Russia Report

[CombatClaret]

Key take aways:
- Russia poses a ‘significant threat to the UK’ on multiple fronts.
- "No one in government knew" if Russia interfered in the EU referendum and government "actively avoided looking for evidence" on the matter.
- Today Government reject recommendation for investigation despite Intelligence Committee recommendation
- Members of house of Lord have key business interest in Russia linked to the state.
- "It is widely recognised that Russian intelligence and business are completely intertwined." Russian business people are key donors to UK parties.
- "Successive governments have welcomed the oligarchs and their money with open arms, providing them with a means of recycling illicit finance through the London ‘laundromat’, and connections at the highest levels with access to UK companies and political figures."

Regardless of the report's contents No10 lied on several occasions about on why it was not released pre-election.
https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/sta ... 2756103168

We only had 6 days to read it - Lie
It takes 6 week to get confirmation - Lie
Had not been circulated around government - Lie
Proper processed not followed - Lie

[CombatClaret]

That some leaks or disinformation went again the UK Government's agenda is not an argument for why the Government should not have acted on the threat. I direct you to these extracts:

"The spreading of disinformation is not necessarily aimed at influencing any individual outcome; it can simply have broad objectives around creating an atmosphere of distrust or otherwise fracturing society...
Russia’s promotion of disinformation and its attempts at broader political influence overseas have been widely reported.
Examples include ‘bots’ and ‘trolls’: open source studies have identified significant activity on social media;
This can result in a "general poisoning of the political narrative in the West by fomenting political extremism and ‘wedge issues’, and by the ‘astroturfing’ of Western public opinion; and general discrediting of the West...
Russia may spread disinformation or seek to influence political events for a wide range of purposes... When people start to say ‘You don’t know what to believe’ or ‘They’re all as bad as each other’,the disinformers are winning."

[Sproggy]

Astonishing stuff. Did they reach any conclusion on the key matter of whether or not bears s*** in the woods?

[CombatClaret]

Astonishing stuff. Did they reach any conclusion on the key matter of whether or not bears s*** in the woods?

Yes.
They also found that the government refused to send anyone into the woods to look so they could say there was no evidence of defecation.

[NewClaret]

And here’s me thinking that Abramovic’s investment in Chelski was all for the love of the game... I feel duped.

[Devils_Advocate]

Summary of last 4 years:

Having our democracy "interfered" with by EU = unacceptable!

Having our democracy interfered with by Russia = absolutely fine, nothing to see here

[RingoMcCartney]

Summary of last 4 years:

The British People had 40 odd years to decide whether or not they felt that the UKs membership of the European union was a good or a bad thing.

The majority decided it was a bad thing.

A tiny rump of dwindling , disgruntled, resentment fuelled, sore loser remoaners, still haven't come to terms with it.

[FCBurnley]

Same story separated by the Atlantic Ocean

[CombatClaret]

Wrongo claiming British citizen's concern over a foreign power interfering with our democracy is anti democratic.

[martin_p]

Wrongo claiming British citizen's concern over a foreign power interfering with our democracy is anti democratic.

And he had the gall to claim Corbyn was a communist!!

[Burnley Ace]

Wrongo claiming British citizen's concern over a foreign power interfering with our democracy is anti democratic.

To be fair I think he’s just claiming it’s irrelevant to the result. It’s a bit naive to think that Russia is either the first or only foreign power that tries to interfere.

[martin_p]

To be fair I think he’s just claiming it’s irrelevant to the result. It’s a bit naive to think that Russia is either the first or only foreign power that tries to interfere.

Quite possibly, but surely a foreign powers meddling in our democratic process is worthy of proper investigation.

[CombatClaret]

It’s a bit naive to think that Russia is either the first or only foreign power that tries to interfere.

Totally, but a Chinese company with links to the state was recently banned from UK infrastructure investment while owners of Russian companies with links to the state are allowed to pay for access to our politicians. Why is one ok but not the other?

[Cirrus_Minor]

Why should anyone expect any investigations from our government? Anyone would think that Russia had successfully completed a nuclear attack on our citizens.

[Quickenthetempo]

Quite possibly, but surely a foreign powers meddling in our democratic process is worthy of proper investigation.

Foreign powers own everything that's worth owning in this country. They will all have their say.

