Harry Wilson

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Boss Hogg
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Boss Hogg » Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:39 am

Newcastle interested.

arise_sir_charge
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by arise_sir_charge » Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:47 am

TVC15 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:39 am
100%

To suggest that MG and the board have done little or nothing and it’s all down to SD is ludicrous. SD would never say that was the case.
The particular poster seems to be saying he understands our financial accounts because he has been a shareholder for 30 years - like that is some kind of qualification !

I’ve said lots of times this is not about “cash in the bank” or £140m of revenue - it’s pretty not much anything to do with our historical performance (other than its a good job MG has not burdened the club with debt).
It’s all about MG‘s forward looking view - and the very real uncertainty and risk that exists in terms of the impact of Covid and future TV deals.

There’s a very good chance that we are left with these options to avoid potentially large losses in the next 3 years or so :

1) new investment / take over.
2) relegation (and associated reduction in wages / sale of player assets etc)
3) reduce our wage bill / overall costs to a level that MG and the board think is necessary to avoid large losses.

I’m pretty sure MG doesn’t want no2 but is aware that may well be a consequence of option 3. Whilst it seems like we are actively trying to make option 1 happen MG cannot just rely on that happening and not do anything in relation to option 3....he has to do both.

Would be my summary of what I think is happening !!
The problem is that if option 3 is taken and we get relegated then option 2 is a reality. Any plan has to absolutely be about retaining premier league status and if there is some risk associated with that plan, it’s a risk we would have to take. That risk is probably more manageable long term than taking option 3 and achieving option 2.

As it happens, it appears highly likely they are going for option 1.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by TVC15 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:03 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:47 am
The problem is that if option 3 is taken and we get relegated then option 2 is a reality. Any plan has to absolutely be about retaining premier league status and if there is some risk associated with that plan, it’s a risk we would have to take. That risk is probably more manageable long term than taking option 3 and achieving option 2.

As it happens, it appears highly likely they are going for option 1.
I said option 3 might lead to option 2.
In terms of taking a risk to try and secure our status I’m sure there is already an element of risk to what we are doing.
But I’m not sure how MG and the rest of the board can do what some people seem to be calling for and spend what they haven’t got. None of them want to put any money into the club to subsidise any losses.
The point about option 2 is that MG may have worked out that with the reduction in wages from relegation clauses in players contracts and the inevitable exit and sale of our best players then this would mean that financially the club would not be facing losses.
Obviously we are stuffed after that point in terms of trying to get promoted.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Zlatan » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:28 am

Boss Hogg wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:39 am
Newcastle interested.
Given up on Hendrick already...?

;)

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:30 am

Re losses we have made over £600,000m in our time in the Premier league with gate and tv monies
Our spend on salaries / bonuses and other running costs have to be factored in ,but to say we wre unable to pay £15m for Wilson doesn't scan
It's the price and this continually attempting to penny pincing doesn't work anymore
Sean is our best manager ever but this we've no money to spend is an insult to him and us who have poured our hard earned cash into supporting out team through bad and good times.Sean and us deserve better off the board

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:31 am

We’ve really dropped a bollock not getting Eliasson in at a fraction of the cost, Wilson on his last showing is nowhere near a £15m player. Happy for a loan for him but that’s it tbh.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:32 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:30 am
Re losses we have made over £600,000m in our time in the Premier league with gate and tv monies
Our spend on salaries / bonuses and other running costs have to be factored in ,but to say we wre unable to pay £15m for Wilson doesn't scan
It's the price and this continually attempting to penny prince doesn't work anymore
Sean is our best manager ever but this we've no money to spend is an insult to him and us who have poured our hard earned cash into supporting out team through bad and good times.Sean and us deserve better off the board
Well looking at figures I've seen and that Royboy confirmed, we're making just under £5 million profit a season. If the £40 million dry powder is correct, there's also apparently a chance of a rebate to the TV companies due to Covid.

So overall it wouldn't leave us with much, unless we gambled the last pennies we have.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Grumps » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:33 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:30 am
Re losses we have made over £600,000m in our time in the Premier league with gate and tv monies
Our spend on salaries / bonuses and other running costs have to be factored in ,but to say we wre unable to pay £15m for Wilson doesn't scan
It's the price and this continually attempting to penny pincing doesn't work anymore
Sean is our best manager ever but this we've no money to spend is an insult to him and us who have poured our hard earned cash into supporting out team through bad and good times.Sean and us deserve better off the board
We may well be able to afford 15m....perhaps we don't think he's worth that

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by claret2018 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:34 am

If our profit is £5m a season, and we take away match day income, where does that leave us? In a loss making position I presume. That’s why we are watching what we spend. We could easily go bust if we aren’t careful

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by randomclaret2 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:37 am

claret2018 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:34 am
If our profit is £5m a season, and we take away match day income, where does that leave us? In a loss making position I presume. That’s why we are watching what we spend. We could easily go bust if we aren’t careful
How do we function as a Premier League club going forward then ?

