The Parting of the Ways
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The Parting of the Ways
No, I’m not reviewing the classic Doctor Who episode of Christopher Eccleston’s tenure as the Doctor - it’s (yet another) thread asking whether the unthinkable is actually in everyone’s best interests, at this point.
I’ll preface by saying that I adore Sean Dyche - I’d name a stand after him in the future such is the job he has done here. He will be regarded as our greatest ever manager after Harry Potts, and revered for the rest of our time as a football club.
Getting that out of the way, we’ve reached a massive crossroads here. Sean Dyche at this point strikes me as someone that doesn’t want to be at Burnley Football Club, and someone who is more concerned with how the disaster he sees unfolding before him is going to impact upon his brand imagine and future managerial roles. It feels like the love that I enthused above, and that I am sure most of us share towards him, is entirely one way. An attitude, if you will, of being lucky to have him (which we have been, in all honesty).
The ongoing war that is very clearly ongoing at Turf Moor shows no sign of abating, unless the takeover happens imminently (and even then, we do not know Dyche’s opinion of ALK or what the proposed financial backing is from them) I fear, gravely, for this season.
Do I say that because of our lack of transfers? Partly, of course we needed reinforcements. This was exacerbated by our injury situation and probably wouldn’t have felt quite so critical (the only player that left of any ‘real’ value to us was Hendrick) had we had the likes of Mee, Tarky, Cork etc fit from the outset. My real concern however, isn’t the squad. I believe our squad IS more than good enough for a comfortable 12th-15th placed finish even with a years ageing and other teams spending money - if it wasn’t for the overall shroud of uncertainty, negativity and pessimism that has ensconced our club this summer.
It’s been ongoing stretching back a long way, of course, but it’s become impossible to ignore since ‘Project Restart’ and even worse through this summers transfer struggles. Dyche’s willingness to be open, too honest, and very belittling of his employers financial choices has dominated conversation on here, social media and the televisioon. I firmly believe it’s a carefully constructed exit strategy/failure explanation to use to preserve his status (understandable, in some ways), but you just have to wonder the impact that has had on our squad of players.
They won’t be oblivious to what has been going on, and for me it has shown on the pitch. We can have a slow start, we can be unlucky, we can (as we have had) a ton of injuries - but - the one thing that has been a constant in Dyche’s tenure has been an inner belief and a battling solidarity for the badge. I didn’t see that at all against Southampton, and I saw it for 12 minutes tonight before the heads dropped again.
Are we coming to a point in time where the unthinkable is actually the sensible? Let me be clear - if it was MY choice, only one of Sean Dyche and Mike Garlick would be leaving. Sadly, it is not. With one looking destined to be here forever (again, said without knowledge of status of takeover), is there any way back to make the club the proud, strong, stable business it has been over the last eight+ years? I am not so sure, and if the answer is no, a massive decision needs to be made for the long term health of the club.
I’ll preface by saying that I adore Sean Dyche - I’d name a stand after him in the future such is the job he has done here. He will be regarded as our greatest ever manager after Harry Potts, and revered for the rest of our time as a football club.
Getting that out of the way, we’ve reached a massive crossroads here. Sean Dyche at this point strikes me as someone that doesn’t want to be at Burnley Football Club, and someone who is more concerned with how the disaster he sees unfolding before him is going to impact upon his brand imagine and future managerial roles. It feels like the love that I enthused above, and that I am sure most of us share towards him, is entirely one way. An attitude, if you will, of being lucky to have him (which we have been, in all honesty).
The ongoing war that is very clearly ongoing at Turf Moor shows no sign of abating, unless the takeover happens imminently (and even then, we do not know Dyche’s opinion of ALK or what the proposed financial backing is from them) I fear, gravely, for this season.
Do I say that because of our lack of transfers? Partly, of course we needed reinforcements. This was exacerbated by our injury situation and probably wouldn’t have felt quite so critical (the only player that left of any ‘real’ value to us was Hendrick) had we had the likes of Mee, Tarky, Cork etc fit from the outset. My real concern however, isn’t the squad. I believe our squad IS more than good enough for a comfortable 12th-15th placed finish even with a years ageing and other teams spending money - if it wasn’t for the overall shroud of uncertainty, negativity and pessimism that has ensconced our club this summer.
It’s been ongoing stretching back a long way, of course, but it’s become impossible to ignore since ‘Project Restart’ and even worse through this summers transfer struggles. Dyche’s willingness to be open, too honest, and very belittling of his employers financial choices has dominated conversation on here, social media and the televisioon. I firmly believe it’s a carefully constructed exit strategy/failure explanation to use to preserve his status (understandable, in some ways), but you just have to wonder the impact that has had on our squad of players.
