New Lockdown

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NottsClaret
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by NottsClaret » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:45 pm

Remember the first time, and we were saying our lockdown wasn't a proper lockdown, not like the Spanish.

And now we're trying to not end up like the Spanish. But hopefully get our rate down closer to where the Swedes are, who were terrible.

6 months really is a long time.

CombatClaret
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by CombatClaret » Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:04 pm

Johnson before:
"Test and trace can be a real game changer for us"
Matt Handcock before:
"Finding where people who test positive are is the single most important thing we can do to stop the spread of the virus"

Johnson yesterday
"Testing and tracing has very little, or nothing to do with the spread or transition of the virus.

Liars and charlatans who will say whatever they want because it suits them.
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Bigbopper
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by Bigbopper » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:18 pm

If we want reasons the virus is on the increase look no further than

The thousands who flocked to the beach every time the sun came out.

The thousands on the streets at BLM demonstrations and counterdemonstrations.

Football fans celebrating promotions and title wins

People attending large scale unauthorised music events.

My main critiscm of the government is that they should have brought the troops in to support the police and made mass arrest s and put these people in ready prepared detention camps.Those detained should have been given basic shelter,limited food and water and left to get on with it.No need to track and trace you know where they are.Most survive some not so fortunate but they brought it on themselves.
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Spijed
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by Spijed » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:22 pm

Bigbopper wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:18 pm
If we want reasons the virus is on the increase look no further than

The thousands who flocked to the beach every time the sun came out.

The thousands on the streets at BLM demonstrations and counterdemonstrations.

Football fans celebrating promotions and title wins

People attending large scale unauthorised music events.

My main critiscm of the government is that they should have brought the troops in to support the police and made mass arrest s and put these people in ready prepared detention camps.Those detained should have been given basic shelter,limited food and water and left to get on with it.No need to track and trace you know where they are.Most survive some not so fortunate but they brought it on themselves.
I suppose if everyone had stuck to the guidelines we'd now have got rid of the virus?

CombatClaret
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by CombatClaret » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:12 pm

Bigbopper wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:18 pm
If we want reasons the virus is on the increase look no further than

The thousands who flocked to the beach every time the sun came out.

The thousands on the streets at BLM demonstrations and counterdemonstrations.

Football fans celebrating promotions and title wins

People attending large scale unauthorised music events.
Your theory seems to be 'look to the front page of The Sun from a month ago'.

The spike has come now when we've actively started putting people back in rooms together be it work, school, weddings etc. At the same time and in part due to this people have subconsciously relaxed and started expanding their social bubbles.

EDIT: just read the second part about detention camps etc then looked at account info. Didn't realize you're either a troll or a parody account.
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CombatClaret
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by CombatClaret » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:15 pm

A member of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), who did not wish to be named, told the Guardian that
“the scientific advice is that stronger restrictions should apply overall”

Apparent for a while but again clear we are no longer 'Following the science'.

DCWat
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by DCWat » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:17 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:15 pm
A member of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), who did not wish to be named, told the Guardian that
“the scientific advice is that stronger restrictions should apply overall”

Apparent for a while but again clear we are no longer 'Following the science'.
If only it was as simple as to just follow the science.

FulledgeClaret
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by FulledgeClaret » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:10 pm

Granny WeatherWax wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:32 am
Looks like we are possibly heading towards some form of national measures again, so not only are the selfish people who won’t follow the rules risking spreading the virus they also now risking our liberties again.
Its the same selfish ones ******* and whinging about having their liberties infringed upon and that its some sort of worldwide hoax to control the masses.

dsr
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by dsr » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:33 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:15 pm
A member of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), who did not wish to be named, told the Guardian that
“the scientific advice is that stronger restrictions should apply overall”

Apparent for a while but again clear we are no longer 'Following the science'.
Economics is a science as well, you know.

There is no triumph in saving the lives of 50,000 if you kill 51,000 to do it. If the economy suffers a permanent 20% hit, do you think the NHS will be as good at saving lives as it is now? (Or at least, as it was last year?)
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martin_p
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by martin_p » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:37 pm

dsr wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:33 pm
Economics is a science as well, you know.