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by claret2018 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:38 am

randomclaret2 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:37 am
How do we function as a Premier League club going forward then ?
If we continue without crowds, then we can’t really. Simple as that.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:38 am

randomclaret2 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:37 am
How do we function as a Premier League club going forward then ?
Profit on player sales and aim for youth to come through to sell at a profit. Or - get a takeover who has money to invest.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by MACCA » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:45 am

FactualFrank wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:38 am
Profit on player sales and aim for youth to come through to sell at a profit. Or - get a takeover who has money to invest.

So the guy that saw this as the way forward, andwanted to go down that route is right.

Wonder what else the guy was right about?

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Wokingclaret » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:51 am

TVC15

With all your options except 1 will lead to losing the manager if it’s not the case already with a break down in communication

MG will then have to appoint a new one
Good Luck With that

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:59 am

Everyone just take a step back

We have set up a whole new recruitment department

And the only person we have signed is Dale Stephens, who is an okay cm at this level (but surely 4th choice behind Cork, Westwood and Brownhill)

He was a target four years ago, and we are linked with players who were also a target over previous seasons.

All UK based.

Now at what stage do we think that this incredibly unambitious, expensive and really narrow market that we shop in is the fault of more than just Garlick et al.

SD bears some responsibility here as well, whatever he says in press conferences.

That doesn't change anything about him being the best manager we've ever had, or that he's doing miracles with bugger all, but he's got his way, and it might not be helping us in refreshing the squad.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by NewClaret » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:00 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:31 am
We’ve really dropped a bollock not getting Eliasson in at a fraction of the cost, Wilson on his last showing is nowhere near a £15m player. Happy for a loan for him but that’s it tbh.
Agree, when money is so tight I can’t understand why we weren’t in for a proven Championship winger at that money. Type of player you’d expect to hold on to if we went down. Would’ve provided cover for JBG with the potential to develop. Right age. Frustrating.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by DCWat » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:01 pm

We should always have player sales as our model. I’ve been shot down on here saying that, in the past.

Hopefully the scouting and academy improvements will deliver that although so far, it doesn’t appear to be the case (obviously it’s a longer process with the academy).

We just don’t seem to be identifying, or willing to go for, the players ahead of their bigger moves (the point before their value is above our budget). The likes of McGinn, Zayech, Barnes, Maddison (and plenty of other examples). How much could we have banked had we gone for one or two of these, early?

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by NewClaret » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:01 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:28 am
Given up on Hendrick already...?

;)
:lol: :lol:

There will be lots of teams “interested” this weekend I’m sure. Personally would not want us to increase our bid. Think it was very fair.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Jakubs Tash » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:06 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:59 am
Everyone just take a step back

We have set up a whole new recruitment department

And the only person we have signed is Dale Stephens, who is an okay cm at this level (but surely 4th choice behind Cork, Westwood and Brownhill)

He was a target four years ago, and we are linked with players who were also a target over previous seasons.

All UK based.

Now at what stage do we think that this incredibly unambitious, expensive and really narrow market that we shop in is the fault of more than just Garlick et al.

SD bears some responsibility here as well, whatever he says in press conferences.

That doesn't change anything about him being the best manager we've ever had, or that he's doing miracles with bugger all, but he's got his way, and it might not be helping us in refreshing the squad.
Of course he (SD) bears some responsibility but it seems to me like there has been a lot of players identified but we just don't have the finance to get the deals done. Hence, SD always talking about prices, even for League One players being silly, his reference to stretching the finances and also that he doesnt sign the cheques.

It's all well and good then saying well why aren't we targeting people within our price range but maybe those players aren't really good enough to push our group on.

Pretty clear and obvious to anybody now that MG has taken the club as far as he can (and he's been magnificent by the way) and a takeover is the only way to keep moving the club forward.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:30 pm

DCWat wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:01 pm
We should always have player sales as our model. I’ve been shot down on here saying that, in the past.

Hopefully the scouting and academy improvements will deliver that although so far, it doesn’t appear to be the case (obviously it’s a longer process with the academy).

