"New Deal"
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"New Deal"
What a shambles of a speech: Boris Johnson's "New Deal". Poundshop Churchill is now the 99p Store FDR.
UK Covid Response - 0.25% GDP
Germany Covid Response - 4% GPD
FDR 1930s New Deal - 7% GPD
No new money just re announcing old schemes, £76 per person (New Deal was $7,500 per person), “shovel ready” (remember "oven ready"). Took a swipe at the civil service and kept the culture war going with more 'tearing down statues'
No additional help for businesses under local lock downs.
Captain Tom 'raised money for charity', NHS now a charity.
£5bn to help 66million out of the worst economic crisis in decades. They gave £1bn to the DUP for 1.7million people just for a few votes.
Worst death toll in the G7. Gaslighting on a national scale.
No substance only spin.
UK Covid Response - 0.25% GDP
Germany Covid Response - 4% GPD
FDR 1930s New Deal - 7% GPD
No new money just re announcing old schemes, £76 per person (New Deal was $7,500 per person), “shovel ready” (remember "oven ready"). Took a swipe at the civil service and kept the culture war going with more 'tearing down statues'
No additional help for businesses under local lock downs.
Captain Tom 'raised money for charity', NHS now a charity.
£5bn to help 66million out of the worst economic crisis in decades. They gave £1bn to the DUP for 1.7million people just for a few votes.
Worst death toll in the G7. Gaslighting on a national scale.
No substance only spin.
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Re: "New Deal"
What do you expect from 'The man who would be King'.CombatClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:38 pmWhat a shambles of a speech: Boris Johnson's "New Deal". Poundshop Churchill is now the 99p Store FDR.
UK Covid Response - 0.25% GDP
Germany Covid Response - 4% GPD
FDR 1930s New Deal - 7% GPD
No new money just re announcing old schemes, £76 per person (New Deal was $7,500 per person), “shovel ready” (remember "oven ready"). Took a swipe at the civil service and kept the culture war going with more 'tearing down statues'
No additional help for businesses under local lock downs.
Captain Tom 'raised money for charity', NHS now a charity.
£5bn to help 66million out of the worst economic crisis in decades. They gave £1bn to the DUP for 1.7million people just for a few votes.
Worst death toll in the G7. Gaslighting on a national scale.
No substance only spin.
He won't be PM much longer. The vultures, led by the likes of Gove, will be circling soon, if they aren't already. The man is a complete fool and unfortunately, his foolishness has killed thousands of people who need not have died.
Re: "New Deal"
Captain Tom raised money for NHS Charities Together, not the NHS.
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Re: "New Deal"
Hi Combat, I wouldn't like you to be doing the team talks..... I've got the feeling you'd be comparing cricket scores and basketball scores with football.CombatClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:38 pmWhat a shambles of a speech: Boris Johnson's "New Deal". Poundshop Churchill is now the 99p Store FDR.
UK Covid Response - 0.25% GDP
Germany Covid Response - 4% GPD
FDR 1930s New Deal - 7% GPD
No new money just re announcing old schemes, £76 per person (New Deal was $7,500 per person), “shovel ready” (remember "oven ready"). Took a swipe at the civil service and kept the culture war going with more 'tearing down statues'
No additional help for businesses under local lock downs.
Captain Tom 'raised money for charity', NHS now a charity.
£5bn to help 66million out of the worst economic crisis in decades. They gave £1bn to the DUP for 1.7million people just for a few votes.
Worst death toll in the G7. Gaslighting on a national scale.
No substance only spin.
Having said that, I've not seen/listened to BJ's speech. Maybe he was speaking about "whiff whaff."
EDIT: I'd welcome someone explaining what "gaslighting" means. I recall my Granny's house having gas lighting (and no elec) before she was moved out early 60s.
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Re: "New Deal"
Why not google gaslighting?Paul Waine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:57 pmHi Combat, I wouldn't like you to be doing the team talks..... I've got the feeling you'd be comparing cricket scores and basketball scores with football.
Having said that, I've not seen/listened to BJ's speech. Maybe he was speaking about "whiff whaff."
EDIT: I'd welcome someone explaining what "gaslighting" means. I recall my Granny's house having gas lighting (and no elec) before she was moved out early 60s.