The strange thing with the Brexit referendum is that the government was by and large remainers. Why would they let Russia plot against them?

[gavster]

Summary of last 4 years:

The British People had 40 odd years to decide whether or not they felt that the UKs membership of the European union was a good or a bad thing.

The majority decided it was a bad thing.

A tiny rump of dwindling , disgruntled, resentment fuelled, sore loser remoaners, still haven't come to terms with it.

It’s exactly the same as Bill Cash, Nigel Farage etc. They spent those 40 years being disgruntled, resentment filled and trying to overturn the last result. Just in case you haven’t watch the documentary on Murdock and his influence in British political and see what good old Nigel man of the people has to say about Murdock, and why we got brexit.

[Spijed]

Why should anyone expect any investigations from our government? Anyone would think that Russia had successfully completed a nuclear attack on our citizens.

Should we view Russia as a friend?

[RingoMcCartney]

Just been on talk radio , ian Collins show, to make this point.

All those remoaners bleating that the government turned a blind eye to potential foreign interference by a foreign government need to remember a simple fact.

"THE UK GOVERNMENT AT THE TIME OF THE REFERENDUM WAS CAMERON'S S GOVERNMENT. THE OFFICIAL POLICY OF THAT GOVERNMENT WAS TO REMAIN IN THE EUROPEAN UNION

Stop clutching at straws and trying to rewrite history and make out it was a brexiteer government that turned a blind eye.

[RingoMcCartney]

I've found clear, undeniable, evidence of foreign interference in the democratic process by a foreign government.

"If the UK votes to leave the European Union, it will find itself at the back of the queue when it comes to trade talks"

the president of the United states 2016 in the run up the the EU referendum.

[martin_p]

Just been on talk radio , ian Collins show, to make this point.

All those remoaners bleating that the government turned a blind eye to potential foreign interference by a foreign government need to remember a simple fact.

"THE UK GOVERNMENT AT THE TIME OF THE REFERENDUM WAS CAMERON'S S GOVERNMENT. THE OFFICIAL POLICY OF THAT GOVERNMENT WAS TO REMAIN IN THE EUROPEAN UNION

Stop clutching at straws and trying to rewrite history and make out it was a brexiteer government that turned a blind eye.

I hope Ian Collins pointed out that the report makes no allegation that the government knew of any Russian involvement at the time of the referendum but that subsequent allegations of interference have failed to be investigated. Or maybe he hadn’t done any research either.

[RingoMcCartney]

It’s exactly the same as Bill Cash, Nigel Farage etc. They spent those 40 years being disgruntled, resentment filled and trying to overturn the last result. Just in case you haven’t watch the documentary on Murdock and his influence in British political and see what good old Nigel man of the people has to say about Murdock, and why we got brexit.

Fine.

See you in 40 odd years then .

[CombatClaret]

Just been on talk radio , ian Collins show, to make this point.
All those remoaners bleating that the government turned a blind eye to potential foreign interference by a foreign government need to remember a simple fact.
"THE UK GOVERNMENT AT THE TIME OF THE REFERENDUM WAS CAMERON'S S GOVERNMENT. THE OFFICIAL POLICY OF THAT GOVERNMENT WAS TO REMAIN IN THE EUROPEAN UNION
Stop clutching at straws and trying to rewrite history and make out it was a brexiteer government that turned a blind eye.

Successive governments have failed to investigate Russian interference properly, that's not a re-writing of history by Remainers its the findings of the Intelligence And Security Committee.

[Sproggy]

Successive governments have failed to investigate Russian interference properly, that's not a re-writing of history by Remainers its the findings of the Intelligence And Security Committee.

Chaired by Dominic Grieve who definitely doesn't have an axe to grind.

[martin_p]

Chaired by Dominic Grieve who definitely doesn't have an axe to grind.

So what are you saying? The government did investigate potential Russian interference and the IASC are telling lies? Otherwise not sure what your point is.

[tiger76]

I'm glad you pointed out that this has gone on under successive governments for many years, probably starting with one John Major, so before everyone starts throwing accusations about the current mob, just remember as useless as they are, that there's been plenty of governments that preceded them, who've been just as useless in dealing with the Russia problem, maybe our politicians will now realise that there's no point trying to cosy up to Putin.

I wouldn't hole my breath though, the dirty Russian and Saudi money talks.

