Extinction Rebellion

[gandhisflipflop]

Usual suspect reverting to the same boring drivel to try and drive home years of meaningless pontification and point scoring, yet still get it wrong with resounding monotony, resorting to the deflecting tactics of the very people they have abused time and time again.

Is this aimed at myself? If not then I apologise. If so then I can assure you that I haven't abused anyone. I respect each viewpoint even if it's one I don't agree with. I respect university students as a lot work incredibly hard for their degrees. I feel that politically, it could be more fairly represented and that isn't the students fault.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

49% of teachers declared their intention to vote Labour at the last election.
The Teachers unions usually back Labour.

Tories dropped to 3rd choice in voting behind Labour and Lib Dems.
1 in 4 teachers voted tory it's believed.

When I was at high school my history teacher was a massive Thatcher fan and would share his personal political views in lessons.
That was 25yrs ago and its probably safe to assume a lot of teachers/lecturers behave the same in this day and age.

[KateR]

Is this aimed at myself? If not then I apologise. If so then I can assure you that I haven't abused anyone. I respect each viewpoint even if it's one I don't agree with. I respect university students as a lot work incredibly hard for their degrees. I feel that politically, it could be more fairly represented and that isn't the students fault.

Thank you for asking, no it was absolutely not, in any way shape or form, aimed at you, I was more referring to the issue around "race", when it is supposed to be a thread on XR.

[Rileybobs]

It's a term I use loosely to get the point across that it is my belief that universities and colleges are pushing a liberal agenda. Again, it isn't just me who thinks that. I saw one instace in college where my particular college wanted to get students to vote in an upcoming local election, they had green, labour, lib Dems and no Tory. I didn't see how the students in the room could could make a fair enough decision on who they were going to vote for when all major parties didn't have the opportunity to speak. That's one personal experience.

Thanks for the example. I don’t know what you mean by they didn’t have Tory but I’m presuming you mean they didn’t have a representative? Was this event organised by the college or by students of the college? Was the lack of a conservative representative a conscious choice of the college or because none of the students wanted to represent that party? If lecturers/tutors are pushing a liberal agenda, which you haven’t provided any evidence of, then is this their personal ‘agenda’ or that of the institution?

Despite this single, and fairly vague, example of an experience in college, I don’t see how you can substantiate your claim that universities are ‘indoctrination factories’. I spent 7 years at university and in that time cannot think of a single instance of political persuasion from any of my tutors. Is your hunch more accurate than my experience?

[gandhisflipflop]

Thanks for the example. I don’t know what you mean by they didn’t have Tory but I’m presuming you mean they didn’t have a representative? Was this event organised by the college or by students of the college? Was the lack of a conservative representative a conscious choice of the college or because none of the students wanted to represent that party? If lecturers/tutors are pushing a liberal agenda, which you haven’t provided any evidence of, then is this their personal ‘agenda’ or that of the institution?

Despite this single, and fairly vague, example of an experience in college, I don’t see how you can substantiate your claim that universities are ‘indoctrination factories’. I spent 7 years at university and in that time cannot think of a single instance of political persuasion from any of my tutors. Is your hunch more accurate than my experience?

It was an event organised by the college itself whereby local MPs came down to give their pitch as to why they should vote for them. It is my belief that it was a conscious choice by the college not to have a representative by the Tory party.

It is obvious to myself that the political spectrum across colleges and universities is very one sided. As said above in a previous post I really don't believe that is the fault of the students but I do ask myself why that is. Now if they want to go out and vote left wing parties, that is fine as it their right to do so. The real concern however is the increasing lack of tolerance to another point of view, which can come in many forms from patronising the opposition (which has happened to myself even on this messageboard) right through to violent protests.

[gandhisflipflop]

Thank you for asking, no it was absolutely not, in any way shape or form, aimed at you, I was more referring to the issue around "race", when it is supposed to be a thread on XR.

Fair enough KateR, thanks for the clarification.

[Swizzlestick]

Thank you for asking, no it was absolutely not, in any way shape or form, aimed at you, I was more referring to the issue around "race", when it is supposed to be a thread on XR.