Gaslighting is a term that refers to trying to convince someone they’re wrong about something even when they aren’t.
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Re: "New Deal"
Great, another politics thread where left wingers cry for 700 pages.
Give it a rest man, we won last night.
Be happy.
Give it a rest man, we won last night.
Be happy.
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Re: "New Deal"
Quickenthetempo, it's the only pleasure they have in life. Let them cry into their beer a little bit longer.
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Re: "New Deal"
I wouldn't class myself as left wing, but I think it's fair to call out our Prime Ministers when they come out with a pile of BS. Johnson has bigged up his spending plans as a Rooseveltian New Deal when it's nothing of the kind. The amount? £5bn. FDR's New Deal? Equivalent of $800bn. Not even in the same ball park, more like the local rec.Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:04 pmGreat, another politics thread where left wingers cry for 700 pages.
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Re: "New Deal"
You have every right to slag him off, but most on here would rather politics were kept to a minimum and the same threads.Billy Balfour wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:28 pmI wouldn't class myself as left wing, but I think it's fair to call out our Prime Ministers when they come out with a pile of BS. Johnson has bigged up his spending plans as a Rooseveltian New Deal when it's nothing of the kind. The amount? £5bn. FDR's New Deal? Equivalent of $800bn. Not even in the same ball park, more like the local rec.
Starting one with just NEW DEAL as the title will attract football fans thinking it will be club business.
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Re: "New Deal"
I must admit that when I opened the thread I was expecting to see something about player contracts!Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:46 pmYou have every right to slag him off, but most on here would rather politics were kept to a minimum and the same threads.
Starting one with just NEW DEAL as the title will attract football fans thinking it will be club business.
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Re: "New Deal"
You sound like another Tory, trying to defend the indefensible.Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:46 pmYou have every right to slag him off, but most on here would rather politics were kept to a minimum and the same threads.
Starting one with just NEW DEAL as the title will attract football fans thinking it will be club business.
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Re: "New Deal"
Fair enough and you have a point, however, that's not what you said when you posted about left wingers crying for 700 pages. In fact, it comes nowhere near to what you have posted here.Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:46 pmYou have every right to slag him off, but most on here would rather politics were kept to a minimum and the same threads.
Starting one with just NEW DEAL as the title will attract football fans thinking it will be club business.
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Re: "New Deal"
Boris Johnson is a bit like me on SimCity when I got bored of a game and tried to make things as terrible as possible for my citizens.
Last edited by FactualFrank on Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "New Deal"
I've never voted Tory but this new MP for Burnley is getting a lot of good reports off people around here.Gordaleman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:50 pmYou sound like another Tory, trying to defend the indefensible.
Unless Labour send a decent one to contest the seat then I will be a Tory soon.
Re: "New Deal"
What has he done ?Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:57 pmI've never voted Tory but this new MP for Burnley is getting a lot of good reports off people around here.
Unless Labour send a decent one to contest the seat then I will be a Tory soon.
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Re: "New Deal"
He could search Boris and add to that thread.Billy Balfour wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:56 pmFair enough and you have a point, however, that's not what you said when you posted about left wingers crying for 700 pages. In fact, it comes nowhere near to what you have posted here.
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Re: "New Deal"
Hmm, your definition fits "debating" better, Gordaleman.Gordaleman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:02 pmWhy not google gaslighting?
Gaslighting is a term that refers to trying to convince someone they’re wrong about something even when they aren’t.
I expect if I were to google "gaslighting" I'll find lots and lots of alternative new meanings, all decided by the person using this new term.
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Re: "New Deal"
Just this week he has sent letters out to all local businesses who have gone above and beyond to safely open and keep customers safe.
He spent a lot of time in Padiham when the floods hit last year sorting through everything, helping people.
I haven't met him, it's others raving about him.
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Re: "New Deal"
Labour got criticised for boom and bust.
What makes this new deal any different as it has to be paid for?
What makes this new deal any different as it has to be paid for?
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Re: "New Deal"
Then here's Wiki's definition. Not far removed from what I said earlier. And it's by means a new term. See below.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:05 pmHmm, your definition fits "debating" better, Gordaleman.
I expect if I were to google "gaslighting" I'll find lots and lots of alternative new meanings, all decided by the person using this new term.
Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person or a group covertly sows seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or group, making them question their own memory, perception, or judgment, often evoking in them cognitive dissonance and other changes including low self-esteem. Using denial, misdirection, contradiction, and misinformation, gaslighting involves attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's beliefs. Instances can range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents occurred, to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.
The term originated from the British play Gas Light (1938, but originally performed as Angel Street in the United States) and its 1940 and 1944 film adaptations (both titled Gaslight). The term has been used in clinical psychological literature,[1][2] as well as in political commentary and philosophy.
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Re: "New Deal"
They're all coming out now, Andrew will be along soon. I love it!!
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Re: "New Deal"
Labour were criticized for claiming that they had eradicated "boom and bust".
There's something about the phrase "new deal" which politicians love. See here, for example - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal_(United_Kingdom)
Both Boris and Labour are offering us little more than soundbites here. Labour haven't put forward a credible alternative plan. The criticism that this is empty rhetoric applies equally to both sides but only Boris actually has a plan.
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Re: "New Deal"
Little more than soundbites.... 'but only Boris actually has a plan'
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Re: "New Deal"
Feel free to find information as to what Labour are proposing. Admittedly I've not looked all too hard but all I can find is that they say "the focus should be on jobs."Loyalclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:32 pmLittle more than soundbites.... 'but only Boris actually has a plan'
Sounds like a soundbite to me.
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Re: "New Deal"
Another commonly acknowledged feature of gaslightingPaul Waine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:05 pmHmm, your definition fits "debating" better, Gordaleman.
I expect if I were to google "gaslighting" I'll find lots and lots of alternative new meanings, all decided by the person using this new term.
is that those being gaslighted often struggle to recognise it.
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Re: "New Deal"
Apologies Rowls the soundbite to dis' soundbites made me smile
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Re: "New Deal"
Thanks, Gordaleman. I've got it, now. Appreciate your post. I wonder how many of the people using the term in the past few months have ever watched the plays/films.Gordaleman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:14 pmThen here's Wiki's definition. Not far removed from what I said earlier. And it's by means a new term. See below.
Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person or a group covertly sows seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or group, making them question their own memory, perception, or judgment, often evoking in them cognitive dissonance and other changes including low self-esteem. Using denial, misdirection, contradiction, and misinformation, gaslighting involves attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's beliefs. Instances can range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents occurred, to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.
The term originated from the British play Gas Light (1938, but originally performed as Angel Street in the United States) and its 1940 and 1944 film adaptations (both titled Gaslight). The term has been used in clinical psychological literature,[1][2] as well as in political commentary and philosophy.
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Re: "New Deal"
More info from Labour:
So there's a petition to "do something" but no information on what the "something" would actually be.
I really do like the phrase "laser-focused". We wouldn't want the government to focus on jobs with a soft-lit lamp, for example, would we? Or a candle. No, it's best to use Laser-Focus for things like this.
If anyone discovers an actual Labour policy or a new scientific discovery in the field of laser-focused job creation please post it here. Then we can use our own laser-focus to scrutinize it for substance.
So there's a petition to "do something" but no information on what the "something" would actually be.
I really do like the phrase "laser-focused". We wouldn't want the government to focus on jobs with a soft-lit lamp, for example, would we? Or a candle. No, it's best to use Laser-Focus for things like this.
If anyone discovers an actual Labour policy or a new scientific discovery in the field of laser-focused job creation please post it here. Then we can use our own laser-focus to scrutinize it for substance.
Re: "New Deal"
Haha...so you've got to have seen a play or film to understand a concept? I have never studied Greek but I can still recognise an idiot.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:03 pmThanks, Gordaleman. I've got it, now. Appreciate your post. I wonder how many of the people using the term in the past few months have ever watched the plays/films.
Re: "New Deal"
Perhaps they should have talked about an oven-baked plan for jobs or ‘levelling up’, things like that seem to keep people happy.Rowls wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:07 pmMore info from Labour:
So there's a petition to "do something" but no information on what the "something" would actually be.
I really do like the phrase "laser-focused". We wouldn't want the government to focus on jobs with a soft-lit lamp, for example, would we? Or a candle. No, it's best to use Laser-Focus for things like this.
If anyone discovers an actual Labour policy or a new scientific discovery in the field of laser-focused job creation please post it here. Then we can use our own laser-focus to scrutinize it for substance.
