Three Tier Lockdown

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Boss Hogg
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Boss Hogg » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:36 pm

Pubs - you book in sit down have a meal and clear off. Non food pubs - shut. The way it should always have been. People working in the latter need some support.
Burnham’s making a mess of things here and it is not helping the health of people in Manchester or the NHS hospitals there.

There should be a national lockdown as the govt are beginning to lose a grip of this though with all the constant changes. They didn’t shut things down quick enough in March and opened too many things up too quickly all at once.
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Billy Balfour
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Billy Balfour » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:43 pm

It's not just Burnham though and if it was, we would be in tier 3 this very evening. It's the opposition from his own north west Tory MPs and the Tory county council leaders.

ClaretDiver
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by ClaretDiver » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:51 pm

Grumps wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:27 pm
Or just the fact they serve meals, plenty of other pubs will benefit in exactly the same way. I've been in a couple of wetherspoons in the past month, and they feel completely safe.
To be honest, I enjoy a pint out of the house and the only pub in my village I will go in is the Wethers because they have got everything spot on, from signing you in, having the app to order and being massive sticklers for the rules. A couple of other pubs in the village have had visits from Plod as they have been known and reported for breaking the rules.....

Wellsy1882
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Wellsy1882 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:52 pm

Boris has **** out
Tier 2 we stand

CombatClaret
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by CombatClaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:02 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:18 pm
There are a load of old people whose life is not worth living without any social interaction. It's all they have. There is a tale in today's Telegraph about a woman with Alzheimer's who can't understand why her husband can't visit, with him sitting outside her window in the rain so they can at least see each other. There is no point preserving this sort of existence.

Imagine life if, for no reason that you could see, you were living in a single room and couldn't go about as you pleased. And then, again for no reason that you could see, your family stopped visiting, everyone around you wore masks and you could never see anyone smile, and you were not given an explanation that you could understand. That is the life of an old person with dementia. What is the point?
Trouble is DSR at this scale utilitarianism must be applied and quality of life cannot be factored in to sums this big.
My nan understands what's going on and is happily sat in her room waiting this thing out. By marginally improving the lady with Alzheimer's quality of life and allowing her visits you put both her and my nan at risk of death.

nil_desperandum
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by nil_desperandum » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:17 pm

SingaporeClarets wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:18 pm
Maybe if they just told the people of Manchester that if they actually do as they're told for a change, the virus won't spread and further restrictions won't be necessary.
You mean like people in the Oldham area have been doing pretty much for the past 7 months. Being in extreme measures, and the vast majority of people adhering to them, hasn't brought rates down at all.
But if you live in Singapore I'm surprised you're not well aware of this.

Top Claret
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Top Claret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:23 pm

You can cry as much has you want but non of the tiers 1.2 & 3, nor a full lockdown will work.

The country can't afford a full lockdown and its citizens will not tolerate it.

We are a democracy and not a police state, the majority of the country want the virus to run its course and carry on with their lives

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by martin_p » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:10 pm

Top Claret wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:23 pm
You can cry as much has you want but non of the tiers 1.2 & 3, nor a full lockdown will work.

The country can't afford a full lockdown and its citizens will not tolerate it.

We are a democracy and not a police state, the majority of the country want the virus to run its course and carry on with their lives
Opinion polls show a majority in favour of a ‘circuit break’.
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Mala591
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Mala591 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:47 pm

Tier 3 lockdown won't stop the spread of the virus if schools and colleges/universities stay open.

A 3 week (time limited) COMPLETE and NATIONWIDE lockdown will be needed every 4-5 months until an effective vaccine is available.

Complicated and difficult to administer, yes, but imo nothing else will work.
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Awayfromburnley
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Awayfromburnley » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:51 pm

There are some home truths that need to be carefully spoken, that in effect will change our world, society and our way of life. It could destroy countries in a similar way to a civil war does. It isn't pretty at all, you cannot sugar coat it.

This disease is dangerous. We don't have a vaccine. The blasé attitude of many is amplifying the issue.

We need to accept for 2 or 3 years pubs (for example) are not an option. We need to accept young people have to shoulder some responsibility and not mix and be care free as some are. They or their contacts will be in contact with vulnerable people.

The economy will tank, but economies recover. Dead people don't.

We are heading for more lockdowns.

