Covid-19

[UnderSeige]

Some of the anger/frustration from holiday makers on this was the govts travel advice was to go to the Spanish Islands as these have low infection rates and are deemed safe

It is being reported that device the govt has developed that travellers use to declare their holiday destination does not have the IT capability to register anything less specific than just the country so if you go to Tenerife for example although you are nowhere near Spain that is what you have to be grouped in to

This might be why the govt have suddenly had to do a blanket approach to Spain and its islands together. If this is true then it just shows again how useless this govt are and I dont blame travelers from being upset when they have followed the advice of the govt who for no obvious reason over than an IT cock up now are doing a 180 and making them quarantine with no prior warning

The icing on the cake is the govts own Transport Minister who has been leading the work on air bridges and travel safety jetted off to Spain yesterday hours before the govt decided to suddenly impose quarantine. What a bunch of jokers we have running the show

Rubbish technology again. You would think that the UK could come up with some decent apps for this kind of thing.

With regards to quarantine the government should have been advising people not to go several days ago. I have been posting on here for the last two weeks that there was something brewing in Spain. Surely they must have known.

Once the virus starts to grow exponentially you have to act fast to halt the inbound infection. I am surprised that they have acted this fast. I thought they would have made an announcement that the quarantine would start in September or some other ridiculous date in the future. It looks like they are finally getting serious.

The blanket approach is most likely due to clusters popping up in several regions now. Catalonia (NE) and Andalusia (South) were the first. Aragón, Navarra and País Vasco (Basque Country) are now having problems. It is also starting to grow in some of the cities (Barcelona, Zaragoza and Madrid). Small spikes are occuring in several regions including the Balearics and the Canary Islands. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news ... -outbreak/

The Transport Minister needs to be dropped in the next reshuffle if he travelled to Spain on holiday. That is one of the most idiotic things I have heard in the whole pandemic. I would drop a few other cabinet members as well.

And former Chief Prosecutor Nazir Afzal joked, in a reference to Dominic Cummings: “Minister Grant Shapps can presumably avoid having to quarantine on return from Spain by telling us, in PM’s Garden, that he was only in Spain:

"To get childcare, which he later found he didn’t need; to test his eye sight on his wife’s birthday; the rules just don’t apply to him.” https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/gran ... 08711.html

[UnderSeige]

I have just heard Labour's Jon Ashworth calling for the Government, i.e. us, to compensate people if they loose wages if they have to self isolate after coming back from Spain. Absolutely ridiculous. They knew the risks. No way Jose.

If I had been planning to go to Spain I would have been carefully finding out what is going on there with regards to the pandemic. The second spike has been developing for the last two weeks in line with the opening of pubs, clubs and restaurants a few weeks previously.

The government should have been advising them not to go. Failing that they should have been advising themselves. Compensation - no way. Especially not for Grant Shapps.

[NewClaret]

TUI and Easyjet are cancelling all flights to mainland Spain AND all the islands including the Canary Islands which are nowhere near Spain.

Think that is sensible.

I can’t really see why anyone would want to book a holiday abroad in current times. The risks of disruption are too high. Doesn’t matter whether it’s Spain or Leicester, lockdowns are going to be a part of life until we get a vaccine or effective treatment.

[NewClaret]

If I had been planning to go to Spain I would have been carefully finding out what is going on there with regards to the pandemic. The second spike has been developing for the last two weeks in line with the opening of pubs, clubs and restaurants a few weeks previously.

The government should have been advising them not to go. Failing that they should have been advising themselves. Compensation - no way. Especially not for Grant Shapps.

There should be no compensation at all. Boris was clear that he would reimpose restrictions urgently where necessary. If you travelled, you did so at your own risk.

Feel sorry for those that booked their holidays pre-lockdown & would have lost money by cancelling. Don’t feel sorry for anyone who has booked since.

Think the government should introduce some new rules for airlines/travel operators where people have more options to swap holidays impacted by Covid disruption though, or nobody will book a holiday again!!

[UnderSeige]

Arguably the government should have used its own pandemic plan that was adopted by those countries who dealt with it best instead of ignoring it. I don’t have the link, but those countries who experienced pandemics recently relied upon British expertise in pandemic planning, but our government ignored them.