Re: "New Deal"
If there is one thing we’ve realised over the last year or so, it’s that plans of action are nowhere near as important as 3 word slogans and soundbites. Especially since any plans that are put forward are done so without the intention of being followed through with, or without any thought as to how they might actually work in practice.
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Re: "New Deal"
It's churlish to sulk just because the current Conservative Party have better soundbites martin_p.
I've long presume you're a card-carrying Labour member? So instead you could post on here when Kier "Laser-Focus" Starmer has some laser-cut policies to speak of.
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Re: "New Deal"
Only if you think people are stupid.ksrclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:24 pmIf there is one thing we’ve realised over the last year or so, it’s that plans of action are nowhere near as important as 3 word slogans and soundbites. Especially since any plans that are put forward are done so without the intention of being followed through with, or without any thought as to how they might actually work in practice.
I've found that the people who believe the slogan is more important than the actual policy are people who oppose the policy in the first place.
And I also think your theory is nonsense. Let's examine three separate three-word slogans from the past few years:
"Brexit Means Brexit" was wildly pilloried. Because it was repeated ad nauseum whilst Theresa May was constantly surrendering ground to the EU in negotiations. The slogan didn't match the actions.
"Change is Coming" was so vague and dull that hardly anybody noticed it. The slogan didn't mean anything and Corbyn lost by a landslide.
Whereas "Get Brexit Done" clearly meant something. It won a landslide election.
Slogans only work if you can associate them with substance. People are not stupid.
edit - see also Theresa May's "Strong and Stable" slogan. She was the weakest PM in living memory. Slogan's are useless unless they have a clear truth and substance to them.
Re: "New Deal"
You presume wrong. If your argument is that it’s content that matters not soundbites then it’s the fact that the government only have soundbites that should worry you more than what the opposition says.Rowls wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:25 pmIt's churlish to sulk just because the current Conservative Party have better soundbites martin_p.
I've long presume you're a card-carrying Labour member? So instead you could post on here when Kier "Laser-Focus" Starmer has some laser-cut policies to speak of.
Last edited by martin_p on Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: "New Deal"
Here’s another revelation - people who enjoy the slogans and are able to find satisfactory “substance” in them generally support the policy.Rowls wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:30 pmOnly if you think people are stupid.
I've found that the people who believe the slogan is more important than the actual policy are people who oppose the policy in the first place.
And I also think your theory is nonsense. Let's examine three separate three-word slogans from the past few years:
"Brexit Means Brexit" was wildly pilloried. Because it was repeated ad nauseum whilst Theresa May was constantly surrendering ground to the EU in negotiations. The slogan didn't match the actions.
"Change is Coming" was so vague and dull that hardly anybody noticed it. The slogan didn't mean anything and Corbyn lost by a landslide.
Whereas "Get Brexit Done" clearly meant something. It won a landslide election.
Slogans only work if you can associate them with substance. People are not stupid.
edit - see also Theresa May's "Strong and Stable" slogan. She was the weakest PM in living memory. Slogan's are useless unless they have a clear truth and substance to them.
You say the theory is nonsense and then preside to list a load of shite slogans. Hmm.
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Re: "New Deal"
There's some truth in this. But I'm capable of recognizing excellent use of slogans in parties I do not support. Corbyn's "For the Many, Not the Few" worked well in 2017 because it appealed to people who felt marginalized or believed they were missing out.
"Things can only get better" was a fantastic slogan for Labour in 1997. It smashed the risk averse fear of change that people often have if trying to vote out an incumbent government. And to top it off it came with a catchy pop tune too. Easily the best since "Labour's Not Working" in 1979.
"Things can only get better" is possibly the most effective political slogan of post-war Britain.
No, I pointed out why they didn't work. Then I've showed why the best political slogan of the century DID work - because it had a clear substance to it. See above for two more examples of very good slogans.
I've also edited in an example of how slogans become retrospectively pilloried if they are not acted upon. If Theresa May had done what Boris has done then "Brexit Means Brexit" would be seen as a good slogan. But her rhetoric never matched her actions. She said "Brexit Means Brexit" then appointed a load of Remainers to negotiate with the EU. They did nothing other than conceded ground to the EU.