They won’t be oblivious to what has been going on, and for me it has shown on the pitch. We can have a slow start, we can be unlucky, we can (as we have had) a ton of injuries - but - the one thing that has been a constant in Dyche’s tenure has been an inner belief and a battling solidarity for the badge. I didn’t see that at all against Southampton, and I saw it for 12 minutes tonight before the heads dropped again.
Are we coming to a point in time where the unthinkable is actually the sensible? Let me be clear - if it was MY choice, only one of Sean Dyche and Mike Garlick would be leaving. Sadly, it is not. With one looking destined to be here forever (again, said without knowledge of status of takeover), is there any way back to make the club the proud, strong, stable business it has been over the last eight+ years? I am not so sure, and if the answer is no, a massive decision needs to be made for the long term health of the club.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
I really do wonder if Dyche realises this ship is sinking fast and bails out. As long as the management and the leadership are at loggerheads we arestuffed.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
It’s been the thing our success has been built on, that ‘one club mentality’.burnleymik wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:09 pmI really do wonder if Dyche realises this ship is sinking fast and bails out. As long as the management and the leadership are at loggerheads we arestuffed.
The malaise threatens everything we have achieved.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
I think Dyche has been under enormous pressure. Tony has already said he thinks the only reason he’s still here is because nothing has been available to him.
I totally agree.
I totally agree.
Re: The Parting of the Ways
Dyche should have resigned after the Brighton game when his stock was sky high. It must have been obvious in which direction the club was heading over the summer.
The fact he's stayed on and continued this feud with the chairman is ripping the club in two.
The fact he's stayed on and continued this feud with the chairman is ripping the club in two.
Re: The Parting of the Ways
Whatever happens and post lock down, relegation, new manager, takeover, I will be in the JHU, with an opinion about on and off field matters but supporting every Claret on the pitch. This season will be sad, but in the scheme of things there will still be happy afternoons to be had in the future and sad ones too. UTC
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
Dyche wouldn’t be here if it had got an offer over summer. He didn’t which wasn’t entirely unsurprising as it appears he hasn’t had that many serious suitors during his tenure here. If the rumoured salary he’s on is correct then you’re probably just going to sit aren’t you ?
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
Managers don't resign from premier league jobs. It just doesn't happen.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
What's he expecting serving up shyte like we've seen this season? Real or Barca?Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:16 pmI think Dyche has been under enormous pressure. Tony has already said he thinks the only reason he’s still here is because nothing has been available to him.
I totally agree.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
Was hoping this would be a Christopher Ecclestone era Dr Who thread.
Disappointed.
Disappointed.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
The ship is only ‘sinking’ due to a chairman and board of directors who have now found themselves absolutely out of their depth. Who would you rather keep Dyche or Garlick?
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
This is an open secret on here, so you can assume the players know it too.Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:16 pmI think Dyche has been under enormous pressure. Tony has already said he thinks the only reason he’s still here is because nothing has been available to him.
I totally agree.
The question I put to that, if we all accept it is true - is it going to be a good environment working for a manager who (we are saying) is desperate to leave and will apply for the first job available?
Re: The Parting of the Ways
It says nothing of Garlick if he’s allowed such a situation to develop. Ultimately, he’s in charge and if he’s allowed the situation between him and Dyche to disintegrate to this level, to the point that we could lose the best manager we’ve had for generations, it is him that needs to move on.
There are too many rumours of his need for control, across various areas of the club, that there must be some truth, in and amongst.
It smacks of very poor leadership.
There are too many rumours of his need for control, across various areas of the club, that there must be some truth, in and amongst.
It smacks of very poor leadership.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
Agree with much of that.jedi_master wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:06 pmNo, I’m not reviewing the classic Doctor Who episode of Christopher Eccleston’s tenure as the Doctor - it’s (yet another) thread asking whether the unthinkable is actually in everyone’s best interests, at this point.
I’ll preface by saying that I adore Sean Dyche - I’d name a stand after him in the future such is the job he has done here. He will be regarded as our greatest ever manager after Harry Potts, and revered for the rest of our time as a football club.
Getting that out of the way, we’ve reached a massive crossroads here. Sean Dyche at this point strikes me as someone that doesn’t want to be at Burnley Football Club, and someone who is more concerned with how the disaster he sees unfolding before him is going to impact upon his brand imagine and future managerial roles. It feels like the love that I enthused above, and that I am sure most of us share towards him, is entirely one way. An attitude, if you will, of being lucky to have him (which we have been, in all honesty).
