crisis, five medics savaged the Tories' approach. Yet they ALL had Labour links, 


But it has since emerged that all five of the doctors and nurses Panorama chose to interview were longstanding Labour Party activists or supporters.

This was not shared with viewers, in what appears to be a flagrant breach of BBC guidelines.

Disgraceful organisation, pumping lefty propaganda out 24/7

Fortunately, demographics mean that given time the unjust regressive tax, AKA licence fee , will disappear as fewer and fewer people pay it.

Or it could come sooner given the decision to spend millions of BBC 3!!

The Biased Broadcasting Corporation- making television for people who dont watch television!

Another nail....

[Zlatan]

Triggered...

[TVC15]

Funny how the BBC got their wrists slapped for a presenter who criticised Cummings yet decided to do nothing about their main political commentator tweeting in support of Cummings.
Funny how our resident message board clown forgot to mention that.

[Zlatan]

Funny how the BBC got their wrists slapped for a presenter who criticised Cummings yet decided to do nothing about their main political commentator tweeting in support of Cummings.
Funny how our resident message board clown forgot to mention that.

Is that the same one who broke electoral laws during the election, in favour of the Tories?

[taio]

Funny how the BBC got their wrists slapped for a presenter who criticised Cummings yet decided to do nothing about their main political commentator tweeting in support of Cummings.
Funny how our resident message board clown forgot to mention that.

If you're referring to Laura Kuenssberg what did she say in support of Cummings? The bit I saw I thought was just a factual statement.

[mdd2]

Sadly a lot of shock horror comes from card carrying Tories, Lib Dems or Labour when the other side may have gliched. My memory can go back to all the flack the Tories faced in the early 60's and then it was Wilson who had to put up with accusations later in the 60's and 70's and it has just gone on and on and on and on but the advent of 24hr news has, IMO, made it hundred times worse.

[joey13]

And people still attempt to claim the BBC doesn't have a left wing bias!

Last nights totally biased Emily Maitliss anti Cummings monologue

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/entertai ... s-52824508

Newsnight 'breached BBC impartiality guidelines' with Cummings remarks

Following on from Panorama where, the only people they could find were lefties

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... s-PPE.html

How WAS flagship BBC show infiltrated by the Left? When Panorama turned its guns on the PPE crisis, five medics savaged the Tories' approach. Yet they ALL had Labour links, 


But it has since emerged that all five of the doctors and nurses Panorama chose to interview were longstanding Labour Party activists or supporters.

This was not shared with viewers, in what appears to be a flagrant breach of BBC guidelines.

Disgraceful organisation, pumping lefty propaganda out 24/7

Fortunately, demographics mean that given time the unjust regressive tax, AKA licence fee , will disappear as fewer and fewer people pay it.

Or it could come sooner given the decision to spend millions of BBC 3!!

The Biased Broadcasting Corporation- making television for people who dont watch television!

Another nail....

Can’t handle the truth Ringo

[TVC15]

If you're referring to Laura Kuenssberg what did she say in support of Cummings? The bit I saw I thought was just a factual statement.

This was the tweet she posted to the daily mirror reporter
“Source says his trip was within guidelines as Cummings went to stay with his parents so they could help with childcare while he and his wife were ill - they insist no breach of lockdown“

We know now that is not factually correct as he was not ill when they went up and did not know whether he was going to be either.
We also now know other aspects of the trip which were not within guidelines (unless anyone seriously believes the castle story !!)

I’m assuming the reason the bbc received a number of complaints about this is that she was countering the daily mirror without herself knowing the full story. The unbiased stance that she is supposed to take should mean that at the very least she should be confirming her source had got his facts correct....but probably she should have said nothing and waited till more facts emerged as to the public it looks like she is defending the government.

[RingoMcCartney]

Can’t handle the truth Ringo

I can.

I'm just waiting for the BBC to broadcast it.

[taio]

This was the tweet she posted to the daily mirror reporter
“Source says his trip was within guidelines as Cummings went to stay with his parents so they could help with childcare while he and his wife were ill - they insist no breach of lockdown“

We know now that is not factually correct as he was not ill when they went up and did not know whether he was going to be either.
We also now know other aspects of the trip which were not within guidelines (unless anyone seriously believes the castle story !!)

I’m assuming the reason the bbc received a number of complaints about this is that she was countering the daily mirror without herself knowing the full story. The unbiased stance that she is supposed to take should mean that at the very least she should be confirming her source had got his facts correct....but probably she should have said nothing and waited till more facts emerged as to the public it looks like she is defending the government.

Don't get the fuss. She was just referring to what sources said and their view - that in itself is factual.

