Covid-19

[Jakubclaret]

Spot on. If the bank take the necessary precautions it's then the customers responsibility to determine whether to follow the instructions of the bank employee and enter the bank.

The point I was making to the other poster was that the banks are undertaking a 'belt and braces approach' to make sure that they meticulously follow all of the rules and don't put themselves in a position in which they might be liable.

As long as they have covered all of the angles they will be in the clear. Should a customer then contract the virus they will not be liable.

Also, the banks were showing really good social responsibility and first class customer service. The young lady who was supervising the situation asked everyone in the queue the type of transaction they wanted to make. I was at the back of the queue and was making a deposit. There was a machine for taking deposits in the corner of the bank. She therefore took me straight into the bank and enabled me to make my deposit. I therefore spent minimum time in the both the queue and the bank whilst maintaining social distancing all the time. Full marks to the bank and the young lady employee.

I understand exactly what you are saying but there's no way on god's green earth why the banks would be liable for non enforcement outside, any action outside purely is designed to safeguard the banking employees & other customers any legalities don't even factor well not until there walk through the door that's when it comes into play, to be honest even if the law or any endorsed governmental rules/procedures weren't put into place it still wouldn't make the bank liable as it couldn't be proven that the customers had contacted the virus within the bank, the customers could have contacted the virus anywhere. Bringing any sort of claim forwards suggesting any neglect with the maintenance of the rules resulting in contacting the virus would be impossible to prove or as near as damn it.

[HahaYeah]

Dr. Vernon Coleman on covid-19.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx93xXzNaHg

[UnderSeige]

Dr. Vernon Coleman on covid-19.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx93xXzNaHg

A very amusing trip into 'conspiracy theory'. I once read a book by him entitled 'How to stop your Doctor from Killing You'. It has been a very useful book and three years ago enabled me to refuse a dangerous medication which turned out to be unnecessary.

[UnderSeige]

I understand exactly what you are saying but there's no way on god's green earth why the banks would be liable for non enforcement outside, any action outside purely is designed to safeguard the banking employees & other customers any legalities don't even factor well not until there walk through the door that's when it comes into play, to be honest even if the law or any endorsed governmental rules/procedures weren't put into place it still wouldn't make the bank liable as it couldn't be proven that the customers had contacted the virus within the bank, the customers could have contacted the virus anywhere. Bringing any sort of claim forwards suggesting any neglect with the maintenance of the rules resulting in contacting the virus would be impossible to prove or as near as damn it.

How it could happen (in short snappy sentences ).

• Bank only allows small number of customers in at any one time.

• Bank does not supervise queue outside.

• Bunched up queue forms.

• Someone with COVID-19 and difficult to control cough enters the queue.

• Queue is slow moving due to customers in bank taking a long time to transact their business.

• COVID-19 person not wearing a mask.

• COVID-19 person coughs several times.

• Virus particles in air.

• Some queue members along with a member of staff inhale virus particles.

• Seven days later, several bank staff and several customers develop symptoms.

• Contact tracers asks where people have been in close contact with others over the last week.

• Bank is identified as source of outbrake,

• Other customers and bank staff are contacted and advised to get tested.

• Other customers told to quarantine.

• Bank identified by press as source of coronavirus outbreak.

• Bank embarrased.

• Legally compromised - who knows?

• Is this kind of thing really happening? Yes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53386205

• Could banks be sued? - maybe. Who knows?

• Does Bank want to avoid such a situation? Yes.

• Is Bank putting measures in place to stop such an occurrence? You bet they are.

• Are Banks therefore nervous about outbreaks in their brances? Yes

• Was this my point? Yes

[tiger76]

Millionaires call for rise in taxes for the super rich

More than 80 millionaires from around the world have signed a letter calling on their governments to permanently increase taxes on the wealthiest in response to the pandemic.

"Unlike tens of millions of people around the world, we do not have to worry about losing our jobs, our homes, or our ability to support our families. We are not fighting on the frontlines of this emergency and we are much less likely to be its victims," the petition reads.