How do you not understand how discussions work?

They are by their very nature fluid and can often branch out into alternative view points. They're not static, liner interactions - it would be pretty dull if they were. If anything, this thread has stayed reasonably on topic, as the underlying debate concerns the 'white privilege' that XR do or do not gain from. Additionally, their blocking of printing presses of national newspapers sparks an important underlying debate about press freedom. If you have an issue with that, just don't contribute to the thread (which has actually been quite informative) or start your own thread with some clear ground rules you expect to see in any forthcoming debate thereon.

[KateR]

How do you not understand how discussions work?

They are by their very nature fluid and can often branch out into alternative view points. They're not static, liner interactions - it would be pretty dull if they were. If anything, this thread has stayed reasonably on topic, as the underlying debate concerns the 'white privilege' that XR do or do not gain from. Additionally, their blocking of printing presses of national newspapers sparks an additional underlying debate about press freedom. If you have an issue with that, just don't contribute to the thread (which has actually been quite informative) or start your own thread with some clear ground rules you expect to see in any forthcoming debate thereon.

try taking your own advice

[Swizzlestick]

try taking your own advice

My advice about what? I have no issues with the thread.

[Rileybobs]

It was an event organised by the college itself whereby local MPs came down to give their pitch as to why they should vote for them. It is my belief that it was a conscious choice by the college not to have a representative by the Tory party.

It is obvious to myself that the political spectrum across colleges and universities is very one sided. As said above in a previous post I really don't believe that is the fault of the students but I do ask myself why that is. Now if they want to go out and vote left wing parties, that is fine as it their right to do so. The real concern however is the increasing lack of tolerance to another point of view, which can come in many forms from patronising the opposition (which has happened to myself even on this messageboard) right through to violent protests.

I think that’s still thin ground on which to make a claim that universities are indoctrination factories. Particularly as it seems that you don’t have any experience of universities, unless you’ve do but haven’t mentioned.

I don’t doubt for one minute that the majority of teaching staff in universities have political leanings towards the left. But I have never experienced those political views being thrust upon me, and even if they were that would be a product of the tutor, not the university itself.

It just seems like a baseless claim to me, and one that’s really not helpful.

[KateR]

My advice about what? I have no issues with the thread.

of course you wouldn't have would you now that the thread has been hijacked, you're one of those I was talking about, you know, what you suggested, providing an alternative view, but your interpretation of your own advice is I should go start another thread.

I'm sure you will be glad when it get's locked because of the way you always take any single thread almost. Left/Right, race, bait Ringo and off we go again, thread after thread

[gandhisflipflop]

I think that’s still thin ground on which to make a claim that universities are indoctrination factories. Particularly as it seems that you don’t have any experience of universities, unless you’ve do but haven’t mentioned.

I don’t doubt for one minute that the majority of teaching staff in universities have political leanings towards the left. But I have never experienced those political views being thrust upon me, and even if they were that would be a product of the tutor, not the university itself.

It just seems like a baseless claim to me, and one that’s really not helpful.

Indoctrination factories is probably too strong description and will retract that statement upon reflection. I do however feel that my points made above it is a massive problem at the moment.

[Swizzlestick]

of course you wouldn't have would you now that the thread has been hijacked, you're one of those I was talking about, you know, what you suggested, providing an alternative view, but your interpretation of your own advice is I should go start another thread.

I'm sure you will be glad when it get's locked because of the way you always take any single thread almost. Left/Right, race, bait Ringo and off we go again, thread after thread

Ah, so because the thread isn't conforming to your preset view on things it's been 'hijacked'. What nonsense. Ringo posts multiple times on threads, in combative style with different fonts etc and when people respond to that, it's 'baiting'? How very myopic.

And my view on the thread is that I'm intrigued by XR - I don't agree with their stance, but they certainly provoke debate, about a variety of issues, which is a good thing in my opinion. You have a problem with that, but there we are.

[KateR]

Ah, so because the thread isn't conforming to your preset view on things it's been 'hijacked'. What nonsense. Ringo posts multiple times on threads, in combative style with different fonts etc and when people respond to that, it's 'baiting'? How very myopic.