[Paul Waine]

Report in Times online about France destroying - as part of a cost-saving programme - more than 1.5 billion of their face masks just before covid-19 started.

Coronavirus: France’s facemask fiasco burns deep for Macron

In our new series, The First Wave, Times and Sunday Times foreign correspondents examine pandemic responses around the world and ask what happens next. Adam Sage reports from Paris

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6bb3 ... 5815bb3f26

[joey13]

I can.

I'm just waiting for the BBC to broadcast it.

Last night on Newsnight , you must have missed it

[Paul Waine]

Anyone hear Lisa Nandy on R4 Today programme this morning? Worth listening to on iPlayer, somewhere between 8:20 and 8:27 - before the sports report. Nandy was pretty moderate on Cummings, not playing it up as a political points scoring exercise. Nandy was also asked about her colleague, Thornbury's comments on Islington residents "telling it as it is" outside Cummings house. Nandy's line was lost at this point, just went silent. They didn't get her back. Later in the programme presenter said that Lisa Nandy had messaged. She didn't support any attacks on politicians - she was including Cummings in her "politicians" group.

I like Lisa Nandy. Anyone who's read Dominic Cummings blog: On the ARPA/PARC ‘Dream Machine’, science funding, high performance, and UK national strategy could imagine Cummings working well with Lisa Nandy, Andy Burnham and other politicians who care about the north.

https://dominiccummings.com/an-index-of ... es-papers/

[Devils_Advocate]

Lisa Nandys current views on Johnson and Cummings

Risky, shameless, one rule for them... - the Government’s handling of COVID-19 is making headlines across the world for all the wrong reasons. We need better leadership than this

This session with the PM highlights the problem. He can’t be clear on self-isolation, or on seeking help for childcare, because (as @YvetteCooperMP so rightly put it) to do so would incriminate his advisor. What sort of government puts itself before the health of the nation?

[AndrewJB]

Don't get the fuss. She was just referring to what sources said and their view - that in itself is factual.

She’s done this a lot. Repeating what she’s been told without first checking the veracity. So just repeating Tory propaganda. People should expect actual work from her. Anyone can just parrot words.

[Hapag Lloyd]

She’s done this a lot. Repeating what she’s been told without first checking the veracity. So just repeating Tory propaganda. People should expect actual work from her. Anyone can just parrot words.

That’s a bit rich coming from you.

[AndrewJB]

That’s a bit rich coming from you.

I’m not on the public payroll to report news.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I’m not on the public payroll to report news.

Very true


You prefer to line your packet taking part in a con

[taio]

She’s done this a lot. Repeating what she’s been told without first checking the veracity. So just repeating Tory propaganda. People should expect actual work from her. Anyone can just parrot words.

It was accurate and still is because some of her sources e.g.MPs believe Cummings acted in accordance with the guidelines. They are of course wrong but the doesn't mean she was incorrect. Anyhow, it really was no big deal.

[TVC15]

It was accurate and still is because some of her sources e.g.MPs believe Cummings acted in accordance with the guidelines. They are of course wrong but the doesn't mean she was incorrect. Anyhow, it really was no big deal.

You are correct on both counts - including it was no big deal.
If Emily Maitlis would have said the points she was raising had come from her sources then it would have been the same situation. Would have been interesting to see whether the BBC would have been pulled up for that.

Personally I don’t think LK should have been tweeting what she did but it’s not a big issue...I’m more bothered about how many political correspondents the bbc employ. It’s a staggering amount....yet I can’t remember a day in the last 3 years when LK hasn’t been on our screens !

[Devils_Advocate]

An interesting piece of analysis by the Financial Times, especially the graphic on the relationship between speed of lockdown and total excess deaths

https://www.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c25 ... 8ffde71bf0

Some commentary from the author

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1265 ... 70023.html

[CombatClaret]

An interesting piece of analysis by the Financial Times, especially the graphic on the relationship between speed of lockdown and total excess deaths
https://www.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c25 ... 8ffde71bf0
Some commentary from the author
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1265 ... 70023.html

Read this too, the takeaway:

"Sufficient data worldwide now exists to conclude that, to date, the UK has the highest rate of excess deaths in the Coronavirus pandemic in the world"

[Devils_Advocate]

Read this too, the takeaway:

"Sufficient data worldwide now exists to conclude that, to date, the UK has the highest rate of excess deaths in the Coronavirus pandemic in the world"

Bear in mind there's still a lot of estimations (all be it with a lot more good data to base on) and lots of other factors before you try and use an article like this as a smoking gun.

I do however think the analysis itself is put together and presented well and I found it a really interesting read and this is the kind of work that should be going on but like with this article it needs to be done carefully and with the right accuracy and caveats

[martin_p]

It was accurate and still is because some of her sources e.g.MPs believe Cummings acted in accordance with the guidelines. They are of course wrong but the doesn't mean she was incorrect. Anyhow, it really was no big deal.

