Your mate expected “ irony or subversive meaning “ at a Chubby Brown gig ! Perhaps a bit like going to watch Nish Kumar ( I know ..but still ) and being disappointed he didn’t do any “ p*** jokes”claptrappers_union wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:33 amQuite possibly - he's the only comedian of that type I've seen live though.
My friend bought tickets to see Roy Chubby Brown in Oswaldtwistle with the rose-tinted specs of watching his old VHS tapes as a young teenager. We'd share the video around the class of Chubs performing stage saying words like 'minge' and 'fanny' - which as schoolboys we used to find hilarious.
When he went to the show though, he said it was like EDL Central with fifty-year-old men jumping up and down in their seats when he made some 'jokes' about the migrant crisis. He expected the jokes to have a sense of irony or subversive meaning - but no... Immigrants are thieves, Asians stink of curry and women are fat... as simple as that. Well funny...
Jim Davidson
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Re: Jim Davidson
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Re: Jim Davidson
Yes, probably time to retire when you're in a double act with John Virgo and Virgo's the "funny" one.claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:54 amHis best work was BIg Break and that was below average
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Re: Jim Davidson
Quite a few times over the years I've heard/read him say that it's an act and that's all it is. He takes the p1ss out of disabled people, but thinks a lot about them and it's purely for entertainment and his audience.SammyBoy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:20 pm10 years ago when I was at Uni, me and my mate used to find it funny to get stoned and watch Roy Chubby Brown DVDs. Sounds kind of douchey to watch something ironically and laugh at it rather than with it but it was hilarious to us none the less.
It was interesting when we watched the "extras" on one DVD that Brown seemed to genuinely loathe his audience, and at one point worked himself into a rage whilst backstage about the mindless interruptions he had to deal with throughout the set. It sort of made me question whether he actually believes the distasteful stuff he says, or if he just does it because he knows there's good money in pedalling it to the people who buy the tickets.
So with regards to questioning whether he actually believes the distasteful things he says, I'd say he doesn't. It was all for his audience.
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Re: Jim Davidson
I remember watching a documentary about Roy Chubby Brown (real name: Royston Vasey - yep, that's where it comes from - hence why he plays the Mayor in League of Gentlemen) - and he came across exactly as you say. He is in a niche market these days though, times are changing.SammyBoy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:20 pm10 years ago when I was at Uni, me and my mate used to find it funny to get stoned and watch Roy Chubby Brown DVDs. Sounds kind of douchey to watch something ironically and laugh at it rather than with it but it was hilarious to us none the less.
It was interesting when we watched the "extras" on one DVD that Brown seemed to genuinely loathe his audience, and at one point worked himself into a rage whilst backstage about the mindless interruptions he had to deal with throughout the set. It sort of made me question whether he actually believes the distasteful stuff he says, or if he just does it because he knows there's good money in pedalling it to the people who buy the tickets.
What does worry me though is that 'free speech' is seen as becoming a 'right-wing' thing... the 'its what you're are really thinking though' approach isn't helpful, but especially in comedy where some comedians don't put any content into their jokes.
Then we see the likes of Katie Hopkins using her status to give a social commentary, it's all without empathy, ideas, research or alternate perspective... that annoys me more than anything - it's just about winning arguments and getting likes. So this goes back to that original post, Davidson says nothing of any value with basic simplistic mutterings and posters on here are saying - 'he's spot on', 'speaking the truth' and 'he has a point'... There's so much out there to use, but he chooses the narrowest path.
He could use it his platform to do something amazing - put it look like he just wants a right-wing radio talk show all about himself.
Re: Jim Davidson
So that’s alright then?FactualFrank wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:32 pmQuite a few times over the years I've heard/read him say that it's an act and that's all it is. He takes the p1ss out of disabled people, but thinks a lot about them and it's purely for entertainment and his audience.
So with regards to questioning whether he actually believes the distasteful things he says, I'd say he doesn't. It was all for his audience.
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Re: Jim Davidson
Well... that's eight minutes of my life I won't get back.
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Re: Jim Davidson
In one of the standups I've seen him do on YouTube, (which I can't find now) he does a bit about one of his disabled friends who he treats just like everyone else and doesn't tiptoe around the disability. Davidson says he gets him out of his wheelchair, playfully throws him around at parties and gets him involved with everything... there is a genuine friendship there - and it sounds quite sweet.
But then he performs the impressions of him, the 'belm face', the slurred speech and 'spazzy' hands and whatever - his disabled friend doesn't mind though - he finds it funny, so it's OK.
To me, it's just a really cheap laugh. There's no point in performing the impression. That's me though, others might find it amusing.