I didn't know that the 'containment plans' of Korea, Taiwan etc were helped to be put together by British Experts. It makes you wonder what those experts were doing in February and March. I hope that they were not the ones who advised the governments brief flirtation with 'herd immunity do nothing except wash hands policy'.

[bfcjg]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/b ... d=msedgntp
Crap politicians, brilliant scientists.
Lions led by donkeys.

[Devils_Advocate]

There should be no compensation at all. Boris was clear that he would reimpose restrictions urgently where necessary. If you travelled, you did so at your own risk.

Feel sorry for those that booked their holidays pre-lockdown & would have lost money by cancelling. Don’t feel sorry for anyone who has booked since.

Think the government should introduce some new rules for airlines/travel operators where people have more options to swap holidays impacted by Covid disruption though, or nobody will book a holiday again!!

Raab was on TV today claiming employees who follow quarantine guidelines will be legally protected and be paid by their company's. Employment law experts have advised he is either lying or grossly misinformed (take your pick) and employees will not be protected.

The govt has also been encouraging people to start getting back to normal and travelling again and this is the problem that they dont know their arse from their elbow so what chance have some people got who rely on help and advice from their leaders for what is supposedly accurate and expert advice

[NewClaret]

Raab was on TV today claiming employees who follow quarantine guidelines will be legally protected and be paid by their company's. Employment law experts have advised he is either lying or grossly misinformed (take your pick) and employees will not be protected.

The govt has also been encouraging people to start getting back to normal and travelling again and this is the problem that they dont know their arse from their elbow so what chance have some people got who rely on help and advice from their leaders for what is supposedly accurate and expert advice

Point is: you cannot let this virus stop life completely. You have to return to some form of normality. To do so, you have to be able to change your policies on countries/regions/city’s quickly as outbreaks occur. At home and abroad. Govt act slowly - criticised. Govt act quickly - criticises. It’s laughable really.

Travelling during a global pandemic is a risky business and if you choose to do so, it’s at your own risk. Nothing to with “their leaders”; it’s about common sense and personal responsibility.

On the point of employment law, that can be changed very quickly so presumably what they intend to do, but in reality very few employers worth their salt would unfairly penalise employee’s, and if they did, shame on them not the government - especially since they will likely have benefited handsomely from the furlough scheme.

[Devils_Advocate]

Point is: you cannot let this virus stop life completely. You have to return to some form of normality. To do so, you have to be able to change your policies on countries/regions/city’s quickly as outbreaks occur. At home and abroad. Govt act slowly - criticised. Govt act quickly - criticises. It’s laughable really.

Travelling during a global pandemic is a risky business and if you choose to do so, it’s at your own risk. Nothing to with “their leaders”; it’s about common sense and personal responsibility.

On the point of employment law, that can be changed very quickly so presumably what they intend to do, but in reality very few employers worth their salt would unfairly penalise employee’s, and if they did, shame on them not the government - especially since they will likely have benefited handsomely from the furlough scheme.

I agree with a lot of what you say and havent been critical for a long time of the way the govt is managing the transition back to normal life

My issue is more with the way people who are embracing this spirit are being labelled morons and idiots and the lack of compassion for people who maybe dont have time or even the capability to keep abreast or understand the levels of risk involved suddenly finding themselves in what for them might be a really tough situation

You referenced the govts advice and I just pointed out their advice has been to travel to certain low impacted places which has suddenly changed overnight. This is the same govt who has given days and weeks notice for other less impacting changes suddenly effecting a massive change in policy overnight

Then to come on national TV and give misinformation about really important issues is unforgivable and just to clarify he didnt say they would make changes to the law hes said the law as it stands today protects these people - it doesnt

Finally your point about employers we may be talking about really small businesses who are on the verge of collapse as it is who cant afford to prop up the cost of govt policy (even if that policy is the right one). As for the big ones do you think people like the owner of Whetherspoons or Mike Ashley are gonna start paying their staff for being sat at home - I dont

[tiger76]

this thread was so far down the site, mind you i guess that's a good sign, as is this news.

