New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

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dsr
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by dsr » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:32 pm

So Colne has 4 new cases. They bring in extra testing units, they advertise, pleading with people to come and be tested, and for all their efforts they can find only 4 cases. And that justifies enhanced lockdown whereby we are forbidden to enter one another's gardens because of the high risk of infection.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Spiral » Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:00 am

dsr wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:32 pm
So Colne has 4 new cases. They bring in extra testing units, they advertise, pleading with people to come and be tested, and for all their efforts they can find only 4 cases. And that justifies enhanced lockdown whereby we are forbidden to enter one another's gardens because of the high risk of infection.
There appears to be over 80 cases in the borough of Pendle. As I mentioned earlier in the thread the lockdown measures have been implemented on the borough level and not the ward level, so while 4 cases in a part of Colne might not seem high, the number the govt will be looking at is the total in Pendle, and it's high enough that lockdown needs to be taken seriously.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by dsr » Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:26 am

Spiral wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:00 am
There appears to be over 80 cases in the borough of Pendle. As I mentioned earlier in the thread the lockdown measures have been implemented on the borough level and not the ward level, so while 4 cases in a part of Colne might not seem high, the number the govt will be looking at is the total in Pendle, and it's high enough that lockdown needs to be taken seriously.
It is hard to take lockdown seriously when the only reason that Colne is considered dangerous and needs to be locked down is that Ted Heath and his lot decreed that Colne Council was too small to exist.

It's the same for Barlick and Earby, only even more distant. If the powers that be want to say that Barlick and Earby should be locked down because there is a surge of cases, then fair enough - they can make a rational argument. But if the powers that be say that Barlick and Earby should be locked down because a local government official decided in 1974 they should be in Pendle, not in Craven, then how do I take it seriously?

Look at Menston. Half the village, the half nearer Bradford, is open for business because it's in the borough of Leeds. The other half, the half further away from Bradford, is locked down because it's in the borough of Bradford. This is stupid, and the powers that be know it's stupid, as does everyone else. So how do I take it seriously when the powers that be say "we want you to do something stupid that we know is stupid but we can't be bothered to take the simple action that would make sense"?

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Spiral » Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:00 am

dsr wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:26 am
It is hard to take lockdown seriously when the only reason that Colne is considered dangerous and needs to be locked down is that Ted Heath and his lot decreed that Colne Council was too small to exist.

It's the same for Barlick and Earby, only even more distant. If the powers that be want to say that Barlick and Earby should be locked down because there is a surge of cases, then fair enough - they can make a rational argument. But if the powers that be say that Barlick and Earby should be locked down because a local government official decided in 1974 they should be in Pendle, not in Craven, then how do I take it seriously?

Look at Menston. Half the village, the half nearer Bradford, is open for business because it's in the borough of Leeds. The other half, the half further away from Bradford, is locked down because it's in the borough of Bradford. This is stupid, and the powers that be know it's stupid, as does everyone else. So how do I take it seriously when the powers that be say "we want you to do something stupid that we know is stupid but we can't be bothered to take the simple action that would make sense"?
I'm always open minded to a philosophical discussion on the transitory and abstract nature borders but surely you must appreciate than in the midst of a pandemic a priority should be placed on protecting public health, and that protests against municipality zoning logic can wait for the time being?
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by dsr » Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:12 am

Spiral wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:00 am
I'm always open minded to a philosophical discussion on the transitory and abstract nature borders but surely you must appreciate than in the midst of a pandemic a priority should be placed on protecting public health, and that protests against municipality zoning logic can wait for the time being?
That isn't a protest about municipal zoning.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Spiral » Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:16 am

dsr wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:12 am
That isn't a protest about municipal zoning.
I know you don't like lockdown (who does?) but if it's regional lockdown you're protesting then you're expressing it as a consequence of zoning logic, so it is.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Claretmatt4 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:56 am

Is there meant to be an update on this today?

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by DCWat » Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:01 am

Yes, today apparently.

An article I read yesterday suggested there wouldn’t be much change (for West Yorkshire at least).

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by DCWat » Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:01 am

Yes, today apparently.

An article I read yesterday suggested there wouldn’t be much change (for West Yorkshire at least).
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Burnleyareback2 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:27 am

If anything I be amazed if the restrictions don’t get worse in Pendle & Burnley today.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Grumps » Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:33 am

Move the testing centres to Clitheroe for example, the figures there would go up, Burnley would come down
I believe the infection rates will be the same throughout the country, but only show when they do the mass, no symptoms required, testing.
These people testing positive, aren't becoming ill, hospital admissions are still extremely low.
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Spike » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:57 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:59 pm
Loyalty - believe or its hell for you, they've also converted through threats of, or used, violence.