But then he performs the impressions of him, the 'belm face', the slurred speech and 'spazzy' hands and whatever - his disabled friend doesn't mind though - he finds it funny, so it's OK.
To me, it's just a really cheap laugh. There's no point in performing the impression. That's me though, others might find it amusing.
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Re: Jim Davidson
I've never bought this excuse that comedians like Davidson, Brown, and Manning used that "it's only an act".
For me, you can't do that kind of material, unless your mindset is programmed that way to start with.
For me, you can't do that kind of material, unless your mindset is programmed that way to start with.
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Re: Jim Davidson
After Trump's election, Brexit, Labour being whitewashed in that snap election, and reading the general knuckle-dragging dumbfuckery from people on Facebook, I joked amongst my friends that for my New Years resolution, I'm going to become a rightwing, tory voting, bigotted Brexitteer... I lasted about 6 weeks, it was too hard.fidelcastro wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:30 pmI've never bought this excuse that comedians like Davidson, Brown, and Manning used that "it's only an act".
For me, you can't do that kind of material, unless your mindset is programmed that way to start with.
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Re: Jim Davidson
Bernard Manning did lots of good work within the ethnic neighbourhoods in Manchester for many years, so yes it can be an actfidelcastro wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:30 pmI've never bought this excuse that comedians like Davidson, Brown, and Manning used that "it's only an act".
For me, you can't do that kind of material, unless your mindset is programmed that way to start with.
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Re: Jim Davidson
Bernard Manning was clearly racist and wasn't ashamed to admit it. I remember him on a show with Richard Wilson and let's just say Richard Wilson didn't like him.
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Re: Jim Davidson
No wonder.FactualFrank wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:08 pmBernard Manning was clearly racist and wasn't ashamed to admit it. I remember him on a show with Richard Wilson and let's just say Richard Wilson didn't like him.
Re: Jim Davidson
So clearly racist he set up support groups for the black community, did one black ladies shopping every week, and paid for it, not many racists do that, unless of course he wasn't.FactualFrank wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:08 pmBernard Manning was clearly racist and wasn't ashamed to admit it. I remember him on a show with Richard Wilson and let's just say Richard Wilson didn't like him.
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Re: Jim Davidson
Manning was the worst of the lot. Proper nasty stuff.
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Re: Jim Davidson
Aye, if he was around today, I can just see him taking the knee in support of the oppressed black community.
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Re: Jim Davidson
When I originally suggested Chubby Brown's schtick might just be an act, it was only based on about 30 minutes of behind the scenes footage that I saw in which he appeared to regard his fans as not much more than pond life. I recall a bit where some bloke came over to him for an autograph, but he wanted it addressed to his brother Leonard. He then started spelling it out and Brown went "I know how to spell Leonard you f*cking idiot" or words to that effect, but it sounded like he was genuinely annoyed rather than joking around
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Re: Jim Davidson
I think it's about the change in attitudes, Manning took the micky out of everyone and everything... it was 'sticks and stones' in those days. You can see in his interviews with 'young comedians' on such as Mark Lamarr and Caroline Ahearne (as Mrs Merton) and you can see he knows he knows his time is up on the mainstream platform, but he looks comfortable with that, however that new generation does criticise him and try to hold him to account, but you can also tell there's a respect there too.
Mark Lamarr interview - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5FoMng00bA
Mrs Merton (with Richard Wilson) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zaGwbRx_0Q
Mark Lamarr interview - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5FoMng00bA
Mrs Merton (with Richard Wilson) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zaGwbRx_0Q
Last edited by claptrappers_union on Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jim Davidson
Nice edit of my post to make it out of context, just stick to your own please
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Re: Jim Davidson
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Re: Jim Davidson
You Carnt say what he would or wouldn't do, iam just saying what he did actually do, which are recorded in many interviews with members of the black community, and documentrys made about his life.fidelcastro wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:14 pmAye, if he was around today, I can just see him taking the knee in support of the oppressed black community.
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Re: Jim Davidson
Can't
I am
Documentaries
Last edited by Wellsy1882 on Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jim Davidson
For balanceFactualFrank wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:39 pmhttps://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... ion-997531
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2007/j ... bituaries1
Re: Jim Davidson
Well done
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Re: Jim Davidson
TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:29 pmYes, probably time to retire when you're in a double act with John Virgo and Virgo's the "funny" one.
You mean Virgo wasn't meant to be the funny one ?
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Re: Jim Davidson
claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:54 amHis best work was BIg Break and that was below average
I'm watching some old episodes on Big Break at the moment, he carries the show really well
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Re: Jim Davidson
I liked Big Break as well and think they both worked well together.