The ongoing war that is very clearly ongoing at Turf Moor shows no sign of abating, unless the takeover happens imminently (and even then, we do not know Dyche’s opinion of ALK or what the proposed financial backing is from them) I fear, gravely, for this season.
Do I say that because of our lack of transfers? Partly, of course we needed reinforcements. This was exacerbated by our injury situation and probably wouldn’t have felt quite so critical (the only player that left of any ‘real’ value to us was Hendrick) had we had the likes of Mee, Tarky, Cork etc fit from the outset. My real concern however, isn’t the squad. I believe our squad IS more than good enough for a comfortable 12th-15th placed finish even with a years ageing and other teams spending money - if it wasn’t for the overall shroud of uncertainty, negativity and pessimism that has ensconced our club this summer.
It’s been ongoing stretching back a long way, of course, but it’s become impossible to ignore since ‘Project Restart’ and even worse through this summers transfer struggles. Dyche’s willingness to be open, too honest, and very belittling of his employers financial choices has dominated conversation on here, social media and the televisioon. I firmly believe it’s a carefully constructed exit strategy/failure explanation to use to preserve his status (understandable, in some ways), but you just have to wonder the impact that has had on our squad of players.
They won’t be oblivious to what has been going on, and for me it has shown on the pitch. We can have a slow start, we can be unlucky, we can (as we have had) a ton of injuries - but - the one thing that has been a constant in Dyche’s tenure has been an inner belief and a battling solidarity for the badge. I didn’t see that at all against Southampton, and I saw it for 12 minutes tonight before the heads dropped again.
Are we coming to a point in time where the unthinkable is actually the sensible? Let me be clear - if it was MY choice, only one of Sean Dyche and Mike Garlick would be leaving. Sadly, it is not. With one looking destined to be here forever (again, said without knowledge of status of takeover), is there any way back to make the club the proud, strong, stable business it has been over the last eight+ years? I am not so sure, and if the answer is no, a massive decision needs to be made for the long term health of the club.
Simply put, if things are as bad between the manager and the chairman as we're led to believe then (without knowing what's happening with this supposed takeover) it's probably better if he went. Be a sad ending to his tenure, after all he's achieved here, but everything over the last 8 years has been built on everyone at the club pulling together in the same direction. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
Read the last paragraph for my answer to that!Steve-Harpers-perm wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:20 pmThe ship is only ‘sinking’ due to a chairman and board of directors who have now found themselves absolutely out of their depth. Who would you rather keep Dyche or Garlick?
Re: The Parting of the Ways
Did you compose that post before the game just in case ?jedi_master wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:06 pmNo, I’m not reviewing the classic Doctor Who episode of Christopher Eccleston’s tenure as the Doctor - it’s (yet another) thread asking whether the unthinkable is actually in everyone’s best interests, at this point.
I’ll preface by saying that I adore Sean Dyche - I’d name a stand after him in the future such is the job he has done here. He will be regarded as our greatest ever manager after Harry Potts, and revered for the rest of our time as a football club.
Getting that out of the way, we’ve reached a massive crossroads here. Sean Dyche at this point strikes me as someone that doesn’t want to be at Burnley Football Club, and someone who is more concerned with how the disaster he sees unfolding before him is going to impact upon his brand imagine and future managerial roles. It feels like the love that I enthused above, and that I am sure most of us share towards him, is entirely one way. An attitude, if you will, of being lucky to have him (which we have been, in all honesty).
The ongoing war that is very clearly ongoing at Turf Moor shows no sign of abating, unless the takeover happens imminently (and even then, we do not know Dyche’s opinion of ALK or what the proposed financial backing is from them) I fear, gravely, for this season.
Do I say that because of our lack of transfers? Partly, of course we needed reinforcements. This was exacerbated by our injury situation and probably wouldn’t have felt quite so critical (the only player that left of any ‘real’ value to us was Hendrick) had we had the likes of Mee, Tarky, Cork etc fit from the outset. My real concern however, isn’t the squad. I believe our squad IS more than good enough for a comfortable 12th-15th placed finish even with a years ageing and other teams spending money - if it wasn’t for the overall shroud of uncertainty, negativity and pessimism that has ensconced our club this summer.
It’s been ongoing stretching back a long way, of course, but it’s become impossible to ignore since ‘Project Restart’ and even worse through this summers transfer struggles. Dyche’s willingness to be open, too honest, and very belittling of his employers financial choices has dominated conversation on here, social media and the televisioon. I firmly believe it’s a carefully constructed exit strategy/failure explanation to use to preserve his status (understandable, in some ways), but you just have to wonder the impact that has had on our squad of players.