Money - pretty sure churches hand out the bowls at most Sunday services and Yank Evangelics are always after cash for their latest jet or mansion.
Churches are also tax exempt in a lot of countries...

Harm - Christianity has harmed millions over the centuries, fought wars (crusades), enslaved, tortured and murdered people (Spanish inquisition anyone), let's not forget good old fashioned heresy/blasphemy laws.

You can sit there and tell me Christianity isn't that bad, or as bad as Islam, but it has been and still is in many ways.
Could I also suggest you watch the fact based film Spotlight, it's on Netflix, which also shows how the Catholic Church protects child abusing clergy over the children.
We complain about Muslims abusing white girls and using religion as an excuse but the church is equally as culpable
Everyone is entitled to their views

I am a Christian

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by 1968claret » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:01 am

Grumps wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:33 am
Move the testing centres to Clitheroe for example, the figures there would go up, Burnley would come down
I believe the infection rates will be the same throughout the country, but only show when they do the mass, no symptoms required, testing.
These people testing positive, aren't becoming ill, hospital admissions are still extremely low.
I thought local lockdowns were decided by rising infection rates rather than pure number of positive tests?

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Grumps » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:09 am

1968claret wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:01 am
I thought local lockdowns were decided by rising infection rates rather than pure number of positive tests?
If you don't test, they don't rise. The people testing positive aren't turning up at hospital ill, they are being tested because local leaders are urging everyone to get tested. The virus appears to be out there, undetected in most cases unless tested. Wherever you test, the rates will rise, which suggests the levels of infection are the same everywhere, but only highlighted when you test the general public
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Mala591 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:10 am

It might make more sense (to the affected communities) if local lockdowns were based on admissions to hospital (severe Covid symptoms) rather than random positive tests.
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Grumps » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:41 am

Mala591 wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:10 am
It might make more sense (to the affected communities) if local lockdowns were based on admissions to hospital (severe Covid symptoms) rather than random positive tests.
In which case East lancs wouldn't be in lockdown
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Wile E Coyote » Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:00 pm

its plain enough, people needed to heed the guidelines from the off, in our area and others elsewhere they ignored all the sensible info from day one, and continue to do so. Result is we all have to endure prolonged lockdown measures due to a minority of selfish buffoons.
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by jackmiggins » Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:41 pm

Grumps wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:09 am
If you don't test, they don't rise. The people testing positive aren't turning up at hospital ill, they are being tested because local leaders are urging everyone to get tested. The virus appears to be out there, undetected in most cases unless tested. Wherever you test, the rates will rise, which suggests the levels of infection are the same everywhere, but only highlighted when you test the general public

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by jackmiggins » Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:44 pm

Said with true Trumpist vanity - well done. Best have a lie down now, before your carer arrives.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Grumps » Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:50 pm

Nurse, nurse, someone's left the drugs cabinet open!!!
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by jackmiggins » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:04 pm

Grumps wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:50 pm
Nurse, nurse, someone's left the drugs cabinet open!!!
Quite

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Quicknick » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:25 pm

Spiral wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:00 am
There appears to be over 80 cases in the borough of Pendle. As I mentioned earlier in the thread the lockdown measures have been implemented on the borough level and not the ward level, so while 4 cases in a part of Colne might not seem high, the number the govt will be looking at is the total in Pendle, and it's high enough that lockdown needs to be taken seriously.
Out of those 80 cases, how many are serious? That's the real point.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Quicknick » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:26 pm

Grumps wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:09 am
If you don't test, they don't rise. The people testing positive aren't turning up at hospital ill, they are being tested because local leaders are urging everyone to get tested. The virus appears to be out there, undetected in most cases unless tested. Wherever you test, the rates will rise, which suggests the levels of infection are the same everywhere, but only highlighted when you test the general public
Most sensible post on here.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by jackmiggins » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:33 pm

Deluded

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Quicknick » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:34 pm

jackmiggins wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:33 pm
Deluded
I know you are.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:34 pm

Starting to look like someone fancies grumps
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Grumps » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:36 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:34 pm
Starting to look like someone fancies grumps
At least its not my wife, like some on here :lol: :lol:
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:40 pm

Spike wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:57 am
Everyone is entitled to their views

I am a Christian
Yes we are and we shouldn't live in fear of being assaulted or worse for not believing in the sky fairy.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by jackmiggins » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:41 pm

Quicknick wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:34 pm
I know you are.
Pure wit. You’ll be quoted for ever more.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by dsr » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:44 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:40 pm
Yes we are and we shouldn't live in fear of being assaulted or worse for not believing in the sky fairy.
I think you'll find that setting out ot be grossly offensive to Christians (as you have just done) is a lot less likely to get you killed than doing the same to football fans. Try going into a church and saying what you just said, and then going into a crowd of Leeds United fans and saying some equivalent, and you will find the football fans less tolerant than the Christians.