There is no triumph in saving the lives of 50,000 if you kill 51,000 to do it. If the economy suffers a permanent 20% hit, do you think the NHS will be as good at saving lives as it is now? (Or at least, as it was last year?)
A recent LSE report stated that the long term impact on the economy of no deal Brexit is likely to be at least twice as bad as that of Covid but you don’t seem to have a problem with that.

dsr
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by dsr » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:55 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:37 pm
A recent LSE report stated that the long term impact on the economy of no deal Brexit is likely to be at least twice as bad as that of Covid but you don’t seem to have a problem with that.
Not sure of the relevance to a coronavirus thread.

Haven;t we a Brexit thread for you to do Brexit sniping on?

Quicknick
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by Quicknick » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:35 am

Spijed wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:22 pm
I suppose if everyone had stuck to the guidelines we'd now have got rid of the virus?
Of course we wouldn't as it's not controllable. Countries who have had the best record ''locking people down'' are experiencing the biggest upsurge in ''cases'', although just how many of our new ''cases'' are false positives is the question that the government seem to be in denial over.

martin_p
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by martin_p » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:26 am

dsr wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:55 pm
Not sure of the relevance to a coronavirus thread.

Haven;t we a Brexit thread for you to do Brexit sniping on?
It’s entirely relevant when you’ve been saying for the last four years, in the face of forecasts of post Brexit economic downturn, that some things are worth a hit to the economy. Yet saving lives for half the hit on the economy doesn’t seem important to you. Inconsistency or the cult of Brexit trumping life itself?

martin_p
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by martin_p » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:27 am

Quicknick wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:35 am
Of course we wouldn't as it's not controllable. Countries who have had the best record ''locking people down'' are experiencing the biggest upsurge in ''cases'', although just how many of our new ''cases'' are false positives is the question that the government seem to be in denial over.
How many of our new cases are ‘false positives’ then?

TheFamilyCat
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:39 am

Matt Hancock doing another good impression of a man who doesn't know what he's doing on BBC Breakfast.

MDWat
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by MDWat » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:41 am

I very, very rarely comment on politics on here but Matt Hancock is a complete bellwipe.

martin_p
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by martin_p » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:42 am

By the way, the NHS Covid-19 tracing app is available to download today. The concerns people had about the data security of the first, abandoned, version of this app have been addressed. The best chance the app has of helping slow the spread of the virus is lots of people using it so if you have a smartphone I’d urge people to download it.
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Zlatan
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by Zlatan » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:50 am

martin_p wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:42 am
By the way, the NHS Covid-19 tracing app is available to download today. The concerns people had about the data security of the first, abandoned, version of this app have been addressed. The best chance the app has of helping slow the spread of the virus is lots of people using it so if you have a smartphone I’d urge people to download it.
I'll echo what martin_p has said - please download it, it is secure, it doesn't not transmit any personal data to the government (like the first failed app did). This could be a game changer to coin a well used phrase.

bfcmik
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by bfcmik » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:10 am

The Northern Powerhouse area, along with the North-East, is definitely the main hotspot in new cases between the 14th & 20th September. Over half of all English positive tests were in those areas. Reedley Ward, with 53 positive tests, is the 2nd worst in England after Levenshulme (54) in south Manchester!
covid NW 200920.JPG
covid NW 200920.JPG (109.82 KiB) Viewed 2075 times
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewe ... 9wEd-Qg8wk

bfcmik
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by bfcmik » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:21 am

Where the UK stands in relation to EU&EEA member states over the 14 days between 10th and 24th September
EU Covid.JPG
EU Covid.JPG (105.98 KiB) Viewed 2069 times
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

dsr
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by dsr » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:45 am

The number of cases per 100,000 is useless for comparison purposes unless they say how many tests have been done. The number of people admitted to hospital and the number of deaths are much more comparable.

Out of interest, and please no-one read anything into this question, but we have been told all along that BAME people are more vulnerable to this disease. So they know how many of the positive tests are of BAME people?