They won’t be oblivious to what has been going on, and for me it has shown on the pitch. We can have a slow start, we can be unlucky, we can (as we have had) a ton of injuries - but - the one thing that has been a constant in Dyche’s tenure has been an inner belief and a battling solidarity for the badge. I didn’t see that at all against Southampton, and I saw it for 12 minutes tonight before the heads dropped again.
Are we coming to a point in time where the unthinkable is actually the sensible? Let me be clear - if it was MY choice, only one of Sean Dyche and Mike Garlick would be leaving. Sadly, it is not. With one looking destined to be here forever (again, said without knowledge of status of takeover), is there any way back to make the club the proud, strong, stable business it has been over the last eight+ years? I am not so sure, and if the answer is no, a massive decision needs to be made for the long term health of the club.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
He could walk into a job based on his history. Someone (sorry can’t remember who) mentioned that his entire verbal construct has been a long term exit strategy.boatshed bill wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:19 pmWhat's he expecting serving up shyte like we've seen this season? Real or Barca?
Could be right!
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
No they don't. They hang on until they are sacked. But he knows he won't be sacked. So he waits for another offer. Only they never come. Heck, we're in a bit of pickle here.dandeclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:19 pmManagers don't resign from premier league jobs. It just doesn't happen.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
We have a chairman who thinks it's ok to start the season with Dunne and Long as centre halves. And who thinks its ok to lose two right sided midfielders without replacing them.
Re: The Parting of the Ways
Of course you did
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
Add to that: it's not a great advert to attract new signings.jedi_master wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:20 pmThis is an open secret on here, so you can assume the players know it too.
The question I put to that, if we all accept it is true - is it going to be a good environment working for a manager who (we are saying) is desperate to leave and will apply for the first job available?
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
I feel quite complimented that you think my musings which took all of three minutes to think and then type were something that required a lot time and effort, cheers for that.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
Sorry I agree with you OP just having my own rant!
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
Maybe both Dyche and Garlic should go. It's not happening on the pitch and the obvious friction between Dyche and Garlic is transferring onto the players. To move any team forward you have to add to your squad. Garlick's silence is golden and he seems to want to distance himself from the supporters. Would be a good time to explain his and the clubs position, after all, he is supposed to be the Chaiman of our club.
At this moment in time I wouldn't shed a tear if they both left.
At this moment in time I wouldn't shed a tear if they both left.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
A manger who guided us to 10th should go? Ok mate.GeorgeBoydsHeadBand wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:26 pmMaybe both Dyche and Garlic should go. It's not happening on the pitch and the obvious friction between Dyche and Garlic is transferring onto the players. To move any team forward you have to add to your squad. Garlick's silence is golden and he seems to want to distance himself from the supporters. Would be a good time to explain his and the clubs position, after all, he is supposed to be the Chaiman of our club.
At this moment in time I wouldn't shed a tear if they both left.
Re: The Parting of the Ways
Night pal,have a relaxing day tomorrow,dont read any newspapers,take the wife out and have a few beers.jedi_master wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:25 pmI feel quite complimented that you think my musings which took all of three minutes to think and then type were something that required a lot time and effort, cheers for that.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
I wonder why the offers never come ? I’ve assumed it’s because of his playing “style”, lack of experience (or interest) in the foreign markets, disregard of youth (couple of exceptions obviously) but generally he’ll sign, or pick, the old lads (example currently; Long getting the nod over Dunne). I’ve often wondered if our general lack (again two or three exceptions) of players “of colour” during his tenure is a factor. It’s sticks out a little I have to say.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
I’d shed many if and when Sean goes.GeorgeBoydsHeadBand wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:26 pmMaybe both Dyche and Garlic should go. It's not happening on the pitch and the obvious friction between Dyche and Garlic is transferring onto the players. To move any team forward you have to add to your squad. Garlick's silence is golden and he seems to want to distance himself from the supporters. Would be a good time to explain his and the clubs position, after all, he is supposed to be the Chaiman of our club.
At this moment in time I wouldn't shed a tear if they both left.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
So if Dyche left and we appointed another manager, would transfer funds be available to him..? I very much doubt it.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
I always liked to think we were a stable ship behind the scenes. That all the circus and whatnot was reserved for the likes of West Ham, etc. Sadly, it’s clear we are a mess off the pitch. The whole operation is falling apart and the only reason SD is still here is because a Prem club hasn’t made their move yet.