And my view on the thread is that I'm intrigued by XR - I don't agree with their stance, but they certainly provoke debate, about a variety of issues, which is a good thing in my opinion. You have a problem with that, but there we are.

so you want to debate but anyone who has an alternative view to you is talking nonsense, I am more than willing to listen but you don't, so there we are.

What single point of debate have you actually offered regarding XR and your intrigue, I am certainly lost in that area, having to keep answering your none relevant comments and insults you hurl in order to try and justify yourself. Maybe you could go back to my post that was actually about XR and try to actually make a comment, agreeing or not but without your childish insults. Perhaps offering thoughts that people can review/revert.

[AndrewJB]

The majority of people in the uk are white. I say that because those using the racist term ",white privilege" seem to want to boil it down to the colour of people's skin.

What does majority privilege mean? . You still dont seem to have considered it. Below you? You don't seem to answer that. "Even after the concept has been explained" to you dont seem to be able to put the pitch fork down and comprehend?

Is “majority privilege” a theory you picked up from American rightwing radio? Where they foster your hate and anger by persuading you that you’re actually the victim, and black people have been living it large?

[claretonthecoast1882]

Bit of a poor effort from the scrubbers stopping newspapers getting out. Can't they go back to trying to prevent people getting to work.

Watching them get launched of the top of tubes was at least entertaining. Seems they quickly moved on to targets that won't give them a bit back, there's a shock

[evensteadiereddie]

I think their latest gripe was with newspaper owners and publishers hence the protests being held at various newspaper owners' publishing sites.............

[Venkys4eva]

Andrew Lawrence as a fantastic take on everything... funny as hell

https://youtu.be/XuBg2aVFtCo

[evensteadiereddie]

49% of teachers declared their intention to vote Labour at the last election.
The Teachers unions usually back Labour.

Tories dropped to 3rd choice in voting behind Labour and Lib Dems.
1 in 4 teachers voted tory it's believed.

When I was at high school my history teacher was a massive Thatcher fan and would share his personal political views in lessons.
That was 25yrs ago and its probably safe to assume a lot of teachers/lecturers behave the same in this day and age.

Is it ?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Is it ?

Yes actually it is.
People like to share their political views, whether it's with friends or at work.
It's natural, especially with everything that's gone on in recent years.

[evensteadiereddie]

Don't be daft.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Don't be daft.

What's daft about it?

Teachers were doing it when I was at school, they were doing it before and I know for a fact they've been doing it at my sons high school.

It isn't a giant leap to suggest that Uni lecturers are also doing it.

[LeadBelly]

Andrew Lawrence as a fantastic take on everything... funny as hell

https://youtu.be/XuBg2aVFtCo

I find this guy very good at taking the p*** out of wokism. Doubt he'll get much employment at the BBC though, especially after his very funny p-take on them (re "The Proms" fiasco) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR4OTdC ... ewLawrence

[ClaretAndJew]

What's daft about it?

Teachers were doing it when I was at school, they were doing it before and I know for a fact they've been doing it at my sons high school.

It isn't a giant leap to suggest that Uni lecturers are also doing it.

The lecturers at the Uni I am at make it a point to never discuss politics and suggest that there might even be implications for them if they do.

[ChrisG]

The lecturers at the Uni I am at make it a point to never discuss politics and suggest that there might even be implications for them if they do.

Yeah, I graduated from Salford a couple of years ago and never heard anything political from any of my lecturers. Barely enough time to talk about the subject in hand, let alone to go off on a tangent.