No new virus deaths in Scotland for 11th day in row

The latest figures from the Scottish government show no new coronavirus deaths were recorded in Scotland in the last 24 hours - the 11th day in a row without any fatalities.

A total of 2,491 patients have died in Scotland after testing positive for Covid-19.

The number of new confirmed cases in Scotland rose by three from the day before, to a total of 18,554 people.

There are 270 people in hospital with confirmed coronavirus and two patients are in intensive care.

Clearly this virus is abating in Scotland, now whether that's due to the actions of the Scottish Government, or it's weakening naturally, or it's down to the seasonal influence, i guess we'll only find out in the Autumn/Winter.

But we should welcome good news well it's here.

[tiger76]

And more good news regarding a vaccine trial in the US.

Biotech company Moderna says it is beginning a phase three trial of its coronavirus vaccine candidate, after successful earlier safety trials.

In this next phase of testing, around 30,000 healthy volunteers will get two doses of the jab, 28 days apart, to see if it can protect against the pandemic virus.

The vaccine is called mRNA-1273 and it contains a small section of genetic code from coronavirus.

It will not cause the disease itself but should hopefully train the body’s immune system to recognise and fight off coronavirus infection.

Half of the volunteers will be given the real vaccine, while the other half, chosen at random, will get two shots of a saline placebo. It will take months to know if the vaccine works.

Moderna’s vaccine is not the first to enter phase three trials - the last phase of testing of a vaccine before it can be submitted to a regulatory authority for evaluation and possible approval.

Phase three testing of a coronavirus vaccine from Oxford University in the UK is already under way. There are more than 120 coronavirus vaccines in various stages of development across the world.

You'd hope even a few of these trials will bear fruit, but it won't be overnight, so we'll still have to exercise caution well we gradually return to some form of normality.

[cricketfieldclarets]

And more good news regarding a vaccine trial in the US.

Biotech company Moderna says it is beginning a phase three trial of its coronavirus vaccine candidate, after successful earlier safety trials.

In this next phase of testing, around 30,000 healthy volunteers will get two doses of the jab, 28 days apart, to see if it can protect against the pandemic virus.

The vaccine is called mRNA-1273 and it contains a small section of genetic code from coronavirus.

It will not cause the disease itself but should hopefully train the body’s immune system to recognise and fight off coronavirus infection.

Half of the volunteers will be given the real vaccine, while the other half, chosen at random, will get two shots of a saline placebo. It will take months to know if the vaccine works.

Moderna’s vaccine is not the first to enter phase three trials - the last phase of testing of a vaccine before it can be submitted to a regulatory authority for evaluation and possible approval.

Phase three testing of a coronavirus vaccine from Oxford University in the UK is already under way. There are more than 120 coronavirus vaccines in various stages of development across the world.

You'd hope even a few of these trials will bear fruit, but it won't be overnight, so we'll still have to exercise caution well we gradually return to some form of normality.

Have to hope that vaccine science and treatments continue to develop alongside a weakening virus and common sense. Here’s hoping we make as much progress in the next three months as we have the last. See no reason why not.

[NewClaret]

I agree with a lot of what you say and havent been critical for a long time of the way the govt is managing the transition back to normal life

My issue is more with the way people who are embracing this spirit are being labelled morons and idiots and the lack of compassion for people who maybe dont have time or even the capability to keep abreast or understand the levels of risk involved suddenly finding themselves in what for them might be a really tough situation

You referenced the govts advice and I just pointed out their advice has been to travel to certain low impacted places which has suddenly changed overnight. This is the same govt who has given days and weeks notice for other less impacting changes suddenly effecting a massive change in policy overnight

Then to come on national TV and give misinformation about really important issues is unforgivable and just to clarify he didnt say they would make changes to the law hes said the law as it stands today protects these people - it doesnt

Finally your point about employers we may be talking about really small businesses who are on the verge of collapse as it is who cant afford to prop up the cost of govt policy (even if that policy is the right one). As for the big ones do you think people like the owner of Whetherspoons or Mike Ashley are gonna start paying their staff for being sat at home - I dont

Some fair points. I agree in releasing lockdown the govt have given more notice on the loosening of the restrictions. In re-enforcing it (i.e. Leicester, now Spain), they’ve been much quicker. In all honesty, they should’ve reacted initially with such speed.