Life is having to change, it is rubbish but we have to accept it. Get used to being stuck with who you live with, or get someone to live with you.

We are in for a seriously bumpy ride and I suggest you surround yourself with people you like.

Sorry if that is grim. It's reality. It's really that bad.

I am sure I will get grief for this, but it is a fact.

Though you can help reduce the impact :

1 just wear a bloody mask it reduces your snoz sharing
2 just keep a 2m gap, only weirdos can't do that
3 stop ignoring guidance, you aren't invincible
4 if you do not believe it is real and are one of those deniers, take it from me, personally and professionally, it is absolutely real and my clinical colleagues are near to breaking.

Chin up, get on with what you can. Head down and do the time. We can and will beat this but we all have to play our part.
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dsr
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by dsr » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:00 am

CombatClaret wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:02 pm
Trouble is DSR at this scale utilitarianism must be applied and quality of life cannot be factored in to sums this big.
My nan understands what's going on and is happily sat in her room waiting this thing out. By marginally improving the lady with Alzheimer's quality of life and allowing her visits you put both her and my nan at risk of death.
This may come as a shock to you, Combat. This lady with Alzheimer's, and your nan, are already at risk of death. If coronavirus became extinct tomorrow it won't mean we all live for ever. People over 80 have, on average, 5 years of life left and only a 90% chance of making it to this time next year.

Letting this lady's husband visit wouldn't marginally improve her quality of life - it would infinitely improve it. If quality of life currently is nil, then if you bring some quality in it is an infinite improvement. Someone who can do ten things and has five taken away from them is in a far better position than someone who can do only one thing and that one is taken away. Should we really be condemning people with advanced dementia to a life of utter misery just so tthey can die of something else instead?

Of course quality of life can be factored in. It has to be factored in.

alwaysaclaret
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by alwaysaclaret » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:00 am

In terms of the argument that's raging now on whether Lancashire /gtr Manchester should move to tier 3, there's just one main factor regarding you personally speaking on a clinical basis, unless you are unfortunate enough to contract covid and not survive you will presumably carry on to receive your full pay as an nhs worker simply because as public sector you receive full pay and the nhs is mega safe in terms of work right now, so the point I'm making is that you and your nhs colleagues are in no way under threat financially because obviously due to covid your job is going nowhere, just for one second put the shoe on the other foot and consider 350,000 people in gtr Manchester that would be involved if a tier 3 was imposed, just gtr Manchester, as Andy Burnham has stated if they are on minimum wage, a 35 hour week means their salary is 14000 a year, 2/3rd's equates to £186, the government are stating they can top up on universal credit, this is not true because £186 takes them past the threshold in which they can do that, and in these circumstances the chances are they won't have a job to go back to, however we all know how serious this is, if we had made the right decisions in the first place we wouldn't be here, the government need to start listening to people. Matt Hancock has asked leaders tonight to put party politics aside and accept his tier 3 restrictions, is he really that stupid that he thinks it's about party politics, Andy Burnham is sticking up for people he cares about for God sake.

dsr
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by dsr » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:03 am

Awayfromburnley wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:51 pm
The economy will tank, but economies recover. Dead people don't.
That's true. Isn't it lucky that the NHS runs on fresh air and doesn't depend on having a healthy economy to pay for it.
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martin_p
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by martin_p » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:08 am

dsr wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:03 am
That's true. Isn't it lucky that the NHS runs on fresh air and doesn't depend on having a healthy economy to pay for it.
We haven’t had a healthy economy for over a decade and the NHS hasn’t closed down.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by dsr » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:11 am

martin_p wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:08 am
We haven’t had a healthy economy for over a decade and the NHS hasn’t closed down.
At risk of stating the blindingly obvious, health and lack of health isn't a binary state.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by martin_p » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:17 am

dsr wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:11 am
At risk of stating the blindingly obvious, health and lack of health isn't a binary state.
You stated we need a healthy economy to pay for the NHS, in the short term that’s simply not true. In the last six months the economy has tanked and the NHS has been given more money.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:21 am

I can’t believe the country is still going on about lockdowns - if they have to be done, it has to be local. Otherwise the economic damage will wreck our country for good. Why shut businesses in Cornwall and North Norfolk when the virus is hardly around down there? It makes zero sense.