As regards the Scottish and EU referendums, i'm more than happy for them to be investigated further, but i'll be surprised if any evidence emerges, if there was any it'll be long buried.

[CombatClaret]

Chaired by Dominic Grieve who definitely doesn't have an axe to grind.

“Turn any statement of fact into a question of motive.”
― The Origins of Totalitarianism

[martin_p]

I suspect the posters on here who seem happy for alleged Russian interference in our elections to go uninvestigated were the first on here demanding an investigation after this (which was rightly investigated)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Pet ... y-election

[Cirrus_Minor]

Should we view Russia as a friend?

With friends like that we don't need enemies.

[RingoMcCartney]

I hope Ian Collins pointed out that the report makes no allegation that the government knew of any Russian involvement at the time of the referendum but that subsequent allegations of interference have failed to be investigated. Or maybe he hadn’t done any research either.

Allegations as opposed to clear, unashamed interference by a foreign government in thr form of President , " back of the queue" Obama. !!

No matter how much clutching of those straws you are prepared to do. It doesn't change the simple hard to swallow fact, for you, that you lost and need to get over it.

[CombatClaret]

Allegations as opposed to clear, unashamed interference by a foreign government in thr form of President , " back of the queue" Obama. !!

Public statements by world leaders are completely different from covert actions and you know it.

"The Committee will also be aware that following extensive analysis, the Government has
concluded that it is almost certain that Russian actors sought to interfere in the 2019 General
Election"

But not the referendum? (Because we've not bothered to check). You are Trumpian in your instance that something is not there only for the reason that we haven't looked for it.

[martin_p]

Allegations as opposed to clear, unashamed interference by a foreign government in thr form of President , " back of the queue" Obama. !!

No matter how much clutching of those straws you are prepared to do. It doesn't change the simple hard to swallow fact, for you, that you lost and need to get over it.

I’m well aware of the referendum result and was ‘over it’ a long time ago. But you can’t keep using the referendum result to wash over everything. Don’t you think the allegations of Russian interference in our democratic process should be investigated, the same way you were desperate for allegations of Labour wrong doing in the Peterborough by-election to be investigated?

[JohnMcGreal]

It's a bad day for all those patriotic people who claim to love their country.

[Gordaleman]

Quite possibly, but surely a foreign powers meddling in our democratic process is worthy of proper investigation.

Do you seriously believe that Britain doesn't try to interfere in Russian politics? You'd have to be very naive if you did.

[dsr]

What actually is the allegation against Russia? Is it that they put true stuff on Twitter to influence votes? Is it that they put false stuff on Twitter to influence votes? Or is it something more serious, like rigging the electoral roll or stuffing ballot boxes or planting sleeper candidates? Or something in between?

A few years back, the Guardian newspaper made its own attempt to influence a foreign election by mailshotting an entire US county to persuade them not to vote for (I think) George W Bush. Is this Russian interference something like that but on a national scale? Or worse, or less bad?

For that matter, who was Russia voting for?

And did it have the same effect as the Guardian campaign - to produce an overwhelming victory, in that country, for the Republicans?

[martin_p]

Do you seriously believe that Britain doesn't try to interfere in Russian politics? You'd have to be very naive if you did.

Again, I’m not sure of the relevance of that point to investigating allegations of Russian interference into our democratic process.

[martin_p]

What actually is the allegation against Russia? Is it that they put true stuff on Twitter to influence votes? Is it that they put false stuff on Twitter to influence votes? Or is it something more serious, like rigging the electoral roll or stuffing ballot boxes or planting sleeper candidates? Or something in between?

A few years back, the Guardian newspaper made its own attempt to influence a foreign election by mailshotting an entire US county to persuade them not to vote for (I think) George W Bush. Is this Russian interference something like that but on a national scale? Or worse, or less bad?

For that matter, who was Russia voting for?

And did it have the same effect as the Guardian campaign - to produce an overwhelming victory, in that country, for the Republicans?

Don’t know, perhaps we should have an investigation and find out.

[aggi]

Totally, but a Chinese company with links to the state was recently banned from UK infrastructure investment while owners of Russian companies with links to the state are allowed to pay for access to our politicians. Why is one ok but not the other?

Because America only told us what to do in one of the cases.

[Gordaleman]

Again, I’m not sure of the relevance of that point to investigating allegations of Russian interference into our democratic process.