I think in the case of Ashley & that Wetherspoons prat, they’ll likely have to be supportive; they will both have benefitted massively from the furlough scheme & if news got out that they’re shafting employees after all that support, it would be a PR disaster. Small companies - fair point. But again the furlough scheme is still open - furlough them for two weeks.

Didn’t watch the Raab interview so I won’t comment, but if he has provided misinformation, that’s wrong. Lies is a strong word. Politicians do just get some things wrong sometimes, like we all do. Only usually we don’t have a camera pointing at us and a smart arse interviewer shouting questions at us to catch us out to further their own career.

To tell you the truth, I think the amount of time the Tories have given to the media for interviews/briefings throughout all of this should be applauded. The way the media treat them is a disgrace. I wouldn’t stand for it.

[joey13]

Some fair points. I agree in releasing lockdown the govt have given more notice on the loosening of the restrictions. In re-enforcing it (i.e. Leicester, now Spain), they’ve been much quicker. In all honesty, they should’ve reacted initially with such speed.

I think in the case of Ashley & that Wetherspoons prat, they’ll likely have to be supportive; they will both have benefitted massively from the furlough scheme & if news got out that they’re shafting employees after all that support, it would be a PR disaster. Small companies - fair point. But again the furlough scheme is still open - furlough them for two weeks.

Didn’t watch the Raab interview so I won’t comment, but if he has provided misinformation, that’s wrong. Lies is a strong word. Politicians do just get some things wrong sometimes, like we all do. Only usually we don’t have a camera pointing at us and a smart arse interviewer shouting questions at us to catch us out to further their own career.

To tell you the truth, I think the amount of time the Tories have given to the media for interviews/briefings throughout all of this should be applauded. The way the media treat them is a disgrace. I wouldn’t stand for it.

[jrgbfc]

Yeah those poor Tories having to answer a few questions. Those doctors and nurses working on the frontline have no idea how easy they've had it.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Some interesting and almost overwhelmingly positive data from the office of national statistics.

Much better info than you get from the main stream media.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... 2020-03-26

[joey13]

While Johnson warns of second wave coming in from EU , reported deaths in Spain 2 , 119 in UK yesterday
And yes the clown is still defended

[TVC15]

Another big error by Raab - I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and just say it was incompetence rather than misleading the public.
How many times does Raab need to be caught out now before he is demoted to a low profile minister of double decker buses or something similar ?
The guy is a tool.

[evensteadiereddie]

"To tell you the truth, I think the amount of time the Tories have given to the media for interviews/briefings throughout all of this should be applauded. The way the media treat them is a disgrace. I wouldn’t stand for it."


Absolute cobblers.

[Spijed]

While Johnson warns of second wave coming in from EU , reported deaths in Spain 2 , 119 in UK yesterday
And yes the clown is still defended

I've felt for sometime that the Tory strategy is damage limitation with regards to any inquiry.

[NewClaret]

"To tell you the truth, I think the amount of time the Tories have given to the media for interviews/briefings throughout all of this should be applauded. The way the media treat them is a disgrace. I wouldn’t stand for it."


Absolute cobblers.

On what basis?

Any idea how many other countries have done daily televised briefings?

[NewClaret]

While Johnson warns of second wave coming in from EU , reported deaths in Spain 2 , 119 in UK yesterday
And yes the clown is still defended

I do agree that we should have just written off this summer and kept it simple - no foreign travel.

Not to protect us from rising cases but to protect Europe from us!

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

On what basis?

Any idea how many other countries have done daily televised briefings?

Yeh those daily briefings most have been really tough for our esteemed PM and co especially having to prepare answers to rehearse all day.

[keith1879]

On what basis?

Any idea how many other countries have done daily televised briefings?

Probably none....which makes them all better informed than us because we have basically had lies spouted on a daily basis,

[dougcollins]

And more good news regarding a vaccine trial in the US.

