Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

[aggi]

They haven't broken any laws yet.
They're putting provisions in place that will enable them to transport food to a part of the United Kingdom if the EU carry out their threat to leave us off their list of approved countries.

I assume you're happy that the EU are willing to allow potential food shortages to happen in N.Ireland to get what they want from us.

We've stated that we will be honoring current EU regulations on food and if we wish to make any changes they'll be notified through the proper channels with the appropriate amount of time.
The EU still aren't happy with that and have issued threats as a response.

They're not though are they. Two issues have been conflated and the gullible (and there appear to be plenty out there) have swallowed it up hook, line and sinker. I wouldn't say it is particularly their fault though, it's a pretty complex area and one where you'd expect some more penetrating questions and analysis from the press.

Nothing in yesterday's bill had anything to do with resolving the issue of the UK not being one of the authorised countries.

[Tall Paul]

Lol Tall Paul

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[aggi]

Ask the whiskey ,lamb and cheese sectors of the food industry if they are happy today. Thing is, it simply proves , as per usual, almost the scare tactics to be lies on your side.

Myth - "Our international reputation will be shattered." And " no country will give us a better trade deal"

While you were coming out with this garbage the UK / Japan trade deal is signed!

Myth busted!

You've not read the detail of this have you? The UK gets the quota that is left over after the EU have taken what they want. If the EU use their full quota then we don't get any additional quota for exporting our cheese.

We've moved from being part of the discussion on how those EU quotas get divvied up to waiting for the crumbs to fall off the table.

[Spijed]

Ask the whiskey ,lamb and cheese sectors of the food industry if they are happy today. Thing is, it simply proves , as per usual, almost the scare tactics to be lies on your side.

Myth - "Our international reputation will be shattered." And " no country will give us a better trade deal"

While you were coming out with this garbage the UK / Japan trade deal is signed!

Myth busted!

So we didn't sell any whiskey lamb or cheese to Japan while in the EU?

Anyway, it's a two way street. There are businesses in the UK that will have to take a hit due to more Japanese imports. Cant have it both ways Ringo.

[martin_p]

https://news.sky.com/story/controversia ... s-12065832

That story doesn’t contain one provision that will prevent the threatened EU ‘blockade’.

But here it is from the horses mouth.

https://youtu.be/QG71rhV9ocI

[martin_p]

PM versus Shadow/ deputy shadow that's the protocol.

I'd have more respect for the labour party if it could ,rather than constantly trying to be seen extolling its diversity credentials.

It was just more honest and admitted it simply doesn't like northern women , whether its Rebekah Long Bailey or Angela Raynor, speaking on its behalf . Instead its default position is white male metropolitan bubble dwellers!

The labour party - used to be the working class party.

Now it's an Islington dinner party

No, in this instance the protocol would have been Business Secretary v Shadow Business Secretary, but if they think it important enough the PM can take over. I can 100% guarantee that had Johnson not been available then Sharma would have led the debate rather than deputy PM (if there even is one). Of course I could make an issue over why Johnson chose to lead it rather than leave it to Indian born Sharma, but it has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

[RingoMcCartney]

This summer Germany broke international law.

This summer The EU broke international law.

David Cameron - Libya- regime change broke International . Syria attempted regime change, air strikes broke international law.

Tony Bliar- illegal invasion resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of deaths of innocent iraqi men women and children. Should have swung from the nearest lamp post

John Major - prorogation of parliament to avoid cash for questions ! How did that look on the international stage!?

Gordon Brown - never won a general election yet inherited the job as PM!! Yet following the election, had to be dragged ,kicking and screaming out of his bunker while desperately trying to concoct a coalition with the illiberal Democrats, refusing to accept the game was over! After selling the nations gold at the bottom of the market !!! How was his international reputation!!

Boris protects the Union from EU mission creep and economic annexation of northern Ireland and the usual flock bleating ceaseless remoaners are having a nostalgic trip down , "let's stop Brexit" lane!

Stop cherry picking which international law you want to have a hissy fitting tantrum over!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

That story doesn’t contain one provision that will prevent the threatened EU ‘blockade’.