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Re: Jim Davidson
manning was around in an era when adapting to change was very new, people hadn't dealt with ethnicity at all. he also did the usual scotsman irishman routines. it was altogether a different era. pointless putting his material under the spotlight in 2020.
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Re: Jim Davidson
I see black comics telling jokes about white people and other nationalities and it's funny but a white comic doing the same is a racist the world's gone mad why can't we all just enjoy a joke have a laugh and stop overreacting because you've been told it's offensive I'd probably laugh at both comedians so I'm not sure if that makes me a racist
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Re: Jim Davidson
You know, you can make jokes about the topic of race, watch the likes of Richard Prior or Chris Rock - they do it really well... Louis CK does some brilliant jokes about racism too - he does a whole bit pretty much justifying the use of the 'N-word'. Stewart Lee tells jokes about Muslims in one of his acts.Walkerpool wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:22 pmI see black comics telling jokes about white people and other nationalities and it's funny but a white comic doing the same is a racist the world's gone mad why can't we all just enjoy a joke have a laugh and stop overreacting because you've been told it's offensive I'd probably laugh at both comedians so I'm not sure if that makes me a racist
It's not racist though because of the context of the jokes.
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Re: Jim Davidson
Black comedians who aren't in the least bit funny feel they have to go with race. You watch the comedy clubs and they feel they have to try and be funny, by bringing race into it. I don't care if they are black, white or green... just be funny and stop dropping down to this level.claptrappers_union wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:55 pmYou know, you can make jokes about the topic of race, watch the likes of Richard Prior or Chris Rock - they do it really well... Louis CK does some brilliant jokes about racism too - he does a whole bit pretty much justifying the use of the 'N-word'. Stewart Lee tells jokes about Muslims in one of his acts.
It's not racist though because of the context of the jokes.
There's people who come onto shows like Mock the Week - you can tell she's going to play the race card. Jokes are fine, but these seem to only go for the race card. It's like they have no other material.
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Re: Jim Davidson
Ah yes. Straight away he's whining about black people using their voices about the oppression experienced by black people at the hands of the police in the US.
Why does that upset so many people? Especially white people.
Got no problem with black people playing sports and entertaining them, but as soon as one of them express an opinion? **** me do certain white people get triggered. I'm starting to think they might be racist.
Why does that upset so many people? Especially white people.
Got no problem with black people playing sports and entertaining them, but as soon as one of them express an opinion? **** me do certain white people get triggered. I'm starting to think they might be racist.
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Re: Jim Davidson
It's fine to joke about stereotypes as long as its obvious you're not racist.Walkerpool wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:22 pmI see black comics telling jokes about white people and other nationalities and it's funny but a white comic doing the same is a racist the world's gone mad why can't we all just enjoy a joke have a laugh and stop overreacting because you've been told it's offensive I'd probably laugh at both comedians so I'm not sure if that makes me a racist
Davidson, for example, is a racist. So when he makes a joke about race you can't tell whether the joke is him pinching down at that race, or whether he's making fun of the stereotype. And that ruins the joke. But Stewart Lee could make the same joke and you can trust he's mocking the stereotype, because he obviously isn't racist, which allows the audience to safely laugh.
Jim Davidson isnt unfunny, he was successful because he understands comedy, but his comedy is too often punching down whereas I prefer comedy that punches up at the privileged. And because he has a solid understanding of comedy its hard for me to imagine that he doesn't know what he's doing when he caters to the audience he's choosing to cater to.
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Re: Jim Davidson
Priveledgeism at it’s worst
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Re: Jim Davidson
Is that the same Stewart Lee who mocked someone's foreign sounding name?
A Jewish Tory MP...
A Jewish Tory MP...
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Re: Jim Davidson
FactualFrank wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:03 pmBlack comedians who aren't in the least bit funny feel they have to go with race. You watch the comedy clubs and they feel they have to try and be funny, by bringing race into it. I don't care if they are black, white or green... just be funny and stop dropping down to this level.
There's people who come onto shows like Mock the Week - you can tell she's going to play the race card. Jokes are fine, but these seem to only go for the race card. It's like they have no other material.
You’re probably not wrong to be fair, there are some black comedians who are awful, it does seem like the same stuff. But there are more **** white comedians who have been on that Mock the Week.
Most comedians use where they are from in the act though. Its easy material.
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Re: Jim Davidson
lenny henry, he's still doing that delbert wilkins thing.
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Re: Jim Davidson
That's what I mean though. They bring it into their act and it really isn't funny. It just shouts out as desperate.claptrappers_union wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:10 pmYou’re probably not wrong to be fair, there are some black comedians who are awful, it does seem like the same stuff. But there are more **** white comedians who have been on that Mock the Week.