The way to progress is to stop the super spreaders. Find out who they tend to be, shout it from the rooftops, make it huge fines for recklessness, e.g. still going to work after a positive test but no symptoms. Make test and trace local with these expensive consultants (Serco, BCG etc) all devolved out to the regions. Then, the virus stays at a controllable level.

If the economy tanks, the NHS free at the point of use will be over. It was hanging on pre Covid.

I’m trying my best not to catch this thing (living in a top hotspot), but if I do, and if I don’t make it, protecting the economy would have been more important. I’m gone within 50 years anyway. We have to have a country to leave to our kids and grandkids. I’ll take precautions, work from home, avoid certain shops and cafes, drink in quiet pubs, but what I cannot do is succumb to fear. We’ve got to face it head on, protect our vulnerable, and carry on with our lives.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by martin_p » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:24 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:21 am
I can’t believe the country is still going on about lockdowns - if they have to be done, it has to be local. Otherwise the economic damage will wreck our country for good. Why shut businesses in Cornwall and North Norfolk when the virus is hardly around down there? It makes zero sense.

The way to progress is to stop the super spreaders. Find out who they tend to be, shout it from the rooftops, make it huge fines for recklessness, e.g. still going to work after a positive test but no symptoms. Make test and trace local with these expensive consultants (Serco, BCG etc) all devolved out to the regions. Then, the virus stays at a controllable level.

If the economy tanks, the NHS free at the point of use will be over. It was hanging on pre Covid.

I’m trying my best not to catch this thing (living in a top hotspot), but if I do, and if I don’t make it, protecting the economy would have been more important. I’m gone within 50 years anyway. We have to have a country to leave to our kids and grandkids. I’ll take precautions, work from home, avoid certain shops and cafes, drink in quiet pubs, but what I cannot do is succumb to fear. We’ve got to face it head on, protect our vulnerable, and carry on with our lives.
You know the virus doesn’t care whether you’re scared of it or not. And if you literally face it head on it will win.

dsr
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by dsr » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:36 am

martin_p wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:17 am
You stated we need a healthy economy to pay for the NHS, in the short term that’s simply not true. In the last six months the economy has tanked and the NHS has been given more money.
What a helpful and worthy contribution to the thread, martin. Where would we be without someone like you to pick up on that sort thing.

If I can make the point a different way in terms so simple that even you will understand it:

Rich countries tend to have greater life expectancy than poor countries.

AndrewJB
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:22 am

dsr wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:03 am
That's true. Isn't it lucky that the NHS runs on fresh air and doesn't depend on having a healthy economy to pay for it.
The economy has been woefully mismanaged throughout. There are too many people in and around government and the civil service who have seen this pandemic as an opportunity to make money. How else can we explain the PPE contracts that went out untendered to companies with little capital and less expertise in the field, and came back with unusable equipment?

Our track and trace system - something key to dealing with this pandemic - is useless. Ireland’s system cost less than a million pounds, and works. Ours costs what? £12.3 Billion?

The economy: We all know lots of companies have gone under as a result of not being able to trade. Lots of people have lost their jobs, and more will follow. Yet we’ve spent a huge amount of money trying to keep these businesses and jobs viable. At the same time, we’re told school meals won’t be provided to poor children during the holidays - so food banks it is - the next super spreader.

The companies that have failed, and those yet to fail have done so because their income has been stopped, but their outgoings continue. Rent, debt payments, contracts with suppliers, etc all continue. It’s the same for people not covered by the furlough scheme who were unable to work. Even those on furlough who normally depended on bonuses have been massively put out. What is the economy going to look like once we’ve got beyond this? Lots of people and companies in debt, foreclosures and bankruptcies. Unemployment.

All of this was avoidable. Had the government stopped the clock on the economy - paused all transactions and financial obligations (no rent, mortgage, loan, staff salary, etc payments), combined with food and utility support payments for everyone equally, then we could have come out of this largely unscathed.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by dsr » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:56 am

AndrewJB wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:22 am
All of this was avoidable. Had the government stopped the clock on the economy - paused all transactions and financial obligations (no rent, mortgage, loan, staff salary, etc payments), combined with food and utility support payments for everyone equally, then we could have come out of this largely unscathed.
And it would have saved paying all that overtime to NHS staff if they were working for nothing.