Why are you so offensive anyway? Have you had a bad experience with Christians in the past, or is it just who you are?

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Grumps » Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:15 pm

Quicknick wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:25 pm
Out of those 80 cases, how many are serious? That's the real point.
Likewise, Blackburn where restrictions have been in place longer, with higher infection rates yet nobody is ending up in hospital. The risk of younger people passing it on to the more elderly hasn't happened, or if it has, not making them seriously ill.
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by JohnDearyMe » Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:21 pm

Grumps wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:15 pm
Likewise, Blackburn where restrictions have been in place longer, with higher infection rates yet nobody is ending up in hospital. The risk of younger people passing it on to the more elderly hasn't happened, or if it has, not making them seriously ill.
It'd be interesting to see data on the ages of people who have tested positive but i don't know if that's published?

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Grumps » Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:25 pm

JohnDearyMe wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:21 pm
It'd be interesting to see data on the ages of people who have tested positive but i don't know if that's published?
The reports in the papers say the younger end.. 25 to 40.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by JohnDearyMe » Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:34 pm

Grumps wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:25 pm
The reports in the papers say the younger end.. 25 to 40.
Thanks, interesting. Wonder if these people are consciously happy to meet up with their peers without social distancing but are making efforts to distance from others, especially older people?

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Grumps » Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:41 pm

JohnDearyMe wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:34 pm
Thanks, interesting. Wonder if these people are consciously happy to meet up with their peers without social distancing but are making efforts to distance from others, especially older people?
Very little social distancing both in and out of the home from what I've witnessed personally
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by bfcjg » Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:38 pm

I am sticking to the letter of the law TBH hard not seeing grandkids at home but met up at a distance in park. Bizarre that parks ok but garden not however it removes temptation to go inside. Hopefully will end soon.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:39 pm

dsr wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:44 pm
I think you'll find that setting out ot be grossly offensive to Christians (as you have just done) is a lot less likely to get you killed than doing the same to football fans. Try going into a church and saying what you just said, and then going into a crowd of Leeds United fans and saying some equivalent, and you will find the football fans less tolerant than the Christians.

Why are you so offensive anyway? Have you had a bad experience with Christians in the past, or is it just who you are?
I'm happy to talk about all religions tbh, they've spent millenia murdering people who won't follow their false gods, centuries abusing children, enslaving, torturing etc all in the name of their false gods.
Using fear to keep people Worshipping (hell for non-believers).
I can say exactly the same about Islam in the interest of fairness and I do regularly.

They've yet to provide a single shred of evidence for the existence of their God and you're accusing me of being offensive, because that makes real sense.

As for Leeds fans, everyone I've ever met has been willing to have a decent chat.
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by dsr » Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:03 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:39 pm
They've yet to provide a single shred of evidence for the existence of their God and you're accusing me of being offensive, because that makes real sense.
There's more contemporary evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ as there is for the existence of Julius Caesar. You might not believe in the evidence, but to say it isn't there is nonsense.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Quicknick » Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:33 am

dsr wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:03 am
There's more contemporary evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ as there is for the existence of Julius Caesar. You might not believe in the evidence, but to say it isn't there is nonsense.
Two mythical JCs, then.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:28 am

dsr wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:03 am
There's more contemporary evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ as there is for the existence of Julius Caesar. You might not believe in the evidence, but to say it isn't there is nonsense.
I'm not disputing the existence of Jesus though, just the existence of God.

He was just a bloke who was clearly a good orator and his mates built upon his legacy after he died.
The Shroud is a fake though, that's been proven a couple of times now but religious folk won't listen.
Islam accepts Jesus was a prophet of God, but it doesn't accept he was the son of god.