Most comedians use where they are from in the act though. Its easy material.
But I guess we all love different humour. Before lockdown I went to watch Josh Widdicombe and Jasper Carrott. Both hilarious and Jasper, you could tell was a professional. He knew what he was doing. No racism whatsoever, he was just funny.
When someone comes on and the first thing they say is about how they were brought up in Africa, it's not funny. At all.
Agreed that there's a lot of unfunny white people who come on. Russell Howard - sorry... not funny in the least.
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Re: Jim Davidson
Jim Davidson is possibly the most racist person I've ever had to meet.
I had to work with him and his "team" in '92.
It's a long story.
Cut short it involved Jim Davidson being hired to host a John Taylor function (Black Tory Candidate) and Cheltenham (Tory safe seat) election campaign and John Major and money.
If I get time (and can be arsed) I'll flesh this out more............
Fair to say Davidson is THE most objectionable "person?" I have ever had the the misfortune to have to deal with. Absolutely no redeemable features to this "person?"...
It was a more polished persona most would see on TV - even probably live and that was bad... but the reality away from his "Job?" he was and probably still is as rotten to the core as they come, ingrained in him.
I'll expand if I can be bothered - all true.
I had to work with him and his "team" in '92.
It's a long story.
Cut short it involved Jim Davidson being hired to host a John Taylor function (Black Tory Candidate) and Cheltenham (Tory safe seat) election campaign and John Major and money.
If I get time (and can be arsed) I'll flesh this out more............
Fair to say Davidson is THE most objectionable "person?" I have ever had the the misfortune to have to deal with. Absolutely no redeemable features to this "person?"...
It was a more polished persona most would see on TV - even probably live and that was bad... but the reality away from his "Job?" he was and probably still is as rotten to the core as they come, ingrained in him.
I'll expand if I can be bothered - all true.
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Re: Jim Davidson
Fair enough. You're one of the decent posters so no reason to doubt what you've said. Maybe that's why he's no longer on TV. I heard the same about Jimmy Tarbuck.HunterST_BFC wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:27 pmJim Davidson is possibly the most racist person I've ever had to meet.
I had to work with him and his "team" in '92.
It's a long story.
Cut short it involved Jim Davidson being hired to host a John Taylor function (Black Tory Candidate) and Cheltenham (Tory safe seat) election campaign and John Major and money.
If I get time (and can be arsed) I'll flesh this out more............
Fair to say Davidson is THE most objectionable "person?" I have ever had the the misfortune to have to deal with. Absolutely no redeemable features to this "person?"...
It was a more polished persona most would see on TV - even probably live and that was bad... but the reality away from his "Job?" he was and probably still is as rotten to the core as they come, ingrained in him.
I'll expand if I can be bothered - all true.
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Re: Jim Davidson
I would imagine though that Josh Widdecombe did a bit about growing up in Devon and Jasper Carrott did something about Birmingham though.FactualFrank wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:19 pmBefore lockdown I went to watch Josh Widdicombe and Jasper Carrott. Both hilarious and Jasper, you could tell was a professional. He knew what he was doing. No racism whatsoever, he was just funny.
When someone comes on and the first thing they say is about how they were brought up in Africa, it's not funny. At all.
Agreed that there's a lot of unfunny white people who come on. Russell Howard - sorry... not funny in the least.
But I get your point though.
Not seen Jasper Carrott in ages, I used to really like him... he could his job with his eyes closed now I bet. I might dig up some of his stuff on YouTube, probably not my cup of tea anymore, but a safe pair of hands.
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Re: Jim Davidson
Yes, that was in a newspaper column, but the MP wasn’t the but of the joke, the target was little Englanders who want MP with English names.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:09 pmIs that the same Stewart Lee who mocked someone's foreign sounding name?
A Jewish Tory MP...
Racists jokes can be divisive... but your playing a very risky game if tell a joke with anything Jewish in it. Steer well clear. Unless you are Jewish of course and your just a self-hating Jew like Gary Shandling, Sarah Silverman, Jon Stewart and Woody Allen - only the ultra Zionist don’t like them... but they don’t like anyone.... I don’t think?
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Re: Jim Davidson
He was really good mate. You could tell he'd been doing this for years with how he worked the crowd.claptrappers_union wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:38 pmI would imagine though that Josh Widdecombe did a bit about growing up in Devon and Jasper Carrott did something about Birmingham though.
But I get your point though.
Not seen Jasper Carrott in ages, I used to really like him... he could his job with his eyes closed now I bet. I might dig up some of his stuff on YouTube, probably not my cup of tea anymore, but a safe pair of hands.
He had a band on during the breaks which wasn't really my cup of tea, but was spot on when he came on.
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