Did you ever explain where the food would be coming from for the people to buy?

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by SingaporeClarets » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:36 am

joey13 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:04 pm
Do you live in Manchester?
Does it make my opinion any less important. The press conference is worth discussing because:

1. Andy Burnham will only agree to measures in Manchester without extra funding if the whole country goes into lockdown. I think expecting 80% furlough when that does happen from the Tories given the last lockdown was supposed to be a one off is wishful thinking. It came across as selfish to those outside of Manchester.

2. His deputy mayor already started giving excuses for people not following the rules and basically condoning it. If this leads to the virus spreading outside of the higher risk areas then I think everybody regardless of where they live should be concerned about this.

3. Andy Burnham tried to make out he supported a national lockdown but after the leader of the city council misquoted the DCMO as saying tier 3 and a national lockdown were not necessary measures followed by Andy Burnham saying Well Said, then you really have to wonder what is their real motives.

The government are not going to give in and if extra measures are required, what use is delaying measures in Manchester. Yes he can say it's not fair etc and wait for a national lockdown when it inevitably happens, particularly when these types of press conferences allow the idea that any type of restriction is just the government controlling the working class and perpetuating the spread of conspiracy theories.

My views have been very clear that you have 2 approaches to go now. I'm not disagreeing with a national lockdown, I'm disagreeing with playing politics and as a leader of a city making dangerous comments.

We can either go for herd immunity and hope people follow guidelines like in Sweden, but it's quite clear with people like Andy Burnham running our major cities that people will be encouraged to not follow guidelines so the impacts of herd immunity will not be comparable to a compliant society like Sweden.

Or full on lock down, shut the borders and quarantine returning citizens in hotel rooms at their own costs, close all schools, non essential work places, enforce mask wearing and do not relax restrictions until the virus is under control across the whole country (not just London) and testing, track and trace capacity far exceeds expectations and can meet all demands. Otherwise the UK will be in and out of lockdown for many years to come with these half baked measures and the economy will never recover. Whereas countries in the far East are now reopening with very few case numbers and should I wish, the first country I can visit as a tourist since March without any quarantine on either side is now Hong Kong, with China,
Japan, S. Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, Australia and New Zealand likely to follow. They've all been through months of very tough restrictions but have now come through the other end.

Some kind of national lockdown is inevitable with the attitudes being displayed and the poor examples being set by our politicians, Andy and Boris are kicking the can down the road and seeing who blinks first. These are not leadership qualities but we already knew that.
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Burnley1989
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Burnley1989 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:14 am

I think DSR makes some great points.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Awayfromburnley » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:23 am

Burnley1989 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:14 am
I think DSR makes some great points.
You mean, "points you like" ?

China are almost back to normal. Simply because people there follow rules religiously and had clear and authoritative leadership.

Never a strong point of the UK.

The fact is to erradicate this disease life will have to change beyond recognition. Yes its bloody grim, but the sooner we face that and act then the sooner things will change.

Whack a flipping mole won't work.

That needs to accepted.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by NewClaret » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:50 am

Awayfromburnley wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:23 am
China are almost back to normal. Simply because people there follow rules religiously and had clear and authoritative leadership.
Not sure we can laud China’s handling of this crisis, given if they’d handled it better from the outset last year we might’ve avoided this situation entirely.

Also don’t trust their government statistics given their human rights record and tendency to cover up their often abhorrent behaviour!
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Awayfromburnley
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Awayfromburnley » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:11 am

NewClaret wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:50 am
Not sure we can laud China’s handling of this crisis, given if they’d handled it better from the outset last year we might’ve avoided this situation entirely.

Also don’t trust their government statistics given their human rights record and tendency to cover up their often abhorrent behaviour!
Can't disagree with that, but the current status quo in China is also quite clear. Undoubtedly they will be some manipulation of the stats, but China is functional and testing millions regularly.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:15 am

dsr wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:56 am
And it would have saved paying all that overtime to NHS staff if they were working for nothing.

Did you ever explain where the food would be coming from for the people to buy?
Where did I suggest people still in work shouldn’t be paid?