It's relevant due to the fact that we often condem other countries for doing exactly the same as we do.

Look at the fuss when three Russian warships sailed through the English Channel. You would have thought WWIII was just around the corner. Yet what they did was perfectly legal and indeed British navy ships often patrol off the the Russian Arctic and nothing is said about that.

All it is is 'Sabre rattling' and hypocrisy.

[martin_p]

It's relevant due to the fact that we often condem other countries for doing exactly the same as we do.

Look at the fuss when three Russian warships sailed through the English Channel. You would have thought WWIII was just around the corner. Yet what they did was perfectly legal and indeed British navy ships often patrol off the the Russian Arctic and nothing is said about that.

All it is is 'Sabre rattling' and hypocrisy.

You’re not getting the point here. The report comments on the government and security service reaction to the alleged interference. If we’re doing it to them (although I suspect Russians interfere in their own democratic process far more than any other government could hope to) then let them decide how to deal with it. But the point is we don’t even seem interested in finding out if it’s happening and stopping it, seemingly for political reasons.

[dsr]

Don’t know, perhaps we should have an investigation and find out.

You don't need an investigation to find out what the allegation is. Is it just an irritant like when Obama made comments about the Brexit vote? Is it an allegation of vote rigging? Is it planting fake new on Twitter? Is it introducing false votes into the ballot boxes? It matters. All the reports seem to say "interfering with the democratic process", which is a very wide ranging statement.

[cblantfanclub]

The amount of Russian money invested in London and the amount of dodgy money being laundered through London by Russians means they are very interested in maintaining sympathetic government.

As for the comments about Murdoch above as with the Russians his motives are self serving.

Journalist Anthony Hilton asked Mr Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union.
He replied: "That's easy. When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice."

[RingoMcCartney]

I’m well aware of the referendum result and was ‘over it’ a long time ago. But you can’t keep using the referendum result to wash over everything. Don’t you think the allegations of Russian interference in our democratic process should be investigated, the same way you were desperate for allegations of Labour wrong doing in the Peterborough by-election to be investigated?

Doesn't sound like it.

[martin_p]

Doesn't sound like it.

What, because I think allegations of Russian interference in a number of referenda/elections should be investigated?

Just so we’re clear, don’t you think it should be investigated too? If no, why not?

[RingoMcCartney]

Public statements by world leaders are completely different from ALLEGED covert actions and you know it.

"The Committee will also be aware that following extensive analysis, the Government has
concluded that it is almost certain that Russian actors sought to interfere in the 2019 General
Election"

But not the referendum? (Because we've not bothered to check). You are Trumpian in your instance that something is not there only for the reason that we haven't looked for it.

I agree!

Public statements by world leaders are completely different from ALLEGED covert actions and you know it too!

The former was a clear threat to the UK's future economic prospects by a foreign government. The latter are just unproven and more importantly, unquantifiable allegations. The actual effect of which on the referendum result, if any at all, will never be able to be assessed.

Anyway, you keep clutching if it makes you feel better.

[RingoMcCartney]

What, because I think allegations of Russian interference in a number of referenda/elections should be investigated?

Just so we’re clear, don’t you think it should be investigated too? If no, why not?

Just so we're clear.

You lost , get over it.

[ksrclaret]

Christ, do people actually ring up radio stations to get angry about politics?

I mean, everyone needs a hobby but come on...

[martin_p]

Just so we're clear.

You lost , get over it.

So you’re happy to let communists interfere in our elections. Ok, glad that’s clear.

[Damo]

Its funny watching remoaners stamp their feet over brexit again.
Was "russian interference" the final conspiracy theory, on how they got public sentiment so wrong, or do we have some other debunking reports to look forward to?

[Devils_Advocate]

To help highlight the level of corruption and incompetence of this Tory govt here's a little summary what they've been up to in the last 5 days

1. Matt Hancock told Parliament lockdown started on 16th March, the day SAGE told them to, so all those unnecessary deaths didn’t happen.....

.....but lockdown started on 24th March, and all those unnecessary deaths did

2. The govt announced a “New Deal” for infrastructure, with £600bn of new money.....

....turns out, only 0.8% of that is new money and the £34bn “new money” for the NHS was actually announced in 2018

3. The govt then announced £3bn of additional funding for a possible second wave.....

....that’s less than half the £8bn NHS England said it needed just to stand still, which hasn’t happened

4. Matt Hancock said wearing a mask is mandatory.....

....Downing St said wearing a mask ISN'T mandatory....