"So please. Tax us. Tax us. Tax us. It is the right choice. It is the only choice."

The letter has been signed by 83 people from seven countries so far, including Disney heirs Tom and Abigail Disney; the founder of the Warehouse Group, Stephen Tindall; and the co-founder of Ben and Jerry’s ice cream, Jerry Greenfield.

Interesting move from the wealthy, now let's see what the responses of worldwide governments is.

[Spijed]

There seems to a bit of a push back on when a vaccine will be ready:

There was hope it could be this autumn, but that no longer seems the case:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... veals.html

[cricketfieldclarets]

There seems to a bit of a push back on when a vaccine will be ready:

There was hope it could be this autumn, but that no longer seems the case:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... veals.html

One of the vaccines that is

[FactualFrank]

I expect the vaccine will come when, due to treatment, it won't be needed. And if it is still needed many will decide not to have it.

[taio]

I expect the vaccine will come when, due to treatment, it won't be needed. And if it is still needed many will decide not to have it.

Public health is predicated on prevention and therefore a vaccination will be preferred over treatment or cure.

[Spijed]

I expect the vaccine will come when, due to treatment, it won't be needed. And if it is still needed many will decide not to have it.

To begin with, a vaccine will only be offered to those who meet the criteria for a flu vaccine each year.

[UnderSeige]

One of the vaccines that is

The article is about the two British vaccines. A few weeks ago the thinking on the Imperial College Vaccine was that it would be available around the start of next year. The 'Big Hope Vaccine' is the Oxford/Astrazenica one. This is the one that, if successful should be able to initially provide 30 million doses (would cover just under half of the UK population). It could be available as early as October but depends on the results of the trial.

There are also a few others that stand a chance of being available this year from China, the US and Germany. The Chinese Army and certain Chinese business people who travel overseas are already being vaccinated.

Towards the bottom of the article:

Another vaccine is also being developed at Oxford University and the combined efforts of both teams has left Professor Shattock feeling optimistic that a vaccine could be ready soon – especially as the number of cases are falling.

He said that the although there is no certainty that either the vaccine at Imperial or Oxford could not work, the likelihood of both failing he says is 'very low'.

The more powerful vaccines, if successful, are due towards the end of next year.

[UnderSeige]

To begin with, a vaccine will only be offered to those who meet the criteria for a flu vaccine each year.

That sounds right. I think that if available, it will be offered to all people of age 50 and over. The government are also urging all people of this age group to have a flue vaccine as well.

There will then be front line workers and medically vulnerable. If successful, the Oxford/Astrazenica vaccine will provide enough doses to cover just under half of the UK population initially. There are also some other things to note:

• The early vaccines might not be strong enough to stop people from contracting the disease. They will however, likely reduce the disease to a mild illness or even asymptomatic.

• We don't yet know whether the early vaccines will stop the vaccinated people from spreading the virus.

• How many vaccines can be produced per month on an ongoing basis.

• People might need several vaccines throughout the winter if the body dumps the antibodies relatively quickly (studies have shown this to be likely)

• Later vaccines should be more powerful with added adjuvent.

[tybfc]

A supplier of my wife's company has just told her this lunchtime that they are closing today for two weeks as they are being forced into lockdown. They are in Bradford. Not heard or seen anything on the news.

[KateR]

Llamas are the answer

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-53369103

[UnderSeige]

A supplier of my wife's company has just told her this lunchtime that they are closing today for two weeks as they are being forced into lockdown. They are in Bradford. Not heard or seen anything on the news.

There you go tybfc.

Coronavirus: More than 100 outbreaks tackled a week, says Matt Hancock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53386205

Apparently there's quite a lot of these small local outbrakes at the moment. The track and tracers seem to be snuffing most of them out before become 'Leicester type local outbrakes.

[UnderSeige]

Another expert.