Loyalclaret
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by Loyalclaret » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:51 am

Wonder if this is how they believe BAME community are more vulnerable, imagine this would be recorded?
" The number of people admitted to hospital and the number of deaths are much more comparable"

mkmel
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by mkmel » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:05 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:39 am
Matt Hancock doing another good impression of a man who doesn't know what he's doing on BBC Breakfast.
Replace the name Matt Hancock with Boris Johnson or Gavin Williamson and you get the same result

ClaretAndJew
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by ClaretAndJew » Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:06 am

mealdeal wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:40 pm
I'll have 50p with you that there won't
Ready to lose 50p?

boatshed bill
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:12 am

New measures in France, and substantial financial help too.

ClaretAndJew
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by ClaretAndJew » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:45 am

Grumps wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:44 pm
I'll up it to 50quid....no way they will impose national lockdown
Get your money out Grumps

Grumps
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by Grumps » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:53 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:45 am
Get your money out Grumps
You said "before long".... That was on the 17th Sept... I think you're out of time to claim anything now.

SalouClaret
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by SalouClaret » Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:01 am

Grumps wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:53 am
You said "before long".... That was on the 17th Sept... I think you're out of time to claim anything now.

Boris, is that you?

CrosspoolClarets
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:06 am

I’m getting really sick of seeing Covid death figures everywhere, on the media, in conversation.

It totally blindsides other deaths (and ill health or misery). If suicides go up by 5,000 (not implausible) that is about 200,000 years of life lost. The average age of a Covid death is 82, in all probability another 50,000 Covid deaths will also be around 200,000 years of life lost (many would only have had weeks to live anyway, others a decade or two). Then we factor in delayed treatment for cancers, worsening long lasting morbidity (as opposed to mortality), alzeimers.......

Every loss of life is tragic, but those of us making health policy decisions have to factor in the whole picture - I don’t see evidence that SAGE are doing that, nor Cabinet. A set of failures (starting with the PM, but permeating all the way down into the civil service and to many of us as citizens who have failed to adhere) has led to very bad options - but it’s disingenuous to suggest lockdown is the only one, and SAGE should have been challenged more strongly to model equivalent graphs and tables for other elements, such as what I suggest above. Their role should be to maximise health and wellbeing, with Covid obviously the main variable but not the only one.

Sadly I come to the conclusion that few of them are up to it - the PM (hasn’t put big hitters around him), Cabinet (too many sycophants), the opposition (lack of creative alternatives presented, too keen to sling mud), many on SAGE (lack of focus on wider health), civil service (famous Excel file with a 65000 row limit etc)......doesn’t fill me with hope for 2021.

Grumps
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by Grumps » Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:15 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:06 am
I’m getting really sick of seeing Covid death figures everywhere, on the media, in conversation.

It totally blindsides other deaths (and ill health or misery). If suicides go up by 5,000 (not implausible) that is about 200,000 years of life lost. The average age of a Covid death is 82, in all probability another 50,000 Covid deaths will also be around 200,000 years of life lost (many would only have had weeks to live anyway, others a decade or two). Then we factor in delayed treatment for cancers, worsening long lasting morbidity (as opposed to mortality), alzeimers.......

Every loss of life is tragic, but those of us making health policy decisions have to factor in the whole picture - I don’t see evidence that SAGE are doing that, nor Cabinet. A set of failures (starting with the PM, but permeating all the way down into the civil service and to many of us as citizens who have failed to adhere) has led to very bad options - but it’s disingenuous to suggest lockdown is the only one, and SAGE should have been challenged more strongly to model equivalent graphs and tables for other elements, such as what I suggest above. Their role should be to maximise health and wellbeing, with Covid obviously the main variable but not the only one.