....so Gavin Williamson cleared it all up by saying they're both right

5. England’s Chief Nurse confirmed she was dropped from briefings cos she refused to back Dominic Cummings

6. A poll found public trust in UK gov ability to manage the pandemic is lowest worldwide, and I nearly fainted

7. The govt cut the budget to end FGM by 84%

8. A Tory MP texted his intern to ask for “no strings” fun “pweeease”.....

....she replied that she was having a “bad mental health day”.....

....he said maybe if she thought of “fun times” with him, she’d feel better. Nice.

9. Brexit: and now we’re back in control, it was confirmed the govt cancelled the Huawei 5G project because Donald Trump told them to

10. The Institute for Govt found 61% of businesses have made no preparations at all and that “Britain is fatally ill-prepared” for Brexit

11. The business secretary said “Seamless trade is vital for our economy, boosting business, supporting jobs, and ensuring consumers get the best deal”....

.....he was talking about England and Scotland. He still thinks abandoning seamless trade with the EU is a great idea

12. The govt used its majority to vote against protecting the NHS from being sold

13. The govt used its majority to vote against protection of agriculture and food standards

14. The govt used its majority to vote against parliament having oversight of any trade deals

15. And now corruption news, and we’ll start small: Robert Jenrick, who you might remember from previous episodes, was in charge of £25m regeneration scheme....

....60 of the 61 constituencies helped were Tory seats with small majorities, or Tory targets at the general election....

....only 2 towns had Tory majorities over 10,000. One was Jenrick’s own seat

16. It was reported the Irish tracing app cost £773,000 and works....

....the contract for managing our “world beating” app was given to the wife of a Tory MP, cost £13m in 4 months, it didn’t work...

....even if you paid £50,000 to each programmer for 4 months work, £13m buys 260 programmers....

....the successful app used by Germany – which is open source – lists 17 programmers....

....did we hire 260 programmers? If so, why? If not, where is the rest of the money?

17. Also, the govt admitted its “world beating app” broke the law

18. A leaked govt report found our “world beating” trace system is failing.....

....Serco traced 59,000 contacts in 6 weeks, which is less than 1 contact per tracer per fortnight. They got £10bn for that....

....but the govt claimed it was a success because it managed to find an outbreak in its own call centre

19. Russia report news (sorry): The govt attempted to suborn parliament by fixing the appointment of Chris Grayling to chair the Intelligence Sub-Committee (ISC)....

....it failed, so suspended the MP who did get the job

20. The ISC said the reasons given by the govt for delaying the report were “simply not true”

21. As the ISC released the report, the govt announced a pay rise for 900,000 workers. Were you distracted? Me neither

22. The report confirmed Russian interference in the Scottish Independence referendum

22. The report “reveals that no one in government knew if Russia interfered in or sought to influence the [Brexit] referendum, because they did not want to know”

23. The ISC demanded an inquiry into Russian interference in Brexit....

....the govt immediately said no

24. I’m sure this is a coincidence, but this week it was reported the largest political donor in British history is a Russian Socialite who has paid £1.7m to the Tory party.....

....She paid £160,000 for game of tennis with Boris Johnson....

....she paid £30,000 for dinner with Gavin Williamson. I know, it’s baffling....

....the company she runs has assets of £23,000 and liabilities of £8.4m, so it’s a mystery where all that donated money is coming from.

25. And finally: it was reported that the UK doesn't even have enough palettes to transport goods after we leave the EU, cos we've been relying on theirs until now, and have neither the wood nor the treatment facilities required to build enough of our own.

[elwaclaret]

Listening to Radio four.... the attitude to is it is exactly.... eh? Nothing that was not already largely known and the expert in Russian affairs, made it quite clear it was a large report that summed up to k’all.... there is nothing that will even Surprise the Kremlin. And the attitude... Russia just laughs at the excitement that reports like this, there view our incompetence in ever finding anything, but seeing opposition making out it’s a smoking gun against our Government they find HILARIOUS... it’s a peace of **** to rock the British politically.... they don’t actually need to do anything, just let us think they are.