Employers UK could risk facing legal action from employees who return to work and contract the Covid-19 virus, a health and safety expert has warned.
Professor Andrew Watterson, of the University of Stirling, questioned whether adequate procedures and resources are in place to identify and investigate all work-related illnesses and deaths linked to the virus, specifically in non-health or social care settings.

In such cases, employees and their families may not have the Covid-19 link recognised or compensated – which could, in turn, lead to civil court action, he warned.

Professor Watterson called for further evidence and clarity from the government on exactly how its “test, trace and isolate” approach will protect workers, especially when untested workers may be asymptomatic.

He also re-emphasised the “critical” importance of the use of appropriate personal protective equipment and two-metre social distancing. https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/emplo ... ert-warns/

[Lowbankclaret]

A supplier of my wife's company has just told her this lunchtime that they are closing today for two weeks as they are being forced into lockdown. They are in Bradford. Not heard or seen anything on the news.

My friends lad just tested positive for Covid. No idea where he works but they tested everyone. He had no symptoms at all.

[joey13]

There seems to a bit of a push back on when a vaccine will be ready:

There was hope it could be this autumn, but that no longer seems the case:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... veals.html

A vaccine is years away ,it amazes me how people still believe the propaganda

[joey13]

My friends lad just tested positive for Covid. No idea where he works but they tested everyone. He had no symptoms at all.

Remember the tests are only 70% accurate

[Grumps]

A vaccine is years away ,it amazes me how people still believe the propaganda

You'd better tell the scientists then, you obviously are far more well informed than they are.

[FactualFrank]

You'd better tell the scientists then, you obviously are far more well informed than they are.

He's not alone. I've a friend and his wife on Facebook and every other thing they post is about Covid and how it's a government ploy to getting us doing what they want and people aren't thinking for themselves.

[tiger76]

England records lowest daily coronavirus hospital death toll since mid-Marchhttps://uk.yahoo.com/news/england-lowes ... 9806.html

And a 5th day in a row with no recorded deaths in Scotland.

[UnderSeige]

You'd better tell the scientists then, you obviously are far more well informed than they are.

It would be some conspiracy if the 'powers that be' are trying to convince us that there is a vaccine when there isn't:

• It would involve a good number of pharmaceutical companies - many of whom are in competition with each other -Why would they want to fail? Wouldn't the production of a successful vaccine do wonders for future business and reputation as a world leader.

• Several World governments would be conspiring with the story or at least peddling the same story by coincidence.

• Most of the worlds top Universities would need to be in on the conspiracy.

• What has anyone got to gain by peddling the story that there may be a vaccine when there is no chance of one for ten years?

• The worlds press would need to be involved or at least silenced.

[UnderSeige]

Man, 30, Dies After Attending a ‘Covid Party,’ Texas Hospital Says
"A 30-year-old man who believed the coronavirus was a hoax and attended a “Covid party” died after being infected with the virus, according to a Texas hospital.

The man had attended a gathering with an infected person to test whether the coronavirus was real, said Dr. Jane Appleby, chief medical officer at Methodist Hospital in San Antonio, where the man died.

The premise of such parties is to test whether the virus really exists or to intentionally expose people to the coronavirus in an attempt to gain immunity. Some health experts and public officials have cast doubt over whether or to what extent “Covid parties” are really happening.

Dr. Appleby said the man had told his nurse that he attended a Covid party. Just before he died, she said the patient told his nurse: “I think I made a mistake. I thought this was a hoax, but it’s not.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/12/us/3 ... death.html

[Zlatan]

Darwin Award candidate

[UnderSeige]

Please, Don’t Intentionally Infect Yourself. Signed, an Epidemiologist.
Reasons why:
1. Immunity isn’t a sure thing.
2. Reinfection could be possible
3. The virus could continue living inside you
4. Even the young can be hospitalized
5. Survivors could suffer long-term damage
6. A ‘mild’ case is hardly mild
7. There’s no shortcut to immunity
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/opin ... pe=Article

[Zlatan]

Underseige, please don’t take this the wrong way, but is this currently your full time job? I thought it would have been one of the other posters from the early days who would continue to update us all on the events of the day.