But here it is from the horses mouth.

https://youtu.be/QG71rhV9ocI

The internal market bill will allow the UK to circumvent the EU rules.

It may not be needed because the EU are currently threatening and may change their minds.

Also it wouldn't be a blockade in the true sense of the word, just means they can take the UK to court for sending food to a part of the UK.

[RingoMcCartney]

No, in this instance the protocol would have been Business Secretary v Shadow Business Secretary, but if they think it important enough the PM can take over. I can 100% guarantee that had Johnson not been available then Sharma would have led the debate rather than deputy PM (if there even is one). Of course I could make an issue over why Johnson chose to lead it rather than leave it to Indian born Sharma, but it has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Labour -

Northern woman -" Shhhhh"

[martin_p]

So we didn't sell any whiskey lamb or cheese to Japan while in the EU?

Anyway, it's a two way street. There are businesses in the UK that will have to take a hit due to more Japanese imports. Cant have it both ways Ringo.

Don’t knock it, blue cheese exports to Japan are currently worth over £100k a year. Just imagine if we managed to sell twice as much, that’d be an extra £100k a year flooding into the uk. Talks of a prolonged recession are premature with figures like that!

[martin_p]

Labour -

Northern woman -" Shhhhh"

Maybe if you did less to confirm the stereotypical view some people have of northerners it would help.

[martin_p]

The internal market bill will allow the UK to circumvent the EU rules.

It may not be needed because the EU are currently threatening and may change their minds.

Also it wouldn't be a blockade in the true sense of the word, just means they can take the UK to court for sending food to a part of the UK.

And they still will be able to. The internal market bill isn’t taking NI out of the EU customs zone so EU rules will still apply.

Boris Johnson was given the opportunity to explain how the bill would stop this and couldn’t, because it won’t.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

And they still will be able to. The internal market bill isn’t taking NI out of the EU customs zone so EU rules will still apply.

Boris Johnson was given the opportunity to explain how the bill would stop this and couldn’t, because it won’t.

The internal market bill is technically a way to get round the EU threats.

If we don't need the bill then why are you lot all up in arms over it?

[martin_p]

The internal market bill is technically a way to get round the EU threats.

No it isn’t. It’s about (amongst other things) trying to override the requirement for tariffs and checks on goods going from GB to NI as outlined in the WA. Nothing to do with the threatened ‘blockade’.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

No it isn’t. It’s about (amongst other things) trying to override the requirement for tariffs and checks on goods going from GB to NI as outlined in the WA. Nothing to do with the threatened ‘blockade’.

Ah so that's why you're upset, not about the threatened blockade etc.

So you're still good with potential food shortages in N.Ireland then if the EU takes legal action to stop us sending food there as normal.

[martin_p]

Ah so that's why you're upset, not about the threatened blockade etc.

So you're still good with potential food shortages in N.Ireland then if the EU takes legal action to stop us sending food there as normal.

You think the UK government will stop sending food to NI because of potential EU legal action?

[RingoMcCartney]

Maybe if you did less to confirm the stereotypical view some people have of northerners" it would help.

If the "stereotypical view some people have of northerners" is repeatedly being on the winning side of expressions of democracy, I'll carry on doing what I do. I that's ok with you!

[martin_p]

If the "stereotypical view some people have of northerners" is repeatedly being on the winning side of expressions of democracy, I'll carry on doing what I do. I that's ok with you!

It isn’t.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

You think the UK government will stop sending food to NI because of potential EU legal action?

No I don't think so, but if the EU drags us to court over it then potentially they could be stopped.

You seem fine with it though tbh.

[Lancasterclaret]

Hi Sid

Genuine question here

You do know that the government reason (food shortages NI due to EU blockade) that has got you and Ringo all hot under the collar isn't actually sorted by this bill right?

(back to lurking)

[martin_p]

No I don't think so, but if the EU drags us to court over it then potentially they could be stopped.

You seem fine with it though tbh.

How will they be stopped exactly? Battleships and jet fighters in the Irish Sea?

Someone once came up with a phrase for this sort of thing, what was it? Ah yes, Project Fear.

[PeterWilton]

I've not been paying attention to this the last few days, can someone fill me in? Are we still threatening to break the law and blaming others for it? I notice there was a vote, I assume that was to affirm the withdrawal agreement on which an election was won.