There is no proof of the existence of a god, there never has been.
Gods were created to explain away things like natural occurances (thunder, earthquakes, volcanos etc) and to control people through fear/reward.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by 1968claret » Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:58 am

Grumps wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:09 am
If you don't test, they don't rise. The people testing positive aren't turning up at hospital ill, they are being tested because local leaders are urging everyone to get tested. The virus appears to be out there, undetected in most cases unless tested. Wherever you test, the rates will rise, which suggests the levels of infection are the same everywhere, but only highlighted when you test the general public
Again, you are missing the point. It is infection rates not numbers that are used.
So now that we are testing more people, in particular those not showing symptoms, you get a truer idea of the rate of infections. So more tests might mean more cases identified but it doesn’t mean that it artificially increases the infection rate. In fact as we test more people without symptoms the opposite could be true.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Grumps » Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:10 pm

1968claret wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:58 am
Again, you are missing the point. It is infection rates not numbers that are used.
So now that we are testing more people, in particular those not showing symptoms, you get a truer idea of the rate of infections. So more tests might mean more cases identified but it doesn’t mean that it artificially increases the infection rate. In fact as we test more people without symptoms the opposite could be true.
Not missing the point at all
What do you think would happen if you went to a town low down on the infection rate league table and opened 3 testing centres, no symptoms required... Their rates would increase. The infection will be the same throughout the country but is only shown when you test.
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Mala591 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:12 pm

It's possible that 'very small doses' of the virus are being transmitted between individuals which result in a positive test but doesn't go on to develop into serious illness. Good news if this is actually what is happening.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:23 pm

Good news cos although scientists (pah) are "claiming" the R number is back above 1, Johnson has just announced that if you live in a poor area his post code algorithm will simply downgrade your local R number to 0.5
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Spiral » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:09 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:23 pm
Good news cos although scientists (pah) are "claiming" the R number is back above 1, Johnson has just announced that if you live in a poor area his post code algorithm will simply downgrade your local R number to 0.5
Without having looked at the news today and this being the first I'm hearing about that, it's rather unsettling that I can't tell if this is a joke or a policy.

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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by 1968claret » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:56 pm

Grumps wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:10 pm
Not missing the point at all
What do you think would happen if you went to a town low down on the infection rate league table and opened 3 testing centres, no symptoms required... Their rates would increase. The infection will be the same throughout the country but is only shown when you test.
Sorry, not getting your logic? Why would their infection rate automatically increase?
The current infection rate will be being estimated via various algorithms probably also linked to actual infections, hospital admissions, area demographics.

So if 1000 people go and get tested who don’t have symptoms and say just 1 tests positive. They would then have a low rate which is likely to be below the guesstimated one.
Surely having more tests to get a far better idea of spread is a good thing?

dsr
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by dsr » Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:55 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:28 am
I'm not disputing the existence of Jesus though, just the existence of God.

He was just a bloke who was clearly a good orator and his mates built upon his legacy after he died.
The Shroud is a fake though, that's been proven a couple of times now but religious folk won't listen.
Islam accepts Jesus was a prophet of God, but it doesn't accept he was the son of god.

There is no proof of the existence of a god, there never has been.
Gods were created to explain away things like natural occurances (thunder, earthquakes, volcanos etc) and to control people through fear/reward.
Now you're changing the question. Of course there is no proof either way that God existed or that God created the earth. As the scientists put it, more or less, the universe may have "just happened".

But there is significant evidence that Jesus existed and was the Son of God; whether you choose to believe the evidence or not is up to you.

dsr
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by dsr » Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:58 pm

1968claret wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:56 pm
Sorry, not getting your logic? Why would their infection rate automatically increase?
The current infection rate will be being estimated via various algorithms probably also linked to actual infections, hospital admissions, area demographics.

So if 1000 people go and get tested who don’t have symptoms and say just 1 tests positive. They would then have a low rate which is likely to be below the guesstimated one.
Surely having more tests to get a far better idea of spread is a good thing?
If a town has 10,000 people living there and they test 1,000 people to find 1 positive test, then they say 1 in 10,000 has the virus. So if they then go on to test everyone in town and find that 10 people have the virus, then they say 10 in 10,000 has the virus.

Of course, the number was 10 in 10,000 all along - all that the extra testing did was find more cases. (And all the extra cases they found were people who didn't know they had it anyway.)

Claretmatt4
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Re: New North of England Lockdown Laws coming into force on 5th August

Post by Claretmatt4 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:02 pm

dsr wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:55 pm
But there is significant evidence that Jesus existed and was the Son of God; whether you choose to believe the evidence or not is up to you.
Is there?

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