Anyway, thank you for the effort you put into the forum, I don’t always agree but I learnt to keep quiet on here a while back.

PS - it’s Flu not Flue - but I know you’ve already been told that...

[UnderSeige]

Underseige, please don’t take this the wrong way, but is this currently your full time job? I thought it would have been one of the other posters from the early days who would continue to update us all on the events of the day.

Anyway, thank you for the effort you put into the forum, I don’t always agree but I learnt to keep quiet on here a while back.

PS - it’s Flu not Flue - but I know you’ve already been told that...

No it's not my full time job. I am retired. I find the subject very interesting and would be gathering information on it anyway. If it's of interest I like to share it especially if it's 'rissing down with pain' and unfit to get out into the garden.

It would be good if some of the posters who were warning us about 'exponential growth' early on would give a take on what they think is happening now. I wasn't convinced at first.

It looks like I have done the flu/flue thing again.

[bfcjg]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... obile_news

[FactualFrank]

Getting it on purpose, to become immune doesn't make any sense - as the time you would have got it in the future, if you hadn't been immune, would be instead of you getting it now - where you got it on purpose to become immune...

[HahaYeah]

The likelihood of a mandatory vaccine.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=800CA4VA04g

[cricketfieldclarets]

This guy continues to be a breath of fresh air. His optimism is brilliant and that (and under siege) is the only place I’ve looked for updates for the last few weeks.

[NewClaret]

This guy continues to be a breath of fresh air. His optimism is brilliant and that (and under siege) is the only place I’ve looked for updates for the last few weeks.

Brilliant news.

If slow to react, I don’t think anyone can complain about our governments exit from lockdown. Seems to be working very well. Hopefully we’ll all be able to get back to the things we enjoy over the coming months (including live sports).

[ElectroClaret]

Face coverings compulsory in England from 24th July
in shops and stores.(BBC)

[fidelcastro]

Face masks to be mandatory in shops from 24th July!

Despite what Michael Gove said yesterday, this will become law and failure to comply will see people fined £100.

What could possibly go wrong, eh?

Edit: Electro beat me to it with the breaking news!

[NewClaret]

Face masks to be mandatory in shops from 24th July!

Despite what Michael Gove said yesterday, this will become law and failure to comply will see people fined £100.

What could possibly go wrong, eh?

Edit: Electro beat me to it with the breaking news!

The only reason they’ve done this is because they’re getting feedback that people are scared to return to shops. Truth is that most people aren’t scared, they just don’t want to because the whole experience is awful - queues, checks, one way systems, etc.

This is just another reason to stay away. Big mistake.

[fidelcastro]

The only reason they’ve done this is because they’re getting feedback that people are scared to return to shops. Truth is that most people aren’t scared, they just don’t want to because the whole experience is awful - queues, checks, one way systems, etc.

This is just another reason to stay away. Big mistake.

I tend to agree with you.

Very late in the day decision, just like lockdown was in the first place.

[Taffy on the wing]

Llamas are the answer

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-53369103

Better get some Llamas out in Texas then.........pretty bad out there i hear!
What with folk not wearing masks an all Y'all.

[dsr]

Face masks to be mandatory in shops from 24th July!

Despite what Michael Gove said yesterday, this will become law and failure to comply will see people fined £100.

What could possibly go wrong, eh?

Edit: Electro beat me to it with the breaking news!

Does the face mask thing actually work? I know the theory, that if you wear a face mask your sneezes will be caught in the mask and won't spread around the vicinity.

But will people keep the masks on while they sneeze? What they are being asked to do, basically, is sneeze into a handkerchief which is wrapped tightly round their face, and then after sneezing keep that handkerchief tightly wrapped round their face. Who will choose to keep a snotty handkerchief on their face? Most sneezers, I would guess, will lift the mask to sneeze into a handkerchief in the old fashioned way.

anyone any experience, either first hand or second hand?