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by arise_sir_charge » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:17 am

Yes let’s be like China, let’s be totalitarian, the people who can’t even be arsed to wear a mask on a bus will accept that. Jesus wept.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by NewClaret » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:23 am

Awayfromburnley wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:11 am
Can't disagree with that, but the current status quo in China is also quite clear. Undoubtedly they will be some manipulation of the stats, but China is functional and testing millions regularly.
Yes, I’ve got a friend who lives there. Says it’s back to normal and has been for some time.

I just can’t believe how such a densely packed country and global epicentre can get on top of this so quickly vs Europe where there have previously been very strict lockdowns too.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Awayfromburnley » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:27 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:17 am
Yes let’s be like China, let’s be totalitarian, the people who can’t even be arsed to wear a mask on a bus will accept that. Jesus wept.
And there in lies the problem.

You can't have everyone doing what they want here and expecting the virus to go.

It simply will not happen. It's that simple.

There needs to be firm and fast rules that are implemented firmly.

I reiterate this and yes that is grim but its essential.

If there was a leaking dam you can't have people doing their own thing to fix it. It needs one clear action that affects all.

We are an island and relatively small. We should be miles ahead in terms of containment, we are actually one of the worst in the world.

In fact (I am making an educated guess here) I would go so far as to say we are the worst performing island in the world.

Let that sink in.

We all have people we know who either didn't quarantine when they came back from abroad, or won't wear a mask.

Multiply that by even just 1 million and you've got a bloody great big hole in that dam......
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by NewClaret » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:28 am

AndrewJB wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:22 am
All of this was avoidable. Had the government stopped the clock on the economy - paused all transactions and financial obligations (no rent, mortgage, loan, staff salary, etc payments), combined with food and utility support payments for everyone equally, then we could have come out of this largely unscathed.
Don’t usually agree with you Andrew, but if (as your subsequent post suggests), you are only referring to those that lost their jobs, then I agree it does have some merit and could’ve been a fairer/more effective/cheaper method of supporting the economy.

In fairness though, suspect it may have been more complex to execute quickly than furlough.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by NewClaret » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:39 am

Awayfromburnley wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:27 am

You can't have everyone doing what they want here and expecting the virus to go.
I’ve stuck to the advice to the letter.

Just been reading on the BBC that police have broken up a wedding with 100 people! I mean who in their right mind hosts, organises or attends a wedding with 100 people at the moment?! It beggars belief.

During lockdown it was the big groups of kids socialising that annoyed me the most! What were their parents doing allowing that?

I’d probably go for herd immunity now (too far gone) vs a strict lockdown, but I’d agree if we went the lockdown route we need the army on the streets and a very different approach than we took first time around.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Top Claret » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:42 am

We need to limp through on these tier systems then have a complete lockdown over Xmas period for 3 weeks.

Close the country down completely, put troops on the streets with orders to shoot on site 😂😂

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by 1HappyClaret » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:05 am

The only way to get people to obey the rules is to clamp down on the rule breakers and impose the relevant fines that apply. The issue with this is that we have an MP that knowingly broke the rules after having a positive COVID test and then got on a train to Glasgow and even may have gone to church when she should have been self isolating and what do the Police do. Absolutely nothing say no rules have been broken which I find strange. What does this message send to everyone else "Why should I self isolate when our MP's don't and get away with it"

We also have other high profile people who clearly don't wear masks in shops or on trains. Again this sends out totally the wrong message and no wonder people don't follow the rules.

I am not sure the Government realise how damaging the Cummings affair was to people obey the rules.
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by NewClaret » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:06 am

Top Claret wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:42 am
We need to limp through on these tier systems then have a complete lockdown over Xmas period for 3 weeks.

Close the country down completely, put troops on the streets with orders to shoot on site 😂😂
There's an idea. Might sign up :lol: :lol:

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Grumps » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:15 am

1HappyClaret wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:05 am
The only way to get people to obey the rules is to clamp down on the rule breakers and impose the relevant fines that apply. The issue with this is that we have an MP that knowingly broke the rules after having a positive COVID test and then got on a train to Glasgow and even may have gone to church when she should have been self isolating and what do the Police do. Absolutely nothing say no rules have been broken which I find strange. What does this message send to everyone else "Why should I self isolate when our MP's don't and get away with it"

We also have other high profile people who clearly don't wear masks in shops or on trains. Again this sends out totally the wrong message and no wonder people don't follow the rules.

I am not sure the Government realise how damaging the Cummings affair was to people obey the rules.
As much as I think she should be fired for what she did, at the time it wasn't illegal... By a day.