We just don’t seem to be identifying, or willing to go for, the players ahead of their bigger moves (the point before their value is above our budget). The likes of McGinn, Zayech, Barnes, Maddison (and plenty of other examples). How much could we have banked had we gone for one or two of these, early?
I don't think it would be possible in most cases or extremely hard, lots of the academy promising young starlets are constantly contracted whilst at they respective clubs & loaned out & in most cases upon impact the values soars almost instantly, it's not through want of trying, a few escape through the net as the talent isn't spotted at the time & they fail to secure a contract extension & then released, the people involved know almost straightaway if so & so will make it & there will have a fair probable premonition based on a track record of getting it right.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by TVC15 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:39 pm

Wokingclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:51 am
TVC15

With all your options except 1 will lead to losing the manager if it’s not the case already with a break down in communication

MG will then have to appoint a new one
Good Luck With that
They aren’t my options - they are the options and dilemma that I am making an educated guess MG is facing.

You seem to be very good at pointing the finger at MG and the rest of the board but unless I’ve missed something you have not made a suggestion as to what else the club can do given our current financial situation and nobody on the board seemingly prepared to subsidise the club as is clearly happening at almost every other club in our league.

Since you have been a shareholder for so many years you must have some suggestions ?

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:41 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:30 am
Re losses we have made over £600,000m in our time in the Premier league with gate and tv monies
Our spend on salaries / bonuses and other running costs have to be factored in ,but to say we wre unable to pay £15m for Wilson doesn't scan
It's the price and this continually attempting to penny pincing doesn't work anymore
Sean is our best manager ever but this we've no money to spend is an insult to him and us who have poured our hard earned cash into supporting out team through bad and good times.Sean and us deserve better off the board
you are going to have to lay it out in a far more reasoned, evidence based, forward looking, numbers featuring format than holding your finger in the air way than this if you want to sound like you have a legitimate case on which to base your thoughts - there have been plenty of such posts demonstrating the opposite of your view in the last few months and zero supporting it.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Bigvince » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:42 pm

I haven’t seen much of Eliasson, but he must be a world beater, judging by some posters obsession with him!

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:47 pm

Bigvince wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:42 pm
I haven’t seen much of Eliasson, but he must be a world beater, judging by some posters obsession with him!
Go on YouTube look at his crosses, Wood and Barnes would have had a field day with those, at the money quoted we would have filled our most problematic position too and he fit our budget (seemingly non existent).

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Dyched » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:48 pm

:evil: Image
Woodleyclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:30 am
Re losses we have made over £600,000m in our time in the Premier league with gate and tv monies
Our spend on salaries / bonuses and other running costs have to be factored in ,but to say we wre unable to pay £15m for Wilson doesn't scan
It's the price and this continually attempting to penny pincing doesn't work anymore
Sean is our best manager ever but this we've no money to spend is an insult to him and us who have poured our hard earned cash into supporting out team through bad and good times.Sean and us deserve better off the board
There’s a difference between can afford to pay £15m and not willing to pay £15m for Wilson. I’m pretty sure it the latter. He hasn’t done anything to warrant that price. I hope we laughed when Liverpool even suggested such a stupid figure. Or at least a little “Nah sorry you don’t understand, we’re after Wilson. Not Wilson and Salah”.
Last edited by Dyched on Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Jakubs Tash » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:48 pm

Bigvince wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:42 pm
I haven’t seen much of Eliasson, but he must be a world beater, judging by some posters obsession with him!
I beleive his heat map was very impressive.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Bigvince » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:50 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:47 pm
Go on YouTube look at his crosses, Wood and Barnes would have had a field day with those, at the money quoted we would have filled our most problematic position too and he fit our budget (seemingly non existent).
There must be some reason why no other prem club didn’t take a punt on him either at the money being quoted.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by MACCA » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:56 pm

Bigvince wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:50 pm
There must be some reason why no other prem club didn’t take a punt on him either at the money being quoted.
Not many other established premier league sides shop in the bargain basket.
Of those that might, there wont be many again that play 2 up top and play direct football shall we say.

We shop in a very unique market it seems

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by kentonclaret » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:57 pm

"Go on You Tube look at his crosses"


Eliasson or maybe better known as "On my head Son" :lol:

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Wokingclaret » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:58 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:39 pm
They aren’t my options - they are the options and dilemma that I am making an educated guess MG is facing.

You seem to be very good at pointing the finger at MG and the rest of the board but unless I’ve missed something you have not made a suggestion as to what else the club can do given our current financial situation and nobody on the board seemingly prepared to subsidise the club as is clearly happening at almost every other club in our league.

Since you have been a shareholder for so many years you must have some suggestions ?
We have the best manager in charge of the Club during my time, who has demonstrated for 4 seasons that he can keep a club of our size in this division. He has to be backed which, he has not been so far in this window. Anything else is a major risk and may not end well.