Biotech company Moderna says it is beginning a phase three trial of its coronavirus vaccine candidate, after successful earlier safety trials.

In this next phase of testing, around 30,000 healthy volunteers will get two doses of the jab, 28 days apart, to see if it can protect against the pandemic virus.

The vaccine is called mRNA-1273 and it contains a small section of genetic code from coronavirus.

It will not cause the disease itself but should hopefully train the body’s immune system to recognise and fight off coronavirus infection.

Half of the volunteers will be given the real vaccine, while the other half, chosen at random, will get two shots of a saline placebo. It will take months to know if the vaccine works.

Moderna’s vaccine is not the first to enter phase three trials - the last phase of testing of a vaccine before it can be submitted to a regulatory authority for evaluation and possible approval.

Phase three testing of a coronavirus vaccine from Oxford University in the UK is already under way. There are more than 120 coronavirus vaccines in various stages of development across the world.

You'd hope even a few of these trials will bear fruit, but it won't be overnight, so we'll still have to exercise caution well we gradually return to some form of normality.

Ok, until Trump holds us all to ransom over the price of it.

He's hardly one to take a Global view. He's a capitalist, money to be made, fvck world health.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Sweden trend. Zero lockdown.

[dougcollins]

Aye, but there's nobody there mate. They have about 50 people per square mile, we're probably nearer 1500?

[dsr]

Aye, but there's nobody there mate. They have about 50 people per square mile, we're probably nearer 1500?

They still live in cities. The population density in populated areas is similar to ours. If nine-tenths of the country has 3 people per line of latitude while the rest has similar population density to us, you would expect the spread to be the similar under similar conditions.

[MalaysiaMo]

They still live in cities. The population density in populated areas is similar to ours. If nine-tenths of the country has 3 people per line of latitude while the rest has similar population density to us, you would expect the spread to be the similar under similar conditions.

Perhaps better to compare the situation in Sweden with that in other Scandinavian countries that did lockdown - Norway, Denmark and Finland. Not so impressive:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... e-nordics/

[cricketfieldclarets]

Perhaps better to compare the situation in Sweden with that in other Scandinavian countries that did lockdown - Norway, Denmark and Finland. Not so impressive:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... e-nordics/

The point wasn’t the volume of deaths. There’s all sorts of things to take into consideration on that. And no two countries are the same. (You could argue that the other Scandinavian countries, like those in the med were only delaying the deaths and dragging over a longer period).

The point was that the spike and subsequent crash in cases and deaths has followed a fairly predictable trajectory. And it’s likely Sweden won’t see a major second wave.

Other countries remain more vulnerable for a longer time until any vaccine arrives or the virus burns out.

It’s impossible to say which was the right strategy or not. And in more populated countries perhaps Sweden’s wouldn’t be the right approach.

But the reality is their economy hasn’t suffered as much. Life hasn’t been affected as much. Kids have still gone to school etc.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Interesting stats on Australias flu season.

They had a dramatic huge early spike in Flu season last summer (their winter).

Wonder what that might have been...

[dsr]

Interesting stats on Australias flu season.

They had a dramatic huge early spike in Flu season last summer (their winter).

Wonder what that might have been...

I know what it almost certainly was - Daily Mail sensationalism, added to by yourself.

Australia's flu season in 2019 was no worse than in 2017. That graph refers to Western Australia only. The report attached shows the types of flu as confirmed by laboratory testing with no suggestion that it was anything they hadn't seen before.

Put another way - they didn't have coronavirus in Australia in April 2019. No need to panic.

https://jglobalbiosecurity.com/articles ... 6/gbio.47/

[cricketfieldclarets]

I know what it almost certainly was - Daily Mail sensationalism, added to by yourself.

Australia's flu season in 2019 was no worse than in 2017. That graph refers to Western Australia only. The report attached shows the types of flu as confirmed by laboratory testing with no suggestion that it was anything they hadn't seen before.

Put another way - they didn't have coronavirus in Australia in April 2019. No need to panic.

https://jglobalbiosecurity.com/articles ... 6/gbio.47/

Not daily mail.