Yeah, we’ve come a long way. The ultimate legacy of Dyche is the youth setup and Barnfield. But as it stands (and I have been proven wrong before mind), things are not going to end on anything other than a sour note.
Yeah, we’ve come a long way. The ultimate legacy of Dyche is the youth setup and Barnfield. But as it stands (and I have been proven wrong before mind), things are not going to end on anything other than a sour note.
Re: The Parting of the Ways
No. Garlick should remain silent. Like good chairman do. You only ever hear from chairman when their talking ******** and making fools out of themselves and the club. We look daft enough already with Dyche being cock.GeorgeBoydsHeadBand wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:26 pmMaybe both Dyche and Garlic should go. It's not happening on the pitch and the obvious friction between Dyche and Garlic is transferring onto the players. To move any team forward you have to add to your squad. Garlick's silence is golden and he seems to want to distance himself from the supporters. Would be a good time to explain his and the clubs position, after all, he is supposed to be the Chaiman of our club.
At this moment in time I wouldn't shed a tear if they both left.
Re: The Parting of the Ways
Off field issues destroying the team on field, a common thing in football...
whether it’s the lack of investment (Hull), debt administration (Bolton/Bury), owner making strange decisions (Watford/Leeds), fan v owner war and protests (Charlton/Coventry).
When has owner v manager war ever been good or worked out well? A club not united is only heading in one direction unfortunately
whether it’s the lack of investment (Hull), debt administration (Bolton/Bury), owner making strange decisions (Watford/Leeds), fan v owner war and protests (Charlton/Coventry).
When has owner v manager war ever been good or worked out well? A club not united is only heading in one direction unfortunately
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
The first 20mins second half showed SD still has it to lift them and shake it up. Sadly their second goal flattened us. **** happens.
Re: The Parting of the Ways
F00k all the off field activities and shenanigans the players,manager, coaches etc are on fantastic money the likes of which we could only dream off, just F in well earn it.
If collectively they want to play like league one players then accept league one wages.
If collectively they want to play like league one players then accept league one wages.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
Come on jedi your on the fans board can you not sort it?
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
huw is right ....we would have got at least a point but for Pope's expression of infallibility. In the Moneyball world of modern football - Dyche is as good as Harry Potts if not better.
Re: The Parting of the Ways
His stock is still high and wont be affected too.much by todays result. But he must consider his options now and maybe put feelers out. Notts Forest would be a good move for himksrclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:17 pmDyche should have resigned after the Brighton game when his stock was sky high. It must have been obvious in which direction the club was heading over the summer.
The fact he's stayed on and continued this feud with the chairman is ripping the club in two.
Re: The Parting of the Ways
I don't think Dyche would get another Premier league job. Rightly or wrongly he's been penned as a Tony Pulis Mk 2. When he moves on it may have to be somewhere like Forest or Derby.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
OK I give in.
Why have Forest become the go to club for Dyche all of a sudden?
Re: The Parting of the Ways
Not read any comments re Dyche contract. I would assume that if Garlick wants to fire Dyche it will cost a few million. However if Dyche resigns it will cost the club nowt. Therefore why would Sean resign. He is not that stupid. If he leaves it will be with a very nice pay off. My guess is that Garlick will cash his chips in and disappear. The new owners will then talk to Sean and decide his future. Sadly by then we will be in an even worse state than we are today. I am just hoping that by the time we play West Brom all matters will be resolved. But I doubt it
Last edited by FCBurnley on Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
When did Trump take charge
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
I've actually lost count of the amount of times when asked about the transfer situation Dyche has followed up his comments by saying that it's nothing new and he's had to deal with it. He's not happy, but he sure as **** isn't going to walk away from a job that pays him over 4 million a year !!
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
This is ridiculous. Promising results in the league cup. Beaten eventually by Man City. So, three losses in the league. Difficult playing conditions tonight. Anything could have happened. Players are coming back. We will get results.
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Re: The Parting of the Ways
Maybe, you, and others on here, are acting like Bed wetting Pansies?... Has this crossed your mind?GeorgeBoydsHeadBand wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:26 pmMaybe both Dyche and Garlic should go. It's not happening on the pitch and the obvious friction between Dyche and Garlic is transferring onto the players. To move any team forward you have to add to your squad. Garlick's silence is golden and he seems to want to distance himself from the supporters. Would be a good time to explain his and the clubs position, after all, he is supposed to be the Chaiman of our club.
At this moment in time I wouldn't shed a tear if they both left.
3 games in.......FFS!