[Venkys4eva]

I find this guy very good at taking the p*** out of wokism. Doubt he'll get much employment at the BBC though, especially after his very funny p-take on them (re "The Proms" fiasco) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR4OTdC ... ewLawrence

Thats a funny one I'd not seen before! This guy should be on TV

[martin_p]

I find this guy very good at taking the p*** out of wokism. Doubt he'll get much employment at the BBC though, especially after his very funny p-take on them (re "The Proms" fiasco) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR4OTdC ... ewLawrence

Well his Wikipedia page shows that most of his tv and radio work has been for the BBC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_L ... (comedian)

[LeadBelly]

Well his Wikipedia page shows that most of his tv and radio work has been for the BBC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_L ... (comedian)

Nothing on BBC TV since 2011 there, nothing on BBC radio since 2015.
Around 2015 he had big spats with some other favoured BBC comics (Dara Ó Briain and Frankie Boyle mainly) since when his BBC work has been non-existent. He'd described establishment comedians as "'aging, balding, fat men, ethnic comedians and women-posing-as-comedians'. He was pretty much "cancelled"; partly for being "on the right" and partly for being a bit outrageous.

[martin_p]

Nothing on BBC TV since 2011 there, nothing on BBC radio since 2015.
Around 2015 he had big spats with some other favoured BBC comics (Dara Ó Briain and Frankie Boyle mainly) since when his BBC work has been non-existent. He'd described establishment comedians as "'aging, balding, fat men, ethnic comedians and women-posing-as-comedians'. He was pretty much "cancelled"; partly for being "on the right" and partly for being a bit outrageous.

But no one else has employed him either, apart from a solitary Sky documentary, the it isn’t the BBC that’s the problem.

[RingoMcCartney]

So to sum up, you're upset because people don't say majority privilege but you refuse to explain what you believe majority privilege is.

The term "white privilege " is reprehensible. Not because some white people dont have privileges. Most people, regardless of their skin colour, can be seen to have privilege. It's a privilege to be young- you have potential. It's a privilege to be old - you may have accrued wealth. Living now as opposed to during periods of famine is a privilege. Geography - not living in countries where extreme weather allows a more reliable source of food.

The idea that you can target a particular ethnic group, with a collective crime. Regardless of the specific innocence or guilt of the constituent elements of that group. Is nothing more than abhorrent racism.

Let's see what this narrative can lead to.

The kulaks were successful farmers in 1920s / 30s Soviet Russia. They were the most productive part of the agriculture sector in Russia. They were virtually, all killed, raped or robbed by those calling themselves Socialists, who insisted that, cos theyd showed signs of wealth, they were criminals. One of the consequences of the prosecution of the Kulaks was the deaths of approximately 6 million Ukrainians through starvation.

The idea of collectively held guilt , whether its being apportioned to the individual , at the legal level ( 1920/30sSoviet Union). Or as a philosophical principle- "white privilege" is extremely dangerous.

It's precisely the sort of language that people who either looking for trouble, or fermenting trouble would push.

Now the term "majority privilege" is a far more accurate non-racist way to describe what we in the West and all over the globe experience. And you've touched upon it.

The way a country, any country, any where in the world is run, socioeconomicaly, must be beneficial to the majority and give them "privilege" to varying degrees. Otherwise, that particular way of doing things wont last.

Let's look at Japan. I think I'm right in saying that , monocultural Japan is demographically around 93% Japanese. The way the economy is run must benefit the majority who are Japanese. Where's the accusation and the attempt to apportion collective guilt on the majority having "Japanese privilege" or because it's been boiled down to simple skin colour, ",Yellow privilege"

You can say the same about India. The majority of Indians happen to have brown skin. Their economy benefits the majority , to varying degrees, and gives them "privilege" . Again, no attempt to apportion collective guilt on the majority having "Indian privilege" or because it's been boiled down to simple skin colour, "brown privilege"


In Europe the majority of the population are white. They dont benefit from "privilege" from the way their countries operate on a socioeconomic level because their skin colour iswhite . They enjoy privilege because, just luke their counterparts in Japan or India, they're the majority

The term "white privilege" is divisive Othering. Its setting one ethnic group against others. Its resentment fuelling finger pointing and is saying that one homogeneous ethnic groups status has only been achieved at expense of others.

A cursory glance at 20th century history will show you that. The application of guilt to the individuals of a group, some of the characteristics of that group which is based on their racial identity, leads to a very , very dark place.

[martin_p]

Ah, another copy and paste job rather than answer your question.