But if they were ‘sources’ in the Tory party she should have made that clear. It’s pretty obvious they were, but she leaves herself open to criticism by not stating that.

[CombatClaret]

Bear in mind there's still a lot of estimations (all be it with a lot more good data to base on) and lots of other factors before you try and use an article like this as a smoking gun.
I do however think the analysis itself is put together and presented well and I found it a really interesting read and this is the kind of work that should be going on but like with this article it needs to be done carefully and with the right accuracy and caveats

It chimes nearly exactly with what the excellent and detailed Sunday Times article concluded.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/thre ... -05sjvwv7g

That the majority of excess deaths can be put down to the three weeks of dither and delay before putting a lockdown in place. By the time it was put in place we already had hundreds of thousands of infections spread across the entire country.

[CombatClaret]

EYu3B8EXkAA2k9J.jpg (108.88 KiB) Viewed 2339 times

[dsr]

EYu3B8EXkAA2k9J.jpg

Who is estimating the number of infections, and how? Specifically, can they confirm that number of excess deaths was not used in the estimate of the number of infections? Otherwise the second graph is meaningless.

[tiger76]

It chimes nearly exactly with what the excellent and detailed Sunday Times article concluded.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/thre ... -05sjvwv7g

That the majority of excess deaths can be put down to the three weeks of dither and delay before putting a lockdown in place. By the time it was put in place we already had hundreds of thousands of infections spread across the entire country.

Dither and delay sums this government up,that and the lack of early testing which Hancock once again dodged when challenged on Peston last night,everybody knows why test & trace was abandoned because we didn't have the capacity to make it work effectively,plus the herd immunity strategy was still being mooted at that time,and PPE preparation was another failing apart from all those faults the government's handling of this crisis has proved exemplary.

[ksrclaret]

Good to see Hancock in fits of laughter whilst being interviewed about test track trace.

Only 60k dead soft lad. Keep laughing.

[Devils_Advocate]

Who is estimating the number of infections, and how? Specifically, can they confirm that number of excess deaths was not used in the estimate of the number of infections? Otherwise the second graph is meaningless.

The data was taken from the national statistic agencies of the 19 countries included and these country's were used because the data these agencies produce is extensive and robust enough for comparisons to be made.

Using excess death numbers is not part of the accepted methodology for estimation the number of infections so no it wasn't used.

The analyst who has pulled this together for the article is John Burn-Murdoch has been one of the most followed and respected experts for providing all different kinds of data analasyst through this crisis and just in case you are suspecting he may be biased if you follow him and the conversations he has with people who question him you will see his prime and only objective is giving good, accurate and fair analysis

If you have specific concerns about how each of the agencies calculate their numbers then feel free to go and look up their methodology and come back and let us know what you find so we can discuss

[dsr]

The data was taken from the national statistic agencies of the 19 countries included and these country's were used because the data these agencies produce is extensive and robust enough for comparisons to be made.

Using excess death numbers is not part of the accepted methodology for estimation the number of infections so no it wasn't used.

The analyst who has pulled this together for the article is John Burn-Murdoch has been one of the most followed and respected experts for providing all different kinds of data analasyst through this crisis and just in case you are suspecting he may be biased if you follow him and the conversations he has with people who question him you will see his prime and only objective is giving good, accurate and fair analysis

If you have specific concerns about how each of the agencies calculate their numbers then feel free to go and look up their methodology and come back and let us know what you find so we can discuss

No, that seems reasonable.

[tiger76]

On a more cheerful note.

Only eight active cases in New Zealand

And the nation has recorded no new cases for a sixth consecutive day. However, one 98-year-old woman in Auckland has died bringing the toll to 22 cases.

The last time there were signs of community transmission in the country was also more than a month ago, said director general of health Ashley Bloomfield.

From tomorrow, New Zealand will allow gatherings to increase from 10 to 100 people.

It has also indicated it may open up its borders to Australia in July. A tentative plan is due next week.

It'll be interesting to observe whether allowing large gatherings leads to an increase in cases,but they've suppressed it so much that the risk has been greatly minimised.

[tiger76]

Juanita, the 111-year-old who has recovered from Covid

At 111, Juana Zúñiga has become the oldest patient in Chile to recover from Covid-19.

Zúñiga tested positive after an outbreak at her care home near Santiago, where she is the oldest resident.

Despite suffering from respiratory problems even before the pandemic, Zúñiga - who is known as Juanita - was not seriously affected by the virus, the director of her care home explained.