[dsr]

Not daily mail.

Whose sensationalism was it then? The first google link I found was Daily Mail.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Whose sensationalism was it then? The first google link I found was Daily Mail.

ABC News. Its not sensationalism. Just an observation. Was actually reading about the huge drop in this years flu cases in Australia.

[joey13]

Spain 5
Italy 6
Germany 4
Belgium 11
Holland 2
Portugal 3

UK 83

Remember the second wave is coming from the EU

[evensteadiereddie]

On what basis?

Any idea how many other countries have done daily televised briefings?

Not many - they didn't need to. They were quick to see the problems and quick to address them. Most of those daily "briefings", written by Cummings, and hosted by Hancock and Co. can be looked back upon with ridicule and embarrassment.
A farce, either through deceit or incompetence.
Still, you're happy - let's hope neither you nor your family have to pay the price.

[keith1879]

Sweden trend. Zero lockdown.

I have seen more than one source (sample shown) that suggests that not only did Sweden have a poorer outturn than expected in terms of deaths but that its economy has done no better either. The worst of all worlds in fact. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/busi ... virus.html

Some US states that tried to minimise lockdown seem to be suffering as well.

Now what I do find interesting is the difference between the curve of deaths and the one of cases....Sweden does seem to have something different going on there.....deaths usually follow cases fairly closely.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Spain 5
Italy 6
Germany 4
Belgium 11
Holland 2
Portugal 3

UK 83

Remember the second wave is coming from the EU

Cases are up. Deaths are down. If that continues, normality should be here sooner than we hoped.

[cricketfieldclarets]

I have seen more than one source (sample shown) that suggests that not only did Sweden have a poorer outturn than expected in terms of deaths but that its economy has done no better either. The worst of all worlds in fact. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/busi ... virus.html

Some US states that tried to minimise lockdown seem to be suffering as well.

Now what I do find interesting is the difference between the curve of deaths and the one of cases....Sweden does seem to have something different going on there.....deaths usually follow cases fairly closely.

This is another of the problems. Depending on where you read you get a different story.

[joey13]

Cases are up. Deaths are down. If that continues, normality should be here sooner than we hoped.

Not in the America’s or the Far East they aren’t

[cricketfieldclarets]

Not in the America’s or the Far East they aren’t

Daily cases in north, central and South America up

[cricketfieldclarets]

Not in the America’s or the Far East they aren’t

And deaths for those same places going down.

[cricketfieldclarets]

.

[bfcjg]

New T-cell data may point way to longer-lasting vaccines

Researchers who examined immune cells from 35 New Jersey patients recovering from COVID-19 have discovered that 90% of their foreign invader-killing T cells aim for targets other than the spike protein on the surface of the virus - the current focus of many vaccines in development. This suggests "that second-generation vaccines will need to incorporate these targets to generate long-term immunity to COVID-19," Gavin MacBeath of TScan Therapeutics told Reuters. Killer T cells, also known as cytotoxic or CD8+ T cells, clear viral infections and appear necessary for long-term immunity to coronaviruses, he explained. His team also found that "patients' CD8+ T cells recognize the same, relatively small number of targets that are unique to the novel coronavirus and don't tend to mutate, paving the way for diagnostic tests that detect immunity based on T cells," MacBeath said. The findings were reported on Monday on medRxiv ahead of peer review. (https://bit.ly/3k1OSB4)

[AndrewJB]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... y-suggests

[joey13]

And deaths for those same places going down.

You are basing this over a matter of days ,this virus will be around for years

[FactualFrank]

The R rate is at 1.02 in the South East and 1.04 in the South West, according to University of Cambridge researchers.

[Billy Balfour]

England had the highest levels of excess deaths in Europe between the end of February to the middle of June, official analysis shows.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53592881

No doubt the usual cheerleaders will be along to dismiss this with their usual half-baked 'truth'.

[bfcjg]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/russian-covid ... 47164.html
If Putin and co get vaccinated with this to show it is safe then perhaps it is the first of a few successful vaccines. Worry is if it isnt 100% successful the virus could mutate against it
Hope it works.