Sadly I come to the conclusion that few of them are up to it - the PM (hasn’t put big hitters around him), Cabinet (too many sycophants), the opposition (lack of creative alternatives presented, too keen to sling mud), many on SAGE (lack of focus on wider health), civil service (famous Excel file with a 65000 row limit etc)......doesn’t fill me with hope for 2021.
Reported today that the Cambridge report which the brothers grim used on Saturday as worse case scenario of 4000 deaths a day had actually been updated to show much lower predictions of around 400,but they didn't use it. Just makes you not trust any figures they give out.
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kentonclaret
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by kentonclaret » Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:20 am

Boris filled his Cabinet with like-minded politicians that supported Brexit and his "Let's get Brexit done" mantra. No real surprise that they are found wanting in coping with a pandemic.

The real question remains that without a lockdown the NHS would be overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of treating Covid patients, regardless of whether death was the final outcome. So many wards would have to be converted into "Covid wards" that other patients would be denied treatment as a result.

Just looking at "the number of deaths" is a bit of a red herring since fewer deaths should now be happening due to improved treatments and the administration of more effective drugs. The fact remains, however, that people are still needing to be admitted to hospital in increasing numbers to receive that care and treatment with limited hospital resources.
Last edited by kentonclaret on Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

ClaretAndJew
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by ClaretAndJew » Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:24 am

Grumps wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:53 am
You said "before long".... That was on the 17th Sept... I think you're out of time to claim anything now.
But.. you said there is no way they will impose national lockdown, you didn't provide a time scale ;)

Grumps
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by Grumps » Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:30 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:24 am
But.. you said there is no way they will impose national lockdown, you didn't provide a time scale ;)
I was answering your prediction, iam sure that was clear :D

My other get out is that it's not a full lockdown.... Schools open.... No restriction of excercise... Can meet people outside..... Non essential shops can still open if click and collect... Childcare bubbles.... Basically a lot more will be open. If it was a bookie who had made the bet iam sure they'd be using all these reasons for not paying out... I'll do the same :lol: :lol:

kentonclaret
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by kentonclaret » Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:32 am

You would have to wait a while to collect your winnings all bookies will be shut during lockdown. :lol: :lol:

PeterWilton
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Re: New Lockdown

Post by PeterWilton » Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:35 am

I found this clip of Iain Duncan Smith.

https://youtu.be/i1bl4hG-qXM

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Re: New Lockdown

Post by PeterWilton » Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:54 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:06 am
I’m getting really sick of seeing Covid death figures everywhere, on the media, in conversation.

It totally blindsides other deaths (and ill health or misery). If suicides go up by 5,000 (not implausible) that is about 200,000 years of life lost. The average age of a Covid death is 82, in all probability another 50,000 Covid deaths will also be around 200,000 years of life lost (many would only have had weeks to live anyway, others a decade or two). Then we factor in delayed treatment for cancers, worsening long lasting morbidity (as opposed to mortality), alzeimers.......

Every loss of life is tragic, but those of us making health policy decisions have to factor in the whole picture - I don’t see evidence that SAGE are doing that, nor Cabinet. A set of failures (starting with the PM, but permeating all the way down into the civil service and to many of us as citizens who have failed to adhere) has led to very bad options - but it’s disingenuous to suggest lockdown is the only one, and SAGE should have been challenged more strongly to model equivalent graphs and tables for other elements, such as what I suggest above. Their role should be to maximise health and wellbeing, with Covid obviously the main variable but not the only one.

Sadly I come to the conclusion that few of them are up to it - the PM (hasn’t put big hitters around him), Cabinet (too many sycophants), the opposition (lack of creative alternatives presented, too keen to sling mud), many on SAGE (lack of focus on wider health), civil service (famous Excel file with a 65000 row limit etc)......doesn’t fill me with hope for 2021.
This is just an amazing post, and not in a good way.

Look, if you're upset that Covid deaths are taking away attention from other deaths then pay attention to the excess mortality figures instead.

You are concerned that the other deaths are not getting attention, presumably because of how awful those numbers would be. Well, what this lockdown is attempting to avoid is a situation where the excess mortality caused by the Coronavirus is more than the entire average weekly mortality of the last 10 years, which it what happened for 2 consecutive weeks earlier this year DESPITE the lockdown. So imagine how much worse it would be without one.

It simply doesn't make sense to be more concerned about deaths by other specific causes than by Covid since Covid has already proven it can kill more than all other deaths combined.

Locked