[elwaclaret]

The post modern reading is of “truths” rather than truth...

Lecturers are at great pains to offer a range of readings, at least in Humanities. Certainly at the higher levels, recording of lectures is a barred to prevent any quotations being used out of the context it is intended....

It is one reason I smile reading the misrepresentations often banded about on these boards.... you can say anything in a university seminar... so long as you can back up your comment with sound evidence, and do not spit your dummy out if your arguments are dissected and disproved by alternative reading and evidence...

Bit different than people imagine, and in fairness I experienced of my first time at Uni... far far better levels of teaching these days. At least in the humanities.

[RingoMcCartney]

You still haven’t explained how your ‘majority privilege’ theory explains why women have traditionally done so badly out of governments or how a tiny percentage of the population (the very rich) seem to do so well.

And how did ‘majority privilege’ work in South Africa before about 1991?

It didnt! The Apartheid system was the definition of "minority privilege, " the polar opposite of majority privilege. The socioeconomic structure gave privilege to the white minority. Eventually the majority turned it round so the majority got privilege. That's why it came to and end.

[RingoMcCartney]

Is “majority privilege” a theory you picked up from American rightwing radio? Where they foster your hate and anger by persuading you that you’re actually the victim, and black people have been living it large?

No. Its simply common sense.

And you've taken your paranoia about people who hold a different world view to you into a whole new Walter Mittyesque world! "American rightwing radio"

Its laughable but theres a serious side to your attitude AndrewJB. A very serious side. You said this recently and there's a revealing and deeply sinister undercurrent to the opinion you're expressing.

The Conservative Party pays hundreds, if not thousands of people to support it on Twitter, and I’ve sometimes wondered if they get paid extra for venturing out into other social media, such is the absence of shame some posters have in pushing their message.

It's clear that you believe that anyone who doesn't agree with the left wing orthodoxy that you yourself push, should feel "shame" for doing so! You're bewildered by the "abense of shame" you feel they should have !! For the crime of having a differing view to you.

In that one single, oozing with intolerance, sentence. You sum up succinctly, The Lefts oppressive , voice and opinion silencing , attitude, to anyone who dares disagree with them.

It then materialises in the, Orwellian, shutting down of newspapers by the anarchist/Marxist mob , Extinction Rebellion.

The Left -

Claim to LOVE diversity.

They HATE diversity of opinion

[martin_p]

No. Its simply common sense.

And you've taken your paranoia about people who hold a different world view to you into a whole new Walter Mittyesque world! "American rightwing radio"

Its laughable but theres a serious side to your attitude AndrewJB. A very serious side. You said this recently and there's a revealing and deeply sinister undercurrent to the opinion you're expressing.



It's clear that you believe that anyone who doesn't agree with the left wing orthodoxy that you yourself push, should feel "shame" for doing so! You're bewildered by the "abense of shame" you feel they should have !! For the crime of having a differing view to you.

In that one single, oozing with intolerance, sentence. You sum up succinctly, The Lefts oppressive , voice and opinion silencing , attitude, to anyone who dares disagree with them.

It then materialises in the, Orwellian, shutting down of newspapers by the anarchist/Marxist mob , Extinction Rebellion.

The Left -

Claim to LOVE diversity.

They HATE diversity of opinion

Which paper was ‘shut down’?

[RingoMcCartney]

Which paper was ‘shut down’?

Oh dear. Rather than attempt to defend the Left's clear intolerance of differing views. You decide to nitpick about my use of "shut down" . It's almost as if you've no arguement and prefer to pretend that when it came to what newspapers people should or shouldn't be allowed to read over the weekend. Somebody made Marxists, at Extinction Rebellion, God.

[martin_p]

Oh dear. Rather than attempt to defend the Left's clear intolerance of differing views. You decide to nitpick about my use of "shut down" . It's almost as if you've no arguement and prefer to pretend that when it came to what newspapers people should or shouldn't be allowed to read over the weekend. Somebody made Extinction Rebellion god.

People should read what they want to, but need to stop getting so jumpy when they’re pulled up for talking ********.