"She did not have any symptoms and very few bouts of fever, which was good," María Paz Sordo said.

Sordo added that they had to move Juanita to a different part of the home to keep her isolated from other residents. "Taking her out of her habitat was the most difficult thing."

Juanita has been a resident of the care home ever since her sister, with whom she lived, died six years ago. Juanita, who never married and has no children, will turn 112 in July.

We are sure her recovery is a great early birthday gift!

[tiger76]

Well i never yet another false promise and more evidence this lot couldn't run a pi** up in a brewery.

Test and trace system 'won't be fully operational until end of June'

England's test and trace system will not be fully operational until the end of June, two MPs have said.

Labour's Ben Bradshaw and Lib Dem Daisy Cooper both tweeted after a call for MPs with Baroness Dido Harding, the chairwoman of NHS Test and Trace.

A local government source also confirmed to the BBC that they were told on a government call yesterday that "we won't get test results at a local level until the end of June - so difficult to see how the system will be up and running by Monday".

Last week, Prime Minister Boris Johnson told MPs a "world-beating" test, track and trace operation would be in place by 1 June.

An NHS contact tracing app was originally due to be rolled out in mid-May but the government now says it will be ready "in the coming weeks", with Health Secretary Matt Hancock describing it as a "complement" to the system launched today.

[tiger76]

Battling Scots great-grandfather beats coronavirus after medics tell wife he would diehttps://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/loca ... -22086233

Scots super granny who beat coronavirus at 100 says 'I'm free' https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sco ... t-22096657

[Grumps]

Well i never yet another false promise and more evidence this lot couldn't run a pi** up in a brewery.

Test and trace system 'won't be fully operational until end of June'

England's test and trace system will not be fully operational until the end of June, two MPs have said.

Labour's Ben Bradshaw and Lib Dem Daisy Cooper both tweeted after a call for MPs with Baroness Dido Harding, the chairwoman of NHS Test and Trace.

A local government source also confirmed to the BBC that they were told on a government call yesterday that "we won't get test results at a local level until the end of June - so difficult to see how the system will be up and running by Monday".

Last week, Prime Minister Boris Johnson told MPs a "world-beating" test, track and trace operation would be in place by 1 June.

An NHS contact tracing app was originally due to be rolled out in mid-May but the government now says it will be ready "in the coming weeks", with Health Secretary Matt Hancock describing it as a "complement" to the system launched today.

There was a track and trace expert on the news explaining that the app isn't the main part.
You have to have been, in contact of less than 2m for at least 15mins with someone with Covid to trigger being contacted, which means most people will know the person concerned
The app is really for contact with a stranger, which given the criteria above, won't be that often

[FactualFrank]

Well i never yet another false promise and more evidence this lot couldn't run a pi** up in a brewery.

Test and trace system 'won't be fully operational until end of June'

England's test and trace system will not be fully operational until the end of June, two MPs have said.

Labour's Ben Bradshaw and Lib Dem Daisy Cooper both tweeted after a call for MPs with Baroness Dido Harding, the chairwoman of NHS Test and Trace.

A local government source also confirmed to the BBC that they were told on a government call yesterday that "we won't get test results at a local level until the end of June - so difficult to see how the system will be up and running by Monday".

Last week, Prime Minister Boris Johnson told MPs a "world-beating" test, track and trace operation would be in place by 1 June.

An NHS contact tracing app was originally due to be rolled out in mid-May but the government now says it will be ready "in the coming weeks", with Health Secretary Matt Hancock describing it as a "complement" to the system launched today.

World-beating is quite a strange phrase for him to use. It's not a competition.

It can join "Game changer" in the sense of it being a lot of old b*ll*cks.

[Lord Beamish]

World-beating is quite a strange phrase for him to use. It's not a competition.

It can join "Game changer" in the sense of it being a lot of old b*ll*cks.

It’s one of the downsides of having a PM with all the presentational sensibilities of a Game Show Host.
If the buffoon showed up fo a presser wearing a Gold Lamé Jacket, I would barely be surprised.

[tiger76]

World-beating is quite a strange phrase for him to use. It's not a competition.

It can join "Game changer" in the sense of it being a lot of old b*ll*cks.

It just smacks of hyperbole which this government are great at,just an effective system well be fine,we don't need all the fanfare.

[aggi]

There was a track and trace expert on the news explaining that the app isn't the main part.
You have to have been, in contact of less than 2m for at least 15mins with someone with Covid to trigger being contacted, which means most people will know the person concerned
The app is really for contact with a stranger, which given the criteria above, won't be that often

The above criteria sounds like a perfect description of public transport.

[Grumps]

The above criteria sounds like a perfect description of public transport.

Without social distancing yes