[Greenmile]

So you want links to where I've stated it on here previously?
No chance.

Well, now I’m less inclined to believe you

[PeterWilton]

How will they be stopped exactly? Battleships and jet fighters in the Irish Sea?

Someone once came up with a phrase for this sort, what was it? Ah yes, Project Fear.

Oh yeah. Haha. I remember Project Fear. That was a fun little name the people scared about EU domination and Turks used.

[Damo]

Remember in 2018 when the EU said "the price the UK will pay for brexit, wil be Northern Ireland"?
No wonder they are so upset
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news ... 08318.html

[Greenmile]

I made an error

...is usually followed by an apology, not....

build a bridge, get over it.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Hi Sid

Genuine question here

You do know that the government reason (food shortages NI due to EU blockade) that has got you and Ringo all hot under the collar isn't actually sorted by this bill right?

(back to lurking)

Long time lurker ?

[martin_p]

Remember in 2018 when the EU said "the price the UK will pay for brexit, wil be Northern Ireland"?
No wonder they are so upset
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news ... 08318.html

You mean Dominic Raab said some unnamed EU official implied it. Well that’s as good as official policy then!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

...is usually followed by an apology, not....

Why do I need to apologise?
I haven't offended anyone, nor caused an harm.

[Damo]

You mean Dominic Raab said some unnamed EU official implied it. Well that’s as good as official policy then!

"Everything that I don't like the sound of is a lie"
Showing your mental age there martin

[GodIsADeeJay81]

How will they be stopped exactly? Battleships and jet fighters in the Irish Sea?

Someone once came up with a phrase for this sort of thing, what was it? Ah yes, Project Fear.

I assume you've heard of a little thing like sanctions.

Of course the EU can't physically stop us, they haven't got their armed forces yet, we are a good number of years away from that happening.

It would all depend on what the ECJ would rule.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Well, now I’m less inclined to believe you

Couldn't give a toss either way

[martin_p]

"Everything that I don't like the sound of is a lie"
Showing your mental age there martin

Just relaying what the article actually says rather than the spin you’ve put on it. If we’re going to give credence to what one person thinks another person has implied in a meeting it’s no wonder trade deal negotiations are getting nowhere.

And if I wanted to demonstrate a low mental age I’d start throwing personal insults at you.

[martin_p]

I assume you've heard of a little thing like sanctions.

Of course the EU can't physically stop us, they haven't got their armed forces yet, we are a good number of years away from that happening.

It would all depend on what the ECJ would rule.

So you agree that breaking international law isn’t a good idea then!

[Bordeauxclaret]

Some Ringo levels of holes being dug here.

[Damo]

And if I wanted to demonstrate a low mental age I’d start throwing personal insults at you.

Oh come off it martin.
Cant can't the number of times you have questioned peoples intelligence on here for having a viewpoint you don't like. I've seen some of the stuff you post to Ringo.
Don't be a snowflake pal

[dsr]

It's a tricky one, isn't it? Obviously there must be no barrier to trade between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. That is explicit in the Good Friday Agreement, which is an international agreement, and I don't think any party to the Withdrawal Agreement has proposed that its conditions can be ignored.

So breaking the Good Friday Agreement would be to break international law. Both the UK and the EU are particularly hot on the Good Friday Agreement, to the extent that the north-south border in Ireland was a big issue on the Withdrawal Agreement even though it isn't mentioned in the Good Friday Agreement.

The east-west border, however, is clearly stated as remaining open and unaffected by the Good Friday agreement. So the Withdrawal Agreement is flawed; perhaps neither side should have signed it. It is a breach of international law in itself. So what do we do? Tear the whole thing up? Or just tweak it round the edges so we ignore a few little details that contradict pre-existing law?

[martin_p]

Oh come off it martin.
Cant can't the number of times you have questioned peoples intelligence on here for having a viewpoint you don't like. I've seen some of the stuff you post to Ringo.
Don't be a snowflake pal

Only with Wrongo, but then he always starts it. If you can find another instance then go for it.