Boris did it right. He had a strong strategy before he had a strong slogan. Boris understands; if you use strong rhetoric, you need strong actions.
Get Brexit Done.
Won a landslide.
Last edited by Rowls on Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "New Deal"
Not another politics thread ffs . Boris could cure Covid and Cancer,reduce unemployment to 0 while handing out bundles of cash to black transvestites and screaming black lives matter while rogering Diane Abbot on the steps of No 10 but the left would moan .
“Gaslighting racist gammon fash helmet” is how Boris was just described on Twitter what in holy hell that means ?
“Gaslighting racist gammon fash helmet” is how Boris was just described on Twitter what in holy hell that means ?
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Re: "New Deal"
I understand four of those five words.AlargeClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:48 pm“Gaslighting racist gammon fash helmet” is how Boris was just described on Twitter what in holy hell that means ?
I nearly posted about how "gaslighting" has already lost its meaning from overuse and abuse earlier but I see that I don't need to as it's been demonstrated clearly here.
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Re: "New Deal"
so all the usual suspects out, except a couple, gaslighting as best they can but making absolutely no inroads whatsoever. Am sure the others will be along shortly to add some slant to the gaslighting group, you're all doing a splendid job of being the Boards opposition group. Have you had a single covert since 2016, 4 years you've been at this slanging match and throwing mud only to continually fail an lose, perhaps it's the belief you will be right one day, but not for a few years yet.
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Re: "New Deal"
Everybody's "gaslighting" now.
Re: "New Deal"
sounds like it could be a new dance craze, they been dancing to the same tune for years, all a bit boring for me though to be honest.
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Re: "New Deal"
I never denied the effect a slogan can have. The brexit one was certainly a factor in the landslide but I think it’s a stretch to suggest it won it. You could only believe that if you think people are stupid.Rowls wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:45 pmThere's some truth in this. But I'm capable of recognizing excellent use of slogans in parties I do not support. Corbyn's "For the Many, Not the Few" worked well in 2017 because it appealed to people who felt marginalized or believed they were missing out.
"Things can only get better" was a fantastic slogan for Labour in 1997. It smashed the risk averse fear of change that people often have if trying to vote out an incumbent government. And to top it off it came with a catchy pop tune too. Easily the best since "Labour's Not Working" in 1979.
"Things can only get better" is possibly the most effective political slogan of post-war Britain.
No, I pointed out why they didn't work. Then I've showed why the best political slogan of the century DID work - because it had a clear substance to it. See above for two more examples of very good slogans.
I've also edited in an example of how slogans become retrospectively pilloried if they are not acted upon. If Theresa May had done what Boris has done then "Brexit Means Brexit" would be seen as a good slogan. But her rhetoric never matched her actions. She said "Brexit Means Brexit" then appointed a load of Remainers to negotiate with the EU. They did nothing other than conceded ground to the EU.
Boris did it right. He had a strong strategy before he had a strong slogan. Boris understands; if you use strong rhetoric, you need strong actions.
Get Brexit Done.
Won a landslide.
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Re: "New Deal"
You can have great substance and a bad slogan.
You can have a great slogan and no substance.
Or you can have a great slogan that backs up great substance.
You can have a great slogan and no substance.
Or you can have a great slogan that backs up great substance.
Re: "New Deal"
Makes me wonder how I’ve got through my career without a slogan at all.
I think I’ll start the new academic year with “An A* for everybody” plastered across my whiteboard.
I think I’ll start the new academic year with “An A* for everybody” plastered across my whiteboard.
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Re: "New Deal"
LOL. Maybe what applies to politics isn't true for all professions?
Re: "New Deal"
It's wonderful to see someone actually learning rather than criticizing just for the sake of it I think you're onto something here and it could pay dividends, not least from your peers who might see you as being proactive.
Re: "New Deal"
That snidey Gove, who wants to remove his own E, so he can run the ciuntry, has written a very kong piece, to establish his credentials.Gordaleman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:50 pmWhat do you expect from 'The man who would be King'.
He won't be PM much longer. The vultures, led by the likes of Gove, will be circling soon, if they aren't already. The man is a complete fool and unfortunately, his foolishness has killed thousands of people who need not have died.
A slithering snake of the worst kind. The cowering kid at school who now wants to get his own back.