Anybody who disobeys the rules, just because of what Cummings did, is an absolute idiot.
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:27 am

1HappyClaret wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:05 am
The only way to get people to obey the rules is to clamp down on the rule breakers and impose the relevant fines that apply.
There isn't the level of policing in this country to target Covid rule breakers and hand out enough fines to create the kind of deterrent you seek. They barely had enough resources in normal times.

Policing is done on consent, too many people either don't understand the rules because they are confusing/complex/ever changing or they understand them but have heard the phrase 'common sense' repeated so many times they think they have been given a tacit exemption to do what they personally feel is acceptable even if it breaks current rules.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Top Claret » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:38 am

Wish people would stop going on about Cummings. If you asked over 50% of the country if they have ever heard of him they would say no.

It is what it is, we are a democracy and people are use to doing what they want and when they want.

We are all just going to have to grow some and get on with life.

Ffs just think what the country went through in the 1st world war, then followed by the Spanish flu. This is nothing compared to what those poor souls had to live through

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Dyched » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:47 am

Image
1HappyClaret wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:05 am
The only way to get people to obey the rules is to clamp down on the rule breakers and impose the relevant fines that apply. The issue with this is that we have an MP that knowingly broke the rules after having a positive COVID test and then got on a train to Glasgow and even may have gone to church when she should have been self isolating and what do the Police do. Absolutely nothing say no rules have been broken which I find strange. What does this message send to everyone else "Why should I self isolate when our MP's don't and get away with it"

We also have other high profile people who clearly don't wear masks in shops or on trains. Again this sends out totally the wrong message and no wonder people don't follow the rules.

I am not sure the Government realise how damaging the Cummings affair was to people obey the rules.
If people are breaking rules because of Cummings then they’re bigger bellends than he is. Really, that kindergarten behaviour. “But miss he did it, so I did”.
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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by wilks_bfc » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:40 am

Lancashire now tier 3

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Grumps » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:42 am

wilks_bfc wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:40 am
Lancashire now tier 3
Not as severe as Liverpool though

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Awayfromburnley » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:07 am

Grumps wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:42 am
Not as severe as Liverpool though
Is that actually the case? I thought the idea was if you were in a tier the rules were all the same?

Please tell me there isn't a 'less severe' tier 3?

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Burnley1989 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:13 am

Gyms still open, common sense there.

The crazy one for me is I live literally on the Lancashire/Yorkshire border and have a local on each side within walking distance.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by SingaporeClarets » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:15 am

One ICU doctor in Manchester told Rashid (Sky News): "Why don't these politicians get it? 24 hours on and we're still in the same position. Hospitals are filling up. Can't they just accept the deal and sort the money out later? People are dying. These local leaders need to shut up and shut down, now!"

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by martin_p » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:15 am

Burnley1989 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:13 am
Gyms still open, common sense there.

The crazy one for me is I live literally on the Lancashire/Yorkshire border and have a local on each side within walking distance.
The guidance is that you shouldn’t enter Yorkshire then (although that’s always been a good rule to follow).

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by RMutt » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:16 am

Awayfromburnley wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:07 am
Is that actually the case? I thought the idea was if you were in a tier the rules were all the same?

Please tell me there isn't a 'less severe' tier 3?
Gyms and leisure centres can stay open. It sounds like the different areas are negotiating different deals with the government. Possibly the Tory county council have been given a slightly more lenient deal.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by Burnley1989 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:18 am

martin_p wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:15 am
The guidance is that you shouldn’t enter Yorkshire then (although that’s always been a good rule to follow).
Yeah, it’s a funny one, I’ll be walking the dog and have to turn back and the end of my lane :lol:

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by martin_p » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:18 am

RMutt wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:16 am
Gyms and leisure centres can stay open. It sounds like the different areas are negotiating different deals with the government. Possibly the Tory county council have been given a slightly more lenient deal.
And then they wonder why people get upset and don’t follow the rules.

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by thedoge » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:24 am

Looks like we're not all in it together .

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Re: Three Tier Lockdown

Post by fidelcastro » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:28 am

These measures won't make any difference. Selfish people will continue to do whatever they like. I see it every day.

Still there are folk who actually doubt the virus exists.

:shock:

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