A decent thread was locked the other night for ‘constant bickering’, you were one of those involved. Please let people who want to discuss the issues discuss them and keep out of it if you can’t do it with a civil tongue.

[martin_p]

It's a tricky one, isn't it? Obviously there must be no barrier to trade between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. That is explicit in the Good Friday Agreement, which is an international agreement, and I don't think any party to the Withdrawal Agreement has proposed that its conditions can be ignored.

So breaking the Good Friday Agreement would be to break international law. Both the UK and the EU are particularly hot on the Good Friday Agreement, to the extent that the north-south border in Ireland was a big issue on the Withdrawal Agreement even though it isn't mentioned in the Good Friday Agreement.

The east-west border, however, is clearly stated as remaining open and unaffected by the Good Friday agreement. So the Withdrawal Agreement is flawed; perhaps neither side should have signed it. It is a breach of international law in itself. So what do we do? Tear the whole thing up? Or just tweak it round the edges so we ignore a few little details that contradict pre-existing law?

Which part of the WA creates trade barriers between the UK and NI?

[Damo]

Only with Wrongo, but then he always starts it. If you can find another instance then go for it.

A decent thread was locked the other night for ‘constant bickering’, you were one of those involved. Please let people who want to discuss the issues discuss them and keep out of it if you can’t do it with a civil tongue.

ok pal.
Sorry for any offence caused

[dsr]

Which part of the WA creates trade barriers between the UK and NI?

Don't know. Perhaps there isn't one, in which case this new law isn't breaking any international agreement.

[PeterWilton]

Remember in 2018 when the EU said "the price the UK will pay for brexit, wil be Northern Ireland"?
No wonder they are so upset
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news ... 08318.html

Dominic Raab said that someone else implied that. Must be true because Dominic Raab would never lie, would he?

[PeterWilton]

You mean Dominic Raab said some unnamed EU official implied it. Well that’s as good as official policy then!

I like you. You make good points.

[martin_p]

Don't know. Perhaps there isn't one, in which case this new law isn't breaking any international agreement.

And where does the Good Friday Agreement say there can’t be trade barriers between the UK and NI? It wouldn’t have considered a non existent border that is only being created at the behest of the current government. I misunderstood your previous post, I thought you were referring to trade barriers between Ireland and NI as that’s the only thing that made sense.

[martin_p]

Edit - posted in error.

[KateR]

Only with Wrongo, but then he always starts it. If you can find another instance then go for it.

A decent thread was locked the other night for ‘constant bickering’, you were one of those involved. Please let people who want to discuss the issues discuss them and keep out of it if you can’t do it with a civil tongue.

most definitely not only with Ringo, you are one of the main culprits in threads being blocked, you're across every thread that has been blocked from what I can see.

[martin_p]

most definitely not only with Ringo, you are one of the main culprits in threads being blocked, you're across every thread that has been blocked from what I can see.

Ok, we’ll you won’t mind pointing out where I’ve called people names then. Or you could just join the debate.

[KateR]

go find it for yourself, it's easy, I wont join a debate because when any thread is of a political nature, your stance is well known and it is impossible to debate when people are not willing or refuse to accept anyone else's position or perception, hence for these threads I will be going back to a more Lancaster stance and just continue to monitor the posturing from both sides. Occasionally dropping in & out.

[martin_p]

go find it for yourself, it's easy, I wont join a debate because when any thread is of a political nature, your stance is well known and it is impossible to debate when people are not willing or refuse to accept anyone else's position or perception, hence for these threads I will be going back to a more Lancaster stance and just continue to monitor the posturing from both sides. Occasionally dropping in & out.

Ok, bye.

[RingoMcCartney]

Silent Minority was the name of a documentary about mistreatment of mentally handicapped folks in a mental health asylum in Oxfordshire.

Ringo is pure, uncut, unfiltered drama.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-ente ... 45350.html

Grayson Perry says right-wing people are ‘friendlier and more open’ than the left

Grayson Perry says that left-wing people have a “tribal culture” that encourages feeling guilty and are less “friendly” than their right-wing counterparts.

“The left is more venal and has more antipathy to the opposition than the other way round,” Perry said. “I would say the right on average are friendlier and more open.”