[cricketfieldclarets]

Brilliant news.

If slow to react, I don’t think anyone can complain about our governments exit from lockdown. Seems to be working very well. Hopefully we’ll all be able to get back to the things we enjoy over the coming months (including live sports).

I posted on a seperate thread as felt it needed it. But strangely deleted. I’ve heard a solid rumour that fans will be back in September at 25% capacity. Has to be positive. Hopefully the rest follow shortly after

[cricketfieldclarets]

The crazy thing about the mask situation is that it’s being introduced when levels are very low and well after the peak. It’s a pr thing. That’s all. Imo anyway.

Bowing to pressure from media and others.

Reality is it’s currently now safer to go into a shop than it was in March. In fact with all the sanitisation and measures it’s probably safer than ever.

[cricketfieldclarets]

But if it prevents round two I’m all for it.

[fidelcastro]

I posted on a seperate thread as felt it needed it. But strangely deleted. I’ve heard a solid rumour that fans will be back in September at 25% capacity. Has to be positive. Hopefully the rest follow shortly after

And who is deciding who the lucky 25% are? What will be the criteria that needs to be met? Under a certain age? Doesn't suffer from asthma? Already had the virus?

I just don't see that working, therefore it's all fans back in or none at all, in my opinion.

[ksrclaret]

Face masks are horrific, but at least it now means there is absolutely no excuse for a 'second wave' or 'second spike' with all the measures, checks and systems we have in place.

If one materialises, I'll certainly be smelling a rat.

[fidelcastro]

Does the face mask thing actually work? I know the theory, that if you wear a face mask your sneezes will be caught in the mask and won't spread around the vicinity.

But will people keep the masks on while they sneeze? What they are being asked to do, basically, is sneeze into a handkerchief which is wrapped tightly round their face, and then after sneezing keep that handkerchief tightly wrapped round their face. Who will choose to keep a snotty handkerchief on their face? Most sneezers, I would guess, will lift the mask to sneeze into a handkerchief in the old fashioned way.

anyone any experience, either first hand or second hand?

I use public transport, where wearing a mask is supposed to be compulsory, however this is simply not enforced, as I see folk not bothering every day.

Whether it works or not depends which scientist you listen to. I don't believe all the people who do wear them change/wash them regularly either.

[dsr]

I use public transport, where wearing a mask is supposed to be compulsory, however this is simply not enforced, as I see folk not bothering every day.

Whether it works or not depends which scientist you listen to. I don't believe all the people who do wear them change/wash them regularly either.

But do they sneeze into them?

[fidelcastro]

But do they sneeze into them?

No idea. How often does the average person sneeze?

I can't say I've noticed that one.

[dsr]

No idea. How often does the average person sneeze?

I can't say I've noticed that one.

I don't know either. I sneeze more than most - it's congenital, not caused by any illness. Hay fever sufferers sneeze a fair bit. Whether the mask will help by keeping out the pollen, I don't know.

[dsr]

Face masks to be mandatory in shops from 24th July!

Despite what Michael Gove said yesterday, this will become law and failure to comply will see people fined £100.

What could possibly go wrong, eh?

Edit: Electro beat me to it with the breaking news!

What about shops that also serve food? I think it's just a sneaky way of cutting the cost of the half price dining in August offer. You can't take your mask off in the restaurant, but you can't eat with it on.

[NewClaret]

I tend to agree with you.

Very late in the day decision, just like lockdown was in the first place.

It’s stupidity. Most shops are completely empty at the moment. You can naturally social distance on the basis you’re the only one there. Even the supermarkets are quieter, for whatever reason, presumably people buying more to last when they do shop so they don’t have to go back for as long as possible.

Any typically when you’re in a small shop you are browsing for a few minutes.

Yet you can go and sit in a restaurant at “1 meter plus” for an hour or more, congregating with other households, eating and drinking without any mask at all.

I’ll be continuing to shop online until this is removed.