I look forward to what MG has to say at the end of the domestic window.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Leisure » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:00 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:48 pm
I beleive his heat map was very impressive.
Where's the smiley? ;)

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Mala591 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:01 pm

According to Long Time Lurker's heat maps Wilson's positioning and movement was very similar to JBG's. If we don't sign him this window we should (imo) keep a close eye on him.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:01 pm

Wokingclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:58 pm
I look forward to what MG has to say at the end of the domestic window.
I expect that to be silence. But I'm still in hope we can sign 1-2 players from the Championship. I feel the ship has sailed regarding anything in the Prem.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by kentonclaret » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:06 pm

The ship may well have sailed but let's hope we are not all left with that sinking feeling.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:12 pm

kentonclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:06 pm
The ship may well have sailed but let's hope we are not all left with that sinking feeling.
I sea what you did there.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by TVC15 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:18 pm

Wokingclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:58 pm
We have the best manager in charge of the Club during my time, who has demonstrated for 4 seasons that he can keep a club of our size in this division. He has to be backed which, he has not been so far in this window. Anything else is a major risk and may not end well.

I look forward to what MG has to say at the end of the domestic window.
So your suggestion is “he has to be backed” ?
Well done 👍
With what ?
Are you prepared to put money in ?

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by MACCA » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:20 pm

kentonclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:06 pm
The ship may well have sailed but let's hope we are not all left with that sinking feeling.
As long as we keep the captain, the ship could be a raft.
The mans a miracle worker, sadly his miracles are now being taken for granted

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by ewanrob » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:30 pm

Is anyone aware of a player we have signed in Sean's time with us, that he didnt want ...board driven?

I'm trying to get my head around what's going on within our club.

Is Sean still identifying players and putting it to MG, does he work in unison with the recruitment team and take it to MG, or is it totally out of his hands now and just driven by the recruitment team.

If it's the latter, what it is their brief....given Sean's primary requirement seems to be they have to have the right personality...a proper bloke.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:44 pm

ewanrob wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:30 pm
Is anyone aware of a player we have signed in Sean's time with us, that he didnt want ...board driven?
Some fans think Vydra was signed against his wishes, but I'd be surprised if that's true.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Wokingclaret » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:37 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:44 pm
Some fans think Vydra was signed against his wishes, but I'd be surprised if that's true.
Think Chris Long by Frank McPartland

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by buzzclarets79 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:43 pm

Mala591 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:01 pm
According to Long Time Lurker's heat maps Wilson's positioning and movement was very similar to JBG's. If we don't sign him this window we should (imo) keep a close eye on him.
What the Physio's chair? :D :D :D

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Burnley Ace » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:47 pm

MACCA wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:20 pm
As long as we keep the captain, the ship could be a raft.
The mans a miracle worker, sadly his miracles are now being taken for granted
Perhaps he’s run out of miracles and it’s time for some fresh ideas and motivation. 8 years is a long time.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by MACCA » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:56 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:47 pm
Perhaps he’s run out of miracles and it’s time for some fresh ideas and motivation. 8 years is a long time.
Let's get Mike out the door first, and then see what the magic man can do when he doesnt have 1 hand tied behind his back and a blindfold on.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by elwaclaret » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:58 pm

MACCA wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:56 pm
Let's get Mike out the door first, and then see what the magic man can do when he doesnt have 1 hand tied behind his back and a blindfold on.
Mike out the door? Do you have the money to achieve your aim?
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Wokingclaret
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Wokingclaret » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:00 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:18 pm
So your suggestion is “he has to be backed” ?
Well done 👍
With what ?
Are you prepared to put money in ?
Well done, you seem to enjoy your own brain power.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by jrgbfc » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:01 pm

ewanrob wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:30 pm
Is anyone aware of a player we have signed in Sean's time with us, that he didnt want ...board driven?

I'm trying to get my head around what's going on within our club.

Is Sean still identifying players and putting it to MG, does he work in unison with the recruitment team and take it to MG, or is it totally out of his hands now and just driven by the recruitment team.

If it's the latter, what it is their brief....given Sean's primary requirement seems to be they have to have the right personality...a proper bloke.
Maybe Vydra? Given the way he seemed to be frozen out for a long time.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by TVC15 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:03 pm

Wokingclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:00 pm
Well done, you seem to enjoy your own brain power.
And you seem to enjoy talking sh-ite

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Wokingclaret » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:04 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:03 pm
And you seem to enjoy talking sh-ite
That's great, its my sh-ite and I'm entitled to it.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by arise_sir_charge » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:15 pm

claret2018 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:34 am
If our profit is £5m a season, and we take away match day income, where does that leave us? In a loss making position I presume. That’s why we are watching what we spend. We could easily go bust if we aren’t careful
Jesus wept, I have seriously read it all now.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by MACCA » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:22 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:58 pm
Mike out the door? Do you have the money to achieve your aim?
Yep
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